Tax revenues drop. IMF's Lagarde blames massive tax evasion

[Vninect]

IMF chief Lagarde in Guardian, responds to a sharp decline in tax revenues. Tax income has gone down by a third this year. Lagarde thinks the entire situation for the Greeks could be turned around if only they would pay their taxes.

Lagarde sees tax evasion as the main problem of the horrible state Greece is in, and she sees in that a failure in willingness to "pay back" for all the good years they had.

I think Lagarde spends too much time with her pals in the Cayman Islands. Though that is not the only defect on her.


Asked whether she is able to block out of her mind the mothers unable to get access to midwives or patients unable to obtain life-saving drugs, Lagarde replies: "I think more of the little kids from a school in a little village in Niger who get teaching two hours a day, sharing one chair for three of them, and who are very keen to get an education. I have them in my mind all the time. Because I think they need even more help than the people in Athens."

Well, isn't she just the pinnacle of FUCKING HUMANITY there?

Lagarde is a criminal and a danger to all our societies; she the IMF with her. This is not news at all. But it still outrages me that they continue to exist.

From Germany, however, comes a different solution.


Jürgen Fitschen, joint head of Germany's biggest bank, Deutsche, described Greece as "a failed state … a corrupt state". Separately, however, there were reports suggesting that the chancellor, Angela Merkel, was dusting down the economic modernisation plan used to revive East Germany after the fall of communism in the belief that similar measures could be applied to Greece and other struggling eurozone countries. Today's Der Spiegel magazine says Merkel will present a six-point plan based on the East German blueprint as a growth strategy. It includes measures such as privatisation, looser employment law and lower tax rates.

Ahhh, much better. Instead of blaming the people for not paying their taxes and then letting the country go to shit, rob them even harder and let it go to shit.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/25/payback-time-lagarde-greeks

[Die Neue Zeit]

So what do you think of the rampant tax evasion problem Greece is facing?

[Vninect]

So what do you think of the rampant tax evasion problem Greece is facing?

First, I think they have very different problems.

Second, tax evasion has always been a problem in Greece. The rich don't pay them. And now the rest of Greece is supposed to "pay back" for the taxes their rich didn't pay. Meanwhile the capitalists are pulling out their money. Nothing is done about this. I don't even know if that is possible.

There is no indication that the working population can repay the debts: they haven't the money the capitalists stole. So they suffer, instead. Human suffering must be legal tender now?

Should anything be done about this? Well, that would be nice, but I can't see how they can solve the tax evasion problem without tackling some more fundamental structural problems. E.g. unemployment (they can't pay tax), the strictest controls on capital flight and international corporations (they pay their taxes elsewhere), and nationalizing key industries (which generate monopoly revenues that go into private pockets).... just for starters.

Or they can use that epic army they've been building for all these decades, at great expense, to steal all privately accumulated excessive wealth back from their capitalist class. Works for me... ;)

[Die Neue Zeit]

First, I think they have very different problems.

Second, tax evasion has always been a problem in Greece. The rich don't pay them. And now the rest of Greece is supposed to "pay back" for the taxes their rich didn't pay. Meanwhile the capitalists are pulling out their money. Nothing is done about this. I don't even know if that is possible.

There is no indication that the working population can repay the debts: they haven't the money the capitalists stole. So they suffer, instead. Human suffering must be legal tender now?

Should anything be done about this? Well, that would be nice, but I can't see how they can solve the tax evasion problem without tackling some more fundamental structural problems. E.g. unemployment (they can't pay tax), the strictest controls on capital flight and international corporations (they pay their taxes elsewhere), and nationalizing key industries (which generate monopoly revenues that go into private pockets).... just for starters.

Or they can use that epic army they've been building for all these decades, at great expense, to steal all privately accumulated excessive wealth back from their capitalist class. Works for me... ;)

I agree completely, but don't you think the tax laws themselves need changes? Tax deductions for swimming pools, can you believe those kinds of out-of-left-field clauses in Greek tax law? The bourgeoisie may benefit from their usual tax haven methods of tax evasion, but these clauses I referred to benefit at least the upper-income strata of the petit-bourgeoisie, a class that I think is proportionately larger there than in the most developed countries.

[Vninect]

I agree completely, but don't you think the tax laws themselves need changes? Tax deductions for swimming pools, can you believe those kinds of out-of-left-field clauses in Greek tax law? The bourgeoisie may benefit from their usual tax haven methods of tax evasion, but these clauses I referred to benefit at least the upper-income strata of the petit-bourgeoisie, a class that I think is proportionately larger there than in the most developed countries.
If there are such ludicrous laws, then yes, obviously, they need to be changed.

Not sure if the existence of a large petit-bourgeoisie bothers me, though. - As long as they realize they are not bourgeoisie. Many people seem to think they will be millionaires tomorrow. That is a problem, and it has been put into many people's minds by all the talk about entrepreneurship and business ownership. If you are selling the fruits of your labour, you are not a capitalist - certainly not if you also happen to believe your work matters: you will probably never become a capitalist then. Also, aren't workers of worker owned factories petit-bourgeois? (Not that they have a lot of those in Greece: I assume they don't.)

The idea that running your own shop has to be incentivized by giving tax breaks for luxury goods I think is outright stupid: it has its own rewards IMO. They do need to be protected - against big corporations for example. But you don't do that by giving them swimming pools.

[PhoenixAsh]

The idea that the Greek problems are caused by corruption are laughable...simple propaganda to explain away the failures in the capitalist system and obfuscate the role of the international finance system behind it. Consequently whitewashing the shared responsibility/guilt of ao. all EU countries to garnish support for EU measures imposed on Greece.

Tax laws in the current system are set to favor the elite and economic system rather than the citizens of a country. In such a system evading taxes is in my opinion not only logical but a legitimate discourse for workers. So I applaud the fact that so many Greek citizens join the "we won't pay" initiatives. It is one of the most obvious solidarity movement which empowers the working class....giving them a direct means to influence the state.

[Die Neue Zeit]

If there are such ludicrous laws, then yes, obviously, they need to be changed.

Not sure if the existence of a large petit-bourgeoisie bothers me, though.

It definitely bothers me.


Tax laws in the current system are set to favor the elite and economic system rather than the citizens of a country. In such a system evading taxes is in my opinion not only logical but a legitimate discourse for workers. So I applaud the fact that so many Greek citizens join the "we won't pay" initiatives. It is one of the most obvious solidarity movement which empowers the working class....giving them a direct means to influence the state.

There are differences in how to express a "we won't pay" line. Feeding the bourgeois and petit-bourgeois tax loophole culture is not the best avenue to express this even extra-legally.