SYRIZA member says the Steelworkers strike should be outlawed

[Delenda Carthago]

The capitalist puergo Manesis, owner of the Greek Steelworks corp., managed to outlaw the strike of the steelworkers after 220 days!!!

BGpBIgNeBL0

In this video, Alexis Mitropoulos, a big time member of SYRIZA, exPASOK member, says that the strike was a big and honest fight of the strikers, but now the laws have to be applied.

Thats who SYRIZA is. So we dont get it confused.

[Sasha]

Excluding maybe DNZ no one here I think hold any illusions about SYRIZA (we restrict reformists for a reason) the debate is merely whether the KKE is as bad or worse...

[blake 3:17]

? I don't know Greek and don't understand the video at all.

[Welshy]

Is there a version of this video with english subtitles? Because there are some ISO people who are really pushing SYRIZA on facebook and I want to throw this in the face.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Excluding maybe DNZ no one here I think hold any illusions about SYRIZA (we restrict reformists for a reason) the debate is merely whether the KKE is as bad or worse...

Um, did I not say that SYRIZA is a Continental-style bourgeois worker party to begin with? :glare:

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Um, did I not say that SYRIZA is a Continental-style bourgeois worker party to begin with? :glare:

Boutgeois workers party?

[Die Neue Zeit]

It's the term Engels used to describe certain political groups back in the day, and also the term Lenin used to describe the Labour party. Of course, Labour wasn't and isn't a Continental-style bourgeois worker party:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/lesser-two-evils-t172262/index.html

[Le Socialiste]

Is there a version of this video with english subtitles? Because there are some ISO people who are really pushing SYRIZA on facebook and I want to throw this in the face.

Can't say I blame you, I've been concerned by the seemingly uncritical attitude many comrades within the ISO have had regarding Syriza's rise in the polls. I fear most of those praising the party have either too little experience (read: naive), or are in the process of gravitating further and further towards reformism as a means to an end.

My position is that Syriza's popularity represents a leftward turn for many workers, who are increasingly dissatisfied with the 'moral and social bankruptcy ' of the major establishment parties, but remain reluctant to abandon the ballot box altogether. Poor, struggling families and communities are finding it more and more difficult (if not impossible) to make ends meet, and growing disillusionment surrounding electoral strategies as a means of reversing this trend has served as a catalyst of sorts. The social tensions that permeate Greek society serve to push Syriza to the forefront as an alternative to PASOK and the KKE. We should view the situation in Greece with this taken into account: electoral politics can often serve as a barometer of public opinion, and Syriza's rise accurately depicts a deepening social awareness on the ground, despite its loyalty to the troika and austerity.

The left shouldn't hold any illusions about Syriza's intentions (I'm bothered by the fact that many within my organization seem to), but the party's popularity signifies a turn to the left that speaks to the sharpening social conflict engulfing entire swathes of the population. It doesn't mean the average person continues to have faith in the electoral system, but naturally points to the lessening clout elections will hold over the social arena.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Opposing and/or banning strikes is a proud tradition of communist and left-wing parties. ;)

[Geiseric]

I do think though that SYRIZA and KKE should form a united front over the memorandum, or at least a few things they can agree on should be done, including breaking from the EU and nationalising the greek economy.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I do think though that SYRIZA and KKE should form a united front over the memorandum, or at least a few things they can agree on should be done, including breaking from the EU and nationalising the greek economy.

I don't think that's SYRIZA's position (http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/jun2012/tsip-j06.shtml)

[Welshy]

Can't say I blame you, I've been concerned by the seemingly uncritical attitude many comrades within the ISO have had regarding Syriza's rise in the polls. I fear most of those praising the party have either too little experience (read: naive), or are in the process of gravitating further and further towards reformism as a means to an end.

The issue is that these are some people who have been in the ISO for like 10 years also the organization as a whole is pushing SYRIZA: http://socialistworker.org/2012/06/06/what-syriza-stands-for

[Geiseric]

I assume they'd be kicked out of the EU if they went through with their program. It actually sounds pretty good Welshy, i'd support that if I lived in greece.

[Welshy]

I assume they'd be kicked out of the EU if they went through with their program.

If it does actually seem like their membership in the EU would be threaten by implementing this program, then given their insistence on staying in EU they probably won't go through with it.



It actually sounds pretty good Welshy, i'd support that if I lived in greece.

I'm not terribly surprised since you have shown time and time again on here that your politics are really nothing more left social democracy.

[Geiseric]

Well what would you change about it? And how am I a "Left Social Democrat,"? And what defines a "Left Social Democrat,"?

[ВАЛТЕР]

Anybody find an English translation for this? I want to shove in the faces of some reformist assclowns.

[Delenda Carthago]

Anybody find an English translation for this? I want to shove in the faces of some reformist assclowns.
Google translate this
http://vathikokkino.com/2012/06/%CE%BF-%CE%B2%CE%BF%CF%85%CE%BB%CE%B5%CF%85%CF%84%CE%AE%C F%82-%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%85-%CF%83%CF%85%CF%81%CE%B9%CE%B6%CE%B1-%CE%BC%CE%B7%CF%84%CF%81%CF%8C%CF%80%CE%BF%CF%85%C E%BB%CE%BF%CF%82-%CE%BA%CE%B1/

[Crux]

Let me just say that I do, critically, support SYRIZA and I do support a vote for them tomorrow, but even if they were to win this is merely the beginning of a new stage in the struggle. And much like in latin american countries where reformist governments have come to power, like Venezuela, Ecuador, Bolivia etc the struggle will also be against the government. Sometimes in order to push them in a certain direction, sometimes in direct conflict.

[Lev Bronsteinovich]

If it does actually seem like their membership in the EU would be threaten by implementing this program, then given their insistence on staying in EU they probably won't go through with it.

Exactly. Syriza's program of staying in the EU, IMO, places them on the wrong side of the class line (no comments about being "practical" please). The real crisis in for the Greek working class is the lack of revolutionary leadership. The ICL is pushing critical support for the KKE -- I am not sure about that one, even though they mean CRITICAL support. That the SWP and it's allies are pushing Syriza comes as no surprise, really. I mean if Obama's election was "transformative" -- what superlatives would they have for left social democrats being elected in Greece?

[Delenda Carthago]

Let me just say that I do, critically, support SYRIZA and I do support a vote for them tomorrow, but even if they were to win this is merely the beginning of a new stage in the struggle. And much like in latin american countries where reformist governments have come to power, like Venezuela, Ecuador, Bolivia etc the struggle will also be against the government. Sometimes in order to push them in a certain direction, sometimes in direct conflict.
Thats the good scenario. The bad one says that SYRIZA betrays the people's trust and in 6 months freikorps are running the streets with the fully support of the people.

[Crux]

Exactly. Syriza's program of staying in the EU, IMO, places them on the wrong side of the class line (no comments about being "practical" please). The real crisis in for the Greek working class is the lack of revolutionary leadership. The ICL is pushing critical support for the KKE -- I am not sure about that one, even though they mean CRITICAL support. That the SWP and it's allies are pushing Syriza comes as no surprise, really. I mean if Obama's election was "transformative" -- what superlatives would they have for left social democrats being elected in Greece?
actual the greek IST, the SEK, have come out against supporting SYRIZA, on a similar though less overtly sectarian
basis as the KKE. It's very interesting considering how their sister parties tend to operate. I have to say I think Worker's Power came out with a rather good statement too. Re Delenda carthago, yes this certainly is an issue the question is how do we relate to it? In my opinion this is a time where we, meaning the revolutionary left, must intervene concretely in the movement, not just with abstract condemnation from the side lines. Given how much the KKE leadership has invested in their current tactic where SYRIZA is just PASOK mark 2 and even dubbed the "main enemy" I don't think a future split is entirely unlikely. But suppose you are right, SYRIZA sells out it's program, it's rank and file, sells out the masses that have rallied to them, first thing in the morning after having formed a government. I don't find it the most likely scenario, but suppose this is how it goes down, what then? The KKE can point and say "look how fooled the masses were, we were right all along.". So? That's hardly any strategy forward. But if the Freikorps run the streets some months down the line I'll see you on the barricades in the International Brigades, comrade. Hell even if SYRIZA does everything right a coup is not off the table.

[Thirsty Crow]

But suppose you are right, SYRIZA sells out it's program, it's rank and file, sells out the masses that have rallied to them, first thing in the morning after having formed a government. I don't find it the most likely scenario, but suppose this is how it goes down, what then?
But is another scenario more likely - the the troika and Germany will cave in and reverse the austerity program? Can this program be abandoned even in its prolonged and "softened" versions? Do PS in France represent a possible pole for such a political alliance? Is there even most basic political will to halt austerity, rhetoric about "growth" aside?

I mean, the gist of the above is that, IMO, two planks of the Syriza programme - rejecting ("renegoitating" terms) austerity and remaining in the Eurozone now seem mutually exclusive.

[Crux]

But is another scenario more likely - the the troika and Germany will cave in and reverse the austerity program? Can this program be abandoned even in its prolonged and "softened" versions? Do PS in France represent a possible pole for such a political alliance? Is there even most basic political will to halt austerity, rhetoric about "growth" aside?

I mean, the gist of the above is that, IMO, two planks of the Syriza programme - rejecting ("renegoitating" terms) austerity and remaining in the Eurozone now seem mutually exclusive.
and when push comes to shove they will have to make a choice on that. From what I can tell, they will come down on the right side of that. The split off of the Democratic Left was a good thing. I may have said so before but I was down in greece last spring and did have the opportunity to meet leading SYRIZA member, not Tsipras though. When they say they think the EU establishment are bluffing they are being genuine. Theirs is, at least that was the impression I got, one of extreme naivitee. Dangerous and foolish to be sure, but one also has to remember this is not the only position within SYRIZA or indeed within SYN.

[A Marxist Historian]

This link below doesn't have anything about SYRIZA's scabbery vs. the steel strike, instead it's a call for solidarity with this very important strike and a report on the strike from a team of Spartacists visiting the strikers and talking to them. Also, it says how to send badly needed money in their support.

http://www.icl-fi.org/english/wv/1005/greek-steel.html

-M.H.-