Boys and Girls....

[Dingo]

Has anyone else noticed now a days the roles of a man and woman have been switching, at least where courting is concerened? I don't know how many of you will either remeber when you were just starting to date or know poeple who are... in my case for example... I find that the normal steriotypes don't always apply. For instince I have a friend she is... 16 I believe.. she has started a relationship with a boy who is 15. I find it odd that she is frustrated that the physical side of their realationship is weak... beacuse any breathing man is allways willing to move that end of the realtionship forward.... or so I thought.
Turns out that he is intimitdated by her... she is not one to be scared of by the way... Now normaly I would say ahh what ever chicken shit, but I realized this happens more often then not.
I noticed that sense the whole womens right movement and lawsuits spring foward, for doing seemingly nothing, sometimes... That guys have learned, atlest young guys, to keep their "urges" in check and they think it is something to hide, to be ashamed of... as a result you find a lot more girls steping up to take the plate, which is fine by me by the way... as matter a fact I like it when that happens.
Girls are becomeing more of the "preditor" type that men used to be... used to be men could do anything they wanted and only have to worry about a slap on the wrist, now with more serious consiquences avalabe and men haveing virtually no way of protecting themselves, men must be careful or risk a law suit or prison time.
Question is, is it the degragtion of the family unit that brings these feelings to young boys minds.... I for instence was raised by my mother, not a bad way to be raised a vary common now a days.... but also harmful in that I have had no male influence in my life, I learned to hide these feelings just as the younger boys have.... where as boys who were raised by fathers... <_< not so much...
Or is it society changing... the idea of being punished for something I not only didn&#39;t do but can&#39;t prove I didn&#39;t do is really scary to me. I can only imagin how scary it would be to other younger men....
let me know what you think....

[Blackberry]

men haveing virtually no way of protecting themselves, men must be careful or risk a law suit or prison time.

Good. No-one should have much way of protecting themselves when they touch a person where they shouldn&#39;t be touching without permission.



Turns out that he is intimitdated by her... she is not one to be scared of by the way...

Did you ever stop to think that it might just be his personality that makes him like this? I see no reason why a law or values would make anyone stop anyone from making a move.

[redstar2000]

Has anyone else noticed now-a-days the roles of a man and woman have been switching, at least where courting is concerned?

Perhaps that&#39;s a deceiving appearance; maybe what&#39;s really happening is that the "roles" are becoming more equal...and, hence, unpredictable.

Either may make "the first move". That doesn&#39;t seem like a "bad thing" to me.


I noticed that since the whole women&#39;s rights movement and lawsuits spring forward, for doing seemingly nothing, sometimes... that guys have learned, at least young guys, to keep their "urges" in check and they think it is something to hide, to be ashamed of...

I don&#39;t think any guys have been sued "for doing nothing". A sexual harassment suit is actually rather difficult to mount; many attorneys think they&#39;re more trouble than they&#39;re worth. Usually, harassment has to be major and sustained to have any hope of winning a suit.

As to young guys "hiding" or being "ashamed" of their sexuality, I am unqualified to speak on that subject. Nevertheless, I don&#39;t think that it inhibits courtship for guys to show a little sensitivity to a woman&#39;s responses before lunging at her.


...men must be careful or risk a law suit or prison time.

I think you are exaggerating wildly. Not even in the worst, most neo-puritanical parts of the U.S. do guys get sued or go to prison for asking a woman out on a date.


Question is, is it the degradation of the family unit that brings these feelings to young boys minds....

No, I don&#39;t think changing family size or composition has much to do with the matter. I think there is a general sense that women are not content to be treated as they once were. As a "mating strategy", male "aggressiveness" just doesn&#39;t "pay off" like it once did.

Try "sweeping a girl off her feet" these days and you have a really good chance of falling on your ass.


I, for instance, was raised by my mother, not a bad way to be raised, very common now-a-days....but also harmful in that I have had no male influence in my life. I learned to hide these feelings just as the younger boys have....whereas boys who were raised by fathers...not so much...

While not as strong as it once was, you&#39;ve had "male influence" all around you...just by virtue of growing up in what is still a very patriarchal society. You "don&#39;t notice it" because it&#39;s in the air that we breathe...you have seen a million or more male and female stereotypes in the bourgeois media without noticing that they are stereotypes.

In addition, I rather doubt that boys learn "courtship strategies" from their fathers. I think boys learn from their peers as well as from the successes and failures of their attempts.


...the idea of being punished for something I not only didn&#39;t do but can&#39;t prove I didn&#39;t do is really scary to me. I can only imagine how scary it would be to other younger men....

I really think your fears are quite unwarranted. If you treat young women in the same way that you want to be treated yourself, you will not be sued or go to prison.

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[DeadMan]

I was once shy of making a move. But then an ex-girlfriend kind of showed me how not to be shy around a girl. Maybe that all he needs. She should make the first move and show that she wants it as much as him. It doesn&#39;t really have anything to do with equal rights. He was just brought up that way. He has the notion that he cannot make a move or risk being labelled as a rapist. He should just relax around her. My two cents.

DeadMan.

[dopediana]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2003, 10:16 AM
Girls are becomeing more of the "preditor" type that men used to be... used to be men could do anything they wanted and only have to worry about a slap on the wrist, now with more serious consiquences avalabe and men haveing virtually no way of protecting themselves, men must be careful or risk a law suit or prison time.

i&#39;ll tell you what i think.

i think you&#39;re full of shit and don&#39;t know about anything going on in the world.

there are plenty of cases where girls complaining of harassment are labelled as sluts, liars, attention whores, and accused of mental dysfunction. and what about all the rapes going on in the military, most of which go unreported because it complicates their life situation and noone believes them anyway?

and what way possible can women harass men, cause them great amounts of physical and emotional strength with as much frequency as men do to women?

[gawkygeek]

i think ur just a little confused, ur right guys are tending to be more timid, but there are still those manly men going where they please when the please. most of the timidness comes from the growing appearance of a sensitive male as the hero in movies and tv, the days of john wayne&#39;s forced kiss of seduction are all but over.
the reality is that ppl aren&#39;t afraid of the law, they are just afraid of being labeled the agressive alpha-male asshole

[Dingo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2003, 06:20 PM

i&#39;ll tell you what i think.

i think you&#39;re full of shit and don&#39;t know about anything going on in the world.

there are plenty of cases where girls complaining of harassment are labelled as sluts, liars, attention whores, and accused of mental dysfunction. and what about all the rapes going on in the military, most of which go unreported because it complicates their life situation and noone believes them anyway?

and what way possible can women harass men, cause them great amounts of physical and emotional strength with as much frequency as men do to women?
First of all I said young boys....didn&#39;t I... maybe you should read what I wrote before telling me I am full of shit... In saying that it is young boys I was implying that the effects of this upbringing are in the comeing gereation, I never said it applyed to all boys, or even most... I did say that it happens more often then it did say in the sixties... The men that are grown up now, and say are in the armed forces for instence... a much smaller amount of them would have had this influence, in their lives and therefor... alpha male assholes... not to mention that to most of the men who do the rapes feel that women don&#39;t belong there...
And I never said that girls herassed guys more just that they are expressing what they want more...
thank you for your input, as unsubstantiated and irreverent to this question as it is...

[hazard]

without stating this too obviously, there is just as much a danger of psychological damage as there is from physical damage in any relationship. now as the gender roles are shifted, and women are treading in new areas, many new problems arise from this as a result of the predefined roles.

while males aren&#39;t given any diss for associating with an older woman, older women often receive some form of stigma for their associating with younger males. and when one takes into account the reversal of the sexes, males also become the victims of this stigma upon the use and abuse factor that in the proper gender perspectives are almost to be expected. that is, the jock mentality when males one night stand women can easily be applied to women in the dominant position, leaving vulnerable males open for similiar disdain and emotional abuse. the result is psyhcological damage on both sides of the gender reversal scheme if conducted inproperly.

of course, there are also many benefits from the gender reversal application that need not be mentioned. women can, and far as I can tell, ARE just as demanding in all areas of personal realtionships, including sex. when demurity was introduced as a component of "proper" female conduct I am unable to deduce, for I have never experienced it. then again, I know squat. this is all based on bullshit observation and adolescent male fear/fantasy.

[Rasta Sapian]

kids will be kids, harmless for the most part.
Do women want us to make the first move?
I would have to say yes, 9 out of 10 chances, a women wants to be touched or kissed first. That is only a 1 in 10 chance of getting slapped, not too bad if you ask me :)

Some women are more aggressive and will make the first move, in most cases it is because the guy is too shy. Am I right or am I wrong?

[{scarface87}]

i think some girls are intimidating but I cant go as far as to say that im intimmidated by every gurl. Just most of them&#33; lol i thought this post was gonna be filled with womens legal rights. I am for womens rights they should be treated as equals. However some girls are sexist in their own way they joke about being more intelligent than boys and it really gets on my nerves. Its an outrage it undermines our ability :unsure:

[el_profe]

Originally posted by AllTomorrowsParties+Dec 14 2003, 06:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (AllTomorrowsParties @ Dec 14 2003, 06:20 PM)
[email protected] 14 2003, 10:16 AM
Girls are becomeing more of the "preditor" type that men used to be... used to be men could do anything they wanted and only have to worry about a slap on the wrist, now with more serious consiquences avalabe and men haveing virtually no way of protecting themselves, men must be careful or risk a law suit or prison time.

i&#39;ll tell you what i think.

i think you&#39;re full of shit and don&#39;t know about anything going on in the world.

there are plenty of cases where girls complaining of harassment are labelled as sluts, liars, attention whores, and accused of mental dysfunction. and what about all the rapes going on in the military, most of which go unreported because it complicates their life situation and noone believes them anyway?

and what way possible can women harass men, cause them great amounts of physical and emotional strength with as much frequency as men do to women? [/b]
Oh, no. We have a feminist that was left by her father or dumped by a boyfriend who now hates men. stop playing this stupid victim game.

Girls complaining of harasment labeled whores? well if all these law suits being filed against athletes that are not rue show that a lot of girls complaing harasment just to get money.

[RedFW]

Oh, no. We have a feminist that was left by her father or dumped by a boyfriend who now hates men. stop playing this stupid victim game.

Actually, we have several feminists here and quite a few men here in support of feminism. We don&#39;t hate men, we just hate men like you.

It seems every woman is, in your view, playing the victim, whether she has been sexually harassed, seeking an abortion or voicing her opinion. But it looks rather as though you are the one playing the victim here, doesn&#39;t it? You are the one shouting man hater at every corner in substitution for any real argument or point.

If it isn&#39;t possible for you to keep your misogyny, sexism and other vitriol out of your posts, why not shut the fuck up? I rather think it becomes you well.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

I feel if I made the first move i would either get laughed at or punched in the face.

[Le Libérer]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2003, 09:07 PM
I feel if I made the first move i would either get laughed at or punched in the face.
I wouldnt punch ya, unless you asked me too ;)

I must be in the minority here, but I feel more comfortable with tradtional roles. I was never happier, being at home with my children as they grew up while my husband worked. I feel my children benefited by having their mother love them and teach them before they became school aged. They were reading and writing by the time they were 4. They were put in front of a chess board about the same time, and my youngest son was beating my ass at chess by the time he was 6. Thats when we found out he was a chess prodigy. I hardly think he would have been encouraged to have a hunger for knowledge and a positive push towards his gift had I been working and him thrown into a day care somewhere.

[Dingo]

Wooo&#33;&#33;&#33; I never wanted feminism (spelling?) to be a factor the only reason I even mentioned it was beacuse that is when somethings that men were used to doing had to be stoped.. was this the start of this trend?

I don&#39;t want this to become a screaming match, I just wanted to know what yall thought about one of my observations... I don&#39;t care about who is the victim, or if they just want money... My question was, has anyone seen this happen where you are, why do you think it was happening if you have, and what are the effects going to be? Or am I just makeing something out of nothing?

[redstar2000]

I must be in the minority here, but I feel more comfortable with traditional roles.

I think the real point of feminism, Debora, is that women should be free to choose the way they want to live their lives...whatever those choices might be.

And there should be no legal, social, or "moral" sanctions imposed on women for the choices they make.

The reason these threads often turn into "screaming matches" is because we still have members of the board (mostly guys who haven&#39;t clearly thought these matters through) who want to make women&#39;s decisions for them and even think they have the "right" to do that.

And the assertion of that so-called "right" is often accompanied by insulting misogynist language; e.g., "if you don&#39;t live like I think women ought to live, then you are a slut, man-hater, ho, ball-buster, etc."

If asked, I will occasionally offer friendly advice to both men and women...but I never forget for a moment that the choice is theirs, period.

As it happens, I actually know a young woman who is a "super-mom" to her little boy...and watching them interact is a genuine pleasure. I have no problem with her choice at all.

But there are still too many posts on this board from guys who have been effectively socialized with a patriarchal outlook...who really believe that certain choices are "unwomanly"--a sign of some sort of "deep character flaw".

That&#39;s no good...and completely opposed to any reasonable conception of communist ideas.


My question was, has anyone seen this happen where you are, why do you think it was happening if you have, and what are the effects going to be? Or am I just making something out of nothing?

No, it&#39;s not nothing, not at all. What you are observing is something that&#39;s going on all over the world...the steady rise of the female half of the human species. It is indeed a revolution in the "relations of reproduction"...comparable in many ways to communism itself.

The outcome, if all goes well, is that someday both women and men will be free and equal.

Something that we are supposed to be in favor of, right?

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The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/)
A site about communist ideas