Why should I join Communism?

[harte.beest]

SO I'm actually embarrassed to sign up here. I'm an ex-wall st banker, currently working customer service ripping off old folks (don't ask)

I'm not educated in communism (especially compared to some of you) I don't know who tito is, or what roosterism is, or what the definitions of proletariat or buogousie are. I'll look themup later just wanted everyone to know that these are all new things to me so please forgive my future ignorance.

Im know thnking o getting bank nto banking, i have to renew my licenses but i'm thinking about not going back. I screwed over alot of people and I don't know if I should keep doing it

first I was moderate, then democrat, then liberal, then socialist, now I'm thinking of becoming a full blown commie

SO what's my first assignment?

[harte.beest]

Hello everyone, I'm a capitalist, I'm here with an open mind. I've noticed alot of problems in America. The banks collapsing, the plutocratic tax codes, the economic royalists demanding our worship.

The worst thing lately has to be the treatment of the OWS protesters. So I'm here to be converted :cool:

[#FF0000]

SO I'm actually embarrassed to sign up here. I'm an ex-wall st banker, currently working customer service ripping off old folks (don't ask)

i was a telemarketer for a little bit too.


I'm not educated in communism (especially compared to some of you) I don't know who tito is, or what roosterism is, or what the definitions of proletariat or buogousie are. I'll look themup later just wanted everyone to know that these are all new things to me so please forgive my future ignorance.

tito = leader of communist yugoslavia. basically a person who nostalgic old people look back at to remember 'the good old days'. roosterism is a joke and isn't a real tendency. Everything else you'll probably pick up pretty easily.


SO what's my first assignment?

Check out the learning forum -- specifically, the stickies. More specifically, "A communist faq by Engels". There's also the Consolidated Learning FAQ that's got a big reading list if you want to dive into that.

go to marxists.org if you're looking for something written by any particular marxist or anarchist writer.

Ask questions. Most folks around here nowadays aren't far ahead of you in terms of walking knowledge, so don't feel intimidated or anything.

[harte.beest]

i was a telemarketer for a little bit too.



tito = leader of communist yugoslavia. basically a person who nostalgic old people look back at to remember 'the good old days'. roosterism is a joke and isn't a real tendency. Everything else you'll probably pick up pretty easily.



Check out the learning forum -- specifically, the stickies. More specifically, "A communist faq by Engels". There's also the Consolidated Learning FAQ that's got a big reading list if you want to dive into that.

go to marxists.org if you're looking for something written by any particular marxist or anarchist writer.

Ask questions. Most folks around here nowadays aren't far ahead of you in terms of walking knowledge, so don't feel intimidated or anything.


LOL!! thank you it looks like there's a delay or something on these posts. I thought my first post got deleted because it has the word bastard in it so re-wrote, it looks like the mods just reorganized it or something:rolleyes:

Thanks for the welcome

[citizen of industry]

First assignment: Go to the bookstore and pick up some Marx. Use internet resources to clarify any parts you don't understand. "The philosophers have only interpreted the world in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." - join the movement. Parties, unions, affinity groups, Occupy, etc. Look around your area and see what's there. My two cents.

[Yazman]

Welcome to Revleft!

Please make sure to take a look at the rules:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/faq.php?faq=general#faq_faqforumrules

If you see anybody breaking them and it looks like nobody has noticed, or if you feel somebody has been trolling or flaming you, or you have other sorts of problems while you're here please make sure to notify myself or any of the other mods!

I hope you'll enjoy your time here!

[seventeethdecember2016]

There is nothing worthwhile in any ideology, whether Capitalism or Communism. If your interested in Communism, do a little reading on it and perhaps turn it into a hobby of sorts.
Human societies have to develop Socialism long before it can even think about Communism, and, honestly, you won't be seeing Communism in your lifetime.

But hey, if you'd like to go around claiming you're enlightened, like some 18th century character, go right ahead.

Imagine the classless, stateless, world society where the means of production are commonly owned. Where abundance is the universal law. Where the idea of nation and race are torn asunder!
And then open your eyes to the trash heap of Capitalism.
My friend, we've got work to do! Grab your hammer, and your sickle, and let's build the conditions required to build Communism!

Or you could simply not waste your time, and watch the conditions to build themselves. Either way, the end result will be Socialism and then Communism.

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

Welcome :) Here's hoping that you get the info / knowledge you seek and have some great discussions and, dare I say it, find new comrades and friends.

[RedAtheist]

SO I'm actually embarrassed to sign up here. I'm an ex-wall st banker, currently working customer service ripping off old folks (don't ask)

I'm not educated in communism (especially compared to some of you) I don't know who tito is, or what roosterism is, or what the definitions of proletariat or buogousie are. I'll look themup later just wanted everyone to know that these are all new things to me so please forgive my future ignorance.

Im know thnking o getting bank nto banking, i have to renew my licenses but i'm thinking about not going back. I screwed over alot of people and I don't know if I should keep doing it

first I was moderate, then democrat, then liberal, then socialist, now I'm thinking of becoming a full blown commie

SO what's my first assignment?

You've already been told who Tito is, so I'll move onto your question about the bourgeoisie and the proletariat.

Bourgeousie = the class that owns the means of production, distribution and exchange and hence has control over most of the economy. Also knowns as the capitalist class. People who are not familiar with Marxism think the term capitalist refers to someone with a lot of money (a high income.) Capitalists do have a lot of money but this a symptom of being a capitalist, not the essense of it (i.e. if you own and control a corporation you can that wealth produced by the company goes to you and not the workers.)

Proletariat = the class that does not own or control any means of production, distribution or exchange (at least none that are used to generate profit.) Members of the proletariat therefore make a living by selling their labour to a company rather than selling products to consumers. This class is more often called the working class. Once against non-Marxists identify workers by their income or what they own or what kind of work they do, with recognising that poverty (for the less fortunate section of the working class) is the result of being a worker, not the defining feature.

I think these definitions are essential to one's understanding of communism. I suggest you pay careful attention to them if you are going to call yourself a communist. People who are unfamiliar with these definitions think communists want to do away with classes by redistributing wealth (taxing those who make a lot of money and giving healthcare to those who don't.) If you understand what the essential features of the two classes are, then you understand that in order to abolish classes it is the power of the bourgeoisie over production that must first be broken, in order to address the unequal distribution of wealth (which they are primarily responsible for given their power over the ecnomy.)

I'm going to recommend you read Engels' 'Socialism:Utopian and Scientific'. especially the third chapter and the Communist Manifesto. Personally I'm not a fan of Engel's communism FAQ, which somebody listed eariler, since it is structure too much like a religious catechism, although it to provides a good explanation of communist ideas.

[Art Vandelay]

I think the first task of any genuine revolutionary is to grasp fully and completely the lessons of scientific roosterism. Which is the highest development of marxist thought.

[Drosophila]

First assignment: Go to the bookstore and pick up some Marx.

Or you can get everything by Marx online at any of these sites:

http://www.marxists.org/

http://www.marx2mao.com/

[harte.beest]

Thanks everyone! I've been reading through alot of the threads and I'm learning alot! (I feel like I'm in college again :rolleyes:)

I'm about halfway through "Engel's communism FAQ", and I plan on reading up on the 'Socialism:Utopian and Scientific' on marxist .org afterwards, thanks to everyone who sent me information via PM I really do appreciate it!

As I understand, I shouldn't ask question here, so I started a new thread: Money? (in the learning section)

Just a few question about the communist money system, I'm sure they have all been asked before, but I've already got long reading list, anyways I'd appreciate some help :D

[Sputnik_1]

roosterism is a joke and isn't a real tendency.

says who?

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

Does anyone else thinks it's fucking awesome Rooster was mentioned in the same sentence as Tito? I do.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Does anyone else thinks it's fucking awesome Rooster was mentioned in the same sentence as Tito? I do.

Yeah, they're both capitalists. One is so ultra-left that he is pretty much asking for any attempt at socialism to degenerate into capitalism; the other is a right-deviationist who at least did something for his people and with his life.

[Sputnik_1]

Yeah, they're both capitalists. One is so ultra-left that he is pretty much asking for any attempt at socialism to degenerate into capitalism; the other is a right-deviationist who at least did something for his people and with his life.

You amuse me.
What exactly is this claim based on?

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

You amuse me.
What exactly is this claim based on?

My ability to read.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

Remember that there is more than one type of "communism".

There is left communism (the school of thought I subscribe to), Stalinism (members of this group like to be called Marxism-Leninism), Trotskyism, Anarchism, etc. etc. etc.

Don't jump into tendencies right away, a time will come for that. You should be worried about the basics right now, something new people fail to do usually.

I would suggest this for sure. I think this writing, which is by Engels and not Marx, is much more important than the Communist Manifesto.

Principles of Communism (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm)

I would suggest reading basic Marxist writings, such as those found in Tucker's Marx-Engels reader.

If you have any questions, don't be afraid to ask me or post in the learning section.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

My ability to read.

Then perhaps it would be wise to work on your reading comprehension.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

Also, some writings in my signature (the think under the line) might help out (or confuse you :) )

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Then perhaps it would be wise to work on your reading comprehension.

Cool insult. Even a third grader could tell that Rooster is just an idiot who spends all of his time trolling Marxist-Leninists.

[Tim Finnegan]

Yeah, they're both capitalists. One is so ultra-left that he is pretty much asking for any attempt at socialism to degenerate into capitalism; the other is a right-deviationist who at least did something for his people and with his life.
That's one thing you'll have to get used to, Harte- fifteen year old "Marxist-Leninsts" who think that dogmas which were shitty in 1928 are not only relevant today, but somehow better than ever. They're pretty much idiots, but it's fun to poke 'em.

[Koba Junior]

I would recommend reading Karl Marx by Lenin. It is an outstanding biographical sketch and outline of the basics of socialism by one of the greatest revolutionaries to have ever lived.

[ВАЛТЕР]

I would suggest you read "Why Marx was Right" by Terry Eagleton. Not because it is a very in-depth book on Marxism, but because it brings up common positions and accusations thrown against Marxism and breaks them down. A good read for people just getting into Marxism.

I would also suggest getting a hold of Lenin's "Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism". It is an easy read and is one of my personal favorite works.


Don't worry about tendencies this or that. Stick to basic Marxism for now.

[ed miliband]

Remember that there is more than one type of "communism".

There is left communism (the school of thought I subscribe to), Stalinism (members of this group like to be called Marxism-Leninism), Trotskyism, Anarchism, etc. etc. etc.

Don't jump into tendencies right away, a time will come for that. You should be worried about the basics right now, something new people fail to do usually.

I would suggest this for sure. I think this writing, which is by Engels and not Marx, is much more important than the Communist Manifesto.

Principles of Communism (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm)

I would suggest reading basic Marxist writings, such as those found in Tucker's Marx-Engels reader.

If you have any questions, don't be afraid to ask me or post in the learning section.


if you're a left-com why do you consider stalinism a "type" [sic] of communism?

[Koba Junior]

That's one thing you'll have to get used to, Harte- fifteen year old "Marxist-Leninsts" who think that dogmas which were shitty in 1928 are not only relevant today, but somehow better than ever. They're pretty much idiots, but it's fun to poke 'em.

I love the bizarre, childish hostility that permeates the board sometimes.

[#FF0000]

lol

[Jimmie Higgins]

SO I'm actually embarrassed to sign up here. I'm an ex-wall st banker, currently working customer service ripping off old folks (don't ask)

I'm not educated in communism (especially compared to some of you) I don't know who tito is, or what roosterism is, or what the definitions of proletariat or buogousie are. I'll look themup later just wanted everyone to know that these are all new things to me so please forgive my future ignorance.

Im know thnking o getting bank nto banking, i have to renew my licenses but i'm thinking about not going back. I screwed over alot of people and I don't know if I should keep doing it

first I was moderate, then democrat, then liberal, then socialist, now I'm thinking of becoming a full blown commie

SO what's my first assignment?
Welcome.

Yeah, the best advice is to read and talk to people - real life interaction is better, but this site works in a pinch (it seems to work better at being a place for the already radicalized to joke around though:lol: - but the learning section is more well-behaved if you are wanting to talk about some of the basics of politics).

Also, I would just add, don't quit your job for moral reasons - if you can't stand it and it's causing you stress to have to do things you don't want to, then that's one thing. If you have a better or at least more enjoyable alternative option, then go for it. But even low-level customer service people end up having to screw over people to do their jobs "correctly" sometimes. Do what you need to do to secure a life and income for yourself - having a professional job usually just means you have more mobility and more choices, not that you are outside the conditions of this society.

The "moral" action that a socialist or communist can do is not lifestyle choices in my view, but getting involved in action, trying to help mobilize working class and popular movements, helping to try and connect radical ideas to real-life struggles of people.

Of course sometimes to know what action to take you have to feel confident in the ideas behind the action and how to go about the action in the most effective way. So your assignment :lol: is to find your political barrings and then once you feel confident to do so, go out there and help people to help themselves (in the larger political-social sense).

[Jimmie Higgins]

Cool insult. Even a third grader could tell that Rooster is just an idiot who spends all of his time trolling Marxist-Leninists.Can people take this out of introduction threads and learning threads please.

[Rooster]

Try this:

http://kapitalism101.wordpress.com/

Look up the part on the law of value on the right hand side. You might find it interesting. It's a fairly good introduction to Marxian economics with a series of videos on some subjects with expanded transcripts. It goes by fairly quickly but you can watch it as many times as you want.

[Prometeo liberado]

Get down with your bad self banky! Shit, a week ago I probably would have pushed you in front of a bus just to see if you bled money-green! But I respect busses. Welcome........comrade?

p.s. Start with something simple that should set the stage for anger and questions as to "the what", read Peoples History of the U.S. by Howard Zinn.
Then move on to "the how" part of exploitation and move on to Marx. As a banker Capital, especially Vol. 1, should be a relatively easy read.

p.p.s. Be carefull waiting for the bus.

[Railyon]

Don't worry about tendencies this or that. Stick to basic Marxism for now.

Also my recommendation. Once you got the basics down the rest flows from there.

[Ocean Seal]

That's one thing you'll have to get used to, Harte- fifteen year old "Marxist-Leninsts" who think that dogmas which were shitty in 1928 are not only relevant today, but somehow better than ever. They're pretty much idiots, but it's fun to poke 'em.
And you'll also have to get used to the very educated ultra-leftists who rely on aged dogmas from 1914 which if you'll look at the history of their organizational accomplishments, pretty much amounts to calling everyone who doesn't agree with them 15.

You'll find good posters across tendencies, but do yourself a favor and don't take the "serious" posters too seriously. Some of the best posters around here are the ones who speak in a chill tone.

[Ocean Seal]

if you're a left-com why do you consider stalinism a "type" [sic] of communism?
Do we really need this in this thread? It wasn't a question of making a claim of the revolutionary/reactionary/reformist nature of Stalinism, it was just presenting all of the tendencies for this new member.

[Tim Finnegan]

I would also suggest getting a hold of Lenin's "Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism". It is an easy read and is one of my personal favorite works.
It's pretty outdated, mind, so I can't say that I recommend it for anyone who isn't specifically studying Lenin. Better to start with a more up-to-date text on imperialism, maybe some of Chomsky's stuff.


And you'll also have to get used to the very educated ultra-leftists who rely on aged dogmas from 1914 which if you'll look at the history of their organizational accomplishments, pretty much amounts to calling everyone who doesn't agree with them 15.
Fuck you, man, my dogmas are from 1978.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

if you're a left-com why do you consider stalinism a "type" [sic] of communism?

Because I was giving an unbiased answer to someone asking a question and I do not feel the need/nor is this the place to start a sectarian shitstorm.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

Do we really need this in this thread? It wasn't a question of making a claim of the revolutionary/reactionary/reformist nature of Stalinism, it was just presenting all of the tendencies for this new member.

Could not have said it better myself

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

Cool insult. Even a third grader could tell that Rooster is just an idiot who spends all of his time trolling Marxist-Leninists.

Oh comrade of little faith, how I pity you. :(

You do not know the splendors that is Roosterist Thought but with a little practice perhaps one day you will drink of it's sweet, sweet waters of class enlightenment.

[harte.beest]

Just so everyone knows I feel very stupid for thinking roosterism was an actual school of philosphy, and yes I really did think there was communist leader who's was named Mr. Rooster.

So thanks for not making too much fun of me!:)

I love how everyone is fighting over which tendency I should be joining, but I won't be making a decision for awhile (atleast until I learn what their definitions actually are LOL!!!)

@Jbeard... stop pushing bankers in front of busses, start handing them propaganda, some of them can be deprogrammed........... ;)

[Rafiq]

What? Become a Marxist or Anarchist. Choose wisely. Build off from there (should you be a Marxist, be consistent).

Acknowledge Communism isn't much if you aren't a proletarian, without those two theoretical bases.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

[che]

Read some books by communist authors, first one that comes to mind is "The Communist Manifesto". Besides that do a little research, but make sure you'r always hearing both sides of the argument. I think hearing both sides is how most people become communist.

[Jack]

Jesus christ every thread gets turned into a tendency war.

[Thornbrier]

As an under-read new member I have still found this thread quite useful, despite the 'tendency' bickering.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Acknowledge Communism isn't much if you aren't a proletarian, without those two theoretical bases.Not sure what is meant by this. Communism isn't identity politics for workers. I've been a wage earner for just a little over half my life at this point and have $400 in savings and no real assets or benefits or retirement. Sure, my class position and life experiences made me receptive to these revolutionary arguments, but plenty of people who worked shoulder to shoulder with me never became revolutionaries. So I think if a banker or some professional or academic looks at this world and comes to the conclusion that capitalism is fucked (a lot do) and then side with the working class and advocate a society based on worker's rule (of those who decide capitalism is shit only a tiny minority then find a proactive alternative let alone side with workers), then I'd call them comrade any day.

Not being a worker would make it difficult to lead a strike or impact things directly at the point of production, sure, but people can still fight in solidarity with strikers and class struggle is more generalized with many fronts and ways people can support - working, unemployed, students - supported by small business people or professionals or academics who've made a conscious decision to side with the working class in class struggle.

[Revolution starts with U]

Honestly I see no reason one cannot be a marxist anarchist... unless of course you disregard "marxism" as an analysis if history, and start to make dogma out of Marx's political proscriptions.

Welcome to the board banking comrade. Do what your heart and mind tell you, read about what communism is really about. And if you want to continue banking, but not be as much of a capitalist pig dog, look into cooperative banking and micro lending :thumbup1:

[KingoftheSwing]

Honestly I see no reason one cannot be a marxist anarchist...
Exactly, I for example believe in some kind of anarcho-marxism. In which a communist partie might be necessary to rise awareness and lead the revolution, but dissappears after the revolution. Then, the government becomes like a big coöperation led by the people. I believe if the people have no control, the system is not sustainable.
There are even villages and cities running like this, however very few and never on a large scale.