Antitheism

[TheRedAnarchist23]

I have seen many atheists making good arguments against the existance of God, while ignoring the existance of other religions besides christianism and islamism.

The way I see it antitheism is incompatible with anarchism, if one stands for freedom, one must stand for all types of freedom, even religious freedom.

There are many religions, with diferent views as to what a god is, and his power. Criticising the christian/islamist view of god, is not valid for other religions.

Atheists tend to think logically, they think "how can a benevolent omnipotent being exist and allow such evil to happen in the world?", once again this only apllies to monotheistic religions. What about buddhism?
buddhism does not speak of a benevolent omnipotent being, it speaks of universal principles. Does this criticism apply to buddhism?

When one is antitheist because he thinks gods are not real, one does not understand what religion is, religion is not about if there is a god or not, it is about belief in that god or not.
Just because the greeks believed in many gods, that does not mean those gods were real, but in the minds of the greeks they were, these omnipotent entities gave them strength, wether they were real or imaginary.

To forbid worship is one of the worst things one can do, to erase it is to erase one of the best sources of hope.

One cannot denny that the catholic church is a reactionary institution, but between religion and the curch there is a huge gap. The church serves itself, religions serves mankind.

Belief in inexistance of a god does not make one more enlightened. Through this logic, belief in inexistance of everything should make you the most enlightened person in the universe.


In terms of religion, one should never ask himself "is this god real?", one should ask himself "Do I believe in this god?", religion was never a matter of logic, it was allways a matter of faith, to apply logic to it is to destroy it.


This is a message to all antitheists who accuse the religions of others of being false, this is the same as saying to a socialist that socialism would never work, it has the same effect.

An enlightened age should not view religion as a bad thing, it should be enlightened enough to see religion for what it is, a good thing.

[Revolution starts with U]

Are anti-theists trying to stop people from practicing religion? Or just telling them their religion is dumb?

[Book O'Dead]

I think that in many cases anti-religionism and atheism are just excuses to attack a straw man. Many people who proclaim their opposition to the belief in God and religion are reactionary when it comes to attacking capitalism which, in my opinion, is the dominant religion of our time.

[eric922]

Are anti-theists trying to stop people from practicing religion? Or just telling them their religion is dumb?
It depends. Based on some of the posts on these forums I get the feeling there are some people who fall into the first category. Though, the majority of anti-theists probably fall into the second.

[TheRedAnarchist23]

Are anti-theists trying to stop people from practicing religion? Or just telling them their religion is dumb?

Telling someone religious that their religion is dumb is the same as telling a socialist that socialism would never work, it makes the person mad and has no effect on the person's beleifs.

[Zukunftsmusik]

I have seen many atheists making good arguments against the existance of God, while ignoring the existance of other religions besides christianism and islamism.

It's islam, not islamism. Islamism is a political ideology.


The way I see it antitheism is incompatible with anarchism, if one stands for freedom, one must stand for all types of freedom, even religious freedom.

Do you stand for people's freedom to be enslaved? You're kinda ignoring the fact that most if not all religions have a rigid hierarchy, based on men's power over women etc. Also, not many anarchist or communists argue for the abolition of personal belief, only organised religion (as it's organised today at least)


One cannot denny that the catholic church is a reactionary institution, but between religion and the curch there is a huge gap. The church serves itself, religions serves mankind.

Don't you think religions in themselves (and not as organisations/institutions) can have reactionary values? Do they then "serve mankind"?


Belief in inexistance of a god does not make one more enlightened. Through this logic, belief in inexistance of everything should make you the most enlightened person in the universe.

Uh, not really, no. To deny that things that are proven to exist, would make you the exact opposite of the most enlightened person in the universe.


In terms of religion, one should never ask himself "is this god real?", one should ask himself "Do I believe in this god?", religion was never a matter of logic, it was allways a matter of faith, to apply logic to it is to destroy it.

I think that's exactly why a lot of people criticise it.


This is a message to all antitheists who accuse the religions of others of being false, this is the same as saying to a socialist that socialism would never work, it has the same effect.

What do you mean by this?

[Revolution starts with U]

Telling someone religious that their religion is dumb is the same as telling a socialist that socialism would never work, it makes the person mad and has no effect on the person's beleifs.

So?

[Zukunftsmusik]

I think that in many cases anti-religionism and atheism are just excuses to attack a straw man. Many people who proclaim their opposition to the belief in God and religion are reactionary when it comes to attacking capitalism which, in my opinion, is the dominant religion of our time.

um, no. It's the absolute dominant mode of production of our time, but not a religion. (you could of course call the ideologies in support of capitalism, for "religions" or at lest compare them to it, but capitalism is a way of organising production, not a system of belief.)

[Book O'Dead]

Telling someone religious that their religion is dumb is the same as telling a socialist that socialism would never work, it makes the person mad and has no effect on the person's beleifs.

Besides, there may be a time when circumstance will compel people of faith to join the side of the working class in a revolution. What will we say to them then, "sorry bro, but you can't help us because you believe in God"?

[eric922]

I think that in many cases anti-religionism and atheism are just excuses to attack a straw man. Many people who proclaim their opposition to the belief in God and religion are reactionary when it comes to attacking capitalism which, in my opinion, is the dominant religion of our time.
This times a 100. I, think, that some socialists spend far too much energy combating religion and not enough combating capitalism. I mean, really, who cares if someone one believes Jesus is the Son of God or Mohammed received the Quran from Gabriel as long as they are anti-capitalist? I don't.

[Book O'Dead]

um, no. It's the absolute dominant mode of production of our time, but not a religion. (you could of course call the ideologies in support of capitalism, for "religions" or at lest compare them to it, but capitalism is a way of organising production, not a system of belief.)

I agree. But I was referring not to capitalim as it actually is but how it is perceived on the part of many people, inclunding most members of the working class.

[eric922]

Besides, there may be a time when circumstance will compel people of faith to join the side of the working class in a revolution. What will we say to them then, "sorry bro, but you can't help us because you believe in God"?

I really don't understand the Left's strong anti-religious stance. The vast majority of the working class is religious and they aren't going to give that up, no matter how much some people wish they would.

[Book O'Dead]

Another important point regarding religion and people of faith is that throughout history many revolutions and social struggles have been led by religious people, some of who we still admire today. For example, Martin Luther King jr, Mohandas Ghandi, Ann Lee, etc.

[Book O'Dead]

I really don't understand the Left's strong anti-religious stance. The vast majority of the working class is religious and they aren't going to give that up, no matter how much some people wish they would.

It's the bourgeois "left" that has turned atheism into a fetish.

[Zukunftsmusik]

Besides, there may be a time when circumstance will compel people of faith to join the side of the working class in a revolution. What will we say to them then, "sorry bro, but you can't help us because you believe in God"?

This is hardly the case at all though, when organising etc. We want the workers of the world to reach power as a class, completely regardless of their belief, gender, "race" etc. As long as we don't let reactionary beliefs influence the politics, I don't see any reason to deny religious workers to join the fight, and I don't think anyone does.


I agree. But I was referring not to capitalim as it actually is but how it is perceived on the part of many people, inclunding most members of the working class.

In other words as ideology. Get it. Thanks for clearing up.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Are anti-theists trying to stop people from practicing religion? Or just telling them their religion is dumb?

It really depends on the anti-theist. I have actually encountered some(not on this site) who want religion banned and anybody even caught just praying will be imprisoned.

[harte.beest]

"how can a benevolent omnipotent being exist and allow such evil to happen in the world?"

Yeah 5 year olds think this "maybe" us adults know god has nothing to do with good-ness or benevolence. (Obviously you were raised catholic) Is god all good or all powerful? Stupidest question in the world for Christians to ask...
Children tease gods prophets, they get eaten alive by wild bears, your daughter gets raped by a stranger, she must now marry him and have his kid.

God is one evil psychotic bastard, you don't even wanna know what happens if you piss him off directly :laugh:

[znk666]

Anti-theists,such as myself tend to pinpoint the harm religion did and is doing to society,attempting to persuade people their religion has nothing to do with love and compassion -only bigotry and oppression,and that it is not compatible with any civilized society.
To a degree i agree with it's ''restriction'',but not a total ban.

It really depends on the anti-theist. I have actually encountered some(not on this site) who want religion banned and anybody even caught just praying will be imprisoned.
Now that's just over the line.

[Revolution starts with U]

Restricting symptoms pales in comparison to restricting causes.

[Coggeh]

In my opinion (and i enphasize this) anti-theism has no place in the realm of marxism or should it have on in the realm of the revolutionary left. Its basis as far as i have read is zlitch. Engels, Lenin, Marx and Connolly have come out against it as a tactic and as an attitude time and time again. To paraphrase Connolly: In the main the vast majority of anti-theists are arms in arms political comrades of his holiness the pope and the most adamant enemies of socialism.

Marxists understand the nature of organised religion as a tool used to oppress the working class and not an independent evil of which has caused wars rather than the actual explanation of that religion is used as an excuse by the bourgeoisie for wars for resources/land etc etc (a lie which i keep finding repeated on this site).

Wrote a blog on this a while back for people who are interested:http://www.revleft.com/vb/blog.php?b=1668 PT.1
http://www.revleft.com/vb/blog.php?b=1673 PT.2

[hatzel]

There are many religions, with diferent views as to what a god is, and his power.

Interesting how nobody has yet picked up on this, what with the friction between 'different views as to what a god is' and a wholly committed use of the masculine pronoun...

[eric922]

Interesting how nobody has yet picked up on this, what with the friction between 'different views as to what a god is' and a wholly committed use of the masculine pronoun...
Not all religions use a masculine pronoun for God. Most Neo-Pagans don't. Wiccans worship both a God and Goddess, and the Dianaic sect doesn't even acknowledge the God. I've also heard that Islam, while usually using a male pronoun, doesn't believe God to be truly male. Anyway, sorry if you were only addressing the person you quoted and not commenting on religion in general.

[roy]

anti-theism is annoying and not much else

[Revolution starts with U]

anti-anti-theists are merely knee-jerk apologists for the most degrading ideologies to ever exist.

You say we shouldn't attack working class people for being religious? I say you're saying we shouldn't attack them for being reactionary either. After all, it's not their fault and merely a symptom of capitalism's hegemony over the human mind. :thumbdown:

[DasFapital]

I am not an anti-theist but I do note that I find it hard to reconcile a religion such as Christianity with a pro-choice stance or accepting the existence of other belief systems. However, I ultimately think banning religion would be about as useful as banning drugs.