Box Politics

[The Machine]

I really enjoy discussing politics, and I think there are a lot of valuable discussions to be had on here but the main thing holding the quality of discussion on this site back, in my opinion, is what I call box politics. Leftists love to categorize the fuck out of everything. The causes they support, what they're against, their tendency, everything is organized neatly into little boxes. When things don't quite fit neatly into these boxes, they don't know what the fuck to do. For example, one thread that probably got closed was a thread on subculture discrimination. It had the potential to actual be a new and interesting discussion but instead one of the first responses was basically "HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST THAT THIS IS THE SAME AS RACISM!!!!" No one had suggested anything like that, but because the discussion didn't fit into the neat boxes of institutionalized Racism or Sexism it was shut down.
Likewise I think that people with outside the box politics are forced out by the nature of the discussions here. For example, I know a white boy who calls himself a Socialist-Secessionist. He basically thinks that a large centralized government can't accurately represent the class. Sure his politics are out there, but he's an intelligent guy who would make a good poster. However, I guarantee you he would be labeled a racist on here, not for any actual racism but just because he calls himself a secessionist.
The frequency of bannings on here combined with the uptight mentality of box politics is the reason why thought provoking, interesting posters get banned with regularity to the point where the people who will dominate the conversation on here won't be the most interesting or intelligent posters but the ones who are best at following the rules. Personally, I'd rather see a lot of controversial posters with out of the box politics than another fucking 15 year old with a Mao avatar and a hard on with no place to put it.

[roy]

strongly agree on mao avatars

[PC LOAD LETTER]

Actually there was a self-proclaimed secessionist a week or three ago who was banned after like 4 posts

[#FF0000]

Yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyup.

[Althusser]

I remember that subculture discrimination thread which I believe had a poll. The "HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST THAT THIS IS THE SAME AS RACISM!!!!" type comments came out because it was suggested that it was somehow as bad or as detrimental as racism. I'm going to go check if those comments were provoked. I remember posting in that thread.

I do agree on your point about sectarianism within the left. I made a thread about how pointless the squabbles between Marxist-Leninists and Trotskyists are. I suggested that all of their arguments have to do with the past and asked what people thought would be different between MLs and Trotskyists, when dealing with carrying out future revolutionary action. It was shot down almost immediately by some people things along the lines of "You just don't understand the issues and inherent incompatibility of the two ideologies."

Obviously, no actual examples were provided.

Also, Mao's not a big fan favorite here. You must be new.

[The Machine]

I actually like sectarianism. Makes for good debates and one liners, plus I fucking hate the pan-leftist united front lets all just get along motherfuckers more than anyone.
My main complaint is the nature of the discourse here combined with a ban and restriction happy BA drives intelligent and interesting people who would contribute away to the point where it just becomes a contest of who can toe the party line the best.

[hatzel]

drives intelligent and interesting people who would contribute away

Well at least we're still here, brah :cool:

[Crux]

I really enjoy discussing politics, and I think there are a lot of valuable discussions to be had on here but the main thing holding the quality of discussion on this site back, in my opinion, is what I call box politics. Leftists love to categorize the fuck out of everything. The causes they support, what they're against, their tendency, everything is organized neatly into little boxes. When things don't quite fit neatly into these boxes, they don't know what the fuck to do. For example, one thread that probably got closed was a thread on subculture discrimination. It had the potential to actual be a new and interesting discussion but instead one of the first responses was basically "HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST THAT THIS IS THE SAME AS RACISM!!!!" No one had suggested anything like that, but because the discussion didn't fit into the neat boxes of institutionalized Racism or Sexism it was shut down.
Likewise I think that people with outside the box politics are forced out by the nature of the discussions here. For example, I know a white boy who calls himself a Socialist-Secessionist. He basically thinks that a large centralized government can't accurately represent the class. Sure his politics are out there, but he's an intelligent guy who would make a good poster. However, I guarantee you he would be labeled a racist on here, not for any actual racism but just because he calls himself a secessionist.
The frequency of bannings on here combined with the uptight mentality of box politics is the reason why thought provoking, interesting posters get banned with regularity to the point where the people who will dominate the conversation on here won't be the most interesting or intelligent posters but the ones who are best at following the rules. Personally, I'd rather see a lot of controversial posters with out of the box politics than another fucking 15 year old with a Mao avatar and a hard on with no place to put it.
Oh you rrrrradical. How will us regular posters ever be as interesting or intelligent as your white secessionist friends?

[The Machine]

Well at least we're still here, brah :cool:

http://theevanstonian.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/ist2_2989270-3d-clock-ticking-fast-ntsc.jpg

[Brosa Luxemburg]

Oh you rrrrradical. How will us regular posters ever be as interesting or intelligent as your white secessionist friends?

Be as condescending as you want, he brought up some good points. Of course, you are a mod. so you have to disagree I guess...

[The Machine]

Oh you rrrrradical. How will us regular posters ever be as interesting or intelligent as your white secessionist friends?

hey it would be a bit more of a realistic goal for your Committee to focus on finding the answer to that question rather than forming a workers international. one step at a time, feemeh?

[GPDP]

Am I the only one who thought this thread was gonna be about the politics of boxing? Talk about corruption in sports, I tell ya. But what do you expect when so much money is thrown around?

[Book O'Dead]

However, I guarantee you he would be labeled a racist on here, not for any actual racism but just because he calls himself a secessionist.

"secessionist"?

From what?

If you;re referring to some punkinhead who believes that the break up or division of a country is advantageous to the proletariat, then my recommendation is that you place that fellow into a box and sink him in the ocean.

[Crux]

Be as condescending as you want, he brought up some good points. Of course, you are a mod. so you have to disagree I guess...
yes, clearly we are too harsh on sexism and racism. I'll bring this up to the other mods immedietly

[Brosa Luxemburg]

yes, clearly we are too harsh on sexism and racism. I'll bring this up to the other mods immedietly

Yeah, because that is totally what I said. Thank you for being mature about a thread that calmly and rationally critiqued the moderators and administrators without singling out anyone and without being hostile. Honestly, I was looking forward to a mod. or admin. reply to this because I thought it would be a reply in similar fashion. Apparently I was wrong...

EDIT: The "that is what I said" was sarcastic btw.

[Crux]

Yeah, because that is totally what I said. Thank you for being mature about a thread that calmly and rationally critiqued the moderators and administrators without singling out anyone and without being hostile. Honestly, I was looking forward to a mod. or admin. reply to this because I thought it would be a reply in similar fashion. Apparently I was wrong...

EDIT: The "that is what I said" was sarcastic btw.
the "too harsh on sexism and racism" was also sarcastic. We must be reading different OP's then because to me it sounds like he thinks the mod team don't let enough "controversial" posters through. Must be that darn box politics.

[PC LOAD LETTER]

The notion of southern secession can't exist outside of a racist position. If you're for socialism in a small geographic area, or for small geographic areas to be seized as stepping stones to a global revolution, then it's redundant as this is already covered by existing tendencies and theories. The entire secession movement is specifically based around racism ...

Like someone else said, all you'd be accomplishing is creating a division in the working class.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

the "too harsh on sexism and racism" was also sarcastic. We must be reading different OP's then because to me it sounds like he thinks the mod team don't let enough "controversial" posters through. Must be that darn box politics.

Yeah, we must be understanding what the OP said differently.

[The Douche]

You're a pretty bad troll, OP, you rarely make me laugh.

[The Machine]

yes, clearly we are too harsh on sexism and racism

yes thats exactly what im saying

[The Machine]

You're a pretty bad troll, OP, you rarely make me laugh.

You're a pretty bad admin, cmoney, you make me laugh a lot.

[The Douche]

You're a pretty bad admin, cmoney, you make me laugh a lot.

Ok, I chuckled at that. But it might just be cause I'm high.

[Crux]

You're a pretty bad admin, cmoney, you make me laugh a lot.
Oh snap!

[Crux]

yes thats exactly what im saying
"Don't box me in, bro." So, sir, is your box to your satisfaction? Or do you feel a bit too constricted? If so, sir, we've got this other box with considerably more leg room on account of us having taken the bottom out. Or perhaps you would prefer a sandbox? There are many options here at Revleft Forum and Boxes inc.

[The Machine]

and I'm the troll

[Crux]

and I'm the troll
So what response were you trolling, I'm sorry, looking for?

[The Machine]

how about a polite, or at least somewhat serious one? the only joke you have yet to make is a pussy joke, and im assuming the only reason you haven't is because of the language barrier.

there are plenty of posts of mine on this forum where you could have accused me of trolling, maybe legitimately. this is not one of them. in fact the only people trolling in this thread are you and cmoney. all my op does is put forth a (imo) legitimate problem in the discourse here that seems to resonate with a good chunk of people. the only people being douchey about it are you and cmoney.

i'm guessing you havent read the op, so let me sum it up for you tldr style: "hey posters, stop being so quick to label yourselves and each other. hey ba, stop so banning so many people". can you respond to that in a manner thats not so dismissive or are you gonna keep being a dick?

[Crux]

how about a polite, or at least somewhat serious one? the only joke you have yet to make is a pussy joke, and im assuming the only reason you haven't is because of the language barrier.

there are plenty of posts of mine on this forum where you could have accused me of trolling, maybe legitimately. this is not one of them. in fact the only people trolling in this thread are you and cmoney. all my op does is put forth a (imo) legitimate problem in the discourse here that seems to resonate with a good chunk of people. the only people being douchey about it are you and cmoney.

i'm guessing you havent read the op, so let me sum it up for you tldr style: "hey posters, stop being so quick to label yourselves and each other. hey ba, stop so banning so many people". can you respond to that in a manner thats not so dismissive or are you gonna keep being a dick?
a pussy joke? You mean like a cat playing the piano? Me no understand. Okay so you wanted serious, how's this for serious: please do explain the relation between "labels" like sexism, homophobia and racism and the kind of intelligent and interesting "controversial" posters you see unjustifiably banned. Obviously by "boxes" you mean how to intepret what is a discriminatory and reactionary position and what is just "controversial outside of the box" thinking. So go ahead, stop being a martyr and clarify yourself. Unless of course clarification is just thinking inside the box too. I mean here I am asking you define what your problem with definitions are...but go right ahead. Your friend, the white, secessionist you worry might get banned or restricted what in his politics makes you think he would? And what makes you think he shouldn't? I'll get into the subculture thread later when I am at a computer.

[The Machine]

im bumping this to remind myself to respond when i have time

[The Douche]

how about a polite, or at least somewhat serious one? the only joke you have yet to make is a pussy joke, and im assuming the only reason you haven't is because of the language barrier.

there are plenty of posts of mine on this forum where you could have accused me of trolling, maybe legitimately. this is not one of them. in fact the only people trolling in this thread are you and cmoney. all my op does is put forth a (imo) legitimate problem in the discourse here that seems to resonate with a good chunk of people. the only people being douchey about it are you and cmoney.

i'm guessing you havent read the op, so let me sum it up for you tldr style: "hey posters, stop being so quick to label yourselves and each other. hey ba, stop so banning so many people". can you respond to that in a manner thats not so dismissive or are you gonna keep being a dick?

I'm not being a douche, if I was being a douche I'd lock this thread or something.

I laughed at this thread because, if you want my honest opinion, most people here don't have cookie-cutter politics because they don't have enough knowledge, and, especially, don't have enough experience to have cookie-cutter politics.

[The Machine]

id argue that there's a type of cookie cutter politics, or at least an attitude, that's unique to revleft

e: im not arguing against cookie cutter politics, per se, but cookie cutter discussions

[Brosa Luxemburg]

Ok, I chuckled at that. But it might just be cause I'm high.

:redstar2000::tongue_smilie:

[The Douche]

id argue that there's a type of cookie cutter politics, or at least an attitude, that's unique to revleft

I totally think there is an attitude which is unique to revleft. Mainly one of immaturity.

[The Machine]

not like the good kind tho

[The Douche]

not like the good kind tho

If I wanted to be subjected to dick jokes and talk about how tough people are I'd have stayed in the army.

There is also immaturity regarding other issues, but I don't have anything witty to say about them.

[The Machine]

soldiers and communists are pretty much the same demographic sexually frustrated white 18 to 22 year old males with fucked up home lives. it kind of comes with the territory

[Crux]

soldiers and revleft are pretty much the same demographic sexually frustrated white 18 to 22 year old males with fucked up home lives. it kind of comes with the territory
fix'd.

[wsg1991]

soldiers and communists are pretty much the same demographic sexually frustrated white 18 to 22 year old males with fucked up home lives. it kind of comes with the territory

*sexually frustrated (fucking conservative society , ) check
*fuck up home lives (financial troubles with my dad)check
*fuck up study ( failing this year , i have a control exam in 2 July , and it's virtually impossible to pass it ) check
* age 20 check


goddamn it ! that was too accurate

[Comrade Samuel]

I would agree with this to some degree, there have definitely been a few bans I've disagreed with and sometimes it's easy to be narrow minded and play into secratarisnism, act like an immature kid and engage in all sorts of fuckery but as far as inteligent conversation goes this is one of the few places many of us can ever have any.

Sure we all have about 101 reasons to fight and it is true that often people with far out views do have to taste the ban hammer but I would still say this is a fairly politicaly diverse website (especially with OI which if this site wasn't based out of Germany I would suggest we let fascists in and tell them why they are the stupidest people alive) but reguardless without revleft alot of us are pretty much isolated in a sea of capitalists and idiots and would become very discouraged.

[The Douche]

soldiers and communists are pretty much the same demographic sexually frustrated white 18 to 22 year old males with fucked up home lives. it kind of comes with the territory

Soldiers and communists are totally not the same demographic, well, not combat soldiers anyways.

I've been a communist for a considerable ammount of time, and have met very few who have a similar personality to mine.

[Crux]

im bumping this to remind myself to respond when i have time
So when will that be? Because you did want a serious response...right?

[Crux]

So when will that be? Because you did want a serious response...right?
I'm guessing the answer is: "no".

[wsg1991]

Ok, I chuckled at that. But it might just be cause I'm high.

who the hell is this guy ? where is cmoney ??

[Crux]

who the hell is this guy ? where is cmoney ??
We had him replaced. He was being too nice to the inmates...err I mean...to the forum members.