The "N-Word" ?

[antiracist]

Why and how has the dreaded "N-Word" found its place among many African-Americans and their everyday discourse?
I think that the word should be forgotten because of the "history behind it", and I guess African-Americans should be the first to abandon it... but that's not the case unfortunately.
I feel uncomfortable when I hear the word being used by African-Americans themselves.

"Cracker" too should be discouraged. These are hateful terms.

What are your opinions on the issue?

[bigflowdan]

I think black people should be able to say any word they want. :scared:

[ComradeOm]

I have no opinion on this issue. There's a discussion to be had there but it's one for the African-American community to hold with itself. I'm not going to tell African-Americans what words they should or shouldn't seek to 'reclaim'

[Hermes]

I don't believe that words have any inherent power in them. I think the way to go about it is to get everyone to recognize that it isn't the word that's important, it's the intentions behind it.

In this way, I have no issue with African Americans using the n word, and I think it's hypocritical that most seem to think it belongs exclusively to them. I also feel that the censoring of the n word in works of literature or historical significance is terrible, and would never support it.

--

I also think the argument that keeping these words around encourages racism is ridiculous. If people want to demean someone, they will find words to do it.

--

My own personal views.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

I am white. A black friend of mine calls me his "nigger" all the time.

Obviously it has lost all of it's negative meaning in this context.

[Halleluhwah]

Just to be clear, are you white and suggesting that black Americans should stop using the n-word because it offends you??

[thriller]

I am for 100% freedom of speech. Any limitations on speech and you have censorship. I don't use it, I feel uncomfortable saying it. But that is just me. I don't care when anyone else uses. It's all about the intention, like Hermes said.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

Just to be clear, are you white and suggesting that black Americans should stop using the n-word because it offends you??

Good point. Is that true, OP?

[Misanthrope]

I don't get why people think the word is so heinous it shouldn't even be spoken. I frankly find "*****" more offensive then nigger. I'm not going to use the word, I don't think it's appropriate to use the word but am I going to over analyze and trace the linguistic history of a single word? No. It's just a word, it has everything to do with context and intention.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

The way I see it is, it's similar to me and my friends using the word 'faggot' and I understand completely the whole mentality surrounding "reclaiming," words which are bigoted and meant to demean. It's almost somewhat empowering and I feel the more I use it in a more silly manner the less it hurts me when I'm actually being called it; it virtually strips it of all of it's mental power. I use to be really hurt, offended and pissed when I would be called this but after using it myself, the last time in which I was called it's like "oh, wow, you really hurt, no, seriously, you did, I'm going to go home and cry now." I figure the mindset and reasoning is the same.

While I understand why those whom aren't apart of X group who has been called X bigoted name(s), you should realize that regardless of how you feel, people will still call us these hurtful names, so reclaiming them and stripping them of their psychological power is a good way to say fuck you to bigots. BashBack holding up a sign that said "these faggots kill fascists," while confronting racists and fascists comes to mind. Not to mention, it does seem slightly racist to try to dictate or preach to black people in regards to what words they should or should not say.

Also, you might as well say "nigger," and not "n-word," as we know what you're saying and we're subconsciously processing it as the original or saying the original in our heads.

[#FF0000]

Why and how has the dreaded "N-Word" found its place among many African-Americans and their everyday discourse?

idk



I think that the word should be forgotten because of the "history behind it", and I guess African-Americans should be the first to abandon it... but that's not the case unfortunately.

welp i guess that isn't up to you is it


"Cracker" too should be discouraged. These are hateful terms.


'oh no dont call me a cracker it reminds me of when my great great grandfather owned land and people ruined mah day"

[ArrowLance]

Just to be clear, are you white and suggesting that black Americans should stop using the n-word because it offends you??


Good point. Is that true, OP?

Colour is irrelevant on the internet. However the OP is still unfounded. However disturbing you might find it the answer is not to further disadvantage already disadvantaged groups over their language, situation, or culture.

As to the idea of freedom of speech it seems a terrible idea to simply allow whatever anyone wants to be said. To do so ignores that language is a very powerful tool which can be too easy to utilize in violent, dangerous, and counter-revolutionary ways.

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

For me, context and intent is key for any word(s)
I don't use it and I hate hearing it used deliberately as a slur or insult but language and words can evolve and change. They can also die out but when that happens can't be readily predicted and to try and enforce it's demise is a form of censorship, however seemingly well-intentioned.

[OnlyCommunistYouKnow]

Which "n" word? Negro, negroid, nigger, nigga?

[hatzel]

The real question is when 'hysterical' became an accepted word, given its obviously sexist origin...

Though also I'm interested in how self-descriptive words, like the Jewish 'yid' and Romany 'manuš' somehow became offensive words like the English 'yid' and the French 'manouche.' Or, on a similar note, why Poles and Germans for some reason started using 'sziksa'/'Schickse' (or however they spell it, I forget) as an insult amongst themselves :confused:

The etymologies of words tend to confuse me and we shouldn't worry about it too much because if somebody uses a word in some kind of discriminatory way or doesn't whatever, who really cares how it was used waaaaay back in the day?

(But also OTT white guilt stuff isn't particular attractive and doesn't achieve much. Critical whiteness, worth paying attention to, an admission of privilege, that's coolio, but much beyond that? Well...)

[Prometeo liberado]

Which "n" word? Negro, negroid, nigger, nigga?

I see what you did there.:rolleyes:

[wsg1991]

it's the history behind it for western people . Tunisia , and arabs in general ,had a long history of slave trade in the Mediterranean sea , until 1844 , but we did enslave both white and black people , so not much racism inherited . that's a funny from rush hour 1 about the word http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN2LJTCBPtg

[pastradamus]

They obviously use this word as it has become popular as a form of crude slang I suppose.
I personally dont like hearing that word from both black and white people alike but I cant impose my opinions on free speech so you just have to accept it.

[Anarcho-Brocialist]

I'm Black, when I was in my teens, about 13 - 16, I utilized the lexeme frequently. Albeit via maturity and a new ambiance, I don't exercise the word as I used to. I can't assimilate the dilemma transmitted upon that unit of speech, to be honest. It's tantamount in meaning among Blacks, as 'buddy' is to Caucasians.

[A Marxist Historian]

They obviously use this word as it has become popular as a form of crude slang I suppose.
I personally dont like hearing that word from both black and white people alike but I cant impose my opinions on free speech so you just have to accept it.

The noteworthy thing is that several white Revleft posters have leaped on this thread for a convenient safe opportunity to get their rocks off by using the N word. A meaningless word, because it means "black slave," and we haven't had black slavery in America since the Civil War. Anyone who uses is is implying he wants to bring slavery back.

Why has the N word become much more prevalent lately, among whites as well as blacks?

Because of the decline, fall and collapse of the black liberation movement, and the extreme rightward motion in America, affecting black people as well as white people.

When I was growing up, during the Civil Rights movement, it was generally understood that if a white person used the N word, it was legitimate to punch his lights out. This was even legally accepted in some places, notably the "fighting words" doctrine in Texas for example. (Texas ain't all bad). Ah, the good old days...

Why do black people use the N word? Well, for the same reason that a lot of Jews enjoy telling holocaust jokes--among themselves. Self-hatred is natural and human, though not a good thing.

But if were to hear a Holocaust joke from a German, I would not be too pleased to say the least.

-M.H.-

[Hermes]

The noteworthy thing is that several white Revleft posters have leaped on this thread for a convenient safe opportunity to get their rocks off by using the N word. A meaningless word, because it means "black slave," and we haven't had black slavery in America since the Civil War. Anyone who uses is is implying he wants to bring slavery back.

Why has the N word become much more prevalent lately, among whites as well as blacks?

Because of the decline, fall and collapse of the black liberation movement, and the extreme rightward motion in America, affecting black people as well as white people.

When I was growing up, during the Civil Rights movement, it was generally understood that if a white person used the N word, it was legitimate to punch his lights out. This was even legally accepted in some places, notably the "fighting words" doctrine in Texas for example. (Texas ain't all bad). Ah, the good old days...

Why do black people use the N word? Well, for the same reason that a lot of Jews enjoy telling holocaust jokes--among themselves. Self-hatred is natural and human, though not a good thing.

But if were to hear a Holocaust joke from a German, I would not be too pleased to say the least.

-M.H.-


That's ridiculous. If you're going to be offended by a Holocaust joke, you should be offended whether a Jew is telling it or a German. If you're only being offended when a German tells it, you're attributing the holocaust to him personally in some way, because if you were offended by the thought of the holocaust, you'd be just as offended regardless of who was telling it.

If someone is calling someone a *****, it does not mean that they have any desire for that person to become a female dog in heat, nor is it usually used in the context that the person is acting in that way. In the same way, using the N word doe not mean a desire to return to black slavery (or any slavery).

[hatzel]

I lived with a German for a good while and 'antisemitic' jokes were a mainstay of our banter. I didn't share any such jokes with the third flatmate. It later emerged he had...certain issues with Jews, let's just say. Go figure...

Things are usually far too complex to reduce them to 'this person can say this, this person can't,' as context and the nature of the relationship between the individuals in question plays a major role; there are jokes I would share with certain people, under a mutual understanding, that I would never dream of sharing with a third party.

I guess we'd have to read a load of books on psychoanalysis and stuff to really get it...

[kuriousoranj]

Just to be clear, are you white and suggesting that black Americans should stop using the n-word because it offends you??

No, but it is pertinent to point out that the significance of the term "nigger" is class based, and thus, be he a black, or a white "American", his race is insignificant in relation to his feeling towards it. I dislike people using classist terms, regardless of their race. We're all niggers to the bosses.

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

I don't care too much about who uses it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF1NUposXVQ

[Yuppie Grinder]

I honestly have no idea what to think about the modern day use of the word "nigger" by black folk. Some of my black friends call me nigga, but I don't use word in any context. It does really annoy me when middle class white kids use it.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

i honestly have no idea what to think about the modern day use of the word "nigger" by black folk. Some of my black friends call me nigga, but i don't use word in any context. it does really annoy me when middle class white kids use it.

yes!

[Manic Impressive]

'oh no dont call me a cracker it reminds me of when my great great grandfather owned land and people ruined mah day"
Most white people's ancestors didn't have slaves or had any part in the slave trade and there's black people's ancestors who did. But even if a person's great great whatever was the most evil slave owner of them all how does it make their off spring guilty of it or complicit in it? It's like if someone went round calling all Germans krauts because of the Nazis, something which very few people (left alive) had anything to do with.

Pnz2o4zpIdU

[Yuppie Grinder]

I have never met a white person who actually took offense to being called a cracker. I call people crackers all the time and they find it amusing.

[#FF0000]

Most white people's ancestors didn't have slaves or had any part in the slave trade and there's black people's ancestors who did.

Yup I know and I actually agree.


But even if a person's great great whatever was the most evil slave owner of them all how does it make their off spring guilty of it or complicit in it?

Nah I never meant to imply this. What I was getting at is that it's not really an offensive word since it's a word that was used to describe someone with power. It's the equivalent of calling someone a jerk imo

[#FF0000]

That's ridiculous. If you're going to be offended by a Holocaust joke, you should be offended whether a Jew is telling it or a German. If you're only being offended when a German tells it, you're attributing the holocaust to him personally in some way, because if you were offended by the thought of the holocaust, you'd be just as offended regardless of who was telling it.

No. Context is important and the relationship between the people communicating is important. Among other things. I mean I have a bunch of friends who will rag on me for being Irish(-American) but if some al murray lookin motherfucker came up to me and called me a mick, I probably wouldn't respond as I normally would.

I'd mainly be confused, but you understand my point I think.

[Hermes]

No. Context is important and the relationship between the people communicating is important. Among other things. I mean I have a bunch of friends who will rag on me for being Irish(-American) but if some al murray lookin motherfucker came up to me and called me a mick, I probably wouldn't respond as I normally would.

I'd mainly be confused, but you understand my point I think.

(I had to look up who Al Murray was)

I'd agree for the main point, but I think that it's a different case. Your friends are obviously using it (I would hope, if they're your friends) in a jocular way, while the person who looked like Al Murray, I would assume, wasn't.

It is about context, but it's also about what you're offended by. Obviously you're offended when people try to insult you, but not when people are joking with you. I wouldn't say you were annoyed specifically by the word mick.

(I really don't mean to tell you what you're offended by, although I know it sounds a lot like it. I just didn't know how to express it)

[Revolutionary_Marxist]

Why and how has the dreaded "N-Word" found its place among many African-Americans and their everyday discourse?
I think that the word should be forgotten because of the "history behind it", and I guess African-Americans should be the first to abandon it... but that's not the case unfortunately.
I feel uncomfortable when I hear the word being used by African-Americans themselves.

"Cracker" too should be discouraged. These are hateful terms.

What are your opinions on the issue?

A word is only a word, it's meaning is determined by the person or group saying it. So the "N-word" can mean one thing for one group, while it'll meann something else for another group. We shouldn't be going around telling people what to say, or not what to say.

[Halleluhwah]

A word is only a word, it's meaning is determined by the person or group saying it. So the "N-word" can mean one thing for one group, while it'll meann something else for another group. We shouldn't be going around telling people what to say, or not what to say.

In what way is meaning determined by the person saying the word? If while walking past airport security, I shout, "There is a bomb in my backpack," I shouldn't be surprised when I am arrested and my backpack confiscated, no matter what concept I tried to attach to the statement in my head. Words develop meanings historically within certain (fuzzy) cultural bounds.

Now, if black Americans decide that it is in their interest to 'reclaim' the word and consciously, as a group, attach to it a new meaning, then that is one thing. But the word can't be 'reclaimed' by the same race that wielded it previously as a weapon, and as long as the word retains the meaning that it does, they would have to be incredibly dense to think that they could use the word publicly without offending black Americans.

[Art Vandelay]

I thought that nigger was a derogatory term used against blacks and that nigga was nigger but re-appropriated with a more positive spin on it. :confused:

[Pretty Flaco]

I thought that nigger was a derogatory term used against blacks and that nigga was nigger but re-appropriated with a more positive spin on it. :confused:

some people say that. honestly i dont really know what to think of the whole thing. i usually dont say nigga unless if im joking with somebody or quoting somebody, im white. you always hear some non-blacks (i dont say whites cus ive heard asians and arabs do it too) use it liberally too though and i dont know what to say about that.

[pastradamus]

Why do black people use the N word? Well, for the same reason that a lot of Jews enjoy telling holocaust jokes--among themselves. Self-hatred is natural and human, though not a good thing.

But if were to hear a Holocaust joke from a German, I would not be too pleased to say the least.

-M.H.-

I dont think self-hatred is natural but I do believe its perfectly human to poke fun at a tragic past and it is one of the first steps of a society "fixing itself" for want of a better term. Irish people too poke fun at themselves. In England poking fun at the Irish for being "stupid" was common but when we joined in on these jokes in a humourous way they stopped telling them.

[Zulu]

I think that the word should be forgotten because of the "history behind it"
The "history" behind the word "Negro" is that it means "black" in Spanish. Therefore, "forgetting" it would be a little bit 1984-ish.

[A Marxist Historian]

I have never met a white person who actually took offense to being called a cracker. I call people crackers all the time and they find it amusing.

"Cracker" means Southern white racist. There are such people, in profusion, so it's not an ethnic slur, but a description. I suspect some of the N word users on this forum are crackers, which is why they like using the N word so much.

"Honky," once upon a time, was an ethnic slur vs. whites, and "redneck" is a slur vs. white workers. Neither should be used. Cracker is a useful descriptive term.

-M.H.-

[Revolutionary_Marxist]

In what way is meaning determined by the person saying the word? If while walking past airport security, I shout, "There is a bomb in my backpack," I shouldn't be surprised when I am arrested and my backpack confiscated, no matter what concept I tried to attach to the statement in my head. Words develop meanings historically within certain (fuzzy) cultural bounds.

Now, if black Americans decide that it is in their interest to 'reclaim' the word and consciously, as a group, attach to it a new meaning, then that is one thing. But the word can't be 'reclaimed' by the same race that wielded it previously as a weapon, and as long as the word retains the meaning that it does, they would have to be incredibly dense to think that they could use the word publicly without offending black Americans.

What I was trying to get at was that certain words have cultural backgrounds towards them, and words like that change their meaning over time. The word "*****" was originally used to describe female dogs, seoldomly is it used to describe female dogs in the 21st century. Same with the "n-word", it's meaning has changed with American society.

[A Marxist Historian]

What I was trying to get at was that certain words have cultural backgrounds towards them, and words like that change their meaning over time. The word "*****" was originally used to describe female dogs, seoldomly is it used to describe female dogs in the 21st century. Same with the "n-word", it's meaning has changed with American society.

The excuse of white people for using the N word is that, allegedly, there isn't any racism in America anymore, so what's the harm? After all, Obama is prez, right?

In fact, the US is still probably the most racist country in the entire world, so the N word is a dangerous weapon against black people, not just a word.

That black people use it is not simply self-hatred, though that's a part of it. It's basically the imprint of racism on them, inevitable in such a thoroughly racist society as America.

Richard Pryor popularized this--and realised towards the end of his life what a huge mistake that was, and vowed never to use it again.

-M.H.-

[Sea]

If president Kennedy would just go on television, and say, "I would like to introduce you to all the niggers in my cabinet," and if he'd just say "nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger" to every nigger he saw, "boogie boogie boogie boogie boogie," "nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger" until nigger didn't mean anything anymore, then you could never make some six-year-old black kid cry because somebody called him a nigger at school.

Profanity only has the power to offend when it's considered taboo. It can't be taboo when it's part of common discourse. If you go into the depths of Western China, and you're working in a field and nobody around you can speak English, and you get the notion to shout out "Nigger!" at the top of your lungs, nobody will be offended. In fact, nobody will know what the hell you're talking about. The notion that a word can be intrinsically bad is a cultural invention, and all it does is allows particularly malicious people to anger and sadden others. Blacks, whites, everyone should be allowed to say their choice of words.

[homegrown terror]

i was once told by an old black guy (sorry, "elderly African-American male" for the PC crowd) "death makes niggas out of all of us" in reference to the way skin blackens due to decomposition.

i thought it was bizarrely insightful, and it's been something that's stuck in my head ever since.