View Full Version : Internment camps, concentration camps and gulags.
Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant'
14th June 2012, 10:59
I remember reading last month about the recipients of the Medal of Freedom (Bob Dylan and 12 others) and coming across this name:
Gordon Hirabayashi, who fought the internment of Japanese-Americans during World War II and died in January
My first thought was, 'Well good on you for awarding him a medal...after he's dead?!'. But then I wanted to read up a bit more on internment camps (I had some vague knowledge of them from historic accounts and a couple of novels). After reading up more I was naturally disgusted by the blatant racism and fash-like attitude displayed by the military, government and news media. This then lead me to looking up examples of internment and concentration camps during the last 150 years, specifically in the mostly white, liberal-ish, West.
Maybe I was just ignorant and naive but I was surprised by how prevelant it was, especially during the WWI and WWII, from Canada to New Zealand, camps were set up for Germans, Japanese and Italians. There use internationally seems to be most prevelant in times of war (civil or otherwise).
Just found it grimly fascinating that these camps were used so much, I imagine most British and American people either aren't aware or don't care about their governments murky pasts and actions. Anyway, I found it interesting and felt like sharing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_concentration_and_internment_camps
Positivist
14th June 2012, 11:26
Yes it is disturbing what occurred under the direction of our government during the world wars. I believe that it is taught in some schools now (it was taught in mine) and being the pro American I was then I mostly just ignored it.
danyboy27
14th June 2012, 15:04
l learned about the canadian camps when i was younger by watching a documentary about it, the school system didnt say nothing about it.
Book O'Dead
14th June 2012, 15:41
Please keep in mind that there is no comparison between the Japanese internment in U.S. during WW2 and the KZ's and killing factories created by the Nazis in Germany.
Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant'
14th June 2012, 15:57
Please keep in mind that there is no comparison between the Japanese internment in U.S. during WW2 and the KZ's and killing factories created by the Nazis in Germany.
Fair point, I was thinking more about the non-lethal internment camps but admittedly I did ref the concentration camps in the thread title.
danyboy27
14th June 2012, 16:27
there was no justification for those camps, i think that the main valid reason to dennounce it.
Crazy Xenophobic retorics lead both the axis and allies to treat civilian population has if they where all potential traitors.
Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant'
14th June 2012, 16:33
there was no justification for those camps, i think that the main valid reason to dennounce it.
Crazy Xenophobic retorics lead both the axis and allies to treat civilian population has if they where all potential traitors.
Agreed. Some of the comments by military officials and even newspaper editorials about the Japanese in the US were sickening ('A viper is a viper, wherever it's egg is hatched')
Book O'Dead
14th June 2012, 16:39
there was no justification for those camps, i think that the main valid reason to dennounce it.
Crazy Xenophobic retorics lead both the axis and allies to treat civilian population has if they where all potential traitors.
The fact that Americans of Chinese descent were not interned during WW2 argues agaisnt the assumption that interment of Nisei and their parents was entirely motivated by racism or xenophobia.
Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant'
14th June 2012, 16:45
The fact that Americans of Chinese descent were not interned during WW2 argues agaisnt the assumption that interment of Nisei and their parents was entirely motivated by racism or xenophobia.
...sure, but the US wasn't at war with China, so there wouldn't be any justification of any kind. There was considerable hositility towards Japanese migrants in California long before the outbreak of war with Japan.
Over 90% of Japanese immigrants to the USA settled in California, where labor and farm competition fed into general anti-Japanese sentiment.[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment#cite_note-leupp-13) In 1905, California's anti-miscegenation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miscegenation) law outlawed marriages between Caucasians and "Mongolians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongoloid_race)", an umbrella term that was used to refer to the Japanese and other ethnicities of East Asian ancestry.[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment#cite_note-leupp-13) In October 1906, the San Francisco Board of Education separated Japanese students from Caucasian students. It ordered 93 Japanese students in the district to attend a segregated school in Chinatown.[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment#cite_note-14) Twenty-five of the students were American citizens. In 1924, the "Oriental Exclusion Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1924_Immigration_Act)" blocked Japanese immigrants from attaining citizenship.
(wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment#Historical_context)
Book O'Dead
14th June 2012, 16:58
...sure, but the US wasn't at war with China, so there wouldn't be any justification of any kind. There was considerable hositility towards Japanese migrants in California long before the outbreak of war with Japan.
Over 90% of Japanese immigrants to the USA settled in California, where labor and farm competition fed into general anti-Japanese sentiment.[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment#cite_note-leupp-13) In 1905, California's anti-miscegenation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miscegenation) law outlawed marriages between Caucasians and "Mongolians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongoloid_race)", an umbrella term that was used to refer to the Japanese and other ethnicities of East Asian ancestry.[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment#cite_note-leupp-13) In October 1906, the San Francisco Board of Education separated Japanese students from Caucasian students. It ordered 93 Japanese students in the district to attend a segregated school in Chinatown.[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment#cite_note-14) Twenty-five of the students were American citizens. In 1924, the "Oriental Exclusion Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1924_Immigration_Act)" blocked Japanese immigrants from attaining citizenship.
(wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment#Historical_context)
Thanks for pointing out those facts, which I think are correct.
However, my point is that the U.S. government's behavior regarding the Japanese in the U.S. was, for the most part, not dictated by racial prejudice. Rather, there were legitimate considerations of national security that persuaded the government to isolate them from areas where they could potentially cause harm. I'm referring, of course, exclusively to the period in WW2 when the U.S. was at war with Japan.
Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant'
14th June 2012, 17:09
Thanks for pointing out those facts, which I think are correct.
However, my point is that the U.S. government's behavior regarding the Japanese in the U.S. was, for the most part, not dictated by racial prejudice. Rather, there were legitimate considerations of national security that persuaded the government to isolate them from areas where they could potentially cause harm. I'm referring, of course, exclusively to the period in WW2 when the U.S. was at war with Japan.
Yeah, I understand the possible justification from the war-time security perspective, or at least I can see why that reason may be given. My problem with it is that there was a lot of very racist and vitriolic language used towards these Japanese-Americans by various sections of society and there was already a great deal of anti-Japanese sentiment already. Also, the idea that just because you're ancestors (parents, grandparents) were born in a certain country does not automatically mean you are going to take that country's side in a war and act against your country of birth. They singled out and criminalised an entire community based on their ethnic background and on an assumption that that ethnicity would make them a threat...which to my mind is racist.
The same kind of thing happened to Italian and German Americans, it was the State's paranoia based on a racial profile and nothing more.
danyboy27
14th June 2012, 17:10
The fact that Americans of Chinese descent were not interned during WW2 argues agaisnt the assumption that interment of Nisei and their parents was entirely motivated by racism or xenophobia.
there is a difference between being racist and xenophobic.
the belief that beccause the german and japanese state where at war, all japanese and german where potential ennemies was the result of an obvious xenophobic thinking.
danyboy27
14th June 2012, 17:16
Thanks for pointing out those facts, which I think are correct.
However, my point is that the U.S. government's behavior regarding the Japanese in the U.S. was, for the most part, not dictated by racial prejudice. Rather, there were legitimate considerations of national security that persuaded the government to isolate them from areas where they could potentially cause harm. I'm referring, of course, exclusively to the period in WW2 when the U.S. was at war with Japan.
based on what? The german, japanese and Italian who supported their countries had left to enlist in the axis armies, the ones who decided to stay in the U.S and canada where in an overwhelming majority fully integrated into american society.
the U.S governement acted like a bunch of paranoid, prejudicied idiots and took this decision on nothing but a gut feeling.
Book O'Dead
14th June 2012, 18:14
I hope I don't seem patronizing when I say that I share the sentiments of outrage expressed by Danny Boy 27 and LeftRDead? over the internment of 'enemy' aliens in the U.S. during WW2. However, I feel that things like that need to be judged according to the particular circumstances and times they took place.
If we look back and compare the level of violence and cruelty against captive civilian populations committed by the various sides in the war we should agree that the US government's was not even close to those of Japan or Germany--Germany's being the epitome of barbarism.
No doubt by today's universal standards of human rights, what the U.S. did to the Nisei and their parents was terrible, but Germany's and Japan actions were criminal even by the standards of their day.
Omsk
14th June 2012, 21:02
we should agree that the US government's was not even close to those of Japan or Germany--Germany's being the epitome of barbarism.
It was not like Nazi Germany, but it was not much better than Japan.
cynicles
15th June 2012, 00:38
l learned about the canadian camps when i was younger by watching a documentary about it, the school system didnt say nothing about it.
Really? I learned about it in class, we spent a pretty decent amount of time talking about it too.
Book O'Dead
15th June 2012, 13:38
I'd like to add this observation:
Before and during the second world war, United States--specifically the U.S. Department of State--enforced racist and xenophobic policies intended to obstruct and limit the entry of certain ethnic foreigners. The policy of exclusion on the basis of ethnic origin and religious affiliation bordered on the wanton and criminal as it related to the European Jews seeking asylum or fleeing the Nazis.
I believe that this was among the most reprehensible things that the U.S. government did during that period. In my mind, the internment of Japanese people, hoiwever unfair and outragous it may have been, was small stuff compared to this lamentable episode involving victims and refugees of European fascism.
There is an informative documentary originally aired in PBS titled "America and The Holocaust" that retells about the events and actors in this sad affair.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/holocaust/
danyboy27
15th June 2012, 17:21
I'd like to add this observation:
Before and during the second world war, United States--specifically the U.S. Department of State--enforced racist and xenophobic policies intended to obstruct and limit the entry of certain ethnic foreigners. The policy of exclusion on the basis of ethnic origin and religious affiliation bordered on the wanton and criminal as it related to the European Jews seeking asylum or fleeing the Nazis.
I believe that this was among the most reprehensible things that the U.S. government did during that period. In my mind, the internment of Japanese people, hoiwever unfair and outragous it may have been, was small stuff compared to this lamentable episode involving victims and refugees of European fascism.
There is an informative documentary originally aired in PBS titled "America and The Holocaust" that retells about the events and actors in this sad affair.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/holocaust/
Well, the mass bombing of cities like berlin, tokyo and dresden that killed hundred of thousand of people where probably the worst if you ask me.
Book O'Dead
15th June 2012, 17:27
Well, the mass bombing of cities like berlin, tokyo and dresden that killed hundred of thousand of people where probably the worst if you ask me.
Hmm. Just to make this clear and with no intention of casting aspersions, I'd like to point out that the Dresden bombing "issue" has been for years a favorite of the self-proclaimed "revisionists" who also spend considerable time denying the Holocaust or setting up moral equivalencies between perpetrators and victims.
Just fair warning before any crucifixion becomes necessary, okay?
danyboy27
15th June 2012, 20:36
Hmm. Just to make this clear and with no intention of casting aspersions, I'd like to point out that the Dresden bombing "issue" has been for years a favorite of the self-proclaimed "revisionists" who also spend considerable time denying the Holocaust or setting up moral equivalencies between perpetrators and victims.
Just fair warning before any crucifixion becomes necessary, okay?
The holocaust did happened and killed millions of peoples.
The dresden bombing did happen and killied hundred of thousand of people.
The Tokyo firebombing did happen and killed hundred of thousand of people.
The Iroshima and nagasaki did happened and killed hundred of thousand of people.
Just beccause i aknowledge the allies war attrocities dosnt mean i am a holocaust denier.
Book O'Dead
15th June 2012, 20:47
The holocaust did happened and killed millions of peoples.
The dresden bombing did happen and killied hundred of thousand of people.
The Tokyo firebombing did happen and killed hundred of thousand of people.
The Iroshima and nagasaki did happened and killed hundred of thousand of people.
Just beccause i aknowledge the allies war attrocities dosnt mean i am a holocaust denier.
You are mistaken regarding the casualties in the Dresden and Tokyo bombings. Aproximately 25,000 -30,000 people perished in Dresden:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II
And about 100,000 are believed to have died as a result of Tokyo's firebombing by the USAF.
The two atom bombs dropped by the U.S. on Japan took many more lives:
According to the US Department of Energy the immediate effects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_nuclear_explosions) of the blast killed approximately 70,000 people in Hiroshima.[76] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki#cite_not e-75) Estimates of total deaths by the end of 1945 from burns, radiation and related disease, the effects of which were aggravated by lack of medical resources, range from 90,000 to 166,000.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki#cite_not e-rerf-deaths-0)[77] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki#cite_not e-USSBS-AE-76) Some estimates state up to 200,000 had died by 1950, due to cancer and other long-term effects.[78] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki#cite_not e-DOE-HIRO-77) Another study states that from 1950 to 2000, 46% of leukemia deaths and 11% of solid cancer deaths among bomb survivors were due to radiation from the bombs, the statistical excess being estimated to 94 leukemia and 848 solid cancers.[79] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki#cite_not e-rerf-cancers-78) At least eleven known prisoners of war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner_of_war) died from the bombing.[80] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki#cite_not e-79)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki#Post-attack_casualties
danyboy27
15th June 2012, 20:54
in the book i read about WWII it say 100 000 died during the dresden bombing, but i guess everybody can make honest mistake.
Still, no U.S general was ever tried for this kind of bullshit.
Book O'Dead
15th June 2012, 20:59
The holocaust did happened and killed millions of peoples.
...
Just beccause i aknowledge the allies war attrocities dosnt mean i am a holocaust denier.
I'm glad to hear your affirmation of the Holocaust as an undeniable historical fact. I hope to hear an affirmation of it as the single most horrific crime against humanity ever perpetrated by a modern state.
I'm a little sensitive about this topic when it is linked to the question of Dresden's bombing because, as I said before, it's been for years one of the props raised by Holocaust deniers to create a false standard of moral equivalence. But don't worry, even respectable people like Kurt Vonnegut fell for the lie that "hundrends of thousands" died as a result of the Dresden bombings.
danyboy27
15th June 2012, 21:25
I'm glad to hear your affirmation of the Holocaust as an undeniable historical fact. I hope to hear an affirmation of it as the single most horrific crime against humanity ever perpetrated by a modern state.
I'm a little sensitive about this topic when it is linked to the question of Dresden's bombing because, as I said before, it's been for years one of the props raised by Holocaust deniers to create a false standard of moral equivalence. But don't worry, even respectable people like Kurt Vonnegut fell for the lie that "hundrends of thousands" died as a result of the Dresden bombings.
i think i mixed up the number of dead and homeless peoples.
most holocaust denier get banned in the first weeks beccause for some reason they cannot resist talking about it.
Invader Zim
18th June 2012, 17:14
To my shame, I don't know anything about US internment camps during WW2.
However, I do know a little bit about the British context. The whole thing was a hysterical mass panic fuelled by the media, surrounding fear of an entirely fictitious 'fifth column', and that Germans living in Britain might be part of, or aiding, that fifth column. Looking at it the whole thing is really bizarre. There are examples of old ladies out in the country looking for trails of fabric left by fifth columnists to guide German paratroopers, and other equally ludicrous activities.
As for the camps themselves, most internees found themselves uprooted, at very short notice (if any in many cases), separated from their families, transported across the country to various different places by typically highly unsympathetic (often even cruel) staff, before ultimately being placed on a boat and sent to the Isle of Man. The women and children in one camp and the men in another. At least, in that respect, things could have been worse. They were placed in towns such as Port Erin which were, and remain, major tourism destinations, and were apparently placed in requisitioned hotels along the sea front.
But even with that small mercy the entire policy was a totally ludicrous example of cruel xenophobia, idiotic mass panic, media hyperbole and government stupidity.
x359594
18th June 2012, 17:22
The fact that Americans of Chinese descent were not interned during WW2 argues agaisnt the assumption that interment of Nisei and their parents was entirely motivated by racism or xenophobia.
Correct up to a point, but the major reason in California (where the vast majority of Issei and Nisei lived) was the seizure of agricultural and other real property by the state for non-payment of taxes and the subsequent auctioning of that property for under market value; xenophobia and racism were deployed in the service of an immense wealth transfer from the Japanese-Americans to their white competitors.
And incidentally, the Chinese were US allies during WWII so there was no reason to intern Chinese Americans.
wsg1991
18th June 2012, 17:24
i knew this from George Carlin last performance ( 2008 )
x359594
18th June 2012, 17:31
...there were legitimate considerations of national security that persuaded the government to isolate them from areas where they could potentially cause harm. I'm referring, of course, exclusively to the period in WW2 when the U.S. was at war with Japan.
There were absolutely no legitimate security concerns involved. Following an extensive investigation by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, J. Edgar Hoover himself signed off on a report that said there was no evidence of Japanese subversion.
By contrast, a only a few Japanese and Japanese Americans were removed from the Territory of Hawai'i while the rest who constituted a major part of the labor force of the islands were left at large. And Hawai'i was the home of several major military installations, including the recently attacked Pearl Harbor and Hickham Field.
Invader Zim
18th June 2012, 17:40
It was not like Nazi Germany, but it was not much better than Japan.
Really? Ever read about how the Japanese treated the Chinese civilians or POWs that came under their control?
Omsk
18th June 2012, 18:59
Really? Ever read about how the Japanese treated the Chinese civilians or POWs that came under their control?
They were both bourgeois states, so it does not matter which one was more violent toward it's enemies, they were both horrible and should be in the same row from the communist viewpoint. Also i don't see how the atrocities committed by the Japaniese will make the US any better , or less worse.
Invader Zim
18th June 2012, 22:39
They were both bourgeois states, so it does not matter which one was more violent toward it's enemies, they were both horrible and should be in the same row from the communist viewpoint. Also i don't see how the atrocities committed by the Japaniese will make the US any better , or less worse.
If it doesn't matter then why did you make the (inaccurate) argument that they were, qualitatively speaking, largely commensurate?
You were talking shit, it has been noted. Get over it.
Raúl Duke
19th June 2012, 00:17
The fact that Americans of Chinese descent were not interned during WW2 argues agaisnt the assumption that interment of Nisei and their parents was entirely motivated by racism or xenophobia.
Racism, no. Xenophobia, yes.
It's this whole idea that foreign ethnicity and/or their children are all brushed as actual or potential traitors due to their ethnicity. That's a xenophobic idea. In another thread, this same logic was used by the Soviets as well it seems after the war as a motivation for population transfers (i.e. there's a whole thread on Crimean Expulsion in 1944 on here recently, describing how Tartars, etc were seen as traitors...a whole ethnicity.)
Also, some element of racism was indeed involved; German-Americans and Italian-Americans were I heard interned in less numbers. Plus, as one mentioned earlier, in California there was some support for the internment move as it allowed whites (and perhaps also other Asians; I remember reading this tidbit about how fortune cookies were a Japanese-American invention and later became a Chinese-American one after the Japanese were interned) to seize previously Japanese-owned properties.
Omsk
19th June 2012, 21:12
If it doesn't matter then why did you make the (inaccurate) argument that they were, qualitatively speaking, largely commensurate?
I was speaking generally, but in truth, they were on the same level, just as bourgeois France and England were quite brutal,just as Fascist Italy.
in class we read a little newspaper bit on how to deifferentiate between a chinese and japanese (from the time)
goes without sayin it was like aryan and jew nazi propaganda
Invader Zim
20th June 2012, 13:14
I was speaking generally, but in truth, they were on the same level, just as bourgeois France and England were quite brutal,just as Fascist Italy.
I suggest you study this issue, because your understanding of the respective conditions of internment in say British vs. Japense camps is negligable at best.
Thirsty Crow
20th June 2012, 13:40
Yeah, I understand the possible justification from the war-time security perspective, or at least I can see why that reason may be given.
That's some outright bullshit.
When adopting the perspective of the capitalist state at war, we might accept the justification of the internment of individuals for whom reasonable suspicion was established that they were part of the enemy state's apparatus or in another way connected to it.
But blanket, indiscriminate internment of people whose ethnicity matches that of the dominant population of the enemy state cannot be understood as anything else than xenophobic paranoia, entirely based on the xenophobic asusmption of American-Japanese exercising loyalty neccesarily towards the Japanese state - because they are Japanese.
Workers-Control-Over-Prod
20th June 2012, 14:00
I remember reading last month about the recipients of the Medal of Freedom (Bob Dylan and 12 others) and coming across this name:
Gordon Hirabayashi, who fought the internment of Japanese-Americans during World War II and died in January
My first thought was, 'Well good on you for awarding him a medal...after he's dead?!'. But then I wanted to read up a bit more on internment camps (I had some vague knowledge of them from historic accounts and a couple of novels). After reading up more I was naturally disgusted by the blatant racism and fash-like attitude displayed by the military, government and news media. This then lead me to looking up examples of internment and concentration camps during the last 150 years, specifically in the mostly white, liberal-ish, West.
Maybe I was just ignorant and naive but I was surprised by how prevelant it was, especially during the WWI and WWII, from Canada to New Zealand, camps were set up for Germans, Japanese and Italians. There use internationally seems to be most prevelant in times of war (civil or otherwise).
Just found it grimly fascinating that these camps were used so much, I imagine most British and American people either aren't aware or don't care about their governments murky pasts and actions. Anyway, I found it interesting and felt like sharing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_concentration_and_internment_camps
Could you please recommend a novel about this?
Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant'
20th June 2012, 14:08
Could you please recommend a novel about this?
Damn it, I can only remember the name of one 'Snow Falling on Cedars'..admittedly not set during the internment period itself but in the aftermath of it (1954 or 55). The anti-Japanese senitment is very strong and I enjoyed the novel in general.
All my my other reading on the subject was online.
Book O'Dead
20th June 2012, 17:52
Racism, no. Xenophobia, yes.
It's this whole idea that foreign ethnicity and/or their children are all brushed as actual or potential traitors due to their ethnicity. That's a xenophobic idea. In another thread, this same logic was used by the Soviets as well it seems after the war as a motivation for population transfers (i.e. there's a whole thread on Crimean Expulsion in 1944 on here recently, describing how Tartars, etc were seen as traitors...a whole ethnicity.)
Also, some element of racism was indeed involved; German-Americans and Italian-Americans were I heard interned in less numbers. Plus, as one mentioned earlier, in California there was some support for the internment move as it allowed whites (and perhaps also other Asians; I remember reading this tidbit about how fortune cookies were a Japanese-American invention and later became a Chinese-American one after the Japanese were interned) to seize previously Japanese-owned properties.
You make valid points.
Xenophobia is abhorrent and I concede that it played a significant role in the politics of internment, particularly in the case we've been discussing.
But we have the benefit of hindsight, not only about the events as they transpired but their aftermath. Were significant numbers of interned Japanese and Nisei set free after the war? Did they relocate to their former homes, did they return to Japan? Did they re-establish their lost status and position in their respective communities?
I personally know of one such case. I once met a man who owned a greenhouse nursery in Oxnard or Port Hueneme, Ventura County, California. I can't remember how the conversation got started but I recall his telling me about his internment as a young boy in a camp somewhere in Arizona or New Mexico. I remember his telling me that he was not entirely oblivious to the ordeal he and his family were living and he told me that he spent most of his time either in school or playing with his mates. I remember expressing surprise and some outrage at the injustice and he laughed the slightly embarassed laugh that Japanese people are so accustomed to using in such moments. His family name was, I think, Nakashima.
The point I'm trying to make is this: That despite the malignant sentiments behind the politics of internment of Japanase people in the U.S. during WW2, the ultimate fate of these unjustly treated people was in most cases a good one, as compared to other instances where race-hatred guided the actions of oppressors towards their victims.
I just think a little balance is appropriate.
x359594
21st June 2012, 02:54
Could you please recommend a novel about this?
There are a few good novels/memoirs about this: Return to Manzanar by Jean Watsuki Houston, No-No Boy by John Okuda, Nisei Daughter by Monica Sone, and Selected Works of Toshio Mori are among the best.
x359594
21st June 2012, 03:20
...Were significant numbers of interned Japanese and Nisei set free after the war? Did they relocate to their former homes, did they return to Japan? Did they re-establish their lost status and position in their respective communities?...The point I'm trying to make is this: That despite the malignant sentiments behind the politics of internment of Japanase people in the U.S. during WW2, the ultimate fate of these unjustly treated people was in most cases a good one, as compared to other instances where race-hatred guided the actions of oppressors towards their victims...
Significant numbers of Issei and Nisei were set free after the war--but so were significant numbers of survivors of Hitler's death camps. Many had no former homes to re-locate to, their real property having been seized by the state for non-payment of taxes (including farmland, fishing settlements, private dwellings, and small businesses.) During the war some were forcibly repatriated to Japan. It took years to re-establish their lost status in their former communities (many professionals could only find work as gardeners for example.)
Psychologically, the Nisei suffered a deep sense of shame and refused to speak about their ordeal for years as related by their children, the Sansei who started the Asian-American Movement in the 1960s and who brought the camps back into public consciousness (note the number of books dealing with Executive Order 9066 that started appearing in the 1960s.)
Against much opposition the US Government finally recognized the injustice in 1988 and authorized reparations to former internees or their immediate relatives, and only last month the Los Angeles City Council voted to rescind the exclusion law it passed in 1942. This is still an open wound.
The point is there was absolutely no justification for the camps, not for national security or for the safety of the Issei and Nisei (an argument that was also made by apologists for the camps.) What happened was a big land grab, a huge transference of wealth that was facilitated by xenophobia and racism fanned primarily by the Los Angeles Times whose owners, the Otis family, had long standing agribusiness interests in California's Central Valley (the family patriarch, Gen. Harrison Gray Otis, was also a vicious union buster and Red baiter) and profited mightily by the internment through various front companies and individual cut outs.
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