Russia readies marines for Syria mission: report

[Hexen]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/18/us-syria-crisis-russia-idUSBRE85H0KH20120618


(Reuters) - Russia (http://www.reuters.com/places/russia) is preparing to send marines to Syria in the event that it needs to protect personnel and remove equipment from its naval facility in the Mediterranean port of Tartus, Interfax news agency reported on Monday.
Syria (http://www.reuters.com/places/syria) is Moscow's firmest foothold in the Middle East, buys weapons from Russia worth billions of dollars, and hosts the Russian navy's only permanent warm water port outside the former Soviet Union.
The report cited an unidentified officer in the naval command. The navy and Defense Ministry declined immediate comment.
Russian President Vladimir Putin and U.S. President Barack Obama were due to meet later on Monday for talks on the sidelines of a G20 summit in Mexico.
The crisis in Syria - which has seen the government ignore international censure to push ahead with a bloody crackdown on its opponents - was likely to be on the agenda.
Russia has used its U.N. Security Council veto to dilute Western efforts to condemn Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and secure his exit from power, arguing that pushing the government from power using external pressure is unacceptable.
Only a dialogue between the government and the opposition can resolve the crisis, Moscow says.
Interfax said two large landing ships were preparing to depart for Syria - if necessary - with marines on board.
The ships, crews and marines "are capable, in case of need, to provide security for Russian citizens and remove property from the logistics facility (in Tartus)," Interfax quoted the unnamed officer as saying.
Russia says it uses the facility to service its ships in the region, including those on anti-piracy missions in the Gulf of Aden, where it cooperates with NATO.
Russian warships call at Tartus only occasionally, and an upsurge in naval activity near Syria this year has been seen as a show of support for the government, an ally of Moscow's since the Soviet era.
(Editing by Andrew Osborn)

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

It's not Imperialism when Russia does it. That's because Putin is an awesome anti-Imperialist.

/sarcasm

It's really sad, but not at all surprising, to see the Syrian revolution basically turning into a proxy conflict between NATO/American Imperialism and Russian Imperialism (& a little bit of Iranian too). It could well be the case that Russia merely using that as a pretext to send marines in support of the Assad regime the way the Americans bolstered the Republic of Vietnam for years without publicly intervening on their behalf.

[Eagle_Syr]

I don't think this is bad at all. Russia used to be the USSR and has very strong socialist groups in the government. I think if the Russians help protect Syria from the foreign powers, then that is a good thing.

[revolt]

I don't think this is bad at all. Russia used to be the USSR and has very strong socialist groups in the government. I think if the Russians help protect Syria from the foreign powers, then that is a good thing.Ridiculous.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

That's some pretty badass logic. If I apply it elsewhere we can see that Germany's involvement with ISAF is 50% progressive due to East Germany having existed at one time.

[Omsk]

I don't think this is bad at all. Russia used to be the USSR and has very strong socialist groups in the government. I think if the Russians help protect Syria from the foreign powers, then that is a good thing.


Good comrade, do read books which the men on your avatar picture wrote, especially the works of Lenin, and you will understand what a big mistake you are making.

[ВАЛТЕР]

NATO and the west is squeezing Russia from all sides. They can't afford to lose their naval base in Syria. They are defending their naval base not the Syrians.

[Eagle_Syr]

I think there is a such thing as politics of convenience, and politics of ideals.

Syria cannot stand up to the West on her own. Russia, even with ulterior motives, can help in her defense, even if it is based on a selfish reason.

This defense is absolutely critical. But yes, the Syrian people do not want to be the puppets of Russia any more than of the United States. But it is also true that Russia is much friendlier, and has a broader community of socialists than the United States.

The relationship has future potential.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

I think there is a such thing as politics of convenience, and politics of ideals.

Syria cannot stand up to the West on her own. Russia, even with ulterior motives, can help in her defense, even if it is based on a selfish reason.

This defense is absolutely critical. But yes, the Syrian people do not want to be the puppets of Russia any more than of the United States. But it is also true that Russia is much friendlier, and has a broader community of socialists than the United States.

The relationship has future potential.

Sounds like Liberalism or maybe delusion.

[Eagle_Syr]

Sounds like Liberalism or maybe delusion.

Think what you will, but I have an interest in not having my country invaded by the United States and her imperialist allies.

[Hexen]

Think what you will, but I have an interest in not having my country invaded by the United States and her imperialist allies.

Nor neither Russia....

Russia (or any capitalist nation) is just as imperialist as the US and their no better.

[Eagle_Syr]

Nor neither Russia....

Russia (or any capitalist nation) is just as imperialist as the US and their no better.

Look at it this way.

The body of the Russian people are friendlier to socialism and to Syria than the United States.

We will fall to the United States without Russia. We can't fight both of them, not now.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

propaganda
crazy anyone would believe otherwise

They source this to Interfax, and Interfax is a Russian-based CIS-focused news agency. This didn't come from CNN or something. If this were sourced to Fox News quoting a State Department official, the accusation of "propaganda" would be more credible.


Good comrade, do read books which the men on your avatar picture wrote, especially the works of Lenin, and you will understand what a big mistake you are making.

Yeah really. Omsk and I are as ideologically different as night and day but on this we can both agree - Eagle Syr really needs to read more critical political and economic theory if he thinks that modern Russia is an anti-Imperialist and anti-Capitalist power.

[Eagle_Syr]

I never claimed modern Russia was an anti-capitalist power. I said the population of Russia are friendlier to socialism; and the damage Russia would do is nothing compared to the damage the US can do

[Hexen]

Look at it this way.

The body of the Russian people are friendlier to socialism and to Syria than the United States.

We will fall to the United States without Russia. We can't fight both of them, not now.



I never claimed modern Russia was an anti-capitalist power. I said the population of Russia are friendlier to socialism; and the damage Russia would do is nothing compared to the damage the US can do

Have you ever been to Russia lately? It's quite the opposite where it's becoming a Neo-Nazi haven, also most of the people there who 'support socialism' are USSR nostolgists.

It still doesn't matter, Imperialism is Imperialism and Russia is a capitalist state no different than the US and Russia's imperialism not any better.

Don't apply the "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" fallacy here.

[Eagle_Syr]

Then what? Let Syria fall to the CIA-backed US puppets?

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Then what? Let Syria fall to the CIA-backed US puppets?

At the outset of WWI, it looked as if the choice was between the Emperor-Kings of England and Russia on one side, and the Emperor-Kings of Austria and Germany on the other. Neither choice there was good, and neither is a choice between Assad and the Syrian Muslim Brotherhood. You are raising a false dichotomy. Imagine how history would have turned out if Bolsheviks had limited themselves to either sympathy with the Allies or the Central Powers.

[Misanthrope]

Look at it this way.

The body of the Russian people are friendlier to socialism and to Syria than the United States.

We will fall to the United States without Russia. We can't fight both of them, not now.

What the hell is friendly about imperialist intervention? Russia is not friendly to socialism, what are you basing that off of? Have you heard of Putin? Syria has already fallen to bourgeois dictatorship, the only movement worth supporting is a worker's movement. Stop the Syrian nationalism please, just because you are Syrian does not mean you have any extra authority on the subject.

[Salyut]

NATO and the west is squeezing Russia from all sides. They can't afford to lose their naval base in Syria. They are defending their naval base not the Syrians.

This is exactly the case. These marines won't be joining in on Assad's side.

[L.A.P.]

The body of the Russian people are friendlier to socialism

No.

First of all, if Syria became a Russian puppet state, the dominant ideology of the Russian population wouldn't/couldn't have a direct relationship to the material liberation of the Syrian working class. The Russian state and the bourgeoisie would be in direct control of that, and the dominant ideology of the Russian population has little-to-none influence on the affairs of the Russian bourgeoisie. It's actually vice versa. Read some Marx.

Second of all, the overwhelmingly dominant ideology of Russia is nationalism. Whether you're a liberal, conservative, national bolshevist, "communist", or whatever, it's all just an ideological variation of Russian nationalism. The Communist Party of the Russian Federation (has the second-largest amount of seat in the Federal Assembly of Russia) is made up of nostalgic bigots whining about wanting to go back to the time Russia was a big superpower. In fact, a millionaire once ran as one of their candidates. Russian nationalism is particularly ugly and reactionary.


and to Syria than the United States.

I'm sure if a big migration of Syrians came to Russia, Syrian immigrants would regularly get beat up by Neo-Nazis. There is nothing less brutal about a Russian invasion to a US one. An invasion, in the true materiality of things, is an invasion. Regardless of whatever the ideological bullshit masking it is.


We will fall to the United States without Russia. We can't fight both of them, not now.

Class struggle is not restricted to national borders. We will fall to a Russian victory and an American one. We will fall to an independent Syrian victory and to an independent rebel victory. Don't think playing into the ideological checker games of bourgeois conflicts furthers class struggle.

[wsg1991]

Nor neither Russia....

Russia (or any capitalist nation) is just as imperialist as the US and their no better.

Russia is a weaker Imperialist power that want to gain more allies ,
f it will offers more Fair deals ( much friendlier ) . it's true they are both imperialists , but in global domination conflict weaker imperialists are more ''friendly'' , maybe because they offer less protection ( less quality service = price declines) and want to expand it's influence more rapidly


USA would be more ''friendly'' if it was in Russia position ,



for that reason every country that want to have relatively independent government turns to Russia \ USSR ( who had the same position ) or china for support and not the USA



Look at it this way.

The body of the Russian people are friendlier to socialism and to Syria than the United States.

???

[Tim Cornelis]

Wsg1991 and Eagle_Syr, you are giving me terrible vicarious shame for avowedly defending Russian imperialism, but especially the logic used.

Though I doubt it will come to an actual imperialist intervention on behalf of the Russian government, but that's besides the point.

[TrotskistMarx]

True, you know we get the Russia Today News Network here in Dish Network in channel 280. But i got sort of tired of watching them, unmotivated to keep watching that progressive anti-mainstream news new TV channel being offered by Dish Network. Because i've noticed that what they do is that they critisize the US oligarchies, zionism and US imperialism. Which is good, but they stop there, they don't advocated for governments of the working class and peasants, in each country of this world as a solution for the world economic crisis


.



It's not Imperialism when Russia does it. That's because Putin is an awesome anti-Imperialist.

/sarcasm

It's really sad, but not at all surprising, to see the Syrian revolution basically turning into a proxy conflict between NATO/American Imperialism and Russian Imperialism (& a little bit of Iranian too). It could well be the case that Russia merely using that as a pretext to send marines in support of the Assad regime the way the Americans bolstered the Republic of Vietnam for years without publicly intervening on their behalf.

[Eagle_Syr]

What the hell is friendly about imperialist intervention? Russia is not friendly to socialism, what are you basing that off of? Have you heard of Putin? Syria has already fallen to bourgeois dictatorship, the only movement worth supporting is a worker's movement. Stop the Syrian nationalism please, just because you are Syrian does not mean you have any extra authority on the subject.

Also, if Assad falls there will be wisespread massacring of everybody who isn't a Sunni.

[DasFapital]

Also, if Assad falls there will be wisespread massacring of everybody who isn't a Sunni.
Give up on your wet dream. Russia isn't there to help you. They're are just there to protect their own shit. Its like when the US sends in Marines to protect its embassies or the UN sends in "peace keepers", they just look after what's theirs and ignore whatever horrific stuff goes on outside.

[wsg1991]

Wsg1991 and Eagle_Syr, you are giving me terrible vicarious shame for avowedly defending Russian imperialism, but especially the logic used.

.

perhaps you should reread my comment

i didn't say Russia isn't Imperialist or not looking to protect it's interest . offering better deals doesn't make non imperialist Power in case you don't know . i think this is what you calls ''Straw man argument''


In real world , any pseudo leftist or Leftist regime must turn to one of the Imperialist blocks for support , or they will be isolated . we can play heroes online , not in actual life

[Geiseric]

Wow this is almost as bad as when the SPD was ran by defensists. these supporters of russian imperialism are defending something that in no way has ever or will ever happen, imperialism being a good thing. There is no difference if the MB or Assad is in power, albeit the MB may be harsher towards women and racial minorities since they're more conservative, however if Syrian socialists supported the Muslim Brotherhood and Russia, i'd say they're in for a shock.

[DasFapital]

So it comes down to a choice between Islamists backed by US imperialism or a tin pot dictator backed by Russian imperialism, made even worse by the fact that Russia is now essentially a Eurasian Idaho.

[wsg1991]

Wow this is almost as bad as when the SPD was ran by defensists. these supporters of russian imperialism are defending something that in no way has ever or will ever happen, imperialism being a good thing. There is no difference if the MB or Assad is in power, albeit the MB may be harsher towards women and racial minorities since they're more conservative, however if Syrian socialists supported the Muslim Brotherhood and Russia, i'd say they're in for a shock.

so i now support Russian imperialism :confused:

ok let's just move on

[Ocean Seal]

I think there is a such thing as politics of convenience, and politics of ideals.

Syria cannot stand up to the West on her own. Russia, even with ulterior motives, can help in her defense, even if it is based on a selfish reason.

This defense is absolutely critical. But yes, the Syrian people do not want to be the puppets of Russia any more than of the United States. But it is also true that Russia is much friendlier, and has a broader community of socialists than the United States.

The relationship has future potential.
Russia is not friendlier. They merely have less capacity for damage. If they are allowed to consolidate power they will make the most of it, regardless of their "socialists" in parliament.

[Art Vandelay]

so i now support Russian imperialism :confused:

ok let's just move on

From reading your posts in this thread I would have to say, unfortunately, that you do; regardless of whether or not you realize it. Our jobs as socialists is to not choose our favorite flavor of capital, but to oppose it in all of its manifestations (I cannot believe how often this needs to be repeated on a site called revleft :rolleyes:). That is basically the logic which is used to justify reformism: Oh but the dems will do better than the republicans blah blah blah.

[Omsk]

The best examples which prove how much Russia and the US are similar, are CNN and RT. They are identical. Although the RT is a bit less annoying, but they are doing the same job.

[Dire Helix]

The best examples which prove how much Russia and the US are similar, are CNN and RT. They are identical. Although the RT is a bit less annoying, but they are doing the same job.

Russia Today is aimed at international audiences, so it`s quite a bit different from the propaganda meant for the in-house consumption and isn`t really representative of how mass media operate within Russia. None of the downright black-hundredist crap commonly rotated on Russian TV is present on RT.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

One gets you a Russian military base the other gets you an American military base.

[Hexen]

Russia Today is aimed at international audiences, so it`s quite a bit different from the propaganda meant for the in-house consumption and isn`t really representative of how mass media operate within Russia. None of the downright black-hundredist crap commonly rotated on Russian TV is present on RT.

That still doesn't make them reliable sources however, in the end they're still identicle to CNN but in a more open house space (infact conspiracy theorists thrive on RT).

[Omsk]

Russia Today is aimed at international audiences, so it`s quite a bit different from the propaganda meant for the in-house consumption and isn`t really representative of how mass media operate within Russia. None of the downright black-hundredist crap commonly rotated on Russian TV is present on RT.

A fair point, the problem is i only watched a couple of Russian channels and some of the cable network shows, so i don't know too much about it, but i imagine the regional TV stations are horrible. However the 'amount' of propaganda is roughly the same - RT speaks for the Russian bourgeois and the CNN speaks for their Western counterparts. For an example, BBC covers a lot of things related to foreign politics, much like RT, and there are a lot of international 'fans' of BBC.

[ВАЛТЕР]

Everytime people try to tell me about how they'd rather have Russia than the west ruling over them. (Happens far too often here.) I always tell them there is no difference as you will still have a foreign boot on your neck anyways. I always say that by choosing your oppressor you are basically choosing whether that boot stamped on your neck be "Nike" or "Adidas", in the end its the same shit. A boot on your neck.