Isreali police detain woman at 'Western Wall' for wearing prayer shawl 'incorrectly'

[freepalestine]

Isreali police detain woman at Western Wall for wearing prayer shawl 'incorrectly'
Deb Houben was taken aside by police after concluding a prayer service celebrating the beginning of the Hebrew month.
By Aliyana Traison | Jun.21, 2012

http://angryarab.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/this-is-real-israel.html

[cynicles]

*fake shock* You can't post that it makes Israel not look super progressive and modern! *end fake shock*

I find it disturbing how the more intense nationalism gets the more it starts dragging people's behavior down in general.

[TheRedJew]

they didn't arrest her for wearing it wrong, they arrested her for weraing it which is not allowed for orthodox women, and she was doing it in front of other orthodox.
they were defending the public, stop hating jews!

[ВАЛТЕР]

they didn't arrest her for wearing it wrong, they arrested her for weraing it which is not allowed for orthodox women, and she was doing it in front of other orthodox.
they were defending the public, stop hating jews!

So she should be arrested for it? Nobody here hates Jews, people hate the Israeli state and its expansionist, oppressive, and hateful politics.

[TheRedJew]

So she should be arrested for it? Nobody here hates Jews, people hate the Israeli state and their expansionist, oppressive, and hateful politics.
i don't say it was right either, and i don't support the israeli gov but i wouldn't call them expansionist, if they were, don't you think they would have annaxed gaza?

[ВАЛТЕР]

i don't say it was right either, and i don't support the israeli gov but i wouldn't call them expansionist, if they were, don't you think they would have annaxed gaza?

The land grabs mean nothing then? Israel has been forcing Palestinian people out of their homes for decades now. It is pure ethnic cleansing.

[TheRedJew]

The land grabs mean nothing then? Israel has been forcing Palestinian people out of their homes for decades now. It is pure ethnic cleansing.

today it might be the case, but back in 1948 when israel was actually zionist (zionism is also a form of left)israeli gov, tried to convince the refugees to come back but they refused, stating that israel will be destryod and the jews will die.
of course they didn't win and the jews are still alive so now we have a major problem here.
i think that the only solution is an arab+jewish revolution and two socialists republics for each people and Jerusalem as a multi national capital

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

today it might be the case, but back in 1948 when israel was actually zionist (zionism is also a form of left)israeli gov, tried to convince the refugees to come back but they refused, stating that israel will be destryod and the jews will die.
of course they didn't win and the jews are still alive so now we have a major problem here.
i think that the only solution is an arab+jewish revolution and two socialists republics for each people and Jerusalem as a multi national capital

How is zionism a form of left?

[TheRedJew]

How is zionism a form of left?

originally, zionism was an ideaology that wanted to protect jews from antisemitisem by creating a jewish homeland that the jews are being ruled by jews.
it is not right wing because it didn't have any imperialist or racist motivs in it until recently.
hertzel and most of the early zionists were socialists (kibbutz)

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

originally, zionism was an ideaology that wanted to protect jews from antisemitisem by creating a jewish homeland that the jews are being ruled by jews.
it is not right wing because it didn't have any imperialist or racist motivs in it until recently.
hertzel and most of the early zionists were socialists (kibbutz)

So before, kicking out palestinians wasn't racist? But now it is?
:rolleyes:
Zionism is a racist, nationalist ideology and it has been like that for many many many years.

[TheRedJew]

So before, kicking out palestinians wasn't racist? But now it is?
:rolleyes:
Zionism is a racist, nationalist ideology and it has been like that for many many many years.

but when the arabs say they want a country and that they will kick all the jews out into the ocean they are not nationalist and racist

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

but when the arabs say they want a country and that they will kick all the jews out into the ocean they are not nationalist and racist

Did not say that. Instead of addressing what I said, you start saying that I support Arab nationalism.

[TheRedJew]

Did not say that.
so none of them are right!
the only solution is two socialist states one for each people and the capital of both will be jerusalem.
by supporting the nationalist movements you are not helping.
support DFLP and maki instead of hamas and fatah

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

so none of them are right!
the only solution is two socialist states one for each people and the capital of both will be jerusalem.
by supporting the nationalist movements you are not helping.
support DFLP and maki instead of hamas and fatah

How do I support nationalist, you moron.
I never said I support any nationalist.

[TheRedJew]

How do I support nationalist, you moron.
I never said I support any nationalist.

you are missing the point, i apologize if i said that you support nationalism.
the point is that the solution is not creating a palestinian state with hamas\fatah as the ruling party, that would be a disaster for socialism

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

you are missing the point, i apologize if i said that you support nationalism.
the point is that the solution is not creating a palestinian state with hamas\fatah as the ruling party, that would be a disaster for socialism

I agree, but there will be no Palestinian socialist state as long as Israel isn't ruled by socialists.

[TheRedJew]

I agree, but there will be no Palestinian socialist state as long as Israel isn't ruled by socialists.

that is what i think too, so instead of supporting palestine, we should focus in the social protesters in israel, that will make much more sense!

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

that is what i think too, so instead of supporting palestine, we should focus in the social protesters in israel, that will make much more sense!

Here is something, support them both!
I can support more than one thing at the same time.

[hatzel]

they didn't arrest her for wearing it wrong, they arrested her for weraing it which is not allowed for orthodox women, and she was doing it in front of other orthodox.
they were defending the public, stop hating jews!

Oi Rav, haven't you heard the stories about Rashi's tallit-wearing daughters? Or Rabbeinu Tam, who stated categorically that women were permitted (though not obligated) to wear tallit? Why don't you come back to me when your knowledge of Torah exceeds that of these great halachists, then maybe I'll listen to your little psak din here...

[TheRedJew]

Here is something, support them both!
I can support more than one thing at the same time.

as long as you support palestinian marxists i can accept this.

[Comrade Trollface]

The exclusion of women from the most valued ritual and study has been one of the major bulwarks of sexism in the Jewish tradition, a tradition that is otherwise notable for having allowed women to own property, pursue secular education and obtain divorce in the days when Christian women were the legal slaves of their husbands and fathers.

This nonsense represents a negation of everything that is decent and worthwhile about the Jewish tradition. So it would be quite consistent that there should be state enforcement of it in Israel:(

[TheRedJew]

revolution in israel will solve 90% of the problems here

[Comrade Trollface]

revolution in israel will solve 90% of the problems hereDepends on the character and content of the revolution. Workers' seizing the means of production won't in and of itself end the apartheid state in Israel. And it won't nip shit like this in the bud without a whole other struggle either. "Revolution will solve it" thinking is dangerous. Because sexism, racism and religious persecution will not be wiped out by the sheer virtue of the establishment of the workers' commonwealth. Dismissing such things as mere symptoms of capitalism without lives of their own is generally a nasty little white male cop out.

[TheRedJew]

Depends on the character and content of the revolution. Workers' seizing the means of production won't in and of itself end the apartheid state in Israel. And it won't nip shit like this in the bud without a whole other struggle either. "Revolution will solve it" thinking is dangerous. Because sexism, racism and religious persecution will not be wiped out by the sheer virtue of the establishment of the workers' commonwealth. Dismissing such things as mere symptoms of capitalism without lives of their own is generally a nasty little white male cop out. what kind of revolution are talking about??

[Comrade Trollface]

what kind of revolution are talking about??


I am a Marxist-Leninist :rolleyes:

[TheRedJew]

:rolleyes:

you got me!

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

:rolleyes:

Really, can't you go one thread without your anti-Stalin and anti-ML talk, and just stick to the subject?