Was Trotsky an anti-semite?

[Blanquist]

I was just reading his work "what is national socialism" and I saw this line;


The program with which National Socialism came to power reminds one very much – alas – of a Jewish department store in an obscure province. What won’t you find here – cheap in price and in quality still lower! http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/germany/1933/330610.htm

I found this very inappropriate, especially given the context (an outline of Naziism)

[Bostana]

I think Trotsky was a Jew growing up so it would be unlikely for him to be anti-Semitic

[Brosip Tito]

Was Trotsky a self-hating jew? No.

[corolla]

I was just reading his work "what is national socialism" and I saw this line;


I found this very inappropriate, especially given the context (an outline of Naziism)

Why has this troll not been banned yet? Seriously.

[Manic Impressive]

I can find you much worse than that from Engels

[Yuppie Grinder]

Trotsky was ethnically Jewish, so I'd imagine no. Lenin and him made a pretty hard stand against anti-semitism, since it had been made a brutal weapon of class warfare by the Russian nobility in their lifetime.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Trotsky was in no way a self-hating Jew, but that does not make him any smarter.....

Anyways, weren't you just saying.....um....two days ago that Trotsky was better than Marx? Now you are suggesting that he was a self-hating Jew?

[tachosomoza]

Of course not. That's an accusation that's been levied against Marx as well, but Marx was also of Jewish heritage. Criticizing bourgeois activities of those who are identify, or identify themselves as Jews, is not Anti-Semitic, it's class critique. Just like criticizing petty bourgeois/bourgeois aspirations of historically oppressed ethnic groups in West (African Americans/Britons, Irish, etc.) is not racism. Anti-Semites and racists hate individuals simply because of the fact that they are Jewish, Chicano, African descended, etc.

[Jimmie Higgins]

That quote is in poor taste in historical retrospect. I imagine him saying this as part of an act at a comedy Open Mic Night followed by, "Aww-aww, but seriously folks, I'm Jewish so I can say that... where are you lovely folks from? Petrograd, you don't say. That reminds me of a steel facotory I was agitating outside of in Petrorgrad and..."

Yeah, poor taste, but not antisemetic since he was Jewish in background, frequently the target of anti-semetic attacks himself, and the Bolsheviks were strong on recognizing the need to unite the workers struggles with general struggles of the oppressed.

[bolshie]

I believe Hitler thought communism was a Jewish plot

[Grenzer]

Was Trotsky a self-hating jew? No.

Well, it's actually a bit more complicated than this. He had Jewish ancestors, but he emphatically rejected any notion that he himself was Jewish. It wasn't uncommon that Jewish communists would approach him for special favors, which would cause a great deal of anger. He strongly identified as an atheist, and was insulted that he had to be associated with Judaism. Did he hate Judaism? Absolutely not, he just completely rejected the Jewish identity culturally and religiously.

That's actually an entire book devoted to the subject. It's called Leon Trotsky: A Revoutionary's Life from the Jewish Lives book series. I can actually strongly recommend it. The focus of the book is, of course, his life from a biographical standpoint and how his Jewish heritage played a role. It doesn't focus on politics, and avoids making a judgement entirely in this regard; quite rare on the subject of communists..

[Ocean Seal]

I can find you much worse than that from Engels
I'm curious with regards to this. Are you implying that Engels was an anti-semite? I've never actually heard this claim before. Do you have a link?

And it was very unlikely that any of the Bolsheviks were anti-semetic being that their laws explicitly sought to attack anti-semetism as a czarist ruse. Their personal views are probably more muddied.

[MEGAMANTROTSKY]

Along with being a Marxist and a revolutionist, Trotsky was also known as a very skilled writer. His "Jewish department store" came across to me as nothing more than the rhetorical device of irony, after which he exposed and criticized German fascism's indulgence of petty-bourgeois free market myths to the end of the paragraph. I am convinced that if one were to read the article in its entirety rather than engaging in the practice of selective quoting, this context will become clear.

[gorillafuck]

the only explanation for that is that Trotsky liked self deprecating Jewish humor. nothing wrong with that.

[pluckedflowers]

I think the question, and some of the answers it has received, fails in assuming anti-semitism to be simply some character attribute that one either has or doesn't have. Like racism, anti-Semitism was, and is, a structural phenomenon and it is thus entirely unsurprising that discursive reflections of it should surface in the works even of people who don't think the Jews aren't out to conquer the world, eat our children, and corrupt our precious bodily fluids... even people who might happen to be ethnically Jewish.

[Manic Impressive]

I'm curious with regards to this. Are you implying that Engels was an anti-semite? I've never actually heard this claim before. Do you have a link?
I'm not implying that Engels had an irrational hatred of the Jewish people. I am saying that anti-semitism as we would call it today was widely accepted in the 19th century and that things they have said which today are unacceptable shouldn't detract from their theoretical work. I'm also saying that the Trotsky quote was very weak and I've seen far worse from other authors.

Anyway I read this a few weeks back and thought of posting it here but decided against it as some people can get silly over these things and I generally hate threads like this.


I have never seen a class so deeply demoralised, so incurably debased by selfishness, so corroded within, so incapable of progress, as the English bourgeoisie; and I mean by this, especially the bourgeoisie proper, particularly the Liberal, Corn Law repealing bourgeoisie. For it nothing exists in this world, except for the sake of money, itself not excluded. It knows no bliss save that of rapid gain, no pain save that of losing gold. In the presence of this avarice and lust of gain, it is not possible for a single human sentiment or opinion to remain untainted. True, these English bourgeois are good husbands and family men, and have all sorts of other private virtues, and appear, in ordinary intercourse, as decent and respectable as all other bourgeois; even in business they are better to deal with than the Germans; they do not higgle and haggle so much as our own pettifogging merchants; but how does this help matters? Ultimately it is self-interest, and especially money gain, which alone determines them. I once went into Manchester with such a bourgeois, and spoke to him of the bad, unwholesome method of building, the frightful condition of the working-peoples quarters, and asserted that I had never seen so ill-built a city. The man listened quietly to the end, and said at the corner where we parted: "And yet there is a great deal of money made here, good morning, sir." It is utterly indifferent to the English bourgeois whether his working-men starve or not, if only he makes money. All the conditions of life are measured by money, and what brings no money is nonsense, unpractical, idealistic bosh. Hence, Political Economy, the Science of Wealth, is the favourite study of these bartering Jews.

That's actually a very good article which I've posted bits of before except the part where he uses Jews as an insult.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1845/condition-working-class/ch13.htm

I know there are plenty of other examples especially from Engels but I cba to look for more right now and I can't remember specifically where I saw them so I hope this will suffice.

[Robespierres Neck]

This was written by Proudhon (the first person to call himself an anarchist):


December 26, 1847: Jews. Write an article against this race that poisons everything by sticking its nose into everything without ever mixing with any other people. Demand its expulsion from France with the exception of those individuals married to French women. Abolish synagogues and not admit them to any employment. Finally, pursue the abolition of this religion. It’s not without cause that the Christians called them deicide. The Jew is the enemy of humankind. They must be sent back to Asia or be exterminated. By steel or by fire or by expulsion the Jew must disappear.

[Raúl Duke]

I think the question, and some of the answers it has received, fails in assuming anti-semitism to be simply some character attribute that one either has or doesn't have. Like racism, anti-Semitism was, and is, a structural phenomenon and it is thus entirely unsurprising that discursive reflections of it should surface in the works even of people who don't think the Jews aren't out to conquer the world, eat our children, and corrupt our precious bodily fluids... even people who might happen to be ethnically Jewish.

This
and


the only explanation for that is that Trotsky liked self deprecating Jewish humor. nothing wrong with that.

This

I find it unlikely that Trotsky was an anti-semite...consider the irony if it were true considering that Trotsky, as the leader of the Red Army, was a target of anti-semitic anti-communist propaganda from the Whites.

[corolla]

I think the question, and some of the answers it has received, fails in assuming anti-semitism to be simply some character attribute that one either has or doesn't have. Like racism, anti-Semitism was, and is, a structural phenomenon and it is thus entirely unsurprising that discursive reflections of it should surface in the works even of people who don't think the Jews aren't out to conquer the world, eat our children, and corrupt our precious bodily fluids... even people who might happen to be ethnically Jewish.

I don't see what is actually antisemitic about the Trotsky quote, though. :confused:

This was written by Proudhon (the first person to call himself an anarchist):


December 26, 1847: Jews. Write an article against this race that poisons everything by sticking its nose into everything without ever mixing with any other people. Demand its expulsion from France with the exception of those individuals married to French women. Abolish synagogues and not admit them to any employment. Finally, pursue the abolition of this religion. It’s not without cause that the Christians called them deicide. The Jew is the enemy of humankind. They must be sent back to Asia or be exterminated. By steel or by fire or by expulsion the Jew must disappear.

Holy shit, is this for real???

[Anarpest]

I was just reading his work "what is national socialism" and I saw this line;

http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/germany/1933/330610.htm

I found this very inappropriate, especially given the context (an outline of Naziism)

It's a joke, making fun of Nazi anti-Semitism. It would not work in the same way in another context. You are making moneybags out of tuppence.

[Robespierres Neck]

Holy shit, is this for real???

Yes, it's quite well known that he was an anti-Semite.
http://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/economics/proudhon/1847/jews.htm

[Koba Junior]

It's okay: he could joke about that kind of thing since he was Jewish.

[corolla]

Yes, it's quite well known that he was an anti-Semite.
[link]
I have heard that he was an antisemite, but that can entail a pretty wide range of views, anywhere from a quiet distrust of Jews due to the perception that they are insular and tight with money or whatever, to wanting to put them in ovens. I assumed that he, like a lot of people of his time, fell under the former category, as opposed to the 'vocal proponent of genocide' category. That is absolutely shocking. What a total scumbag.

[bolshie]

Along with being a Marxist and a revolutionist, Trotsky was also known as a very skilled writer. His "Jewish department store" came across to me as nothing more than the rhetorical device of irony, after which he exposed and criticized German fascism's indulgence of petty-bourgeois free market myths to the end of the paragraph. I am convinced that if one were to read the article in its entirety rather than engaging in the practice of selective quoting, this context will become clear.

Yeah, it's an interesting article. First he describes how Hitler simply said whatever got him the most applause, and this is how he got to be so popular. Just before the department store bit he says the Nazis exploit antisemitism, and use the fact that a lot of the Jewish bourgeois were in the banking business. He equates the Nazis to the petty bourgeois. So, the petty bourgeois' hatred of the bankers is expressed as anti-semitism. That's how I interpret it anyway.

[tachosomoza]

It's okay: he could joke about that kind of thing since he was Jewish.

Yeah, and I can run around and call people the N-Word and argue for black inferiority since I've got Sub Saharan African ancestry.

[Raúl Duke]

I thought most people already knew Proudhon was an anti-semite?
Except in his case, no one cares because Proudhon is irrelevant to modern anarchism.

SO, to take it back to the original question: Is it important to know if true and to care about Trotsky's alleged antisemitism?
Assuming that he was, which I highly doubt it, what would that discount from his contributions to communist politics?
Is it really an important question?