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Jimmy Haddow (SPS)
10th May 2012, 12:23
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/60139000/jpg/_60139795_014712300-1.jpg Union leaders say up to 400,000 workers will strike while the government says it will be half that

Hundreds of thousands of public sector workers are taking part in a 24-hour UK-wide strike in a dispute with the government over pension changes.

The government says current pension schemes are unfair - and unaffordable because people are living longer.
But the unions say members are being "robbed" and will have to pay more and work longer for lower pensions.
Meanwhile, the government has said that walkouts by prison service staff in England and Wales are unlawful.
Among the public sector workers taking part in the 24-hour strike are civil servants, NHS workers - including paramedics - border force staff and lecturers.
And 20,000 off-duty police officers are expected at a rally in London to protest against cuts.
Union leaders say up to 400,000 workers will strike while the government says it is more likely to be half that number.
Mark Serwotka, general secretary of the PCS union - which estimates that an "overwhelming majority" of its 250,000 public sector members are on strike - told BBC Radio 5 live the cost of pensions was falling as a proportion of GDP.

I'm disappointed that a handful of unions are striving to carry on with union action which is going to benefit no-one and is going to inconvenience the public” Lady Warsi Conservative Party chairman


"We pay more and not a penny goes into anybody's pension fund," he said.
"In every major public sector scheme - health, education and the civil service - the majority of trade unions have refused to accept these cuts in their pensions."
He added: "We're going to have the highest pension age of any western European country."
The government plans to raise the retirement age in line with the state pension age - eventually to rise to 68.
But Conservative Party chairman Lady Warsi told BBC News that workers were being asked to "to work a little bit longer and to pay a bit more but they will be guaranteed a pension which is index-linked and inflation proof".
"I'm disappointed that a handful of unions are striving to carry on with union action which is going to benefit no-one and is going to inconvenience the public."


Strike action includes:

Business hit at the Welsh Assembly as Labour and Plaid Cymru members refuse to cross picket lines while National Museum for Wales closed to public, PCS says
About 5,000 NHS workers on strike in Wales with patients facing delays rather than cancellation, the BBC's Hywel Griffith says
Work on Royal Fleet Auxiliary ships in port in Birkenhead and Portland halted, according to the Rail Maritime and Transport union
Seven national museums as well as Tate Gallery closed in Liverpool, PCS says
Picket line outside the HQ of Maritime and Coastguard Agency in Southampton
30,000 PCS members striking in Scotland, the union says, with picket lines at job centres, tax offices, Scottish government offices, the Scottish Parliament, Faslane nuclear base and both Edinburgh and Stirling Castles
Prison officers across Scotland have walked out
'Ultimate public service'
Government proposals to be considered in Parliament - as featured in the Public Service Pensions Bill detailed in the Queen's Speech on Wednesday - seek substantially increased employee contributions.

Thursday's protest is to all intents and purposes a traditional piece of industrial action, albeit by people who cannot withdraw their labour”

BBC home affairs correspondent Dominic Casciani

Why officers are taking to the street (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/18018990%20-%20Police%20fight%20to%20see%20off%20changes)
As well as increasing the retirement age, the government also proposes that final-salary schemes will eventually be replaced by less generous career-average schemes.
In a central London march, thousands of off-duty officers are expected to take part in the biggest police rally since a 2008 protest against a pay award imposed by the Labour government.
Organiser the Police Federation said its members - who are prevented by law from taking industrial action - were protesting against a reduction in the number of officers, a lack of consultation over plans for reform, and pay and pensions.
The federation's PC Julie Nesbitt told BBC Radio 4's Today programme the police service was "the ultimate public service".
"We are the people without whom the rest of the public services shouldn't function and therefore we should be treated according to that," she said.
"And, also, we don't have the same rights as others in the public sector so we don't have industrial rights so we can't do anything about the poor treatment we are receiving."

BBC Home Affairs correspondent Dominic Casciani said the police protest was, to all intents and purposes, a traditional piece of industrial action, albeit by people who cannot withdraw their labour (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/18018990).
'Too fast'
Shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper, who is marching with police officers today, said 16,000 were being lost across the country which was "irresponsible and taking a risk with crime".
She told BBC News that Labour supported some cuts but added: "The government is going too far and too fast, the sheer scale of the cuts that they are making is deeply damaging.

If there is a surprise at the action today, it is that we haven't seen more of it. ”

BBC home editor Mark Easton

Striking while the iron is cool (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/18018051%20-%20Striking%20while%20the%20iron%20is%20cool)
"The fragmented and chaotic way in which they're making reforms is, in fact, likely to make it worse and make it harder to get good results in the community and and bring crime down."
But Policing Minister Nick Herbert told 5 live: "Police officers will continue to be rewarded for doing an exceptional job but they do earn more than other members of the emergency services and are able to earn overtime."
On public sector pensions generally he said: "If you were in the private sector and you had to pay for the equivalent pensions that are going to be provided it would cost you around a third of pay.
"Isn't this a question of fairness for the majority of taxpayers who aren't in receipt of these pensions?"
Meanwhile at Heathrow Airport, where border staff are striking, the BBC's Tom Symonds said most passengers had passed through without problems.
But there had been some long queues at Terminal Three with some non-European Economic Area passengers queuing for about an hour-and-a-half, according to airport sources.
This would worry a prime minister whose central mission was the idea of building an active citizenry, he added.
The unions taking part on Thursday are: the Public and Commercial Services Union (PCS), the largest civil service trade union; Unite, representing NHS workers, Ministry of Defence firefighters and others; the University and College Union; the Immigration Services Union; Rail, Maritime and Transport (RMT) union members in the Royal Fleet Auxiliary, and the Northern Ireland Public Services Alliance.

campesino
10th May 2012, 12:41
In the U.K is there media animosity toward trade union and public sector workers, like here in the U.S.A. The media here blames, "greedy unions" for job losses due to free trade, and government budgets deficits. This article isn't friendly to labor.

Jimmy Haddow (SPS)
10th May 2012, 12:48
I went to two picket Lines in Edinburgh, Scottish Government house and the Scottish Parliament, in what was torrential downpours of rain. The mood I would say was determined but also hoping it would galvanise future action, The Labour Party MSPs walked through the picket lines by the way. And if I was in London I would go on the Police Federation March. What is absolutely brilliant is the 2,500 prison officers in Scotland have joined a strike of public sector workers protesting about pensions. The staff walked out at 6 am despite a voluntary deal the Prison Officers' Association has with the Scottish Prison Service not to strike. It is illegal for prison officers in England and Wales to strike, but not in Scotland. Although officers in England and Wales are outlawed from striking, many have walked out and are supporting the strike.



I would like to suggest that the brilliant strike action today gives answer to the sectarian doubters about the PCS leadership on the question of delaying the strike from the 28 March to today. If the PCS had gone on strike on the 28 March untold damage would have been done to the union and its membership, along with the rest of the British trade union movement.

bricolage
10th May 2012, 13:05
I went to check out what was going on this morning, the local jobcentre was open with no picket line, there was a semi-decent Unite one at the hospital which was good.

unlike jimmy haddow I have no interest in going on the police march. for reasons that shouldn't need explaining to the 'revolutionary left'.

bricolage
10th May 2012, 13:20
Some of the public sector marchers applauded the police, but some shouted abuse, including: “Don’t forget what you did to the miners.”
more of the latter please.

bricolage
10th May 2012, 14:00
here's a nice advert the police federation took out today showing the poor vicitmised coppers having to deal with the feral underclass...
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/05/10/article-2142245-1304E3A8000005DC-447_634x852.jpg

Geiseric
10th May 2012, 14:53
This so reminds me of robocop. So conflicted... What if the army went on strike, would that be supported?

Left Leanings
10th May 2012, 15:49
To all the workers who took industrial action, and to those who supported them, nice one.

As for the Police Federation: fuck off.

As the posters above have commented, don't forget the way the miners were treated back in the day, fighting to keep the pits open. The closures led to widespread social devastation and poverty in parts of Britain, most notably Wales, where in some parts, the mines were effectively the only source of locally available employment.

And fuck the BBC as well. They showed reverse footage of the disputes. It was the police who attacked the miners first. But the tossers at the BBC (being Establishment lackeys and tools), were more than happy to make it appear as though the miners had been the aggressors :star:

Ocean Seal
10th May 2012, 15:57
With regards to the police demonstration. I have no interest in standing in solidarity with them, but isn't this basically a blank cheque for communists/anarchists? I mean there are no cops on the street and it could be a powerful instance of showing the power of the workers.

Left Leanings
10th May 2012, 15:59
With regards to the police demonstration. I have no interest in standing in solidarity with them, but isn't this basically a blank cheque for communists/anarchists? I mean there are no cops on the street and it could be a powerful instance of showing the power of the workers.

Nope.

Cos it was only off-duty police who participated in the demos/rallies.

The 'duty car' was still on patrol, so to speak :crying:

Brosip Tito
10th May 2012, 16:05
The Harper government in Canada has increased the retirement age of public workers from 60 to 65.

It's also cut tens of thousands of jobs.

I doubt they'll strike or even fuss to much.

ed miliband
10th May 2012, 16:22
lol: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/may/10/left-issue-with-police-officers

bricolage
10th May 2012, 16:48
space hijackers went around handing out bust cards to the police march and made these placards...
http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg876/scaled.php?tn=0&server=876&filename=8ahsc.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640

Vanguard1917
11th May 2012, 00:06
With regards to the police demonstration. I have no interest in standing in solidarity with them, but isn't this basically a blank cheque for communists/anarchists? I mean there are no cops on the street and it could be a powerful instance of showing the power of the workers.

As a previous poster pointed out, it was off-duty filth on the march; the number of police at the disposal of the capitalist state remained unaffected.

More widely, though, supporting a march which demands more officers in the police force is clearly idiotic from a socialist standpoint. Furthermore, the Police Federation (the cops' "union") has no opposition to spending cuts in themselves. It merely thinks that the police should be specially protected from them. Its Chairman, Paul McKeever, was on the BBC this afternoon complaining about the supposedly disproportionate cuts that the police are having to face compared with other parts of the public sector. In other words: "What happened to our special relationship with the ruling class?"

Jeraldi
11th May 2012, 01:00
well there is a benefit to any government pissing off the police - pissed off cops leaves a more vulnerable ruling class - giving us more of a chance to undermine them :thumbup:

Jimmy Haddow (SPS)
12th May 2012, 15:57
Below are videos of Bob Crow, General Secretary of the RMT, and Mark Serwotka, PCS General Secretary, speaking at different rallies of striking public sector workers on the 10 May 2012.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5t6hUgqg6s&feature=share (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5t6hUgqg6s&feature=share)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9q2RnI7zXs&feature=relmfu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9q2RnI7zXs&feature=relmfu)


Report from the Socialist Party about the police demonstration in London on the same day.

Angry police demonstration against cuts and privatisation!

On the same day as the public sector workers' pensions strike, 10 May, the Police Federation called a demonstration in London to protest at attacks to the police service.


Their issues included 20% cuts to the police service, which is leading to redundancies, opposition to the Winsor Report on the Police Service, which includes cuts to pay levels and conditions on top of a two-year pay freeze and increased pension contributions, and opposition to privatisation of core police functions.


Socialists who went to intervene in the police demo were wondering what the response would be. The answer surprised us.


An estimated 35,000 off-duty officers marched, fuming with the government over the above issues. So much so that they snatched all the leaflets from the handful of Socialist Party members there - we underestimated the response we would get! - and over 50 copies of the Socialist were sold.


Many officers politely declined to take leaflets or buy our paper. Some said they were non-political and were surprised to learn how many of their colleagues had bought a copy.


But there were very few hostile responses. And we made it clear to those who wanted to talk that we have strong criticisms of the policing of demos, picket lines and communities [see articles: Grim toll for hidden police racism and After the Riots)


But we welcomed any action that brought the Police Federation and ordinary police officers closer to the trade union movement if they are going into conflict with their employers, the government and police authorities.


We supported their right to strike, which they may ballot for soon and will have to fight for if they win the ballot.


But this is truly the sign of a government and capitalist society on the rocks when sections of its state feel the need to demonstrate against it! The police are used by the government to frighten people off from demonstrating, as brutally experienced by students in 2010, but developments like this could help to weaken their use against strikers and demonstrators in the future.

Kevin Parlsow

Jimmy Haddow (SPS)
12th May 2012, 16:31
I would like to make a brief observation on the ultra-left and sectarian comments in relation to the police, and prison officers, action on the 10 May in Britain. You sectarians can only see one side of the issue and that is the reactionary repressive role of the police as an instrument of state repression. The police, and other state forces, do play an aggressive and repressive role on many occasions against striking workers, at demonstrations, against the Occupy movement and so on. But support for trade union rights for the police ranks, (or prison officers or for the armed forces ranks for that matter), and support of industrial action does not cloud for one moment the Marxist analysis that I, or the Socialist Party/CWI of the role of the police and armed forces as part of the State Apparatus, or undermine the recognition of the need to organise against police or military repression.

This is only one side of the question, the other side of a socialist programme is a policy of making a political appeal to the ranks of the police, prison officers, and armed forces and supporting their democratic rights, including the right to organise in a democratically controlled trade union. Anything that weakens the authoritarian control of the State over the ranks of the police, prison officers and armed forces and bring their ranks, or even a section of their ranks nearer to the workers’ movement helps create more favourable conditions of struggle for the working class. But I am afraid that these ABC strategies of socialist politics are lost on these sectarian comrades.

ed miliband
12th May 2012, 17:03
"SECTARIAN" "ULTRA-LEFT"

when you are very fucking wrong about something start throwing names at those who are correct.

Left Leanings
12th May 2012, 17:17
As a previous poster pointed out, it was off-duty filth on the march; the number of police at the disposal of the capitalist state remained unaffected.

More widely, though, supporting a march which demands more officers in the police force is clearly idiotic from a socialist standpoint. Furthermore, the Police Federation (the cops' "union") has no opposition to spending cuts in themselves. It merely thinks that the police should be specially protected from them. Its Chairman, Paul McKeever, was on the BBC this afternoon complaining about the supposedly disproportionate cuts that the police are having to face compared with other parts of the public sector. In other words: "What happened to our special relationship with the ruling class?"

Exactly, comrade.

Awww, bless. The poor lil piggsies.

They got no sympathy from me. The message is as always: fuck the police :star:

bricolage
12th May 2012, 17:35
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]This is only one side of the question, the other side of a socialist programme is a policy of making a political appeal to the ranks of the police, prison officers, and armed forces and supporting their democratic rights, including the right to organise in a democratically controlled trade union.
no. 'socialist programmes' don't recognise 'democratic rights' of the police.
if they want to engage in industrial action they can quit their jobs, otherwise they are class enemies. end of.
but sure keep selling papers to cops, i'm sure it will really help next time they're waving truncheons around.

Proteus
12th May 2012, 20:07
Shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper told BBC News that Labour supported some cuts but added: "The government is going too far and too fast, the sheer scale of the cuts that they are making is deeply damaging.."

This is how the Labour Party sets itself apart from the Tories and expects to gain people's support: by basically applying the same cuts but slower. Yvette Cooper could do more for working class people if she threw herself off Lambeth Bridge.

Left Leanings
12th May 2012, 20:13
This is how the Labour Party sets itself apart from the Tories and expects to gain people's support: by basically applying the same cuts but slower. Yvette Cooper could do more for working class people if she threw herself off Lambeth Bridge.

And if she doesn't throw herself off, can someone please push her :D :star:

Vanguard1917
13th May 2012, 14:35
I would like to make a brief observation on the ultra-left and sectarian comments in relation to the police, and prison officers, action on the 10 May in Britain. You sectarians can only see one side of the issue and that is the reactionary repressive role of the police as an instrument of state repression. The police, and other state forces, do play an aggressive and repressive role on many occasions against striking workers, at demonstrations, against the Occupy movement and so on. But support for trade union rights for the police ranks, (or prison officers or for the armed forces ranks for that matter), and support of industrial action does not cloud for one moment the Marxist analysis that I, or the Socialist Party/CWI of the role of the police and armed forces as part of the State Apparatus, or undermine the recognition of the need to organise against police or military repression.

If socialists should oppose the bulking up of the police force, and if the Police Federation calls for precisely that, how would we justify socialist support for that organisation?