Questions on Iraq

[Knowledge 6 6 6]

1.) If America hadn't gone into Iraq, do you think Saddam would've been overthrown? (Trust me, i'm SO not backing the US for their actions...just a question of curiosity)

2.) Would 'liberation' come to Iraq?

3.) What would have been done about Saddam's regime had the US done nothing?

Just some questions my right-winged American-supporter friend asked me. I told him I'd get back to him on that! Anyone? What do you guys think?

[Intifada]

the fact of the matter is, this was an unjust, immoral and pointless war in which many innocent and helpless people have died.

1. probably not

2. ask him if the people of iraq are liberated now, because they sure as hell are not.

3. we cant really tell can we?

this war was based upon LIES. there are no wmds, iraqis are not free, iraq had no links with bin laden and sept 11 2001, and it was about oil.

[Agent provocateur]

If Castro would have sent aid and "technicians" Iraq would truly have been liberated. The communists would have formed their popular militia; they would have been united against Hussein and his Stalinist supporters.

On the hand left to the devices of Saddam Hussein Iraq would be in a bad state but no worse than it is now.
Hussein used to exploit and oppress the Iraqis, now the U.S. multi-nationals exploit and the U.S. military and the governing junta oppresse the people. No difference.

[Knowledge 6 6 6]

hmm, but do you think Castro would've sent aid and 'technicians'? I mean, why would he care greatly about happenings in Iraq?

If we all agree that Saddam was an evil tyrrant...how do you get him out of power by peaceful means? Other than Gandhi, how is that possible?

Isnt bloodshed necessary (sorry to say) to get rid of this tyrrant?

...I thought i'd never say that b/c i'm too hell-bent on the peaceful means process.

[Kez]

The only answer was for the iraqi workers to overthrow the disgusting regime.

when imperialism attacked the workers should have overthrown the invaders, and then the dictator

now they must overthrow the imperialist regime

[Comité De Salut Public]

Castro cares about everything in all countries not just Latin
America.

[(*]

The thing is, it was not the America's war to fight. You can't force democracy on people. A revolution would have come to pass on its own time. Sit back and do nothing? no!
You use diplomacy, if that doesn't work, try again. America set a dangerous precedent with this war.

It in fact would give other nations even further justification to attack(preemptively) the united states on the basis that America is a growing threat .

But to answer you question, I don't believe that Saddam would have been overthrown anytime soon. If america is truly interested in "liberating" people they have dozens of other countries to attack. Will they? nah.

[Exploited Class]

A. I think Saddam would have been overthrown, but not by a large revolt, probably by somebody close to him. It is far more likely for a coup by the military than by the people. A failed war with Iran, then Kuwait followed by harsh economic sanctions, makes for a perfect opportunity to overthrow a dictator with less fear of backlash by the general public. It was getting pretty ripe for just that kind of action.

B. I don't think it would be liberation, it would be trading a dictator for another dictator. I am guessing that it would be a 'better' dictator, as he would be making changes internally to get international sanctions dropped on his country. If it was a bloodless coup, an a better dicatator it would have been better than previously but no liberation, no freedom. But it would have been better than what they are going through right now I am sure.

C. If left alone, he would have been assisinated or died of poor health or old age. That would create an immediate power vacuum and immediate struggles between family members and the military. It wouldn't be a workers revolt, it would become civil war between people tired of Saddam's failures and unhumane policies versus entrenched Saddam Loyalists. That would be an intresting civil war, because it would be one of the first in a first world country that had little military means left. Little hardware left after 2 failed wars, aged equipment, tired general military... it would have been intresting. But in the end, I think you would just see Iraq becoming 3 seperate countries because of geographical differences, and overhwelming majorities of 1 type of people per region.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Originally posted by Knowledge 6 6 [email protected] 13 2003, 04:25 PM
1.) If America hadn't gone into Iraq, do you think Saddam would've been overthrown? (Trust me, i'm SO not backing the US for their actions...just a question of curiosity)

2.) Would 'liberation' come to Iraq?

3.) What would have been done about Saddam's regime had the US done nothing?

Just some questions my right-winged American-supporter friend asked me. I told him I'd get back to him on that! Anyone? What do you guys think?
1) Probaly not. The ongoing US/Brittish/Turkish threat caused many Iraqi's to blindly follow Saddam. Just like the "terrorist threat" did the same thing in the post 9-11 USA.

2) No and it still hasn't come. Point out that someone who is happy to meet his "liberator" wouldn't organise massdemonstrations and armed resistance against their presence. Surely the demonstrations, resistance and great frustration amongst US troops and Iraqi citizens must mean something.

Furthermore don't expect changes for the Iraqi people. Sure the Iraqi elite has been changed a little, but it changed nothing, except that the moneyflow is now not going into Saddam's pocket, but in US corporate's pockets. Human Rights are still violated at a high rate. This time not by the Great Leader, but by the Liberator. An Iraqi working man really doesn't care about the propaganda names, what he does know, is that is still beeing abused.

Afteral Saddam had been supported and put into office by the CIA, to secure that the profits of Iraqi laborers would go into US corporate's hands, but Saddam rebelled. Therefor it was time to place a new leader. This has been done multiple times. An example which comes to mind instantly is Panama.

3) Don't know.

[DeadMan]

1) Probably not until he would of died and an instant before his sons would of taking over.

2) Not in the near future. But they would of done something in about 10-30 years. But it's happening now. Iraq doesn't seem to want the US in there homeland.

3) Nothing would of changed. They would of just sat there until someone else would of done something.

DeadMan.

[Comrade Beria]

Capitalist pigs have no moral authority to wage imperialist wars of agresssion for private property against innocent Marxist leaders like Saddam Hussein who do everything they can to create equality.

[Knowledge 6 6 6]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 14 2003, 03:13 AM
Capitalist pigs have no moral authority to wage imperialist wars of agresssion for private property against innocent Marxist leaders like Saddam Hussein who do eveything they can to create equality.
I'm not sure if you've seen the Iraqi torture tapes, but its pretty brutal. Equality? I dont think Saddam wants that as he kills his own people...

Saddam's ruthless in every form of the word. He should be in prison next to Slobadan, but he's not. He's still somewhere in Iraq, waiting for the right oppurtunity to arise....

Again, i'm not defending the US in any form...I'm just stating that Saddam's one evil mofo, and that I think if he's out of power, its somewhat beneficial to the people of Iraq. I totally disagree though, with the US for going in there...

[Comrade Beria]

Originally posted by Knowledge 6 6 6+Dec 14 2003, 03:25 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Knowledge 6 6 6 @ Dec 14 2003, 03:25 AM)
Comrade [email protected] 14 2003, 03:13 AM
Capitalist pigs have no moral authority to wage imperialist wars of agresssion for private property against innocent Marxist leaders like Saddam Hussein who do eveything they can to create equality.
I&#39;m not sure if you&#39;ve seen the Iraqi torture tapes, but its pretty brutal. Equality? I dont think Saddam wants that as he kills his own people...

Saddam&#39;s ruthless in every form of the word. He should be in prison next to Slobadan, but he&#39;s not. He&#39;s still somewhere in Iraq, waiting for the right oppurtunity to arise....

Again, i&#39;m not defending the US in any form...I&#39;m just stating that Saddam&#39;s one evil mofo, and that I think if he&#39;s out of power, its somewhat beneficial to the people of Iraq. I totally disagree though, with the US for going in there... [/b]
You sound exactly like George W. Bush.

[peaccenicked]

The American Gov gave him the mandate to oppress the majority of Iraqis in the first place.
If they gave him the mandate to introduce democracy he would have done so.
Who assumes that the Us Gov wants democracy in Iraq in the first place.
Even when the US/Uk Coalition was bombing many Iraqis Believed Saddam was a puppet of Uncle Sam.
It was not only about oil , the profits are in American banks. (just for safe keeping of course????????????)It is also making the Middle east safe for Isreal.
2
If liberation consists of being killed, injured,curfews,the wrecking of homes, the absence of water. and eletricity, the constant sounds of guns and helicopters all night, then sure they are liberated.
Saddams dictatorship is a red herring in that he played for US foriegn policy right up to the invasion of Kuwait, which the US gov encouraged him to do.
3
The Iraqis just now are dealing with the main enemy directly.
Who ever the US leaves in charge of Iraq has to do Saddams old job ie oppressing the majority, and the various minorities with any claims on oil revenue.
It maybe that they will try to institute a &#39;benevolent&#39; dictatorship but
the benevolence will be still less than what Saddam &#39;provided&#39;.

[Comrade Beria]

The crusading cowboy George W. Bush and the Western imperialist Americans are evil. Comrade Hussein is a fellow Marxist and he is innocent. He knows how to run a State and manage an economy properly.

[Ian]

Comrade Beria:

http://www.printedsolutions.com/images/dinosaur.jpg

[peaccenicked]

Comrade Beria.
http://members.aol.com/DinoPixels/tricer.jpg

[Se7en]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 13 2003, 10:44 PM
The crusading cowboy George W. Bush and the Western imperialist Americans are evil. Comrade Hussein is a fellow Marxist and he is innocent. He knows how to run a State and manage an economy properly.
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