Nuanced Perception of Class?

[MajorGeneralPineapple]

Do you think there is a difference between social class and economic class? Recently I read an article by Joseph Schumpeter, a bourgeoise economist no doubt but also fairly open-minded, as those go, and in a manner much more respectful than I would have expected, he criticized Marx for conflating people's economic roles with their social roles, and I was wondering what some of you thought about this. If Marx made a mistake here, is it an important one?

I'm not an orthodox Marxist so I don't shy away from the possibility--- only to me, this seems like one of those arguments that mostly stems from an unwillingness to understand materialism and the power economic circumstances have on influencing almost everything. I think Schumpeter is a little unfair here, because Engels said that they never intended to say that economics determined all, only that it was a very important, if not the most important, factor. And even Marx makes room for people in economic classes who do not have their own interests at heart, or who do not share the dominant class ideology.

Thoughts?

[Die Neue Zeit]

I don't think Schumpeter understood the difference between class and strata.

[Valdyr]

I don't think Schumpeters analysis is very good, as Die Neue Zeit said. However, I do think there is a tendency towards an essentialist and mechanical understanding of class in much of the left, especially amongst Trotskyists.

EDIT: Not all Trotskyists, as you yourself have indicated by pursuing a more nuanced view.

[Art Vandelay]

I don't think Schumpeters analysis is very good, as Die Neue Zeit said. However, I do think there is a tendency towards an essentialist and mechanical understanding of class in much of the left, especially amongst Trotskyists.

Just needed to add in that little tendency jab didn't you:rolleyes:

[Valdyr]

Just needed to add in that little tendency jab didn't you:rolleyes:

Tendency jabbing is my specialty. ;)

Actually, in all seriousness, I derped and didn't realize the OPs tendency was Trotskyist. But I do notice this sort of class essentialism in a lot of Trotskyists, though I'm sure not all of them share it.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Social distinction is probably a function of economic class.

I imagine if you put a poor person in the boots of a rich person, they'd probably adopt the social norms of a rich person, and vice versa.

Obviously this is a crude analysis and it's a large and interesting field, though.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Do you think there is a difference between social class and economic class? Recently I read an article by Joseph Schumpeter, a bourgeoise economist no doubt but also fairly open-minded, as those go, and in a manner much more respectful than I would have expected, he criticized Marx for conflating people's economic roles with their social roles, and I was wondering what some of you thought about this. If Marx made a mistake here, is it an important one?

I'm not an orthodox Marxist so I don't shy away from the possibility--- only to me, this seems like one of those arguments that mostly stems from an unwillingness to understand materialism and the power economic circumstances have on influencing almost everything. I think Schumpeter is a little unfair here, because Engels said that they never intended to say that economics determined all, only that it was a very important, if not the most important, factor. And even Marx makes room for people in economic classes who do not have their own interests at heart, or who do not share the dominant class ideology.

Thoughts?

I'm not familiar with this writer - could you clarify what he means with these terms and how he distinguishes the two?

[blake 3:17]

I think there's a tremendous degree of difference and stratification within local working classes, let alone national or international. Vulgar Marxism often reduces class or stratification within the class to an immediate relation to the means of production or level of income or, sometimes, wealth.