False rape conviction costs five years.

[Os Cangaceiros]

http://www.telegram.com/article/20120525/NEWS/105259604/1052

That's one fucked up story. Particularly this:


But she refused to repeat the story to prosecutors because she feared she would have to return a $1.5 million payment from a civil suit brought by her mother against Long Beach schools.

:blink:

[Nox]

Absolutely fucking disgusting, in so many ways.

A similar thing happened to someone I know, but luckily he didn't go to prison as the girl who falsely accused him of rape dropped the charges.

[#FF0000]

Going to prison on a false conviction is one of the scariest things I can imagine. Goddamn.

[homegrown terror]

Going to prison on a false conviction is one of the scariest things I can imagine. Goddamn.

about seven years ago i was at a show, and a girl that i knew to be disgustingly underage decided she was going to hook up with me. after several failed attempts, she told me "this is going to happen, or i'll tell the cops it did." at that point i got away from the club as fast as i could and was very thankful i'd never given her my real name.

[Luc]

anyone got statistics on the ocurance of stuff like this?

[La Guaneña]

Wow, this is not only terrible for the accused, but also for women's rights in general.

[#FF0000]

anyone got statistics on the ocurance of stuff like this?

About 8% of rape accusations are "unfounded", which is just about around the average for any other crime, give or take. Unfounded doesn't mean "false", mind you -- 'unfounded' just means 'can't be proven one way or the other'.

What I want to make clear is that women "crying rape" when it didn't take place isn't a common thing at all.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Wow, this is not only terrible for the accused, but also for women's rights in general.

Yeah, that's definitely an unfortunate thing about this (I mean, beyond the obvious thing that this guy's life was screwed for no reason), is that stories like this makes some people doubt legitimate claims of sexual assault/rape.

Usually I have a pretty anti-"law and order" view, but in the case of framing someone/making false accusations...that should be punished harshly.

[homegrown terror]

Yeah, that's definitely an unfortunate thing about this (I mean, beyond the obvious thing that this guy's life was screwed for no reason), is that stories like this makes some people doubt legitimate claims of sexual assault/rape.

Usually I have a pretty anti-"law and order" view, but in the case of framing someone/making false accusations...that should be punished harshly.

that's one of those that's better punished privately....put the girl's name and photo up everywhere and force her to live alone in a crowded room the rest of her life.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

that's one of those that's better punished privately....put the girl's name and photo up everywhere and force her to live alone in a crowded room the rest of her life.

What, are you jesting?

[homegrown terror]

What, are you jesting?

no, i'm saying a girl like that, who'd ruin a guy's life for a cash settlement, deserves to have it known to everyone, just like those on the "sex offender registry"

[ВАЛТЕР]

False rape accusations are actually pretty common. The problem is that the public and court system will immediately pity and take side with the accuser and condemn the accused. They are basically looked at as guilty until proven innocent. Simply because "Why would she lie about it?"

Since lots of emotions run through rape cases it can really complicate the legal procedures.



http://www.theforensicexaminer.com/archive/spring09/15/


False Rape Allegations: An Assault On Justice

By Bruce Gross, PhD, JD, MBA

Of the 90,427 forcible rapes reported in 2007, 40% were cleared by arrest or "exceptional means" (FBI, 2008d) with 23,307 of those being arrests (FBI, 2008b). Clearance of a report by exceptional means occurs when the known suspect dies before an arrest is made, when the victim refuses to provide the information or assistance necessary to follow an investigation through to an arrest, or when the known suspect is being held in another jurisdiction for a different crime and extradition is denied. In order to clear a case by exceptional means, the officers must have an identified suspect, know where he can be found, and have enough evidence for a legal arrest.

Degrees of "Not True"
A certain percentage of rape complaints are classified as "unfounded" by the police and excluded from the FBI's statistics. For example, in 1995, 8% of all forcible rape cases were closed as unfounded, as were 15% in 1996 (Greenfeld, 1997). According to the FBI, a report should only be considered unfounded when investigation revealed that the elements of the crime were not met or the report was "false" (which is not defined) (FBI, 2007).

This statistic is almost meaningless, as many of the jurisdictions from which the FBI collects data on crime use different definitions of, or criteria for, "unfounded." That is, a report of rape might be classified as unfounded (rather than as forcible rape) if the alleged victim did not try to fight off the suspect, if the alleged perpetrator did not use physical force or a weapon of some sort, if the alleged victim did not sustain any physical injuries, or if the alleged victim and the accused had a prior sexual relationship. Similarly, a report might be deemed unfounded if there is no physical evidence or too many inconsistencies between the accuser's statement and what evidence does exist. As such, although some unfounded cases of rape may be false or fabricated, not all unfounded cases are false.

The term "unfounded" is not a homogeneous classification and, to date, there is not a formalized, accepted definition of "false rape allegations." Certainly, the designation of false accusation should not include those situations in which the accuser was raped but unintentionally identified the wrong person as the alleged perpetrator. The definition of false allegation of rape cannot be limited to the situation in which the victim recants the accusation. There are women who were truly raped but for any number of reasons choose to recant. On the other hand, there are women who were not raped but do not recant their accusation.

Perhaps the designation of false allegation might best be used exclusively for those cases in which it is determined that the accuser intentionally fabricated the allegation of rape. That is, the accuser claims an incident of forced sexual contact took place when no such incident occurred, or the contact that did occur was consensual. In addition, this would include cases in which a rape was committed, but the victim knowingly identified the wrong person as the perpetrator.

Just as there continues to be strong resistance to the fact that some children (for a variety of reasons) lie about having been sexually molested or assaulted, the judicial system, mental health practitioners, and the public at large are reticent to accept that some women (and men) lie about having been raped. However, there is ample evidence that adults lie about virtually anything, including grave matters that have serious consequences for others.

Crying Rape
Although there is no doubt that false rape allegations occur, it is extremely difficult to determine what percentage of rape reports is intentionally false. This is due to many factors, including jurisdictional variation in definition, criteria, and reporting practices, as well as the fact that not all rapes are reported. Although the FBI had set 8% as the average rate of false (actually, unfounded) accusations during the late 1990s, there is remarkable variation in the estimates of false allegations of rape found in the literature (Kanin, 1994; Epstein, 2005). A review of those studies on false rape accusations conducted between 1968 and 2005 showed a percentage range from 1-90% (Rumney, 2006).

Very little formal research has been conducted on the prevalence of false allegations of rape. One study looked at the 109 cases of forcible rape that were disposed of in one small midwestern town between 1978 and 1987 (Kanin, 1994). The given town was specifically selected for study because the police department used a uniquely objective and thorough protocol when investigating rape complaints. Among other procedural safeguards, officers did not have the discretion to drop rape investigations if they concluded the complaint was "suspect" or unfounded. Every rape accusation had to be thoroughly investigated and included offering a polygraph to both the accuser and the accused. Cases were only determined to be false if and when the accuser admitted that no rape occurred.

The researchers further investigated those cases that the police, through their investigation, had ultimately determined were "false" or fabricated. During the follow-up investigation, the complainants held fast to their assertion that their rape allegation had been true, despite being told they would face penalties for filing a false report. As a result, 41% of all of the forcible rape complaints were found to be false. To further this study, a similar analysis was conducted on all of the forcible rape complaints filed at two large midwestern public universities over a 3-year period. Here, where polygraphs were not offered as part of the investigatory procedure, it was found that 50% of the complaints were false.

Charles P. McDowell, a researcher in the United States Air Force Special Studies Division, studied the 1,218 reports of rape that were made between 1980 and 1984 on Air Force bases throughout the world (McDowell, 1985). Of those, 460 were found to be "proven" allegations either because the "overwhelming preponderance of the evidence" strongly supported the allegation or because there was a conviction in the case. Another 212 of the total reports were found to be "disproved" as the alleged victim convincingly admitted the complaint was a "hoax" at some point during the initial investigation. The researchers then investigated the 546 remaining or "unresolved" rape allegations including having the accusers submit to a polygraph. Twenty-seven percent (27%) of these complainants admitted they had fabricated their accusation just before taking the polygraph or right after they failed the test. (It should be noted that whenever there was any doubt, the unresolved case was re-classified as a "proven" rape.) Combining this 27% with the initial 212 "disproved" cases, it was determined that approximately 45% of the total rape allegations were false.

Unfortunately, like the two studies presented here, the empirical studies that exist on the frequency of false rape allegations are sparse in number and have notable limitations. Small sample sizes and non-representative samples preclude generalizability. Regardless, the mere number of publicized incidents of false accusations of rape over the last two decades indicates not only a need for further investigation into the problem, but a better understanding of how to identify such cases.

The Truth Behind the Lie
As with all of human behavior, there are numerous reasons why a person would lie about being raped. In the study of false rape allegations in the midwestern town and state universities, over half of the accusers fabricated the rape to serve as a "cover story" or alibi. This included 56% of the non-student and 53% of the student false accusers. The most frequent context and motive for the fabricated rape was consensual sex with an acquaintance that led to some sort of problem for the accuser. The perceived problem was typically something that caused feelings of shame and guilt in the accuser (such as contracting a sexually transmitted disease or becoming pregnant), which was bound to be discovered and received negatively by family or friends.

Approximately half of the accusers who were motivated by a need for an alibi identified the alleged rapist. Their goal was not to harm or cause problems for the acquaintance, but to protect themselves in what they perceived to be a desperate situation. As with most lies, the false rape accusation allowed the accuser to deny responsibility by creating an alternate reality into which to escape.

The next most common reason for lying about being a victim of rape was revenge, rage, or retribution. In the Midwest study, this included 27% of the non-student and 44% of the student accusers. In these cases, the false victim had suffered some real or perceived wrong, rejection, or betrayal by the alleged rapist. As the purpose of making the accusation was to obtain some measure of revenge, the "suspect" was always identified. Researchers in the Air Force study also found that spite or revenge and the need to compensate for a sense of personal failure through an alibi accusation were the primary motives for false rape reports.

There are a range of other reasons why women made false allegations of rape. For some, it was to meet the overwhelming need for attention often associated with Munchaussen Syndrome or Borderline Personality Disorder. In those cases a specific suspect was seldom identified. Others filed false reports in an attempt to essentially "extort" money from the accused, who was typically wealthy. Because the goal was financial, the accuser was typically not motivated to pursue the case through formal legal channels, preferring to push for a settlement.

As with certain false allegations of child sexual abuse, false allegations of rape may be the unfortunate byproduct of "recovered memory therapy." False allegations (of child abuse and domestic violence, as well as rape) are also known to arise in the context of divorce and disputed child custody. Within the context of the military, false reports of rape may be filed in order to avoid deployment to war zones.

Telling a Lie from a Truth
McDowell's research into the prevalence of false rape allegations provided some direction for the difficult responsibility of differentiating between a potentially true and a possibly false report of rape. McDowell compared the initial rape accusations made by "proven" victims with those made by "disproved" complainants. His analysis revealed a number of notable differences between the two groups. That is, there were certain characteristics or indicators that were found with greater frequency in baseless reports than in proven reports.

For example, in terms of the initial disclosure, unlike false accusers, true victims tend to go directly to law enforcement to file a report. False accusers are more apt to tell family members or close friends, who either report the rape themselves or push the victim to do so. In discussing the alleged rape, false accusers may be unable to provide detailed descriptions of the rape or may provide too much detail. Although a significant number of true rape cases include numerous sexual acts in addition to penile penetration, those fabricating allegations of rape tend to describe very limited and narrow sexual activity. False accusers may describe the incident with inappropriate affect, such as pleasure or even pride. Because they may have never actually suffered a rape, the allegations of false accusers may be physically improbable (if not impossible) or bizarre. Perhaps most telling are numerous inconsistencies between the accuser's description of the rape and the presence or absence of physical evidence.

Approximately 50% of the women who filed false reports claimed their assailant was a stranger or someone they knew indirectly (but whose name she never knew or couldn't remember). Claiming an unknown perpetrator makes the rape random and perhaps more importantly, makes the case unsolvable. This, in turn, frees the false accuser from the need to fabricate additional lies and the demands of being confronted by the alleged assailant. Another 30% of false reporters identified their attacker as someone they "kind of knew." In comparison, 75% of proven victims knew and were able to identify their rapist.

It seems that the quality of physical injuries may be the most significant of all indicators. According to McDowell's findings, the physical injuries sustained by false victims tend to be inconsistent or "odd." Because the injuries are self-inflicted, they seldom involve highly sensitive parts of the body, such as the vagina, nipples, lips, or eyes. Similarly, the injuries of false complainants seldom involve permanent injury or disfigurement. As the wounds are self-inflicted, they tend to be on parts of the body that are easily reached by the false accuser. There may be numerous lacerations and abrasions, all of which are comparatively minor in severity. Unlike the true victim, false accusers may seem comparatively indifferent or nonplussed by their injuries.

As suggested above, for the vast majority of false reporters, the allegation of rape solved a perceived problem the accuser was, or anticipated, facing. The same cannot be said for proven rape victims as, for most, rape marks the onset of numerous, long-term, and not easily resolved problems. None of the factors identified by McDowell are individually or independently conclusive or diagnostic of rape. Rather, the presence of one or more of the criteria suggests the possibility of a false allegation that should be carefully and sensitively investigated and explored.

To test the efficacy of his criteria, McDowell had three independent judges review all of the initially "unresolved" rape reports using his criteria. This group included the cases of those women who had admitted their allegation was fabricated when confronted with taking a polygraph. For a case to be classified as "unproved," all three of the judges had to determine a given complaint was false. After the judges review, 65% of the cases in McDowell's study were found to be false.

There is no certainty that any or all of the indicators identified by McDowell will be present in rape reports that appear to be "suspect." When present, however, they may serve to focus an investigation of the charges, as well as to guide the treatment of the alleged victim.

The Cost of the Crime
In most jurisdictions the accuser must admit that the accusation was false before the charges against the suspect will be dropped. Yet before the accuser decides to recant, the life of the falsely accused may have been disrupted, if not destroyed. They may have suffered any number of inequities, such as being arrested and questioned; dealing with the expense of hiring an attorney; being subjected to time in jail; having trouble with their employer; and fall-out with family and friends, to name just a few.Even if the case is dropped, the reputation of the falsely accused may be irreparably harmed, because some people may believe the retraction was "pressured," and not true.

Worse yet for the accused, the case may go to trial. Even if the falsely accused are acquitted, technically that does not mean they are innocent, only that they could not be found guilty. Regardless of the outcome of a criminal trial, the accuser can pursue civil action against the accused, resulting in further loss of resources. The worst possible outcome for those falsely accused of rape might be conviction and incarceration.

There is no way of knowing the number of defendants who have been convicted of rape on the basis of a false allegation. One study found 28 cases in which the defendant had been convicted and served an average of 7 years in prison before being exonerated by DNA evidence (Connors et al., 1996). Of note, all 28 cases involved sexual assault with the trials taking place in the mid- to late- 1980s when DNA was not routinely tested. According to the Innocence Project, since 2000 there have been 156 cases of post-conviction exonerations based on DNA testing, an untold number of which involved sex crimes (Innocence Project, 2008). The average time the wrongfully convicted person served prior to release was 12 years. Regardless of the exact number, processing those who have been falsely accused of rape is a clear waste of legal, judicial, and penal resources.

Essentially, there are no formal negative consequences for the person who files a false report of rape. Not only did the false allegation serve a purpose for the accusers, they actually never have to fully admit to themselves, their family, or their friends that the report was a lie. Although there are grounds for bringing legal action against the accuser, it is virtually never done. Even should a charge be filed, in most jurisdictions filing a false report is only a misdemeanor.

When rape cases go to trial, alleged victims are protected by "rape shield statutes." In brief, these statutes are designed to prevent defense attorneys from using the accuser's sexual history "against" her. At the same time, these rape shield laws may suppress evidence related to the woman's history that is relevant to the issue before the court. In particular, they have been used to exclude prior false accusations of rape filed by the alleged victim.

Although courts have ruled inconsistently on this issue, there is legal foundation for admitting prior false accusation into evidence in criminal proceedings (Epstein, 2005). In a step toward ensuring justice, perhaps when there is proof of prior false reports, they should be allowed in. Before this can happen, guidelines would need to be established regarding the definition of a "false rape accusation" and the criteria for proof of prior acts. Similarly, consideration should be given to making the filing of a false report of rape a felony, rather than a misdemeanor. Finally, instituting the possibility of a "not guilty and not credible" verdict might provide some recovery for the falsely accused and a clear warning to the false complainant.

In the End
Although it may not be "politically correct" to question the veracity of a women's complaint of rape, failing to consider the accuser may be intentionally lying effectively eradicates the presumption of innocence. This Constitutional right is especially significant when dealing with allegations of rape as in most jurisdictions, sex offenses are the only crimes that do not require corroborating evidence for conviction. Because there are often no witnesses and no physical evidence (especially if the victim delays in filing a report), the case may come down to the credibility of the accused versus the credibility of the accuser.

There is a fine line between supporting victims and protecting the rights of the accused. Yet, considering the unique challenges of trying and defending rape cases combined with the potential costs to the falsely accused, being able to assess the credibility of the alleged victim takes on special importance. Inconsistencies in the accuser's complaint should be confronted gently and respectfully, with awareness of the fact that true victims may distort or even lie out of embarrassment or shame.

[Deicide]

I know some guy who had sex (not the first time) with girl x, then a week later she told her mother that he had raped her, when in fact, both of them consented and they were both all over each that night. He went to youth prison as he was 15 at the time.

[#FF0000]

False rape accusations are actually pretty common. The problem is that the public and court system will immediately pity and take side with the accuser and condemn the accused. They are basically looked at as guilty until proven innocent. Simply because "Why would she lie about it?"

That's wild since a ton of people who actually studied this would tell you that the rate of unfounded rape claims is 2-8% and is just about on-par with other 'unfounded' claims for any other crime

[#FF0000]

Dude holy shit that article is the worst thing.


For example, in terms of the initial disclosure, unlike false accusers, true victims tend to go directly to law enforcement to file a report. False accusers are more apt to tell family members or close friends, who either report the rape themselves or push the victim to do so.Hey everyone, think of everything you know about how cops operate and then try and think why someone who just experienced a rape might be apprehensive about going to cops.


False accusers may describe the incident with inappropriate affect.Yeah it's not like different people react in different ways to trauma.


When rape cases go to trial, alleged victims are protected by "rape shield statutes." In brief, these statutes are designed to prevent defense attorneys from using the accuser's sexual history "against" her.I like how "against" is in scare quotes as if people literally won't just use the "she is a slut" defense for rape.

And all this on top of the fact that the paper never even begins to set up a basis for the claim that false accusations of rape are 'common' -- it just says "most research says this but some says that and I dont think there is enough research!" and then goes right on ahead without having ever provided evidence for a goddamn thing.

The fuck is wrong with you, ВАЛТЕР?

[ВАЛТЕР]

Dude holy shit that article is the worst thing.

Hey everyone, think of everything you know about how cops operate and then try and think why someone who just experienced a rape might be apprehensive about going to cops.

Yeah it's not like different people react in different ways to trauma.

I like how "against" is in scare quotes as if people literally won't just use the "she is a slut" defense for rape.

And all this on top of the fact that the paper never even begins to set up a basis for the claim that false accusations of rape are 'common' -- it just says "most research says this but some says that and I dont think there is enough research!" and then goes right on ahead without having ever provided evidence for a goddamn thing.

The fuck is wrong with you, ВАЛТЕР?


First of all, "What the fuck is wrong with you?"
What is that supposed to mean you fucking prick? Something is wrong with me because I post an article written by someone with some actual experience in the field? Eat shit.

I just posted an article on the subject. If you have something against the article you can email the guy who wrote it. He lists his references on the site and the article is very well written. If you think you have a better article on the subject, then by all means post it. I'd love there to be an actual exchange in knowledge on this site for once rather than back and forth bickering. I posted my evidence, you post yours. If I am wrong then I'll gladly admit it. No need to be a dick about it..



References
Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS). (2008a). Personal crimes, 2006: Number of incidents and victimizations and ratio of victimizations to incidents, by type of crime. (Table 26). Criminal Victimization in the United States, 2006. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs, Bureau of Justice Statistics. Retrieved from http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/ cvus/current/cv0626.pdf (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/cvus/current/cv0626.pdf)
Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS). (2008b). Personal crimes, 2006: Victimization rates for persons age 12 and over, by gender and age of victims and type of crime. (Table 4). Criminal Victimization in the United States, 2006. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs, Bureau of Justice Statistics. Retrieved from http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/ cvus/current/cv0604.pdf (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/cvus/current/cv0604.pdf)
Connors, E., Lundregan, T., Miller, N., & McEwen, T. (1996). Convicted by juries, exonerated by science: Case studies in the use of DNA evidence to establish innocence after trial. (NCJ-161258). Washington, D.C.: U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs, National Institute of Justice.
Epstein, J. (2005). True lies: The constitutional and evidentiary bases for admitting prior false accusation evidence in sexual assault prosecutions. (Paper 697). Retrieved from http://www.law.bepress.com/expresso/eps/697
Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). (2007). Methodology. Uniform Crime Report: Crime in the United States, 2006. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Investigation. Retrieved from http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/methodology.html
Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). (2008a). Crime Clock, 2007. Uniform Crime Report: Crime in the United States, 2007. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Investigation. Retrieved from http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/ about/crime_clock.html
Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). (2008b). Estimated number of arrests, U.S., 2007. (Table 29). Uniform Crime Report: Crime in the United States, 2007. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Investigation. Retrieved from http://www.fbi. gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_29.html (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_29.html)
Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). (2008c). Offense analysis, U.S., 2003-2007. (Table 7). Uniform Crime Report: Crime in the United States, 2007. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Investigation. Retrieved from http://www.fbi. gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_07.html (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_07.html)
Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). (2008d). Percent of crimes cleared by arrest or exceptional means, 2007. (Clearance Figure). Uniform Crime Report: Crime in the United States, 2007. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Investigation. Retrieved from http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/offense/ clearances/index.html#figure (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/offense/clearances/index.html#figure)
Greenfeld, L. A. (1997). Sex offense and offenders: An analysis of data on rape and sexual assault. (NCJ-163392). Washington, D.C.: U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs, Bureau of Justice Statistics.
Innocence Project. (2008). Facts on post-conviction DNA exonerations. Retrieved from http://www.innocenceproject. org/Content/351.php# (http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/351.php#)
Kanin, E. J. (1994). False rape allegations. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 23(1), 81-92.
McDowell, C. P. (1985). False allegations. Forensic Science Digest, 11(4), 56-76.
Rumney, P. N. S. (2006). False allegations of rape. The Cambridge Law Journal, 65(1), 128-158.
Tjaden, P., & Thoennes, N. (2000). Full report of the prevalence, incidence, and consequences of violence against women (research report): Findings from the National Violence Against Women survey. (NCJ 183781). Washington, D.C.: U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs, National Institute of Justice.

[#FF0000]

First of all, "What the fuck is wrong with you?"
What is that supposed to mean you fucking prick?

I mean, "how did you read this article and not have your bullshit sensors going buckwild". The guy doesn't even provide any solid evidence for his thesis -- literally references one or two small studies while completely hand-waving the FBI's official stats away.


If I am wrong then I'll gladly admit it. No need to be a dick about it..

I just go into a blind rage when I read insanely poorly cited papers by people with PhD's. It's nothin personal dogg you were just there when i internet-hulked out.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

insanely poorly cited papers by people with PhD's

You know that when someone publishes something and puts their diplomas up there out of context that there's a very good reason to be cautious about what you're dealing with. They have a tendency to have PhD's in entirely unrelated subjects, apart from the inanity of using argument from authority.

[wunks]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if his position as a black man influenced the courts decision to assume his guilt (which is probably why he was advised to plead no contest), especially in racist fucking Long Beach.

[Luís Henrique]

this guy's life was screwed for no reason

For no reason? What about, for 1.5 million dollars?


stories like this makes some people doubt legitimate claims of sexual assault/rape.

Stories like this are the reason why a fair trial is needed in criminal cases. Including rape cases.

Anyway, good thing that the "lynch the rapist" people didn't get their way on this one.

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

that's one of those that's better punished privately....put the girl's name and photo up everywhere and force her to live alone in a crowded room the rest of her life.

But now, besides the "lynch the rapist" thesis, we have the "lynch the false accusers" line too...

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Luís Henrique

[#FF0000]

Anyway, good thing that the "lynch the rapist" people didn't get their way on this one.

lol 'those people'


You know that when someone publishes something and puts their diplomas up there out of context that there's a very good reason to be cautious about what you're dealing with. They have a tendency to have PhD's in entirely unrelated subjects, apart from the inanity of using argument from authority.

Apparently his PhD is in criminology, which is sort of relevant I guess? Regardless, it's pretty stunning how shitty that paper is.

"False rape accusations can ruin someone's life and reputation"

Well no shit, and while that sucks, what's the alternative? Don't take rape accusations seriously? I don't understand what the point of that argument is.

[Luís Henrique]

Well no shit, and while that sucks, what's the alternative? Don't take rape accusations seriously? I don't understand what the point of that argument is.

Perhaps the point is that the accusations should be examined more in depth? (Which seems obvious - how came this young man was jailed and had his life destroyed if he was innocent, unless the accusation was determined to be true without actual evidence?)

He even lists a few common differences between legitimate and fake accounts of rape - perhaps the prosecution should pay attention to them before deciding to screw up the life of some guy just because it boosts their professional records?

(By the way, how can a system function properly if the public attorneys always press for conviction, even when they know the defendant is innocent, while the defenders have no incentive for doing a good job, except if their client is rich, and instruct the defendants to plead guilty instead of fighting for justice?)

Luís Henrique

[#FF0000]

Perhaps the point is that the accusations should be examined more in depth? (Which seems obvious - how came this young man was jailed and had his life destroyed if he was innocent, unless the accusation was determined to be true without actual evidence?)

I totally agree but that already happens.


He even lists a few common differences between legitimate and fake accounts of rape - perhaps the prosecution should pay attention to them before deciding to screw up the life of some guy just because it boosts their professional records?

With absolutely no citations or anything, though. For all I know it might be based on how he thinks rape victims ought to act. Rape is a traumatic experience and different people respond in different ways to trauma.

[A Marxist Historian]

no, i'm saying a girl like that, who'd ruin a guy's life for a cash settlement, deserves to have it known to everyone, just like those on the "sex offender registry"

What, so that people pissed off at her can track her down, beat her up, and maybe rape her?

This vigilante crap is totally reactionary, and that includes the "sex offender registry," which is remarkably easy to get on these days, including 18 year old sleeping with 16 year olds, and which ruins you for life. In San Francisco, the registry rules are such that there is no place except homeless shelters that people on the list can live in.

Given the state of justice in America, probably at least a quarter of the people on the list have no business on it whatsoever. If not more.

-M.H.-

[A Marxist Historian]

lol 'those people'



Apparently his PhD is in criminology, which is sort of relevant I guess? Regardless, it's pretty stunning how shitty that paper is.

"False rape accusations can ruin someone's life and reputation"

Well no shit, and while that sucks, what's the alternative? Don't take rape accusations seriously? I don't understand what the point of that argument is.

There is no justice in the capitalist courts, period. Either rape accusations will be dismissed because of sexism, or the innocent will be framed up because of various forms of prosecutorial hysteria, especially if race is involved.

Or both at the same time. Which is in fact the way things are.

You have by now over two million people in jail in America, approximately the same number in gulags at the peak of Stalinism. And a ridiculously high percentage of them (30? 40? don't have the figures at my fingertip) are in jail for smoking marijuana! I wouldn't be surprised if the number of innocent people in the gulags in the USSR under Stalin was less than that, being as most were accused petty criminals. So the last thing we need is more ways for prosecutors to throw innocent people in jail.

The alternative is socialist revolution, after which, in a society run by the workers, you could have a court system not permeated by hatred of the poor, racism, sexism, etc. etc.

-M.H.-

[Luís Henrique]

I totally agree but that already happens.

The point would be to make it happen less often, wouldn't it? Or do you mean that the more in depth examination already happens? In such case, no, evidently the investigations are not good enough, or cases are being decided with no evidence or even against evidence.


With absolutely no citations or anything, though. For all I know it might be based on how he thinks rape victims ought to act. Rape is a traumatic experience and different people respond in different ways to trauma.

He actually does cite a research by one Charles P. McDowell.

Evidently people react in different ways to trauma. They also feign an inexistent trauma in different ways. But there seems to be some differences between the people who suffered actual trauma on one hand, and people who are feigning it on the other.

Nobody is suggesting that accusations of rape shouldn't be taken in serious. Indeed, it is the opposite: that such accusations are taken in earnest enough that adequate investigation is pursued, that evidence be required, and that the presumption of innocence isn't inverted by the legal system.

But as I suggested above, probably the main problem is elsewhere, in a body of public attorneys who want to convict people regardless of evidence, plus the inexistence of a body of public defenders that earnestly defend the interests of their constituents, instead of regarding the defence of poor or destitute defendants as a burden that distracts them from their actual cases, from which they can make money.

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

This vigilante crap is totally reactionary

Indeed. It seems there are people who regard justice trials as decisions on "who should we lynch".

Luís Henrique

[homegrown terror]

i'm not calling upon anyone to "lynch" anyone else, all i'm saying is that if we're going to break free of established government, we need to be prepared to right an injustice ourselves, rather than hope the pig state will do it for us.

[#FF0000]

The point would be to make it happen less often, wouldn't it? Or do you mean that the more in depth examination already happens? In such case, no, evidently the investigations are not good enough, or cases are being decided with no evidence or even against evidence.

But that's not what the guy has a problem with. He says that the very accusation of rape is a black mark that can ruin someone's life whether they're found guilty or not. I don't think he's trying to say what you're saying here. I don't know what he's trying to say.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

i'm not calling upon anyone to "lynch" anyone else, all i'm saying is that if we're going to break free of established government, we need to be prepared to right an injustice ourselves, rather than hope the pig state will do it for us.

Yeah, I'm sure some stupid humiliation/knee-jerk violence hither thither is a much better way of dealing with it... Going to be as good as "law-and-order" police policy of government and fighting crime. i.e. not at all.

[Arlekino]

I don't have any proof. I always thoughts there is some where nasty sneaky attacks on minorities, just to put them in jails. Is right wing woman doing something what not suppose to do and how poor accuses can proof he did not commit a crime?

[Luís Henrique]

i'm not calling upon anyone to "lynch" anyone else, all i'm saying is that if we're going to break free of established government, we need to be prepared to right an injustice ourselves, rather than hope the pig state will do it for us.

I'm sure you don't intend it like that, but your proposed solution is tantamount to sticking a "lynch me" label to her forehead.

Luís Henrique

[Os Cangaceiros]

For no reason? What about, for 1.5 million dollars?

OK, how about no good reason, then.

[Robocommie]

Going to prison on a false conviction is one of the scariest things I can imagine. Goddamn.

It really is. And what's also upsetting about this is the idea of having 1.5 million taken out of school funds. THAT sucks.

Edit: Also I see it's become THAT kind of a thread since you posted this. Awesome! :p