So Who’s The Fascist Here?

[Klaatu]

So Who’s The Fascist Here?
By Alexander Cockburn
The Nation, May 21, 2012
Print edition excerpt



But there’s another aspect to this habit of flinging the charge of fascism at Europe, and that’s the simple matter of national hypocrisy. The mobs who flooded into the streets to revel in the execution of Osama bin Laden were not exulting in America, land of the free and of constitutional propriety. They were lauding brute, lawless, lethal force. In this year of political conventions we’ll be hearing a lot of tub-thumping about American freedoms, but if there’s any nation in the world that is well on the way to meriting the admittedly vague label of "fascist," surely it’s the United States.

Fascism, among other things, is a system of extreme, methodical state repression, violent in contour and threat, buttressed by ultra-nationalist mythology a militarist culture and imperial ambition. In the 1980s America started locking up its poor people. Seven million adults were under correctional supervision in 2009.

A fascist system uses constant harassment. Last year there were more than 600,000 stop-and-frisks in New York City, overwhelmingly of blacks and Hispanics. Historically, fascist regimes have been particularly cruel toward what is deemed to be sexual deviancy. US sex offender registries doom three-quarters of a million people—Many of them convicted on trumpery charges—to pale simulacra of real life. Others endure castration and open-ended incarceration.

Fascist regimes, ultimately the expression of corporate power, repress labor in all efforts to organize. The onslaught here began with Taft-Hartley in 1947 and continued with methodical ferocity during the Reagan and Clinton years. Obama reneged on pledges to make organizing easier, froze the wages of federal workers and advanced free trade across the globe. Attacks on collective bargaining are pervasive. Big money’s grip on both parties ensures corporate control no matter who’s nominally in charge. Fascist regimes show open contempt for democracy while deifying a leader who embodies the national spirit. We salute democracy while suppressing it.

A fascist regime is the sworn foe of the right to assembly, "unauthorized" marches and encampments. We’re sure to see more signs of this around the NATO summit and the national conventions. America is a network of SWAT teams and kindred state-employed thugs on permanent red alert.

A fascist regime spies obsessively on its citizens. Study US laws on secret surveillance since the Patriot Act and you will find procedures that would have been the envy of the East Germans. Ultimately a fascist state claims the right to imprison its victims without term or hope of redress or legal representation. As the executive power, in the form of the president, it claims the right to kill its enemies, whether citizens (Awlaki) or others (Guantanamo), without judicial review. In other words, rule by decree—which is what Hitler’s Enabling Act won him in March 1933.

We live in a fascist country— “proto-fascist” if you want to allay public disquiet, though there’s scant sign that most Americans are disturbed by the trends.

[ed miliband]

america isn't a fascist country, it isn't even a proto-fascist country, if it is then there is no meaningful definition of "fascist".

i'd go further and say it isn't necessarily even helpful to talk of "fascism" anymore (unless in reference to those who identify with the term), the far-right certainly, but i think fascism has to be understood within a particular historical context that no longer exists.

[Proukunin]

Could we call it a neo-liberal democracy? essentially that is what America is right? Fascist to me is a little bit nonsensical, I admit I don't FULLY understand the meaning of Fascism and what is considered or not considered Fascist..But I don't see mass deportations or concentration camps all over the country. I don't see blind youth following a leader and his demented ideas. I do however, see corruption, patriotism, abuse of power, surveillance society and oppression among the lower classes. But hasn't America always been that way? I don't think America has grown into some new "proto-fascist" state..I think it has been the same "democracy" that it has always been since the industrial revolution.

America is a two-party business state. With the Republicans and Democrats fighting over which policies are better for their business.

[cynicles]

Fasicsm doesn't require concentration camps or mass deportations, there were always variations between how extreme the different fascist governments were. Not all fascist societies are going to look like Nazi Germany.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

Fascist to me is a little bit nonsensical, I admit I don't FULLY understand the meaning of Fascism and what is considered or not considered Fascist..But I don't see mass deportations or concentration camps all over the country.

I don't think that's necessarily an intrinsic element of Fascism, I will point out that there are actually detainment camps in America, already built, staffed (using National Guard volunteers I believe) and ready. One could argue that, well those are FEMA camps for national disasters and so on which on paper is true, however I will also point out that the Nazis originally started sending the Jews to the concentration camps "for their own safety," after Kristallnacht to protect them "from the wrath of the German people." This was frankly admitted in the last writings of a senior SS officer.

I'm not saying America is on par with the Nazis exterminating Jews at the height of WWII but I am saying the apparatus is there.


America is a two-party business state. With the Republicans and Democrats fighting over which policies are better for their business.

I don't think that matters one bit in terms of this conversation. As Carlin so eloquently put it, it doesn't matter who you vote for, all they do is shuffle around the same shit every 4 years to make you think, your little ballot means a flying fuck in the grand scheme of things. The people don't even technically vote in the president, it's the electoral college.

I personally would be more inclined to describe America currently as a neo-liberal democracy (which is stiill a dictatorship) but I'm sure if I did a little more reading and investigating I could come with a valid argument regarding the OP but atm, I just say neo-liberal democracy. I think viewing this term "neo-liberal democracy," it's important to both look at the infrastructure of the given nation, look at the state control and authority, it's economics and also bare in mind that despite have a dog and pony election season, it's still a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie.

[ВАЛТЕР]

"Fascism" has become such a loose term that just about every state can be labelled as "fascist" for one reason or another. The left is partly to blame for it since we tend to throw the word around way too often. I've caught myself calling politicians fascists just for saying anything remotely pro-bourgeoisie, as I'm sure many others have. The term means nothing anymore. I think it is foolish to think fascism, in its classic form will ever exist again.

Is the United States a nationalist, imperialist, warmongering, aggressor? Yes, of course. Is it a fascist state? No.

However, just because the government isn't forcing labour movements and left-wing parties down directly doesn't mean that it isn't happening. Filling peoples minds with nationalist propaganda, anti-communist propaganda, and bourgeois ideas about what "freedom" is and is not does wonders. You won't be harassed by the police for declaring yourself a communist, they don't have to lift a finger. The people do all the work for them. You may be fired, ostracized, even physically attacked. Whether you like it or not, the left wing is a closeted bunch which lives in fear of being ostracized for their political positions. They are often forced to be sorry about being communists. They are mistrusted and disliked by the community for their politics. They are seen as traitors. Not because the state wages a war on them directly, but because the propaganda has done its damage and the public does all the work already.

I often think that we would become much stronger if left parties were banned. Since then we would have to take the fight to them and follow our politics on a more serious level if we felt threatened by the state.

[Bronco]

Am I the only one that finds it a bit strange how leftists on here will frequently throw around words like "liberal", "bourgeois" etc. even when they aren't accurate or appropriate but when it comes to "fascism" people suddenly start demanding really precise and specific definitions, and jump on anyone who accidentally misuses the term

[Comrade Jandar]

So Who’s The Fascist Here?
By Alexander Cockburn
The Nation, May 21, 2012
Print edition excerpt

Whoever this idiot is who wrote this has no idea what fascism is. He's simply using it as an epithet. Fascism is something very specific. Liberals tend to use the term as a catch-all phrase for when governments use totalitarian means to enforce order

Here's a definition of fascism by Anton Pannekoek that I particularly like.

"Fascism is the political system of big capitalism in emergency. It is not created by conscious premeditation; it sprang up, after much uncertain groping, as a practical deed, followed afterwards by theory."

[ed miliband]

Am I the only one that finds it a bit strange how leftists on here will frequently throw around words like "liberal", "bourgeois" etc. even when they aren't accurate or appropriate but when it comes to "fascism" people suddenly start demanding really precise and specific definitions, and jump on anyone who accidentally misuses the term

lol is this directed specifically at me? a) i don't identify as a "leftist" and b) find an example of me misusing "liberal" or "bourgeois"

[Klaatu]

To claim that the U.S. is "fascist" might be a bit premature, if you define fascism in a historical context.

My take on this is that, while the U.S. may not be fascist yet, mark my words, it is headed off the cliff in that direction.
If present trends continue, in twenty years, the US definitely will become a corporate dictatorship, perhaps even a fascist-like state.
This can happen if the people do not rise up and set things right!

Consider that Rome was a free republic for 300 years before the Caesars took power and turned it into a quasi-dictatorship.

Can't happen here? Anyone that doesn't think so had better wake up!


america isn't a fascist country, it isn't even a proto-fascist country, if it is then there is no meaningful definition of "fascist".

i'd go further and say it isn't necessarily even helpful to talk of "fascism" anymore (unless in reference to those who identify with the term), the far-right certainly, but i think fascism has to be understood within a particular historical context that no longer exists.

I guess we will just have to use another moniker to describe what is coming our way. Call it anything you like... how about "The Mark of the Beast?"

[Proukunin]

I don't think that's necessarily an intrinsic element of Fascism, I will point out that there are actually detainment camps in America, already built, staffed (using National Guard volunteers I believe) and ready. One could argue that, well those are FEMA camps for national disasters and so on which on paper is true, however I will also point out that the Nazis originally started sending the Jews to the concentration camps "for their own safety," after Kristallnacht to protect them "from the wrath of the German people." This was frankly admitted in the last writings of a senior SS officer.

I'm not saying America is on par with the Nazis exterminating Jews at the height of WWII but I am saying the apparatus is there.



I don't think that matters one bit in terms of this conversation. As Carlin so eloquently put it, it doesn't matter who you vote for, all they do is shuffle around the same shit every 4 years to make you think, your little ballot means a flying fuck in the grand scheme of things. The people don't even technically vote in the president, it's the electoral college.

I personally would be more inclined to describe America currently as a neo-liberal democracy (which is stiill a dictatorship) but I'm sure if I did a little more reading and investigating I could come with a valid argument regarding the OP but atm, I just say neo-liberal democracy. I think viewing this term "neo-liberal democracy," it's important to both look at the infrastructure of the given nation, look at the state control and authority, it's economics and also bare in mind that despite have a dog and pony election season, it's still a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie.



Well that is exactly why I said I didn't fully understand all aspects of Fascism. I didn't say mass deportation and concentration camps immediately make a Fascist state(although i'm sure that they are apart of one however small or big of a role they play in it) What I was saying is to me America is not on par with the Fascism that we think of from WW2. However, I agree that America may have these FEMA camps and I know that Japanese-Americans were sent to camps during the war.

I just don't really care what people define America as, as long as they understand that it is corrupt, oppressive and treats the working and poor class like dogs.

I also understand why leftists don't like when leftists use the word Fascist loosely. Which in my case I did not.

[Proukunin]

And also, my rant about america being a two party business state was just that, a rant. IK it doesn't matter who you vote for..obviously that's why i'm an anarchist.:D

[Bronco]

lol is this directed specifically at me? a) i don't identify as a "leftist" and b) find an example of me misusing "liberal" or "bourgeois"

Not specifically at you, no. Just meant in general; I don't see the big deal with applying the word "fascist" even if it isn't strictly appropriate and why we should be so adamant that it isn't misused. I dunno, it's just that people missattribute other peoples positions all the time as a way of discrediting them (and always have done), right wingers do it how they call people "socialists" if they advocate stuff like universal health care or a welfare state, and some on here just throw around the word "liberal", sure it's all pretty dumb but I don't see why "fascism" should be such a different case

[Comrade Jandar]

To claim that the U.S. is "fascist" might be a bit premature, if you define fascism in a historical context.

My take on this is that, while the U.S. may not be fascist yet, mark my words, it is headed off the cliff in that direction.
If present trends continue, in twenty years, the US definitely will become a corporate dictatorship, perhaps even a fascist-like state.
This can happen if the people do not rise up and set things right!

Consider that Rome was a free republic for 300 years before the Caesars took power and turned it into a quasi-dictatorship.

Can't happen here? Anyone that doesn't think so had better wake up!



I guess we will just have to use another moniker to describe what is coming our way. Call it anything you like... how about "The Mark of the Beast?"


The thing that will be different about the fascism of the United States is that it will not be something fueled by the need to respond to a strong, class-conscious, working class, but as a desperate attempt for the American bourgeoisie to somehow retain its status as a world-power.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Not specifically at you, no. Just meant in general; I don't see the big deal with applying the word "fascist" even if it isn't strictly appropriate and why we should be so adamant that it isn't misused. I dunno, it's just that people missattribute other peoples positions all the time as a way of discrediting them (and always have done), right wingers do it how they call people "socialists" if they advocate stuff like universal health care or a welfare state, and some on here just throw around the word "liberal", sure it's all pretty dumb but I don't see why "fascism" should be such a different case

Well the establishment abuses terms like socialism and anarchism - and Fascism - because they don't care if the population has accurate information... er I mean they actually don't want the population to have accurate information most of the time.

Why a specific definition of fascism is important is because it informs how people should react to it. I don't like calling the US fascist (and it isn't) because as much as things are bad (still not as bad as the height of racist white terror or red scares of the past!) it's still possible to protest without having vigilante thugs beat you up and then come looking for your family. The police do their thing as is their wont, but we can still work around this - fascism is when the ruling class can't rely on just the cops anymore but it would be like if we protested and then the cops were joined by 1,000 armed Minutemen who could do whatever they wanted with full support of the cops.

[Klaatu]

Whoever this idiot is who wrote this has no idea what fascism is. He's simply using it as an epithet. Fascism is something very specific. Liberals tend to use the term as a catch-all phrase for when governments use totalitarian means to enforce order


I think I will agree with your observation that he is just using it as an epithet. I can understand your position, in that I myself get quite annoyed when right-wingers call the Environment Protection "a bunch of Nazis." Calling an organization that is trying to protect peoples' health names like that is utterly disingenuous. But then what can we expect from such simple-minded people?

[ed miliband]

also, by just throwing "fascist" around willy-nilly you sort of end up taking an idealistically pro-capitalist position, as if all the bad stuff cockburn discusses just couldn't happen in a liberal democracy. as communists we should be saying all these things are features of capitalism, "fascism" or not.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Strange to call a country with some of the strongest states' rights around a 'Fascist' country, even if on foreign policy and the big national economic decisions the central government is very powerful.