Working Inside the System

[JPSartre12]

Comrades,

I think I'm preaching to the choir when I say that I'd like some pretty dramatic and fundamental reforms to take place with the economy. This whole capitalism thing really isn't working out :lol:

We're not going to be able to get to socialism / communism right away, so let's talk about there here-and-now things that we can do in the immediate future. The Communist Party here in the US occasionally throws some support to the liberal wing of the Democratic Party and work with it ....

http://keywiki.org/index.php/Communist_Party_USA#Communist_Party_infiltration_o f_the_Democratic_Party

.... and the Democratic Socialists of America, the Green Party, and the Socialist Party USA are known to run some of their members and supporters as Democrats, but the SPUSA is pretty belligerent nowadays about that and doesn't really do it anymore. They told me that nowadays the SPUSA advocates a "complete breakaway" from the Democrats.

http://keywiki.org/index.php/Democratic_Socialists_of_America#Using_the_Democra tic_Party

If we're going to fight for some immediate reforms and changes for the sake of the working class, do you think its better to do it inside the system (running as an Independent, Democrat, a liberal, a progressive, or what have you) or outside of it (like the SPUSA or other left-wing third parties and organizations)?

Thoughts? :)

[Eagle_Syr]

Definitely not with the Democratic Party, they couldn't be more bourgeois.

I wouldn't mind co-operating with SP USA and other Socialist organizations

[Halleluhwah]

Just wondering, how is SPUSA "outside of the system?" If you run for president as a democrat, you are inside the system, but if you run with the SPUSA, you are outside of it? And does the Green Party even claim to be socialist?

[Ostrinski]

All this talk of working "outside the system" is just self-righteous sloganeering, so long as the capitalist system exists, politically organizing at all is by definition working "within the system."

[JPSartre12]

Definitely not with the Democratic Party, they couldn't be more bourgeois.

I wouldn't mind co-operating with SP USA and other Socialist organizations

I agree that the SPUSA would be nice, at least its platform is principaled and is trying to make more legitimate reform. If they had a candidate on the ballot in my state, I'd give them my vote :)

I'll agree that the Dems are very bourgeois - but wouldn't it be better to have a socialist in office (even if there's registered Dem, rather than registered Socialist) than have no socialist in office?

I don't really care what the person's party registration is ... if we can get a legitimate socialist in office, I think that's a good (but singular and very, very small) step in the right direction :rolleyes:

[eric922]

I agree that the SPUSA would be nice, at least its platform is principaled and is trying to make more legitimate reform. If they had a candidate on the ballot in my state, I'd give them my vote :)

I'll agree that the Dems are very bourgeois - but wouldn't it be better to have a socialist in office (even if there's registered Dem, rather than registered Socialist) than have no socialist in office?

I don't really care what the person's party registration is ... if we can get a legitimate socialist in office, I think that's a good (but singular and very, very small) step in the right direction :rolleyes:

I agree with you, but the question is can we get a real socialist in office? I think it's possible, but not within the Democratic Party. They won't allow it. Hell, just look at the recent election in Nebraska, the Democratic Party backed Blanche Lincoln (a blue dog conservative democrat) in the primaries of a union backed candidate. If they won't even let a liberal union backed candidate oppose a Blue Dog, they won't let a real socialist in the party.

[helot]

I think any hopes of achieving any real improvements to the working class through parliamentary democracy is foolish. There is no gain, no concession i can think of that the working class has achieved without its cause being in self-activity and direct conflict with the ruling class. Our strength lies in the fact of being proletariat, it lies in our workplaces and in our communities not in the organised structure of bourgeois rule.

[JPSartre12]

I agree with you, but the question is can we get a real socialist in office? I think it's possible, but not within the Democratic Party. They won't allow it. Hell, just look at the recent election in Nebraska, the Democratic Party backed Blanche Lincoln (a blue dog conservative democrat) in the primaries of a union backed candidate. If they won't even let a liberal union backed candidate oppose a Blue Dog, they won't let a real socialist in the party.


Everyone here on revleft should run for office ;) think of what would happen if we all got elected haha

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Everyone here on revleft should run for office ;) think of what would happen if we all got elected haha

We would all bend to the will of capital, or end up the same way Allende did.

People individually don't change the tide of history, they can only influence individual events. It is only when people come together as groups - in our case as a class - that the system can be overrun and replaced with something more humane and dignifying for the working people of the world.

I think we need to dispel this myth that if a communist runs for the US Senate that they will be able to carry out any sort of 'Socialist' policy. They will merely end up as political cover for capital, as has happened in every incident in history. Without extra-parliamentary struggle, there'll be no Socialism, you can bet your life on it (i'm sure capital would bet your life on it if it made them a quick buck too!).