Best left-wing countries to live in?

[Skyhilist]

So I've been wanting to move out of the USA for awhile now. I'm into zoology and want to research animals, specifically reptiles and amphibians. So I'm looking for a preferably tropical country (near or between the Tropic of Cancer and Tropic of Capricorn). Although I'm an anarcho-syndicalist, I'm also a pan-leftist, and would prefer any progressive, non-oppressive country to the USA. I've already researched Scandinavian countries, but I think those are too far north. I was also considering Venezuela but I feel like much of the progressiveness in that country will crumble after the death of Chavez, who in my opinion wasn't even doing that great of a job in the first place. I was also considering Cuba, but that could be difficult seeing as it's illegal. Could anyone provide any other possible options?

[Red Rabbit]

China.


/sarcasm


No really, you're best bet would be Norway.

[ed miliband]

you're really barking up the wrong tree if you're looking for a "progressive, non-oppressive country" to live in. by all means move to a tropical country because you like the scenery or the food or the people, or because you think you'll have better opportunities there, but don't imagine you can drop out of the global capitalist system simply by leaving the usa.

[Skyhilist]

you're really barking up the wrong tree if you're looking for a "progressive, non-oppressive country" to live in. by all means move to a tropical country because you like the scenery or the food or the people, or because you think you'll have better opportunities there, but don't imagine you can drop out of the global capitalist system simply by leaving the usa.

I know I can't. I'm just looking for a country that is better than the USA despite it's capitalism. I mean I by no means support capitalism... but I can't just magically create a country in my image, so it'd be nice to at least live in a country without so many fascists, imperialists, and brainwashed god-fearing nationalists.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

I know I can't. I'm just looking for a country that is better than the USA despite it's capitalism. I mean I by no means support capitalism... but I can't just magically create a country in my image, so it'd be nice to at least live in a country without so many fascists, imperialists, and brainwashed god-fearing nationalists.

Sorry, probably no such place exists.

[Deicide]

it'd be nice to at least live in a country without so many fascists, imperialists, and brainwashed god-fearing nationalists.

Let me know when you find one..

[Zukunftsmusik]

Sorry, but I think this is a really stupid idea, as you'll never find what you're after here. Even the "best left leaning countries" are pretty poor for their workers.


No really, you're best bet would be Norway

No, really, it wouldn't (and I'm not talking about Norway not being tropical)

[Terminator X]

An exercise in futility. If you do this, you're just going to end up on a perpetual hunt for a country that's "lefter" than the one you're in. You'd be better off finding a place you can tolerate, surrounding yourself with like-minded people, and doing your best to struggle through. Other options include moving to a commune (which personally sounds like absolute hell) or hoping that Mars gets colonized.

[Astarte]

This thread is absurd, in an ultra-left infantile way. There are plenty of countries "more left" than the US of A. For starters, check to see which ones have nationalized healthcare - you know, the kind of place where healthcare is a right, and not a "privilege".

[Lenina Rosenweg]

All countries today are capitalist. Bolivia, Venezuala, Cuba, have leftist governments and to various extents Brazil, Ecuador, Nicaragua, and Argentina have left of center governments.

Possibly Vietnam. There is not much leftist about China except for the fact that its ruled by a huge organized crime syndicate which calls itself the "Communist Party"and sometimes uses the hammer and sickle symbol.

As far as countries which pride themselves on being progressive and tolerant, if not leftist, any of the Scandinavian countries. Of course there is a fair amount of hypocrisy, like everywhere else, and there are problems with racism. My guess Norway and Iceland might be interesting. It was very moving the way people in Norway came together after the Breivak massacre.Never been there though.

That's it really.

There are countries which have a large and growing level of class struggle. Right now they appear to be France (no surprise there), Mexico, Canada, Spain, maybe the UK, and Greece.

If you are interested in marine biology, Greece might be the best place for you if Syriza wins the election this Sunday. They have a lot of waterfront, the coastal areas have a warm Mediterranean climate, the people are friendly and laid back, and you just might find yourself in the midst of a socialist revolution.

As others said, I wouldn't go to a country because its more "leftist" than where you are now.Everywhere is becoming a shit sandwich for common folks.Go to another country to experience a different culture, scenary, unique people and experiences. The socialist paradise doesn't exist anywhere.
Yet.

[ed miliband]

This thread is absurd, in an ultra-left infantile way. There are plenty of countries "more left" than the US of A. For starters, check to see which ones have nationalized healthcare - you know, the kind of place where healthcare is a right, and not a "privilege".

actually, in many places - even "social-democratic" scandinavia - healthcare is becoming increasingly privatised. this has been going on slowly, bit by bit, for the last two decades. another decade and i'm sure the process will be finished.

e: unless there is mass resistance, we can't be defeatist of course.

[Astarte]

actually, in many places - even "social-democratic" scandinavia - healthcare is becoming increasingly privatised. this has been going on slowly, bit by bit, for the last two decades. another decade and i'm sure the process will be finished.

e: unless there is mass resistance, we can't be defeatist of course.

Indeed, that is what "austerity" is all about after all - and it is a global phenomenon being pursued at the highest levels of international capital. Still though, as of right now, there are a lot of places which, in reality, are to the left of the USA in terms of social services and the all around political consciousness of society. Greece is a testament to this - austerity there threatened to start rolling back gains on healthcare and more, and there has been mass resistance. Though, of course, a country like France can be considered "Social Democratic" at best, I doubt there would be any less resistance there if austerity began to threaten national healthcare and other social programs which uphold higher living standards/qualities of life than the USA.

[Skyhilist]

Thanks for your thoughts guys. I guess you're right there really is no way to escape capitalism. I want to study venomous snakes though, particularly elapids (which live primarily in tropical areas) , so any tropical area that at least isn't a complete shithole would be nice. Thanks for those who gave me suggestions already.

[Sasha]

surinam is nice, empty and dirt cheap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suriname). run by completely croney corruption of epidemic proportions at offcial level (they just voted back in their former junta dictator because the alternatives sucked at least as bad) but in general it is a laid back country with enough room to get away from the not so good shit (only 500.000 people in a decent sized country, almost all living on the coastline). so very nice pristine jungle too. you can probably go and play with the "makka sneki" (bush-master http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lachesis_muta) and make money on it as it is not a well researched snake yet imensily feared by the locals..

[WanderingCactus]

OP, you seem to have already come to terms with it, but I'll echo most of the others here. As nice as it'd be, there's no escaping the system. The best you can do is go somewhere beautiful with fair enough infrastructure, yeah? I hope you find something that suits you.


This thread is absurd, in an ultra-left infantile way. There are plenty of countries "more left" than the US of A. For starters, check to see which ones have nationalized healthcare - you know, the kind of place where healthcare is a right, and not a "privilege".

"an ultra-left infantile way"? Are you serious?

[MarxSchmarx]

Ask the EZLN if they'd let you live with them. Chiapas and central america generally is an amazing place for studying snakes because there is a real altitudinal gradient from sea snakes on the cost to many of the high desert species you find in north america; I believe there is a healthy terciopelo population in the cloud forests there. There are also pygmy boas and its where the north american/south american biotas intersect. And if you even give up snakes and want to do insects or birds or plants its a spectacular place for that.

There is also a venom research lab in the regional capital Tuxtla Guitierrez but you will have to go into "real mexico" for that. The border with Guatemala is a bit sketchy as its run by drug smugglers but as long as you remain inside Zapatista land they will leave you alone.

[black magick hustla]

most people want to escape third world shitholes. well i guess the dollar money of white leftist tourists can buy you a lot in a third world shithole, there is a whole market for that

[o well this is ok I guess]

most people want to escape third world shitholes. well i guess the dollar money of white leftist tourists can buy you a lot in a third world shithole, there is a whole market for that 2 bucks for a 26oz of hard alcohol, 50 cents for a beer.
Tourist money goes a long way out there.

[roy]

coastal north-eastern australia is tropical as balls and there is no shortage of venomous snakes. kinda short on communists but folks are nice i spose.

[workerist]

it's a fair question. lets be honest the USA itself is turning into a "third world shithole" and it could become a very scary place in 10+ years. i would be thinking about moving too if i wanted to live in a more humane society and didn't have the mettle to stay and fight.

[tachosomoza]

Most of the countries that you'd be interested in are either run by the military, warlords, corrupt "presidents", or otherwise aren't nice places to live for a myriad of reasons. Most of Africa is in an eternal state of ethnic/religious/some other form of conflict, and probably aren't too keen on pale Americans coming in. Myanmar is nuts, Vietnam is turning into China, South America has dangerous drug gangs who'll kidnap you because they think you're from a wealthy family. I'd stay in America, at least in the majority of this country you don't have to worry about staring down the point of an AK, thrown in jail for no legitimate reason, greasing the palms of the authorities at every turn and intersection, being kidnapped and dying of some sick jungle illness, or being panga-panga'd to death in the middle of the night.

[MustCrushCapitalism]

Freetown Christiania. Awesome place (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freetown_Christiania)

[Zukunftsmusik]

This thread is absurd, in an ultra-left infantile way.


"an ultra-left infantile way"? Are you serious?

yeah, seriously, how is it in any way "ultra left" or "infantile" to point out that all countries in the world are in fact capitalistic? I see a few people already have pointed out Norway and Scandinavia. As a person that have lived my whole, short life in Norway, I can tell you it's by no means a workers' paradise, if that's what you're thinking. Our social democratic government is continuously making things worse for workers, by doing pretty much anything the EU says or by cooperating with the conservatives. The political debate in Norway is pretty much reduced to what we're gonna use our oil money on, and how much of it.

And btw, in Scandinavia at least, this hasn't got anything to do with austerity measures, as we're so long doing pretty fine compared to other European states. You're correct about the health care thing, though.


Freetown Christiania. Awesome place (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freetown_Christiania)

disregarding that it's not tropical, this is actually the best advice so far, I think.

[Tim Cornelis]

surinam is nice, empty and dirt cheap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suriname). run by completely croney corruption of epidemic proportions at offcial level (they just voted back in their former junta dictator because the alternatives sucked at least as bad) but in general it is a laid back country with enough room to get away from the not so good shit (only 500.000 people in a decent sized country, almost all living on the coastline). so very nice pristine jungle too. you can probably go and play with the "makka sneki" (bush-master http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lachesis_muta) and make money on it as it is not a well researched snake yet imensily feared by the locals..

Suriname is by no means a left-wing country though. At best you can point that Suriname is arguably the most racially, ethnically tolerant, yet diverse, country, and respect for each other's religion.

[Sasha]

Suriname is by no means a left-wing country though. At best you can point that Suriname is arguably the most racially, ethnically tolerant, yet diverse, country, and respect for each other's religion.

just above my post the OP already gave up on the leftwing bit and settled for laidback & tropical with poisinous snakes to study, but your more than right...

[Igor]

Most of the countries that you'd be interested in are either run by the military, warlords, corrupt "presidents", or otherwise aren't nice places to live for a myriad of reasons. Most of Africa is in an eternal state of ethnic/religious/some other form of conflict, and probably aren't too keen on pale Americans coming in. Myanmar is nuts, Vietnam is turning into China, South America has dangerous drug gangs who'll kidnap you because they think you're from a wealthy family. I'd stay in America, at least in the majority of this country you don't have to worry about staring down the point of an AK, thrown in jail for no legitimate reason, greasing the palms of the authorities at every turn and intersection, being kidnapped and dying of some sick jungle illness, or being panga-panga'd to death in the middle of the night.

Uh, well, have you ever visited any of these countries? You're sounding like someone who's never left or never would like to leave America because rest of the world is too scary. Guess what? Most people turn out okay even in those countries and some of these generalizations are just absurd. Do you actually think that getting kidnapped by drug gangs is actually a possibility in Buenos Aires, Montevideo, Lima or even Mexico City? :rolleyes: I'm not sure if you know, but there is Latin America beyond Juarez.

There's entire world out there, and you decide to mention countries like Myanmar. Well, I don't think Myanmar really was discussed here. If he wanted to live in SE Asia, countries like Thailand, Singapore, HK and Malaysia wouldn't even mean lowering your standard of living. Other countries of the region like Cambodia and Laos are rather poor, but really quite safe at the moment. And what do you mean turning into China? It's like "being China" would somehow be bad thing for an Asian countries. I guess quite many of them would like to "be China". And no, if you live in China, the secret Maoist police won't come and kill you just because.

Cases of "people being thrown into jail for no apparent reason" is actually pretty rare and usually involves people doing stupid shit and being ignorant of the local legislation. Yeah, the laws might be stupid occasionally, but they're still out there and it's not exactly a secret that you can't spray paint over picture of the Thai king or wander around drunk in Tehran. Getting AKs pointed at your face might be a serious risk, if you were thinking about FARC controlled Venezuela, southern Afghanistan or perhaps Somalia for emigration, but I wouldn't worry about random AKs in my face in most parts of the world.

And not to mention that these points are all about third world countries, which aren't really that bad places to live if your finances are fine. Then there's the fact that there is, indeed, plenty of first world countries outside the USA! I come from one of those, I've never been in jail and never actually been pointed with an AK! Man, I'm beating the odds. Not to mention that many of these countries actually have a better standard of living than the United States. You're not the best country in the world to live, really.

Dude, you really need to travel. It's pretty ballin

[Astarte]

yeah, seriously, how is it in any way "ultra left" or "infantile" to point out that all countries in the world are in fact capitalistic? I see a few people already have pointed out Norway and Scandinavia. As a person that have lived my whole, short life in Norway, I can tell you it's by no means a workers' paradise, if that's what you're thinking. Our social democratic government is continuously making things worse for workers, by doing pretty much anything the EU says or by cooperating with the conservatives. The political debate in Norway is pretty much reduced to what we're gonna use our oil money on, and how much of it.

And btw, in Scandinavia at least, this hasn't got anything to do with austerity measures, as we're so long doing pretty fine compared to other European states. You're correct about the health care thing, though.
disregarding that it's not tropical, this is actually the best advice so far, I think.

How is it in any way ultra left or infantile to point out that all countries in the world are in fact capitalist? For several reasons. The primary one being all countries in the world are not "capitalist". I would not described North Korea as being capitalist by any means, since the ruling bureaucracy does not rest its mode of power on capital. In North Korea accumulations of capital do not make one a member of the ruling class, but having connections in the bureaucratic structure of the political and military apparatus does - with these connections comes goods, products and services that the majority of people cannot access, mass accumulations of use-capital really play no part in the equation of the North Korean national economy. Thus, No, North Korea is not "capitalism" (its not socialist either, to be sure), but to say "every country in the world is capitalist!" is, in my opinion, a gross generalization, and is at best vulgarization of theory.

Secondly, you demonstrate your infantilism - "Norway is no workers' paradise, if that's what you're thinking". Um. I never said it was, and I doubt anyone here is under that impression, all I said was that nations with nationalized universal healthcare are, i.e. "Social Democracies", are to the left of the USA. Now, to turn things around a bit, have you ever been to the USA, or lived in the USA, or even read much about how real, affective social services do not exist here? If you knew about these things, you would realize, Norway is actually to the left of the USA.

Wait, the debate in Norway is around how we're going to use "our oil money", what do you mean? You even have a nationalized oil industry where the proceeds are used for social development? Yes. It is ultra-left infantilism to think Norwegian capitalism is as far right as USA capitalism. Again, I know its not a workers' paradise, but you have no idea what is going down in the USA.

[Zukunftsmusik]

How is it in any way ultra left or infantile to point out that all countries in the world are in fact capitalist? For several reasons. The primary one being all countries in the world are not "capitalist". [North Korean economic system]

Haven't studied the economic system in North Korea, sorry. I might have been too generalizing.


Secondly, you demonstrate your infantilism - "Norway is no workers' paradise, if that's what you're thinking". Um. I never said it was, and I doubt anyone here is under that impression [...]

I know. It was an "over statement", hyperbole.


[...] all I said was that nations with nationalized universal healthcare are, i.e. "Social Democracies", are to the left of the USA. Now, to turn things around a bit, have you ever been to the USA, or lived in the USA, or even read much about how real, affective social services do not exist here? If you knew about these things, you would realize, Norway is actually to the left of the USA.

I have never been to the US, neither have I studied its social service system or lack thereof. I've read some about it, but not that much.


Wait, the debate in Norway is around how we're going to use "our oil money", what do you mean? You even have a nationalized oil industry where the proceeds are used for social development?

Partly nationalised, yes. It's still capitalism in Norway (I don't really think you're implying it's not, though?). What I mean is that it's not really any real working class politics in Norway. And even though we have a decent public schooling system (most states have, though), cheap public healthcare etc., the pendule is slowly swinging in the liberal/conservative direction. "Even" with the social democratic party in charge such rights, in addition to workers' rights, are withering away.


Yes. It is ultra-left infantilism to think Norwegian capitalism is as far right as USA capitalism. Again, I know its not a workers' paradise, but you have no idea what is going down in the USA.

I actually never said that Norway is "as far right as USA capitalism", though. What I said was that it's not paradise, things are pretty shitty for the most poor/prole here too. I suppose the US is worse than Norway, yes, but some things are bad here as well. Have you ever been to Norway or Scandinavia or studied what's going on here?

Also, you may have explained how you think this is infantile, but you've yet to explain how it's "ultra-left" (I don't consider myself as an ultra-leftist btw)

[ed miliband]

really though, it's different strokes for different folks, to use a cliche.

my uncle doesn't have healthcare in the us, but he chooses to live in san francisco because he loves it and he has loads of friends there.

i think that's the point about capitalism - even if you are materially in a good position, as a worker it'll still suck. it'll still be alienating and boring and so on. my uncle swapped having a relatively decent position in a material sense for having loads of friends and a lifestyle he finds exciting and interesting.

communists should be concerned about overcoming this gap.

[Tim Cornelis]

just above my post the OP already gave up on the leftwing bit and settled for laidback & tropical with poisinous snakes to study, but your more than right...

I missed that.


Thanks for your thoughts guys. I guess you're right there really is no way to escape capitalism. I want to study venomous snakes though, particularly elapids (which live primarily in tropical areas) , so any tropical area that at least isn't a complete shithole would be nice. Thanks for those who gave me suggestions already.

I'd go for Trinidad & Tobago then. Nice, tropical weather. Loads of snakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_snakes_of_Trinidad_and_Tobago) (though not the ones you prefer). Their house of representatives has four parties, three of which are centre-left (which jointly have 39 of 41 seats). Though I don't know whether they have proper social security, workers' rights, and welfare. Quite an affluent country as well. Though Trinidad and Tobago is more ethnically divided compared to Suriname.

Looks nice, at least to me.

[El Oso Rojo]

Most of the countries that you'd be interested in are either run by the military, warlords, corrupt "presidents", or otherwise aren't nice places to live for a myriad of reasons. Most of Africa is in an eternal state of ethnic/religious/some other form of conflict, and probably aren't too keen on pale Americans coming in. Myanmar is nuts, Vietnam is turning into China, South America has dangerous drug gangs who'll kidnap you because they think you're from a wealthy family. I'd stay in America, at least in the majority of this country you don't have to worry about staring down the point of an AK, thrown in jail for no legitimate reason, greasing the palms of the authorities at every turn and intersection, being kidnapped and dying of some sick jungle illness, or being panga-panga'd to death in the middle of the night.

You sound like a republican.

[GerrardWinstanley]

Venezuela is no paradise and the problems imposed on it by its previous US-backed neoliberal comprador government. It has enacted some radical government programmes and has thrown a lot of support behind cooperatives and communes. He is also working closely with Cuba to improve Venezuela's healthcare system. For this, Chavez deserves the critical support of socialists and to be defended from slanderers in the Western media.

But don't get the wrong idea. Venezuela is still a typical Latin American country in many ways and its problems are never going to be solved overnight. Very unequal (possibly moreso than the United Kingdom although don't quote me on that), very class-divided, lots of social injustice and one of the worst crime rates in South America (which is saying something).

[Tim Cornelis]

Very unequal (possibly moreso than the United Kingdom although don't quote me on that), very class-divided, lots of social injustice and one of the worst crime rates in South America (which is saying something).

A lot more unequal than the UK. Higher inequality level than the US (which is saying a lot).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/GINIretouchedcolors.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality

[Os Cangaceiros]

I sympathize with the OP a little bit. The USA is a terrible country, in my opinion. I've lived here all my life and I hate, hate, hate the attitudes of the vast majority of my fellow countrymen, most of which span the range between milquetoast liberalism and hardcore quasi-fascist nationalism, but all of which are spiked with a good dose of fatalism or a naive belief in electoral politics. This country is a brutal police state maskerading as the "land of the free". Not on the level of some tinpot dictatorship where there's a good chance of your town being mortared or your family getting killed by vigilantes/paramilitaries, but you definitely don't want to find yourself in the criminal justice system here.

With that being said, the grass is always greener on the other side. You can go to other, supposedly more enlightened countries, complain about the American cops, and then get told that the cops where you're at are just as bad.

[Ocean Seal]

Sorry, probably no such place exists.
Well you can probably be without fascists and imperialists in Cuba. I'm sure that nationalism and religious zeal are around there though. Cuba would be a cool place to live, its got a rich history, and nice historical buildings, a warm climate and a nice people and pretty good healthcare.

[MotherCossack]

in my opinion..... there arnt many places on planet earth as revolting as the good old U S of A..... for many reasons......if i was from there... i'd try to distance myself from it...as a matter of urgency!
A lot of people , over here..... pretty much hate the place and what it represents...... unfortunately a whole heap of others seem to worship everything that you sling at us...... including the blood-curdlingly awful horseshite..... it must be our special relationship?!....

By the way.... i couldn't help noticing that you seem remarkably solvent...... i must say.... if you really are in a position to make the kind of choices that you talk about and act on them by moving in this way.... then you are very lucky..... you might not know this but a lot of us do not get the opportunity to escape.... even briefly.....

[Brosa Luxemburg]

but you definitely don't want to find yourself in the criminal justice system here.

I agree 110%. The criminal justice system here is harsh, irrational, and utterly racist beyond belief.

[Skyhilist]

in my opinion..... there arnt many places on planet earth as revolting as the good old U S of A..... for many reasons......if i was from there... i'd try to distance myself from it...as a matter of urgency!
A lot of people , over here..... pretty much hate the place and what it represents...... unfortunately a whole heap of others seem to worship everything that you sling at us...... including the blood-curdlingly awful horseshite..... it must be our special relationship?!....

By the way.... i couldn't help noticing that you seem remarkably solvent...... i must say.... if you really are in a position to make the kind of choices that you talk about and act on them by moving in this way.... then you are very lucky..... you might not know this but a lot of us do not get the opportunity to escape.... even briefly.....

Why are you saying "that you sling at us"? It's not my fault I live in a corrupt country. Other than that, thanks, I consider myself lucky in that aspect as well, although I'm not that much above average in the solvency department.

[Sasha]

Why are you saying "that you sling at us"? It's not my fault I live in a corrupt country. Other than that, thanks, I consider myself lucky in that aspect as well, although I'm not that much above average in the solvency department.

do not try to make sense of mother cossack, her posting style is lets say "special" :lol:
but she is lovely to have arround...