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View Full Version : What if Chavez is sicker than the Venezuelan govt is letting on?



Sinister Cultural Marxist
6th May 2012, 17:26
Here's an article from that most bourgeois of economic analysis magazines ...

http://www.economist.com/blogs/americasview/2012/05/venezuelan-politics


Venezuelan politics

A modest concession to reality

May 5th 2012, 19:16 by P.G. | CARACAS



EVER since Hugo Chávez, Venezuela’s president, admitted nearly a year ago that he was suffering from cancer, his spokespeople have insisted that no substitute would be required. They have insisted that the president is sure to be cured—though without issuing any medical bulletins as proof—making talk of invalidity or death strictly taboo. This week, however, that façade at last began to crack.
Just before Mr Chávez left for another round of treatment in Cuba on May 1st, he named a new “council of state”, headed by Elías Jaua, the vice-president. The constitution Mr Chávez himself got passed in 1999 mandated that he form this advisory body. It is supposed to consist of five members selected by the president, one by state governors, one by the legislature and the last by the supreme court. But since the president rarely consults and virtually never delegates— his decisions are so personal they often take even close collaborators by surprise—he had never bothered to set it up in practice.
Only the council’s five presidential nominees, plus the vice-president, have so far been appointed. But the rest are likely to be unconditional presidential loyalists as well. So long as the head of state retains full use of his faculties, the council’s role is likely to be limited to taking orders. The first was imparted publicly: Mr Chávez instructed it to come up with a plan for Venezuela’s withdrawal from the Inter-American Human Rights Commission, a branch of the Organisation of American States. The presence on the council of several prominent critics of international human-rights bodies suggests no one is likely to demur.
Nonetheless, the decision clearly looks like the government’s first public recognition that the omnipresent president’s illness may curtail his ability to govern. After 12 years under Mr Chávez, Venezuelans have grown accustomed to his frequent, lengthy appearances on live television. They are are now a rarity. If the president intended his speech before his departure this week to reassure, it had the opposite effect. By the end, as he spoke of returning to Venezuela, he was obviously close to tears.
In late April senior members of the ruling Socialist party held a meeting to discuss three scenarios for the presidential elections due in October: that Mr Chávez would be weakened, absent entirely, or that the vote would be suspended. Party spokesmen later denied that such talk had taken place. But several independent journalists who had gained access to the meeting insisted they had heard it.
The makeup of the council has led to talk of an eventual presidential transition. The Socialists have been wracked by infighting (http://www.economist.com/blogs/americasview/2012/03/venezuelan-politics) since Mr Chávez fell ill, and the advisory body could conceivably serve as a de facto Politburo. It includes both Mr Jaua, who if he remains in his post would act as president if Mr Chávez is absent, and José Vicente Rangel, a former vice-president and veteran politician with a broad range of contacts. Mr Jaua is a plausible candidate to succeed Mr Chávez, while Mr Rangel was probably appointed for his vast experience, political contacts and nerves of steel.
But 12 years of one-man rule cannot be undone simply by forming a committee. Only Mr Chávez, who is trying to run the country remotely while undergoing treatment in Cuba, has the authority to knock heads together. Polls suggest that none of the available substitute Socialist presidential candidates would enthuse the electorate. The radical left, as well as political players with too much to lose from a change of regime, might try to ditch the constitution and rule by force. That could split the army and cause chaos. For now, the fiction of business as usual is being maintained. With every passing day, however, it seems less plausible.

If it were to happen, Mr Jaua and Mr Rangel seem like better alternatives than the militarists and the "boli-bourgeoisie". From what I understand, they are actually (at least to a point) ideological leftists, as opposed to people from the military or "leftwing-capitalist" institutions.

Does someone think the folks at the economist and other conservative media outlets are right that Chavez's cancer is worse than he's letting on? What would be the ramifications of his retirement or death in Venezuelan politics, and could the PSUV recover? Or is all of this just the international conservative press getting overly excited at the Nationalist-Social-Democrat's serious illness is making them too ready to believe bad news? Based on the amount of Chemo which Chavez has been going to Cuba for recently, it would hardly be surprising. It could be bad for the PSUV in the next election since Chavez is still the most popular politician in the country (even the economist admits that).

Yuppie Grinder
6th May 2012, 17:47
I wouldn't be surprised. Governments lie about that shit all the time.
The economist is extravagantly overpriced and written for and by sociopathic neoliberals, but I sometimes read at the news stand. There's some good information in there, you just gotta take it with a grain of salt.

eyeheartlenin
7th May 2012, 03:52
In another thread, someone who seemed knowledgeable said that Chávez' having to return to Cuba for a third (?) time was a really bad sign, that the chemo was not working. To state the obvious, and forgive me for doing so, this is the Achilles' heel of personal rule. Thirteen years and the whole thing falls apart when the caudillo gets sick? What an enormous waste of time and effort! Chávez and those who adulate him really messed up! And the whole sad chain of events shows that personal rule is light years away from the self-emancipation of labor. And the next election in Venezuela may well see the rightists take over.

TrotskistMarx
7th May 2012, 04:22
Dear friend, the Chaviztas followers and loyal supporters of Hugo Chavez in their website forum http://www.aporrea.org/ offended me, insulted me and called me names and stuff, and told me that i was part of the "escualidos" which is the name they use to label the right-wing voters there. Just because I was a member of their forum site, and I asked them if its true that Hugo Chavez has only year of life because that's what a doctor claimed. They are very partizan and emotional. You know like the dogmatic stalinists of the Soviet USSR empire, who were paranoid because of the cold war and all that.

I think that the Chaviztas must be preventive against right-wingers and US Imperialism. However they shouldn't be so paranoid. An excess of PARANOIA destroys well-being, rational thinking, scientific thinking, self-power and makes your life a hell on earth.

I also read in this forum about some pro-Hugo Chavez gangs hitting people. Man a real socialist should not be evil, against anybody. Opressing, abusing, and destroying the human rights of others when they have political and military power turns people into Nazis and fascists. They are not socialists and marxists.

Thanks


.



Here's an article from that most bourgeois of economic analysis magazines ...

http://www.economist.com/blogs/americasview/2012/05/venezuelan-politics

If it were to happen, Mr Jaua and Mr Rangel seem like better alternatives than the militarists and the "boli-bourgeoisie". From what I understand, they are actually (at least to a point) ideological leftists, as opposed to people from the military or "leftwing-capitalist" institutions.

Does someone think the folks at the economist and other conservative media outlets are right that Chavez's cancer is worse than he's letting on? What would be the ramifications of his retirement or death in Venezuelan politics, and could the PSUV recover? Or is all of this just the international conservative press getting overly excited at the Nationalist-Social-Democrat's serious illness is making them too ready to believe bad news? Based on the amount of Chemo which Chavez has been going to Cuba for recently, it would hardly be surprising. It could be bad for the PSUV in the next election since Chavez is still the most popular politician in the country (even the economist admits that).

Sinister Cultural Marxist
7th May 2012, 04:51
I wouldn't be surprised. Governments lie about that shit all the time.
The economist is extravagantly overpriced and written for and by sociopathic neoliberals, but I sometimes read at the news stand. There's some good information in there, you just gotta take it with a grain of salt.

If I remember correctly, in Das Kapital, Marx actually quotes the Economist prolifically, although he usually pokes fun at the bourgeois biases of its editorial board in the process. You're right ... you take it with a grain of salt but accept that their analysis is pretty good for a staunchly pro-Capitalist publication.


In another thread, someone who seemed knowledgeable said that Chávez' having to return to Cuba for a third (?) time was a really bad sign, that the chemo was not working. To state the obvious, and forgive me for doing so, this is the Achilles' heel of personal rule. Thirteen years and the whole thing falls apart when the caudillo gets sick? What an enormous waste of time and effort! Chávez and those who adulate him really messed up! And the whole sad chain of events shows that personal rule is light years away from the self-emancipation of labor. And the next election in Venezuela may well see the rightists take over.

That combined with the fact that he broke into tears praying for his recovery, and that he had more to do for his country, at the Easter Service. Presuming that his religious faith is not just a public show but a deeply held conviction (a reasonable assumption) it is plausible that he is afraid of his own future, also understanding how vulnerable this makes Venezuela's still-nascent "revolution".

I agree about the nature of personal rule. This is an inevitability when one ruler claims to be the messianic figure who can bring labor equality, economic blessings for all, and universal human rights. The fact is that one person does not make a revolution, and placing it upon the shoulder the leader makes the revolution as vulnerable as the health of that person.


TrotskitsMarx-I would not be surprised that party militants treated you like this. What is interesting is their reaction if you are ever proven right. They would not only look like real assholes, but the assumptions upon which they based their political ideology would be revealed to be flawed. Partisans always react with strong words when you challenge the party line.

Art Vandelay
7th May 2012, 08:05
If Chavez is sicker than is being let on and dies...then a bourgeois government's head of state just died; nothing to be concerned about.

REDSOX
7th May 2012, 14:15
I really do wish that comrades would stop posting bourgeois tittle tattle about Hugo Chavez. Its always a tissue of dirty lies, more a reflection of what they would like the truth to be than the actual reality. The bourgeois plays dirty and the media is a arm of that dirtiness. Best ignore it all and wait for the truth to emerge which i am sure will be different

Vladimir Innit Lenin
8th May 2012, 15:20
To state the obvious, and forgive me for doing so, this is the Achilles' heel of personal rule.

Well, no. The achilles heel of personal rule is...personal rule. It is the antipathy of democracy and whilst Chavez has surely enacted many useful (and even very useful!) reforms, he has still merely exercised a friendlier/much friendlier form of Capitalism, as opposed to ever moving towards a revolutionary change of system. But then, how could he, one man, enact a revolution in one country? Impossible task.

ed miliband
8th May 2012, 15:35
If I remember correctly, in Das Kapital, Marx actually quotes the Economist prolifically, although he usually pokes fun at the bourgeois biases of its editorial board in the process. You're right ... you take it with a grain of salt but accept that their analysis is pretty good for a staunchly pro-Capitalist publication.



they have some good stuff sometimes, sure, but the economist of marx's day is an entirely different beast to the economist of today. i recently picked up a copy for a long train ride and i was suprised by how silly a lot of it was. this was just after kim jong il's death and a lot of the "analysis" was essentially just poking fun at north korea - funny, yes, but not very helpful. fuck north korea and kim jong-il, but i expected something a little better...

Die Neue Zeit
9th May 2012, 03:36
I agree about the nature of personal rule. This is an inevitability when one ruler claims to be the messianic figure who can bring labor equality, economic blessings for all, and universal human rights. The fact is that one person does not make a revolution, and placing it upon the shoulder the leader makes the revolution as vulnerable as the health of that person.

That may be true, but mild personality cults have been a very useful tool for class mobilization. It's otherwise called "charisma."

teflon_john
10th May 2012, 18:05
i love it when you post things like that, DNZ.