Pedo-Bear

[ArseCynic]

when pedophila is completely voluntary and were both people have past pubessance, Is it bad?

Are the "Pedos" the most discriminated people in our sexually-puritan society?

discuss.

[Pretty Flaco]

people that are pedophiles need treatment. if they act on their sexual tensions then they can scar and harm a child for life.

[ArseCynic]

people that are pedophiles need treatment. if they act on their sexual tensions then they can scar and harm a child for life.

If it's not violent and the child(mind you pubessant) equallity participates and the whole thing is voluntary, then there is no harm. they would be "scarred" in the sense that the society tells them that they should feel "scarred".

[Art Vandelay]

My long term girlfriend and I got together in high school, we are two years apart in age. For a good portion of our relationship, until recently, she has been a minor while I am legally an adult. We have been sexually active for a couple years; Am I a pedophile?

[Hiero]

My long term girlfriend and I got together in high school, we are two years apart in age. For a good portion of our relationship, until recently, she has been a minor while I am legally an adult. We have been sexually active for a couple years; Am I a pedophile?

No.

And what ArseCynic is doing is what occurs on this forum every few months. Someone makes the ridiculousu claim that pedophiles are the "most discriminated people". The original poster starts off on the brink of pedophilia (saying things like post pubescent) but s/he will lead it into very dangerous places. What ArseCynic will allude to is that adult and child sexual relations are ok and can be voluntary, if the thread lasts that long.

Arsecynic is just baiting people to agree with their sick opinions.

[Pretty Flaco]

My long term girlfriend and I got together in high school, we are two years apart in age. For a good portion of our relationship, until recently, she has been a minor while I am legally an adult. We have been sexually active for a couple years; Am I a pedophile?

no. i dont know about where you live, but thats perfectly legal where i live. i dont think theres anything wrong with "society saying" adults having sex with children is wrong.

[Zav]

when pedophila is completely voluntary and were both people have past pubessance, Is it bad?

Are the "Pedos" the most discriminated people in our sexually-puritan society?

discuss.
Pedophilia isn't voluntary. One doesn't choose to be sexually attracted children.
What you are asking is whether pubescent minors can consent to sex. In most places they legally cannot, however they can consent to sex with each other in many of not most places. There is no reason why exploitation is more likely to occur between an older and younger person than two+ younger people. No, I do not consider sex between an adult and a minor who understands the concept of sex and its risks and decides to have some to be bad. In fact, like all sex, it's generally healthy, and thus good. Sex without this understanding and consent (in the literal sense, not the legal one) is rape, as it is at any age, and is highly unethical.

Indeed pedophiles, hebephiles, ephebophiles, etcetera are highly discriminated against, and there are no laws protecting them, however I think murderers are discriminated against more, not to say that the former are equal to the latter. A poor black pedophilic murderer who is a bisexual transwoman, works as a prostitute and struggles with depression and drug addiction wins the prize for most discriminated against.

Yes, many of you will disagree with me. Deal with it.

[Hiero]

No, I do not consider sex between an adult and a minor who understands the concept of sex It is not about just understanding sex, but understanding power.

A person can visit a psychologist and that person can have a clear understanding about sex. That person can develop a relationship with the pyschologist, which is a mistake about the relationship, that the admiration for the psychologist is based on power imbalance, the creation of the modern discourses of power that is modern psycholology. If the person moves on this emotions and tries to initiate sex, it is on the pyschologist to be the moral person and decline. They do not have the defense that the person understands sex.

How does this relate to minors and adults? The same way, minors may understand the concept of sex, but they really lack an understanding around discourse of power. The adult will use "they know about sex" as an excuse, but they mask the power imablance that is part of the wider power imbalance between children and adults. These lines do blur alot, for instance a 15 yeard old and 18 year old, or a 30 year old and 16 year old. It is realy hard to tell in thoose instances.

With Pedophilia there is no instance where a child (a prebuescent minor) can understand sex and power. A pubescent child is coming away of sex through their own biological changes, but a 12-13 year old does not understand the full discourses of power that adults opperate in. The adult is always the perpetrator because they are aware of this power.

[Hermes]

Could you define what you mean by power? I see no reason why the adult has to have more 'power' in the relationship than the child, so long as the relationship is a healthy one.

[ArseCynic]

It is not about just understanding sex, but understanding power.

A person can visit a psychologist and that person can have a clear understanding about sex. That person can develop a relationship with the pyschologist, which is a mistake about the relationship, that the admiration for the psychologist is based on power imbalance, the creation of the modern discourses of power that is modern psycholology. If the person moves on this emotions and tries to initiate sex, it is on the pyschologist to be the moral person and decline. They do not have the defense that the person understands sex.

How does this relate to minors and adults? The same way, minors may understand the concept of sex, but they really lack an understanding around discourse of power. The adult will use "they know about sex" as an excuse, but they mask the power imablance that is part of the wider power imbalance between children and adults. These lines do blur alot, for instance a 15 yeard old and 18 year old, or a 30 year old and 16 year old. It is realy hard to tell in thoose instances.

With Pedophilia there is no instance where a child (a prebuescent minor) can understand sex and power. A pubescent child is coming away of sex through their own biological changes, but a 12-13 year old does not understand the full discourses of power that adults opperate in. The adult is always the perpetrator because they are aware of this power.

So no matter what the adult, by simply being older and physically stronger and with more experience, will be taking advantage of the younger person?

So younger people cannot understand sex and love and cannot love older people? I have met many children under 12 who are very intelligent people, I know one which has a complete grasp on Marxism.

[Zav]

It is not about just understanding sex, but understanding power.

A person can visit a psychologist and that person can have a clear understanding about sex. That person can develop a relationship with the pyschologist, which is a mistake about the relationship, that the admiration for the psychologist is based on power imbalance, the creation of the modern discourses of power that is modern psycholology. If the person moves on this emotions and tries to initiate sex, it is on the pyschologist to be the moral person and decline. They do not have the defense that the person understands sex.
That is a social taboo, and usually the shrink would decline, but what happens when the shrink is also attracted to the client? This isn't really a good analogy, because here the person with less social power initiates the relationship. That would seem to support my point of view more than yours.


How does this relate to minors and adults? The same way, minors may understand the concept of sex, but they really lack an understanding around discourse of power. The adult will use "they know about sex" as an excuse, but they mask the power imablance that is part of the wider power imbalance between children and adults. These lines do blur alot, for instance a 15 yeard old and 18 year old, or a 30 year old and 16 year old. It is realy hard to tell in thoose instances.

With Pedophilia there is no instance where a child (a prebuescent minor) can understand sex and power. A pubescent child is coming away of sex through their own biological changes, but a 12-13 year old does not understand the full discourses of power that adults opperate in. The adult is always the perpetrator because they are aware of this power.
So when a person turns 18, they magically gain an advanced theoretical knowledge of the nature of power? Why would an adult necessarily have this power over a minor, and what exactly is it? Furthermore, if a relationship cannot exist when there is a power imbalance of some kind, why do police, politicians, doctors, etc. form relationships with people with less social power? I highly doubt that anyone thinks they shouldn't.
I fully understood sex when I was 12, and was reading Kropotkin and Chomsky at 14. I certainly understood both sex and power as a minor. If I fell in love with an adult (I actually did then, btw), I could certainly initiate a relationship with this person.

[ArseCynic]

And yes, I am trying to get people to agree with my view on this. I feel that it is a problem(pedo discrimination) which is rooted very deeply into our societal and social systems.

[Hermes]

I'd also like to add that if there is some scientific point at which the 'average' child acquires an understanding of 'power' (Zav also brought this up, so I'm really only adding a bit to the point he made), then why is it so incredibly different in so many different countries?

Don't you think that if they'd determined at what age the majority become mature, then every country would follow that rule (at least the sane ones)?

[Hiero]

The ultimate contradiction in all your arguements is that you are attacking a basis of power, that 'society' defines appropriate relations, while at the same time dismissing other forms of power, relationship between adults and children. You have completely skewed the actual relationships of power to fit your own personal opinions.

[Pretty Flaco]

the brain goes thru developmental stages. because of lack of development, sex can lead to psychological trauma. and really? denying that an adult has more power in a relationship with a child? i wish i still had my sociology textbook from the class i took last year so i could get some statistics for this bullshit.

[Ocean Seal]

when pedophila is completely voluntary and were both people have past pubessance, Is it bad?

Are the "Pedos" the most discriminated people in our sexually-puritan society?

discuss.
Yep those puritans who don't want 12/13 year olds having sex with adults. I'm sorry a child cannot consent to sex with an adult.

[ArseCynic]

The ultimate contradiction in all your arguements is that you are attacking a basis of power, that 'society' defines appropriate relations, while at the same time dismissing other forms of power, relationship between adults and children. You have completely skewed the actual relationships of power to fit your own personal opinions.


This is completely dodging our arguments.

-The society forces people into jails, into institutions, into hiding and into shame for their sexual tendencies which they do not choose.

-Relations between adults and children don't have to be inequal. to say otherwise is completely ageist.

[ArseCynic]

the brain goes thru developmental stages. because of lack of development, sex can lead to psychological trauma. and really? denying that an adult has more power in a relationship with a child? i wish i still had my sociology textbook from the class i took last year so i could get some statistics for this bullshit.

Yes there are average stages for cognitive development, but they are not set in stone nor do they mean a child cannot think logically.

An adult does have more power in terms of experience and physical strength but this does not mean that if they have relations with those below them in these areas that they will take advantage.

Psychology classes in western society(assuming we are both residing in the west) are completely unscientific, corrupted with psychiatry and capitalist "human nature" propaganda and is based on assumptions for the most part. I am taking it now.

[Pretty Flaco]

This is completely dodging our arguments.

-The society forces people into jails, into institutions, into hiding and into shame for their sexual tendencies which they do not choose.


they only go to prison if they act on those tendencies, which can only be proved with evidence of sexual trauma. so they would have had to rape/molest a kid to wind up there.

[Hiero]

This is completely dodging our arguments.

-The society forces people into jails, into institutions, into hiding and into shame for their sexual tendencies which they do not choose.

-Relations between adults and children don't have to be inequal. to say otherwise is completely ageist.

Your arguement? That if you find a 12 year old intelligent you should be able to have sex with them? What's your mode of measurement? Once they can do their 12x tables they are ready for handjobs, once they read Das Kaptal blowjobs?

[ArseCynic]

Yep those puritans who don't want 12/13 year olds having sex with adults. I'm sorry a child cannot consent to sex with an adult.

Why not?

[Pretty Flaco]

Psychology classes in western society(assuming we are both residing in the west) are completely unscientific, corrupted with psychiatry and capitalist "human nature" propaganda and is based on assumptions for the most part. I am taking it now.

i didnt take psychology. i took sociology, which has a branch known as conflcit theory, which is almost entirely adopted from marxism. in my class my teacher described the core fundamentals of marxism as well as dialectical materialism.

[ArseCynic]

they only go to prison if they act on those tendencies, which can only be proved with evidence of sexual trauma. so they would have had to rape/molest a kid to wind up there.

This is not true for one. If they are caught in the act or if the child tells another adult legal stuff usually starts to occur.

also, just because they can get away with it doesn't mean they aren't discriminated against. they are austricised in our society.

[Pretty Flaco]

This is not true for one. If they are caught in the act or if the child tells another adult legal stuff usually starts to occur.

also, just because they can get away with it doesn't mean they aren't discriminated against. they are austricised in our society.

and with a very good reason. give me one example of child-adult sexual relations which didn't end in any sort of trauma for the child.

[ArseCynic]

Your arguement? That if you find a 12 year old intelligent you should be able to have sex with them? What's your mode of measurement? Once they can do their 12x tables they are ready for handjobs, once they read Das Kaptal blowjobs?

You shouldn't have to measure. You are looking at this from a completely ageist perspective. cna you measure whether people at 18 are intelligent enough either? no. therefor there shouldn't be generalized years for the laws, I say the cut off should be whether the specific individual has sexually matured organs. (biologically, for biological purposes).

[Ocean Seal]

Why not?
Its a power relationship taken to the extreme. Children do not have an equivalent sexual consciousness to adults even if they are post pubescent. They don't understand the emotional consequences that arrive with sex, and although they have working genitals aren't exactly fully developed and its not right for adults to take advantage of that.

[Leftsolidarity]

they are austricised in our society.

Good. I'd rather not have child rapists and molesters nor their sympathizers running around doing whatever they please. Now go away troll.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

I think this is an important discussion to have... outside of Rev-Left...

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