Does the Marxist Internet Archive have a sect identity?

[RedZezz]

The Marxist Internet Archive stores the works for nearly every writer that labeled himself a Marxist of one variety or another. I always thought that is didn't label itself as being M-L, or Trotskyist, or whatever.

However, when they accused the Chinese government of the 2007 attacks, they specifically rejected that Mao (not only the current Chinese government) was not a Marxist. That entails some identity to a specific sect.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/05/technology/05iht-marx.4474381.html?_r=1

Also, the home page has direct links to Marx/Engels, Lenin, Trotsky, Luxemburg, and Che. Why would they chose these figures? I mean, I am not complaining, given my own political orientation, but I was currious if MIA has a specific identidy aside from general Marxist.

[Ostrinski]

Also, the home page has direct links to Marx/Engels, Lenin, Trotsky, Luxemburg, and Che. Why would they chose these figures? I mean, I am not complaining, given my own political orientation, but I was currious if MIA has a specific identidy aside from general Marxist.I think it's just because they're some of the more popular figures.

[MustCrushCapitalism]

Their site says:

We will always remain politically independent(http://www.marxists.org/admin/intro/index.htm)
So it's probably made up of a few tendencies.

[Q]

The original creators were/are Trotskyists if I remember correctly, but since that that it has attracted quite a few Marxists from all strands that write/publish/translate for the archive.

[Blanquist]

All other the things they publish has no copyright, right? I can copy anything I want onto my site?

[marl]

The original creators were/are Trotskyists if I remember correctly, but since that that it has attracted quite a few Marxists from all strands that write/publish/translate for the archive.

Indeed, you are correct.


All other the things they publish has no copyright, right? I can copy anything I want onto my site?

You just have to cite them correctly.

[Blanquist]

Indeed, you are correct.



You just have to cite them correctly.

Why would I cite them? They did write it, or hold any copyright to it.

[Q]

Why would I cite them? They did write it, or hold any copyright to it.

It appears that MIA is currently down, but according to Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxists_Internet_Archive):


According to the MIA charter, its content will always be offered 100% free. All the material stored in the archives is either public domain, under the GNU Free Documentation License, or used with the copyright holders' permission. Any work created by MIA volunteers is under the Creative Commons Attribute, Share-Alike 2.0 license.

And according to this Creative Commons license (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/), you should:


Attribution — You must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor (but not in any way that suggests that they endorse you or your use of the work).

[Yuppie Grinder]

Their description of Leon Trotsky on the Selected Marxist Writers page: First Menshevik, later Bolshevik Revolutionary. As commissar of war led the Red Army to defeat the Entente in their invasion of Soviet Russia. Helped create the Left Opposition to overthrow Stalin and stop the monstrous attrocities he'd soon commit. Created the theory of the Permanent Revolution, and the Fourth International. Assassinated by the Soviet government.

Sounds Trotskyist. That's just one bit, though.

[Robespierres Neck]

The original creators were/are Trotskyists if I remember correctly, but since that that it has attracted quite a few Marxists from all strands that write/publish/translate for the archive.

Yeah, I did read this somewhere.

[Q]

Their description of Leon Trotsky on the Selected Marxist Writers page: First Menshevik, later Bolshevik Revolutionary. As commissar of war led the Red Army to defeat the Entente in their invasion of Soviet Russia. Helped create the Left Opposition to overthrow Stalin and stop the monstrous attrocities he'd soon commit. Created the theory of the Permanent Revolution, and the Fourth International. Assassinated by the Soviet government.

Sounds Trotskyist. That's just one bit, though.

To be honest, the bolded sounds like what any non-Stalinoid would say, but yeah. Anyway, it doesn't mean they don't sport non-trot stuff. In fact, they boasted some time ago to have uploaded the complete Stalin archive.

[hashem]

Does the Marxist Internet Archive have a sect identity?

yes. absolutely.

they are trotskyists from a particular sect (IMT). their english section can at least pretend that its not sectarian (to some limits) but sectarianism is completely obvious in other sections. for example their farsi section which is controled by a backward Iranian trotskyist sect has removed introductions which Marx and Engels had written for different editions of manifesto and they have inserted an introduction which is written by the leader of Iranian trotskyists instead of them!

as a result, Iranian Marxists dont refer to MIA anymore.

[Book O'Dead]

The Marxist Internet Archive stores the works for nearly every writer that labeled himself a Marxist of one variety or another. I always thought that is didn't label itself as being M-L, or Trotskyist, or whatever.

However, when they accused the Chinese government of the 2007 attacks, they specifically rejected that Mao (not only the current Chinese government) was not a Marxist. That entails some identity to a specific sect.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/05/technology/05iht-marx.4474381.html?_r=1

Also, the home page has direct links to Marx/Engels, Lenin, Trotsky, Luxemburg, and Che. Why would they chose these figures? I mean, I am not complaining, given my own political orientation, but I was currious if MIA has a specific identidy aside from general Marxist.


And what could possibly be gained by assigning the MIA any sectarian bent?

I, for one, am grateful that such an archive exists and I can use it freely, independent of any corporate underwriting. Which is more than we can say for Revleft. Wouldn't you agree?

[Lenina Rosenweg]

The Marxist Internet Archive stores the works for nearly every writer that labeled himself a Marxist of one variety or another. I always thought that is didn't label itself as being M-L, or Trotskyist, or whatever.

However, when they accused the Chinese government of the 2007 attacks, they specifically rejected that Mao (not only the current Chinese government) was not a Marxist. That entails some identity to a specific sect.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/05/technology/05iht-marx.4474381.html?_r=1

Also, the home page has direct links to Marx/Engels, Lenin, Trotsky, Luxemburg, and Che. Why would they chose these figures? I mean, I am not complaining, given my own political orientation, but I was currious if MIA has a specific identidy aside from general Marxist.

The MIA does have a Maoism section

http://marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/index.htm

Maoist writers, including Deng Xiaoping, are included. The MIA is an open ended collective. Its not run by a specific group or sect. Most, but not all of the people who work on it are Trotskyists. There are people from other traditions, including Marxist-Leninist contributors.

It seems that much of the section on US Trotskyism is contributed or edited by the Sparts. It may be that the IMT is over represented, I don't know.

Whatever drawbacks the MIA may have the MIA is proving a valuable public service. In 2007 the MIA had a cyberwar with the PRC. As I understand the main issue the Chinese state had with the MIA was that it existed, providing a place for independent study of Marxism beyond PRC state indoctrination. The PRC asked the MIA to take down their Chinese language section. The MIA refused so China began an attack on the site to bring it down. I'm not sure how this was resolved but the MIA is now available in China, at least the English language section.

The Chinese gov't has started a rival, Dengist version of the Mia, encouraging the people to read the "Dengist classics"

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ Um, the anti-Trotskyist point made is that both Stalin and Mao are only "References," and others "Marxists." To be fair, why isn't Trotsky himself a "Reference"?


To be honest, the bolded sounds like what any non-Stalinoid would say, but yeah. Anyway, it doesn't mean they don't sport non-trot stuff. In fact, they boasted some time ago to have uploaded the complete Stalin archive.

Let's see how they'll treat official works by the CC CPSU, including Boris Ponomarev's updated History of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (merger formula or no merger formula).

[Book O'Dead]

^^^ Um, the anti-Trotskyist point made is that both Stalin and Mao are only "References," and others "Marxists." To be fair, why isn't Trotsky himself a "Reference"?



Let's see how they'll treat official works by the CC CPSU, including Boris Ponomarev's updated History of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (merger formula or no merger formula).

It's possible that the creators of MIA thought that Trotsky's contributions to socialist literature was more substantial and universal than either Stalin's or Mao's.

[Drosophila]

They're clearly anti-Stalin and anti-Mao, but that doesn't seem to prevent them from archiving both men's works.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

This interview, although 7 years old, gives some insight into the origins and structure of the MIA

http://www.isj.org.uk/index.php4?id=61

[Die Neue Zeit]

It's possible that the creators of MIA thought that Trotsky's contributions to socialist literature was more substantial and universal than either Stalin's or Mao's.

Than Mao? For sure.

I would suggest a more politically neutral organizing. It's moralist absurdity to have even Lassalle of all people in a direct "Archive" while Stalin is still a "Reference," when we all here know Stalin's Old Bolshevism-era works are way closer to Marxism than Lassalle's. Perhaps organize all Soviet writers in a Soviet archive subsection?

[Martin Blank]

As someone who was involved with the MIA in its early years, and knows its director personally, yes, it has had an anti-Stalinist opinion from the beginning. The MIA evolved from the MEIA (Marx-Engels Internet Archive), originally branching out to include Lenin, Trotsky and the Encyclopedia of Trotskyism Online. A lot of this was done as an alternative to the website, FromMarx2Mao. As time went on, the MIA began to open other archives for both writers and history. This eventually led to the formation, under pressure, of the "Reference Archive" -- the original place set up for Stalin, Mao and other "official Communist", "Anti-Revisionist" and pro-Stalin writers. These archives were later placed in a limbo between the main writers' archive and the "reference" area -- being both and neither at the same time.

As for the "sect identity" of those who work for the Archive, while many of those who do work for the MIA are Trotskyists, they are not all (or even mostly) from the same sect. Moreover, the MIA probably has more non-Trotskyists doing transcription and coding work these days, since the archives that would most interest the Trots are, for the most part, complete. I would venture to say that most of those making submissions for the MIA are probably more Luxemburgist and left communist than Trotskyist, since the archives for "Left" writers like Luxemburg, Mattick, Kollontai, Shlyapnikov, etc., are rather sparse.

[Book O'Dead]

Than Mao? For sure.

I would suggest a more politically neutral organizing. It's moralist absurdity to have even Lassalle of all people in a direct "Archive" while Stalin is still a "Reference," when we all here know Stalin's Old Bolshevism-era works are way closer to Marxism than Lassalle's. Perhaps organize all Soviet writers in a Soviet archive subsection?

You're not 'suggesting', you're insinuating. The insinuation being that the way in which the MIA website is organized reveals a political bias (or maybe even hides one, who knows?).

In all the years that I've used it the only bias I've detected at MIA has been a bias for Marx and all things Marxian. That's okay with me because I love Marx.

If there is a bias on my part between Trotsky and Mao's contribution it's because I see Trotsky's work as something fit to fill a library, whereas Mao's body of work would, in my mind, hardly fill one side of a book store, and that's including his "Little Red Book".

[Lenina Rosenweg]

It has to be admitted that Mao made many "innovations" (putting it charitably) to Marxism. Among thee are reliance on the peasantry rather than the working class, a unique theory of the dialectic with "secondary" and "tertiary" contradictions which many Marxist-Leninists were not to happy with, the "three world's theory" , "bloc of three classes"and his meeting with Nixon and support for Pinochet.

Mao was an important thinker and does have much to say. He should be engaged with (as opposed to engaged to) but people from other Marxist traditions could be forgiven for not giving him primacy.

Also-according to my understanding of Marxism there's not such thing as objectivity. Of course everyone has their own opinions, likes and dislikes. Subjectivity is a bourgeois fiction.So if the people who started the MIA favor one tthinker over another, as long as its honestly stated, what's wrong with it?

Its impossible to be "objective".

[shinjuku dori]

It has to be admitted that Mao made many "innovations" (putting it charitably) to Marxism.

Perhaps the word you are looking for is "deviations"