Prensa Latina: German Parliament discusses Repression Against Occupy Movement

[Die Neue Zeit]

http://www.plenglish.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=510628&Itemid=1



Berlin, May 26 (Prensa Latina) A week after massive protests by the Occupy movement in Germany, the socialist party group Die Linke (The Left) included the repression on demonstrations in the federal parliament's agenda. The Socialists called for the debate to protest against a ban on most of the planned actions and the police repression.

The activists had planned four days protests, however, the government and local courts forbidden all actions but a demonstration, scheduled for last Saturday.

The Socialist deputy Christine Buchholz criticized the local government "formed by the Christian Democratic Union (CDU) and The Greens", for the massive repression against the demonstrators.

About 430 thousand people were arrested in cages and had to undress, because they enforced their right to rally, she said.

The conservative parties defended the ban on protests, saying the activists attending could be willing to use violence.

Meanwhile, members of the Social Democratic Party (SPD) and The Greens show understanding with the motives of the protesters.

However, they defended the decision to ban most Occupy movement's actions against the power of the banks and the management of the euro crisis.

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Modificado el ( sábado, 26 de mayo de 2012 )

[Grenzer]

This really seems like opportunism on Die Linke's part. By examining their programme, one can conclude that they really have no interest in the implementation of socialism(The phrase "democratic socialism" always sounds the alarm bells) and that this is merely a course of action to co-opt those who are genuinely willing to embrace socialism as an alternative to capitalism.

Something certainly smells like shit here.

[Die Neue Zeit]

I don't know, comrade. The leftists in the party put this discussion forward, not the coalitionists. Are you suggesting that the leftists are trying an opportunistic co-opt job?

[Tim Cornelis]

This really seems like opportunism on Die Linke's part. By examining their programme, one can conclude that they really have no interest in the implementation of socialism(The phrase "democratic socialism" always sounds the alarm bells) and that this is merely a course of action to co-opt those who are genuinely willing to embrace socialism as an alternative to capitalism.

One can be genuinely indignant with the repression of demonstrators without having to be a genuine socialist. Yes, "The Left" is not a revolutionary party however "The Left" does has various factions within its ranks, from wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Left_(Germany)#Internal_caucuses):
The Anticapitalist Left The Communist Platform The Socialist Left The Emancipatory Left The Reform Left Network The Democratic Socialist Forum

[Grenzer]

One can be genuinely indignant with the repression of demonstrators without having to be a genuine socialist. Yes, "The Left" is not a revolutionary party however "The Left" does has various factions within its ranks

I don't doubt that one can be indignant with repression without needing to be a communist. Nowhere did I imply that. What I am questioning is the value of a revolutionary faction within an explicitly reformist party. It seems to me that they just end up suiting the needs the needs of the reformists that way. In fact I don't think it is all that different from a supposedly revolutionary party participating in bourgeois government, such as the Stalinists during the Spanish Civil War did. They just end up becoming tools of capital(which is not to imply the said Stalinists had been anything else to begin with, coalitionism or not).

[Grenzer]

I don't know, comrade. The leftists in the party put this discussion forward, not the coalitionists. Are you suggesting that the leftists are trying an opportunistic co-opt job?

I believe it is opportunistic in effect. The anti-capitalists(and it is even questionable whether many of the supposed anti-capitalists in Die Linke even are) are only a small fraction of the party/group as a whole. They are putting forward this demand not as communists, but as members of the reformist group Die Linke. It will be the reformists within Die Linke that benefit from this, not the workers' class interests.

[Die Neue Zeit]

I don't doubt that one can be indignant with repression without needing to be a communist. Nowhere did I imply that. What I am questioning is the value of a revolutionary faction within an explicitly reformist party. It seems to me that they just end up suiting the needs the needs of the reformists that way. In fact I don't think it is all that different from a supposedly revolutionary party participating in bourgeois government, such as the Stalinists during the Spanish Civil War did. They just end up becoming tools of capital(which is not to imply the said Stalinists had been anything else to begin with, coalitionism or not).

Comrade, did you get the chance to read this Weekly Worker letter of mine from a couple of weeks ago?

http://www.revleft.com/vb/cult-t171323/index.html?p=2447535

Germany at least has one of the three kinds of parties or "parties" the class needs. The UK has none.


I believe it is opportunistic in effect. The anti-capitalists(and it is even questionable whether many of the supposed anti-capitalists in Die Linke even are) are only a small fraction of the party/group as a whole. They are putting forward this demand not as communists, but as members of the reformist group Die Linke. It will be the reformists within Die Linke that benefit from this, not the workers' class interests.

Which reformists, though? The eastern coalitionists? The western "oppositionists" who at least think twice on the subject of coalitions (a la Lafontaine)? I don't think the Ossis are committing anything to Occupy-related stuff, and I don't think they'll benefit from this.