Prison Abolition and It's Place in Revolutionary Theory

[Brosa Luxemburg]

I thought this would be a good topic that is generally disregarded by most revolutionary leftists (except for our anarchist comrades).

[Revolution starts with U]

On a practical level, people look at you like you're crazy. But it's a serious issue that needs more discussion.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

On a practical level, people look at you like you're crazy. But it's a serious issue that needs more discussion.

My thoughts exactly. As a person with friends and family who are in/have been in prison it is a question that is quite personal and interesting.

[Deicide]

My dad spent several years in a Soviet prison. We should model the prisons in our future abstract society on the Soviet example. Soviet prisons were great. My mum and dad used to bribe the guards with rubbles, cigarettes and alcohol to let my mum sneak my dad out of prison for a day. That's right, she used to sneak him out of prison in the boot of her car, with the permission of the guards. This was during the 1980s. Awesome, huh?

p.s we shouldn't model prisons on the soviet model, I'm joking about that part.

[jookyle]

I don't think you could get rid of prisions completely. The entire system would obviously need an overhaul, in some countries in a very extreme way. But it would be irresponsible to not have some kind of prison or detention center for people who have compulsions for violant crime like rape, serial killing, etc. And for people who say, aren't committing violant acts out of some psychological compulsion, say a neo-nazi who beats up people because of their skin color or what have you, should be put somewhere for the purposes of rehabilitation and eduction.

[Anarcho-Brocialist]

I'm an Anarchist and don't believe in prison banishment. In fact, it'd be grandiose to assert their should be no prison. Albeit what I envision prison to be is completely opposite to what it is now. It would look more like a top-tier mental hospital. No locked rooms, just therapy. The problem is removing people from the material conditions which cause people to become 'criminals'. If we remove poverty we'd see a huge decline in prisoners. That's just my opinion, and I'm open to criticism.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

Bump

[Book O'Dead]

I thought this would be a good topic that is generally disregarded by most revolutionary leftists (except for our anarchist comrades).

Why, because they have more inside information?

[Psy]

Prisons would probably have to emptied during a revolution, the is no way for a revolutionary state to be able to deal with inheriting the prisoners from capitalism. For example there is no way a revolutionary US workers state could quickly comb through all the prisoners in the US prison system once it controls them them. It would just be too time consuming and you'd have political prisoners in the prisons waiting to join the revolution, thus simply pardoning everyone and starting from scratch is a more practice solution. The revolutionary army destroying all the criminal records created by capitalist society would also be a good idea to show everyone is reborn as free (wo)men under the new workers society.

[Quail]

Removing the material conditions for most crimes (i.e. capitalism) would greatly cut down on the amount of crime committed, but I think there would still be some violent crime. The way I'd suggest dealing with that is to have something that's more like a mental health hospital, that removes people from the rest of society to keep people safe, but that gives them the opportunity to receive rehabilitative therapy and also allows them to live life to the fullest possible without endangering the rest of society.

[Blake's Baby]

OK;

what is the judicial procedure for?

I'd suggest that at present it serves 5 main functions:

1 - punishment (you did something bad to society, society is gonna do something bad to you - which could be prison or execution);
2 - rehabilitation (you did something bad to society, go somewhere to learn how to be better);
3 - protection (you did something bad to society, go somewhere where you can't harm people - this could include being imprisoned or executed);
4 - deterence (you haven't done anything bad, but look at the unfortunate condition of these people who have and think twice);
5 - restitution (you did something bad, society can compel you to make it better or at least work towards that).

Which of these will continue to be a feature of communism?

1 I think should be right out. 'Punishment' is a religious concept. Ditch it.

4 I think is also a pretty shitty concept. People shouldn't be made an example of 'pour encourager les autres'.

But, in principle, restitution, rehabilitation and in extreme cases, protection of the rest of society I think are valid concepts. Kinda implies that 'prisons' as such will be very different places after the revolution, though.

[campesino]

I support exile of the mentally dangerous(people who commit crimes, for thrills or whatever). and permanently removing of driving privileges of those who murder behind the wheel due to an accident.

[Regicollis]

I don't believe we can do completely without some sort of justice system although a socialist economic model would eliminate poverty and thus reduce crime drastically. There will still be sociopaths, addicts, people with poor impulse control and plain idiocy. Furthermore a socialist system would have its own kinds of crime like speculation or corruption.

I don't believe in the traditional "let's lock him up to be really mean to him" way of punishment. I think a more sane way of doing things would be to treat the root causes that leads someone into crime. If someone starts a fight because he can't manage his anger then he should have some kind of anger management therapy, if someone does drunk driving because he can't control his alcohol consumption he should go to rehab.

Instead of just doing the traditional "whodunnit" thing courts should also consult friends, family members, community members etc. in order to find out what the particular individual would need to stop doing crime and get his life in order.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

Bump (thread I made a long time ago)

[Rusty Shackleford]

I support exile of the mentally dangerous(people who commit crimes, for thrills or whatever). and permanently removing of driving privileges of those who murder behind the wheel due to an accident.
please explain.

[eric922]

please explain.

I assume he means DUI. However, revoking a license doesn't work. There are plenty of people with multiple DUIs who drive without licenses. After the first DUI they should be sent to a clinic for help with their alcohol problem. We already do this to an extent, but only after like the 3rd one.