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campesino
7th June 2012, 14:53
I was reading Murray Bookchin's Listen, Marxist and this quote got me thinking

first quote
The process of class decomposition must be understood in all its dimensions. The word "process" must be emphasized here: the traditional classes do not disappear, nor for that matter does class struggle. Only a social revolution could remove the prevailing class structure and the conflict engenders. The point is the traditional class struggle ceases to have revolutionary implications; it reveals itself as the physiology of the prevailing society, not as the labor pains of birth. In fact the traditional class struggle stabilizes capitalist society by "correcting" its abuses (in wages, hours, inflation, employment, etc.). The unions in capitalist society constitute themselves into a counter-"monopoly" to the industrial monopolies and are incorporated into the neomercantile statified econnomy as an estate. Within this estate there are lesser or greater conflicts, but taken as a whole the unions strengthen the system and serve to perpetuate it.

To reinforce this class structure by babbling about the "role of the working class," to reinforce the traditional class struggle by imputing a "revolutionary" content to it, to infect the new revolutionary movement of our time with "workeritis" is reactionary to the core. How often do the Marxian doctrinaires have to be reminded that the history of the class struggle is the history of a disease, of the wounds opened by the famous "social question," of man's one-sided development in trying to gain control over nature by dominating his fellow man? If the byproduct of this disease has been technological advance, the main products have been repression, a horrible shedding of human blood and a terrifying distortion of the human psyche.

second quote
One becomes, in short, what the worker at his most caricaturized worst: not a "petty bourgeois degenerate," to be sure, but a bourgeois degenerate. One becomes an imitation of the worker insofar as the worker is an imitation of his masters. Beneath the metamorphosis of the student into the "worker" lies a vicious cynicism. One tries to use the discipline inculcated by the factory milieu to discipline the worker to the party milieu. One tries to use the worker's respect for the industrial hierarchy to wed to worker to the party hierarchy. This disgusting process, which if successful could lead only to the substitution of one hierarchy for another, is achieved by pretending to be concerned with the worker's economic day-to-day demands. Even Marxian theory is degraded to accord with this debased image of the worker. (See almost any copy of Challenge--the National Enquirer of the left. Nothing bores the worker more than this kind of literature.) In the end, the worker is shrewd enough to know what he will get better results in the day-to-day class struggle through his union bureaucracy than through a Marxian party bureaucracy. The forties revealed this so dramatically that within a year or two, with hardly any protest from the rank-and-file, unions succeeded in kicking out by the thousands "Marxians" who had done spade-work in the labor movement for more than a decade, even rising to the top leadership of the old CIO internationals.

The worker becomes a revolutionary not by becoming more of a worker but by undoing his "workerness." And in this he is not alone; the same applies to the farmer, the student, the clerk, the soldier, the bureaucrat, the professional--and the Marxist. The worker is no less a "bourgeois" than the farmer, student, clerk, soldier, bureaucrat, professional--and Marxist. His "workerness" is the disease he is suffering from, the social affliction telescoped to individual dimensions. Lenin understood this in What Is to Be Done? but he smuggled in the old hierarchy under a red flag and some revolutionary verbiage. The worker begins to become a revolutionary when he undoes his "workerness,"

should the cause be something greater than class struggle. is class struggle going to lead to communism? instead of class struggle maybe humanism or something else.

please respond to Murray Bookchin's quotes and my ideas separately, because I might be misinterpreting him wrongly, and I want criticism of both.

ed miliband
7th June 2012, 14:57
The first point to consider is how we decide that one class rather than others has the potential to be revolutionary. Why does the communist strategy for revolution base itself on the (existing) economic struggles of the working class? After all, lots of other people suffer from the present system (Capitalism), such as poor peasants, street vendors etc.

The answer is that when workers need to defend their living standards, their immediate response is to struggle, together with their workmates, against the capitalists who employ them. The immediate response of, say, a street vendor would be to either raise their prices (creating a conflict with their customers, including workers), or alternatively to lower them and undercut the other vendors.

What is distinctive about the workers therefore is that they have an inbuilt and immediate tendency both to conflict with the capitalists and to collective action with other workers (at least in the same factory or same industry - but the potential is there for it to spread). We believe that this already existing conflict (which can never be got rid of by capitalism) is the seed out of which a revolutionary movement can grow. Naturally, this "seed" will have to grow immensely, but there's no other "seed" to rival it.

http://www.prole.info/texts/whatstheworkingclass.html

ed miliband
7th June 2012, 15:02
also - humanism implies there is one unified humanity, rather than a humanity divided into classes; which side of this divide are you on?

Sasha
7th June 2012, 15:37
It should be expanded to include everyone in the "imaginary party" that's pitted against "empire"; http://www.revleft.com/vb/tiqqun-introduction-civil-t171513/index.html ;)

Ocean Seal
7th June 2012, 15:40
I was reading Murray Bookchin's Listen, Marxist and this quote got me thinking

should the cause be something greater than class struggle. is class struggle going to lead to communism? instead of class struggle maybe humanism or something else.

This should not be your concern. Your concern should be waging class struggle, not what it eventually leads to.

Dean
7th June 2012, 15:48
There can be humanism when classes cease to live in conflict. Of course class struggle isn't the thing worth fighting for.

campesino
7th June 2012, 19:25
also - humanism implies there is one unified humanity, rather than a humanity divided into classes; which side of this divide are you on?

I wish humanity was divided by classes, but the truth is race and national origin divides people more strongly than relation to the means of production, even reformist and conservative political positions divide people better than the Marxist definition of class. this is not the fault of Karl Marx, but of capitalism and its emphasis on dividing people on anything else beside Marxist definition of class.


http://www.prole.info/texts/whatstheworkingclass.html

the capitalist have replaced the worker's struggle, with intra-worker's competition. If the worker's tendency to conflict with the capitalist was real, the revolution would have happened long ago.

what I am saying is to call for another definition of the revolutionary, a definition that will encompass, all anti-capitalist, in union to make a communist world. it would still include many working class, but it would not be exclusively working class.

working class is an odd word now, how many factory workers would betray their fellow workers for a promotion, how many wish to become capitalist. We can attribute this fact to false consciousness or we can accept, that the workers or anybody else have to renounce their relation to capitalism to overthrow it. Maybe it shouldn't be the working class that unites, but something else.
again, these are not my permanent views, But I would like some responses.

Tim Finnegan
7th June 2012, 20:27
Bookchin's criticisms of cultural "workerism" is valid, but he goes altogether too far by abandoning the working class as the revolutionary subject. He seems to be under the impression that our choice is between a crusty old Second International positivism, working-class-as-thing, or abandoning a class struggle perspective altogether. (Presumably this is a legacy of his own time in Stalinist and later Trotskyist circles.) This isn't all that unusual given the era he was writing, and at the time somebody can be forgiven for attempting to find a greater revolutionary potential among students, peasants, radicals, whoever, than among a seemingly placid working class. However, from our vantage, or indeed from the vantage of someone only ten, even five years later, it is apparent that none of these substitute-subjects was going to cut it, while the apparent placidity of the working class was the exception, rather than a new rule. It is possible to approach the May '68 uprising from a "post-worker" perspective, but the same cannot be said of the Hot Autumn or the Winter of Discontent.