are people raising their children to be too "soft" these days?

[Lobotomy]

let me preface this by saying that I am not a parent and I surely don't understand the strong instinct one feels to protect their children, so I am biased.

I always hear middle-aged and older people talking about how, in some aspects, they did not have so many restrictions put upon them when they were children, compared to children today. I realize this is a massive generalization, but I think there is some truth to it. I think in the last few decades there has been a lot of overblown hysteria surrounding pedophilia, kidnapping etc. and as a result, people keep their kids on extremely short leashes (sometimes literal leashes even). for example, when I drive somewhere in the morning I always see parents waiting for the school buses with their kids. Nobody did that in the 70s and shit. people didn't even do that in the mid 90s when I first started going to school. people used to let their kids run around the neighborhood and go wherever and just told them to be back when the street lights came on. Nowadays I hear parents in my apartment complex telling their kids not to go where they can't see them from the window.

I think things like helmets, seatbelts etc. are good ideas because they can statistically be proven to save lives. however, I highly doubt that the world is overall a more dangerous place now than it was 30 years ago. has anyone else noticed this or am I talking out of my ass. sorry if this is scatterbrained I am krjhysekhnglskj

[Ele'ill]

I think people who say that kids are being raised to be too soft are just noticing certain examples and then projecting it out on the greater population. Perhaps there are some trends that are not generalizations and are consistent, I dunno. Although I grew up in the 80's - 90's I remember hearing about 'raising kids to be too soft'.

[NewLeft]

I guess it depends on where you live. There's plenty of kids running around my street without parents and stuff. I mean there's a bunch of middle school kids playing street hockey right now without a parent/adult in sight. Kids are too soft? Is that really a bad thing though?

[NorwegianCommunist]

I also think it depends on where you live.
When I was a kid, a ran around the hole town (small town) to 5 different friends without telling my mom most of the time. We went to the football field, woods or anywhere there was fun.

Now people have totally different rules. There was a local news report where 2 kids where abducted while walking home from school. After that the hole town I live in changed.

[The Machine]

i think its a white thing to be 100

or at least a middle/upper class thing

[Raúl Duke]

Hmm...
"Soft" is kinda vague.

What I've noticed is an "infantilization" and dependency of people, partially due to wishful thinking and the "everything will be grand" kind of discourse that people have when talking about the future for their kids (especially "middle-class" kids), the current pop culture, and even material conditions (hard to find jobs, hard to move out and live independently).

I remember when I was growing up all the lies I've been told and we held as truth as a societal group ("middle-class" kids). "Get good grades, you'll go to an Ivy league school with a full scholarship!" I had a 3.5-3.8 and, if I didn't live in Florida, I would have not gotten a full-ride. Student athletes are more likely to get big scholarships, it seems.

"Get a college degree and you'll easily find a good job!" Now, half of college graduates are underemployed or unemployed. Many can't afford to move out. Hell, sometimes I think getting a trade (mechanics, hair stylists) or having a certain marketable skill would more likely translate into a job/income.

Plus, to tie in with something I mentioned in a thread I created, we also have this pervasive discourse in North America of "as long as you have a will everything will be fine and go the way you want!" which ignores material realities and obstacles. People believe this platitudes as long as they have money and no problems, to those who have problems these platitudes sound like a crock of shit.

Although I guess this doesn't address the question directly, but I'm highlighting certain effects of how being raised in a certain way that doesn't prepare for negative situations can be detrimental.

[Ocean Seal]

Also this too soft rhetoric generally comes in line with the typical conservative narrative that kids don't learn to be business minded, adapt to the "real world" and when they reach the real world feel entitled to "big gubmint" helping them.
I don't know, maybe its because I wasn't raised too long ago, but I don't see it. Sure my parents were overzealous on instructing me on how not to get kidnapped, but I don't think it ever really got too bad.

[ColonelCossack]

Yes. Just look at Mothercossack.

[Luc]

let me preface this by saying that I am not a parent and I surely don't understand the strong instinct one feels to protect their children, so I am biased.

I always hear middle-aged and older people talking about how, in some aspects, they did not have so many restrictions put upon them when they were children, compared to children today. I realize this is a massive generalization, but I think there is some truth to it. I think in the last few decades there has been a lot of overblown hysteria surrounding pedophilia, kidnapping etc. and as a result, people keep their kids on extremely short leashes (sometimes literal leashes even). for example, when I drive somewhere in the morning I always see parents waiting for the school buses with their kids. Nobody did that in the 70s and shit. people didn't even do that in the mid 90s when I first started going to school. people used to let their kids run around the neighborhood and go wherever and just told them to be back when the street lights came on. Nowadays I hear parents in my apartment complex telling their kids not to go where they can't see them from the window.

I think things like helmets, seatbelts etc. are good ideas because they can statistically be proven to save lives. however, I highly doubt that the world is overall a more dangerous place now than it was 30 years ago. has anyone else noticed this or am I talking out of my ass. sorry if this is scatterbrained I am krjhysekhnglskj

There was a child rapist loose in my city for a bit, years back when I was a young child (7 or 8)


I walked to school alone everyday :/

[Os Cangaceiros]

Hmm...
"Soft" is kinda vague.

What I've noticed is an "infantilization" and dependency of people, partially due to wishful thinking and the "everything will be grand" kind of discourse that people have when talking about the future for their kids (especially "middle-class" kids)

I think this is gone. People now realize that life sucks, that life will continue to suck, and that the world they live in is shit.

Compare now to the 90's. The 90's were paradise for 'middle class' white people like myself! The end of the cold war and the tech boom was going to make everyone beautiful and live really long and it'll be fucking awesome! Now all the tech stories seem to be about how the government and business are going to monitor my every fucking move, everytime I take a dump even, and the economy seems to refuse to get out of the shitter.

[Magón]

All I can say is that parents in Mexico, have not changed. Or at least changed much. Maybe a bit has changed, but it still seems the same to as when I was growing up.

Here in the US it's definitely different, even for Mexican-Americans being brought up here. It's like a weird mix of Mexican child raising, which is strict, tough and no nonsense for the most part; and American child raising where they don't hit their kids so much, or yell at them so much for different things.

I'd definitely say the discipline factor parents have here in the US is easier and more forgiving than in Mexico. Also the whole directing kids to go into this or that, is a lot more so here in the US, than in Mexico. Parents in Mexico don't really hold their kids hand for very long. They sort of just point you in the direction from grade school and expect you to keep on going for as long as you can.

[gozai]

let me preface this by saying that I am not a parent and I surely don't understand the strong instinct one feels to protect their children, so I am biased.

I always hear middle-aged and older people talking about how, in some aspects, they did not have so many restrictions put upon them when they were children, compared to children today. I realize this is a massive generalization, but I think there is some truth to it. I think in the last few decades there has been a lot of overblown hysteria surrounding pedophilia, kidnapping etc. and as a result, people keep their kids on extremely short leashes (sometimes literal leashes even). for example, when I drive somewhere in the morning I always see parents waiting for the school buses with their kids. Nobody did that in the 70s and shit. people didn't even do that in the mid 90s when I first started going to school. people used to let their kids run around the neighborhood and go wherever and just told them to be back when the street lights came on. Nowadays I hear parents in my apartment complex telling their kids not to go where they can't see them from the window.

I think things like helmets, seatbelts etc. are good ideas because they can statistically be proven to save lives. however, I highly doubt that the world is overall a more dangerous place now than it was 30 years ago. has anyone else noticed this or am I talking out of my ass. sorry if this is scatterbrained I am krjhysekhnglskj
I agree: Liberate the children!

[Raúl Duke]

I would also like to clarify that what I described earlier I do not want to equate with "soft" per-se. At what normally constitutes as soft-upbringing, I somewhat agree with Ocean Seal's point of view.


Compare now to the 90's. The 90's were paradise for 'middle class' white people like myself! Hahaha, yes it was going pretty well. I feel that's why our generation that grew up, whether as children or teenagers, in the 90s were the least prepared for the present because everyone was living in an illusion and believed all the platitudes since, for the middle class, they all seemed true. The 90s was quite an idealistic time to some degree. In fact, I think the reason why we're getting a lot of "thanks" for these posts it that a lot of people on here grew up in/remember the 90s and probably feel like the characters in fight club, all cheated because they were all told all these lies and now we're realizing it's all shit and we're very very angry.


I think this is gone. People now realize that life sucks, that life will continue to suck, and that the world they live in is shit.Perhaps a lot do, but many do not...at least not yet. Of course, I'm talking about my university...however not sure if that's a good demographic since it seems many people in my uni have quite a bit of money. Although they might once graduation comes around and sets in.

[Deicide]

I used to get hit with a leather belt.

Lithuanian parenting is HARDCORE.

[homegrown terror]

i get told this all the time when i tell people i'm not going to physically punish my kid ("well then yeer jus gown be reerin yerself a damn pussy with no proper respect!" fucking bible belt)

honestly, with how technically advanced kids are these days, cutting them off from their phone, computer, xbox etc is a much more effective punishment than a belt.

[Quail]

I think that due to how readily accessible news is, horror stories about child abuse, kidnap, etc. get blown ridiculously out of proportion. My parents are always saying weird stuff like warning me that any man who I go out with could just be using me to get close to my son (wtf) and warning me about ridiculously unlikely scenarios where my son could get snatched out of the garden or something. I think for the most part, people are just being paranoid. I don't think the world is any more dangerous than it used to be, but people get hysterical about high-profile news stories and try to protect their children.

[homegrown terror]

I think that due to how readily accessible news is, horror stories about child abuse, kidnap, etc. get blown ridiculously out of proportion. My parents are always saying weird stuff like warning me that any man who I go out with could just be using me to get close to my son (wtf) and warning me about ridiculously unlikely scenarios where my son could get snatched out of the garden or something. I think for the most part, people are just being paranoid. I don't think the world is any more dangerous than it used to be, but people get hysterical about high-profile news stories and try to protect their children.

"oh, but all that paranoia is totally worth it, because just imagine if your kid was that statistic!!!!" one of the big things that drove me from being a garden-variety democrat to the true left was their "won't somebody think of the children?" mindset.

[Pretty Flaco]

I used to get hit with a leather belt.

Lithuanian parenting is HARDCORE.

my parents would just grab whatever was lying around! belts, spoons, clothes, once pvc pipes, ouch!

[MotherCossack]

MAKE WAY FOR A REAL [YES... JBEARDO.... REAL!] PARENT!!!
OH YES .... i think i am qualified to comment....
As a moother of 4 .... i can honestly say.... gotta go....

[PC LOAD LETTER]

I think this is more of a white-flight-suburbia thing, at least here in the US ... seems that's where a lot of the overprotective shit comes from in my experience

When I was a kid (90s) I was running all over the damn place and my parents didn't care as long as A) I stayed in the neighborhood and didn't go too far, B) I was back by sunset (or streetlights as someone else said in the thread).

[MotherCossack]

MAKE WAY FOR A REAL [YES... JBEARDO.... REAL!] PARENT!!!
OH YES .... i think i am qualified to comment....
As a moother of 4 .... i can honestly say.... gotta go....

where was I?

yeah ... hmmm..right.... well ... first of all can I just say...
The day before yesterday I was an extremely embarrassed, clumsy, solitary, unloved, anti-social, wayward, bumbling, dissatisfied, unfulfilled and wandering soul of a teenager ....then... twenty year old...........
And so rambled on then.... all of a sudden Oops a daisy....
Well thats a turn up for the books... what ...? me? a mum? ... Naaa!!!.... But it seems ... yes!
Then before you know it .... that strange species... parents... you become one.
But you dont feel any different really... it is still hard to decide... scary.... you still feel like a kid yourself.... you wonder.... so when am I gonna grow up then?.. Then you realize that you have.....grown up.... as much as you ever will....
So what I am saying is parents are us.... we are or will be parents.....

To just .... 'blame the parents" ...... It is the biggest cop-out and not in any way helpful.
We need to cultivate more of a shared feeling of collective responsibility towards the next generation....

I , as a parent, do the very best that I can.... I want my children to be as cool, functional, happy, effective, integrated, [and of course politically sorted] as they possibly can....
I have done everything in my power to parent my 4 in the best way that I possibly could....
I have tried my best.
But i live in these times and these times are full of contradictions, confusion, trouble and stuff... and it is hard ...
All i can say is the bigger picture matters .... there are many influences... school, tv , peer groups, internet....

Dont just blame mum...... joined up thinking needed

[MotherCossack]

I feel I should say more on this... i do feel strongly about the whole parenting thing... and it is so easy to just blame us ....for all and everything...
I mean it seems pretty clear to me that our times are getting a bit shit.... The younger generation seem so dissatisfied, grumpy, stroppy, mardy, yampy, strung out, lost, untethered, boundaryless, shapeless. soft, squidgy, bored, boring,
[ look I have teenage sprogs.... i should comment but it is hard not to run away with it.... I'll pass the baton in a sec...]
It is hard to put a finger on what, exactly, is going awry... so easy to see why parents are getting it in the neck..... but that is not gonna solve much.... it is far more complicated than that.....
i mean... what do these people think will happen.... all us mums and dads... we go on detention....for a month... then... come out... shiny... complete... A* parents.... complete with juicy big parenting skills.... including.... boundaries, authority, no separation issues, discipline, patience, no transference, confidence, interest, knowledge, time, self-awareness... and that is before you even mention Love....

What kind of worries me..... is this... if you think us lot are bad parents...i mean we can still remember what stuff was like before discipline got abolished and kids were not all treated like younger versions of ourselves... being a child was a bona fide raison d'etre.......yeah well.... if you think it is bad now... what do you think it will be like when the next lot come in to bat?


they have no clue what it used to be like... how to be parents.... they will have no point of reference or memory of the age of childhood / time before the abolition of authority

--have to go........small daughter requires food and water!/attention--

[Agathor]

^^ Lunatic

[Quail]

Ok my son is 2 so I can only really comment on what I hope to be like for him... But I don't think harsh discipline is the way to go. I want him to understand the difference between legitimate and illegitimate authority. I want to give him space to make mistakes and be there to support him if things so go wrong.

When I was a teenager I was wrapped up in cotton wool. I had less freedom than my twin brother. That didn't stop me from falling into the arms of an emotionally abusive rapist, or stop me from getting fucked up on all kinds of drugs or getting pregnant at 18 because a condom failed. I want to give my son the best advice and teach him everything I have learned from my mistakes. I don't want to say "don't do drugs" (for example) and leave it at that. He meeds to understand the complex reasons why people take drugs and if he ever does choose to take drugs I want him to be fully aware of the risks/benefits and how to stay safe. I hope that makes sense.

[Arlekino]

Kids are little devils.

[Quail]

Cute little devils though :)

[Yuppie Grinder]

I probably would have turned out a lot better had my parents given me more freedom and also been harder on me when I was younger. If I have children this is probably how I'd like to raise them. If you fuck up, you're fucked. Other than that, go run around and have fun, don't get arrested.
Also, all the video games, anime, and 4chan young boys and teens are hooked on probably contributes greatly to how many of them today are socially inept beyond repair.

[PC LOAD LETTER]

I probably would have turned out a lot better had my parents given me more freedom and also been harder on me when I was younger. If I have children this is probably how I'd like to raise them. If you fuck up, you're fucked. Other than that, go run around and have fun, don't get arrested.
Also, all the video games, anime, and 4chan young boys and teens are hooked on probably contributes greatly to how many of them today are socially inept beyond repair.
Those gosh darn video games and japanese cartoony shows are the devil

[Firebrand]

I think that there was a substantial shift while I was growing up. I remember the overall atmosphere allowing kids less and less freedom. I was lucky because my parents were quite relaxed but I remember getting a weird feeling at age 12 that I was being allowed to do less stuff than I was allowed at age 7.
I think a major issue isn't discipline, its the simple fact that kids aren't allowed outside on their own anymore. That means that they have to wait for their parents to have time to go with them, with work and so on most parents don't have much time for this so the kids stay indoors playing video games, therefore do less social interaction and exercise.

[Qavvik]

Depends. I'm sure there's a few parents out there that do, but it seems the older generations are just remembering the highlights of the past and over-romanticizing it. My parents neglected me for the most part; just let me run around everywhere, but also laid down the law in the case that I seriously screwed up.

[Pretty Flaco]

when im a parent im going to make sure as a young kid my kid knows whats right and wrong and then i can teach them why when theyre mentally capable of understanding it. my parents just told me not to do shit but that didnt teach me why i shouldnt. so if i learned why i shouldnt do something i learned it the hard way. and im still young so ive got a ways to go, things to learn still.

[Revolution starts with U]

I was demotivated from unethical activity far more from losing my parent's respect than I was from my dad spanking me with the belt so... i don't really know the answer, just sayin..

[MotherCossack]

^^ Lunatic

^^ You talking to me?^^

[Zav]

I don't think kids are being raised 'soft' (unless you count obesity rates), but certainly we live in a culture of fear and suspicion.

[MotherCossack]

no matter.....
i pity thee....
thee who inhabits a world so dull....so small.... so safe....
Be brave ... be bold.... embrace the chaos and fly!

or alternatively.... hover hesitantly on the fringes of life....and wait .... eventually you will tire.... and slowly .... so slowly.... you will disappear!!!

[PC LOAD LETTER]

^^ You talking to me?^^
4e9CkhBb18E

[Ele'ill]

Let your kids cause mayhem it builds character

[MotherCossack]

teach them how to march and shout,
teach them what its all about,

teach them who runs the show
and why they have to say no.

tell the story of how things are
how we are poor and never get far

how some are born with a bigger share
and how the world seems not to care.

most of all.... and make it clear
if we all shout.... the rich will hear...

make it loud and have no fear
the time for change is very near.

what is wrong with being fair
they have more than enough to spare

our kids... we should prepare them well
for it's they that will inherit this hell.

[Art Vandelay]

teach them how to march and shout,
teach them what its all about,

teach them who runs the show
and why they have to say no.

tell the story of how things are
how we are poor and never get far

how some are born with a bigger share
and how the world seems not to care.

most of all.... and make it clear
if we all shout.... the rich will hear...

make it loud and have no fear
the time for change is very near.

what is wrong with being fair
they have more than enough to spare

our kids... we should prepare them well
for it's they that will inherit this hell.

Is this of your own creation?

[Art Vandelay]

I think it ultimately comes down to older people projecting their happy past memories on the entire population. Its the exact same as how people say "oh don't you remember the good old days?" Meanwhile there referring to the 60's yeah that wasn't the good old days for everyone you simple minded prick; during your "good old days" in your country blacks were being firehosed, or worse, in the south and kids were being sent off to die in an illegal occupation.

[MotherCossack]

aye that it is......
i have them coming out of my earholes...
what can i do?

i am one of those dames
who sees the flames

the enlightened folk
who see through the bourgeois smoke

we stand alone yet defiant
on each other are we reliant

together we are strong
against so much that is wrong

i believe there is a day
not that far away

that huge tower
signifying all their power

will surely stagger and sway
then crumble away

it will be our turn
their world will burn

what comes after....
will be fun and laughter

is this just a wishful dream
madness dancing on a moonbeam

or shall i say
it is not this day...
or any day til far away

but it will arrive
...........
i only hope i am still alive!

[Jimmie Higgins]

let me preface this by saying that I am not a parent and I surely don't understand the strong instinct one feels to protect their children, so I am biased.

I always hear middle-aged and older people talking about how, in some aspects, they did not have so many restrictions put upon them when they were children, compared to children today. I realize this is a massive generalization, but I think there is some truth to it. I think in the last few decades there has been a lot of overblown hysteria surrounding pedophilia, kidnapping etc. and as a result, people keep their kids on extremely short leashes (sometimes literal leashes even). for example, when I drive somewhere in the morning I always see parents waiting for the school buses with their kids. Nobody did that in the 70s and shit. people didn't even do that in the mid 90s when I first started going to school. people used to let their kids run around the neighborhood and go wherever and just told them to be back when the street lights came on. Nowadays I hear parents in my apartment complex telling their kids not to go where they can't see them from the window.

I think things like helmets, seatbelts etc. are good ideas because they can statistically be proven to save lives. however, I highly doubt that the world is overall a more dangerous place now than it was 30 years ago. has anyone else noticed this or am I talking out of my ass. sorry if this is scatterbrained I am krjhysekhnglskj

Interesting and not what I expected from the thread title.

I think there are a few things going on here:

1. The fetishization of (white middle class) youth in US society. I think this is an overall general trend probably coming from a few places. Politically there is a lot of "Think of the Children" rhetoric from the New Right and so from the late 70s on I think we can see all these restrictive and often racist laws or policies being passed on the basis of "we have to act now to protect the children!". The general "fear thy neighbor" politics of Neoliberal America gains some traction when children are used as emotional blackmail whereas saying "we want to privitize education to make money and prevent working class kids from having any expectations for a good job anymore" doesn't go far. Saying, "the family is in disarray" works better than saying, "women shouldn't work, they should raise kids and provide free labor to the family". Countless reactionary policing laws and prison sentencing have been built by politicians off the corpses of photogenic white children while black children have been demonized and presented to the general US population as "out of control sociopaths in the making".

2. The further atomization of US society. As much as the ruling class blame kids for playing video games and getting fat, the ruling class has put in a lot more effort trying to make us all afraid of the outdoors. Again, this is the "fear thy neighbor" politics and my favorite evidence of this is that every year on Halloween we get two urban legends presented to us as fact on the TV news: poisoned or tainted trick-or-treat candy and teenagers in cults killing pets. The pet-killing thing may actually happen - but it's probably from the media stories not some religion of goths or whatnot. But the poison candy thing is reported every year as a possibility and yet it's rarely ever happened if it even happens at all. Rich people don't even go trick or treating, or they go to some designated block for segregated yuppie trick or treating. Poor kids where I live don't go trick or treating - I suppose it still happens in suburban areas, probably against numerous warnings from schools PTAs and the media. But it's a general trend beyond just Halloween and kids are basically taught to fear everyone other than authorities (who are infallible!)

3. Why I thought this topic was going to be different. Well in the US, generally we hear this only from the right-wing (ironically since they are the ones who support all the fear-mongering about undesirables out to get your children unless the police have the right to shoot-first and ask questions later). What they mean about "soft" is "un-manly": they complain that kids are too soft emotionally. In my opinion it's the opposite: society teaches kids to be "hard" in all the wrong ways while sheltering and isolating them from their peers or non-authority sources of opinion - it goes hand in hand. Kids are taught to fear that everyone is out to get them when they go to school... don't trust these kids, don't trust these adults, don't trust your neighbors to give you a piece of candy... then who do you trust? Hmm, sounds like an afternoon of watching FOX news.

To use education-politics as an example again, the right always complains that schools "coddle" children. Well, if the point is for every kid to learn, then for some they might need extra attention. But the right doesn't care about "coddeling" what they mean is "why does every kid need to go to school?". They mean that education should be a competition (where obviously rich kids with all the resources and private tutors and access to better private schooling win) and student's shouldn't be taught but need to "pull themselves up by their book-straps" heh, see what I did there.

[Agent Ducky]

Recently my mom read a book with the word "Free-Range Kids" in the title and it did talk about how recently the media's sensationalization of crimes like child abduction, etc. is causing a lot of parents to be over-protective. I think a good example would be all of that "stranger danger" bullshit that teaches kids just to be afraid of everything different....
My mom took it to heart and now lets my brother and I do things and go places so I think more white suburban families need to know that a lot of the crimes against children are highly exaggerated and very rare.

[MotherCossack]

maybe we have made a big mistake befriending our kids.........
hang about......
you guys are our kids.....
why am i even talking like this to you......
I am Mother...... where is my tweed skirt and blousey blouse covering pointed boobies.... where are my impossibly uncomfortable court shoes and where is my compact...

shut up mother.... you've made your point....
where was I.... oh yeah.... kids want telling..... they want boundaries.....they need someone who knows when enough is enough....
how can you rely on a buffer that just gives way when pressure is exerted.....just because you are pushing it ..... does not mean you actually want it to give way.

omg..... can it be so???
makes sense... i hated my mum for being so damned outrageous.....
she was [and still is, a bit,] unshockable.
well if this is true......
i'm up shit creek without a paddle....
and ... even this... rev-left..... it is the kernal's bag..... I should be gazing sternly from afar.... tut-tuting and looking at my watch...
instead we fight like cats and dogs and rarely does it end well....

[MarxSchmarx]

I would also like to clarify that what I described earlier I do not want to equate with "soft" per-se. At what normally constitutes as soft-upbringing, I somewhat agree with Ocean Seal's point of view.

Hahaha, yes it was going pretty well. I feel that's why our generation that grew up, whether as children or teenagers, in the 90s were the least prepared for the present because everyone was living in an illusion and believed all the platitudes since, for the middle class, they all seemed true. The 90s was quite an idealistic time to some degree. In fact, I think the reason why we're getting a lot of "thanks" for these posts it that a lot of people on here grew up in/remember the 90s and probably feel like the characters in fight club, all cheated because they were all told all these lies and now we're realizing it's all shit and we're very very angry.


Hmmm. I thanked your post however that was not how I remember the 1990s. The 1990s were actually when a lot of traditional indicators started going south. The Anglo-Saxon countries had finally broken the unions and the ruling class was enjoying a generation without them (eps. after the miners and air traffic controlers disaster), employment patterns were shifting rapidly from traditional full time employment to part time contingency work, offshoring was picking up full speed, and the burden of social wellbeing were increasingly shifted on the least well off. I don't really think myself as a "child of the 90s" but several of my family members went through extremely rough times as these traditional models of economic security began to evaporate. The austerity crap we're seeing in Europe now was der rigeur in Latin America and much of the eastern bloc was on a rapid downard spiral. Oh, and then there was Rwanda. I think most people who stopped and thought about it all even at the time realized something was very wrong.

I guess some sectors did well, like the public sector in the United States, the newly opened Indian markets, and obviously the interwebs folks. But I think the "good" 1990s have always been drastically exaggerated and perhaps only seem acceptable now because things have stagnated and even gone backwards so spectacularly.

However, in some wealthy countries I think there was a shift towards more nurturing child development. Japan famously revised its pre-high school curriculum to account for children to be less driven, and I think when the baby boomers came of age particularly in Western Europe an North America they raised their children with much more progressive (but not always soft) values. This to me makes sense, as they were the first generation to, in large numbers, not experience serious material want and so had a foundation of comfort they felt appropriate to instill in their children.

[Art Vandelay]

Interestingly enough I was re-reading My Life by Trotsky last night and came upon a passage which made me think of this thread (take it for what you will):

"Human psychology, particularly in the case of children, has its own buffers, breaks, and safety valves-an extensive and well devised system which stands guard against untimely and too drastic of shocks."

[MotherCossack]

things are improving.... now i am just called a bum-cheek.... by nameless teenage daughter....she was refering to me as.....ugly, fat slag.....
me-no-like!!!!!!but what can i do.....