Victory of Anti Communist Propaganda

[Anderson]

We need to be realistic about the current situation.

The anti communist propaganda is victorious world over.:(

The communists influence a minority of the world population and are divided on the future course.

There is pessimism and lot of cadres stay only for short periods within the movement and then move on with their life.

HOW DO WE SUPPOSE TO CHANGE THIS TIDE?

[Mass Grave Aesthetics]

we play chess while biding our time.

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

We say Obama is communist, people see that communism isn't that bad (implying he doesn't fuck up too much), then we start revolution.
Genius.

[hatzel]

What makes you think it's the anti-communist propaganda giving rise to this situation, rather than the communist propaganda? Most left-wing propaganda and rhetoric I've come across has done little but put me off, so how exactly do you expect the average (that is 'non-socialist') individual to react?

[Book O'Dead]

We need to be realistic about the current situation.

The anti communist propaganda is victorious world over.:(

The communists influence a minority of the world population and are divided on the future course.

There is pessimism and lot of cadres stay only for short periods within the movement and then move on with their life.

HOW DO WE SUPPOSE TO CHANGE THIS TIDE?

I don't know which 'cadres' you're referring to but I think you're wrong.

Class antagonism between the proletariat and the capitalists is heating up worldwide. Here in the U.S. it is causing a resurgence of working class consciousness and a revival of left-wing, anti-capitalist sentiment.

So please, take your pessimism, put it in a sack and bury it in your back yard.

[Anderson]

I don't know which 'cadres' you're referring to but I think you're wrong.

Class antagonism between the proletariat and the capitalists is heating up worldwide. Here in the U.S. it is causing a resurgence of working class consciousness and a revival of left-wing, anti-capitalist sentiment.

So please, take your pessimism, put it in a sack and bury it in your back yard.

It is more of despair than working class consciousness. Most will want the current government to remedy the situation than a working class takeover.

[Blanquist]

Socialist propaganda doesn't matter a lick. Crisis is an objective fact of capitalism. It happens whether there is 'propaganda' or not.

Where does this nonsense come from? This absurd notion that if only the people knew about socialism, real socialism, then they would accept it and there would be no capitalism.

That is absolute nonsense that has no basis in historical fact.

Capitalism breeds crisis, crisis breeds a revolutionary situation, and it is up to a small, disciplined, revolutionary group armed with a programme of global socialist revolution, to take political power. The masses will swallow the socialist programme whole, if they see that the leadership is willing to provide it.

This fact was positively proven in the 1917 revolution, and proven in the reverse, by the absolute failure of all other revolutionary situations, because they were missing the main component of a successful revolution, that is, a party of the Lenin-type.

The masses will only accept such a party if it is willing to take on the responsibility of political power. This is a job for revolutionaries.

[Book O'Dead]

It is more of despair than working class consciousness. Most will want the current government to remedy the situation than a working class takeover.

Possibly. But if history can teach anything it is that revolutionary classes often start out expecting reforms and end up making revolution.

For example, when the women of Petersburg set out, with banners, icons and pictures of Nicholas to demand relief for the high price of bread they did not expect their little 'iskra' to ignite a revolution.

Take that 'iskra' and light your pipe with it.

[hatzel]

it is up to a small, disciplined, revolutionary group armed with a programme of global socialist revolution, to take political power. The masses will swallow the socialist programme whole, if they see that the leadership is willing to provide it.

Well fuck that booty-chowder.

[Anderson]

Socialist propaganda doesn't matter a lick. Crisis is an objective fact of capitalism. It happens whether there is 'propaganda' or not.

Where does this nonsense come from? This absurd notion that if only the people knew about socialism, real socialism, then they would accept it and there would be no capitalism.

That is absolute nonsense that has no basis in historical fact.

Capitalism breeds crisis, crisis breeds a revolutionary situation, and it is up to a small, disciplined, revolutionary group armed with a programme of global socialist revolution, to take political power. The masses will swallow the socialist programme whole, if they see that the leadership is willing to provide it.

This fact was positively proven in the 1917 revolution, and proven in the reverse, by the absolute failure of all other revolutionary situations, because they were missing the main component of a successful revolution, that is, a party of the Lenin-type.

The masses will only accept such a party if it is willing to take on the responsibility of political power. This is a job for revolutionaries.


There is capitalist crisis all around.
So we are lacking the leadership !!

[Blanquist]

There is capitalist crisis all around.
So we are lacking the leadership !!

Absolutely, as Trotsky famously put it "The present crisis in human culture is the crisis in the proletarian leadership."

Socialists should stop asking "where is the working class?" It exists, it lives, it struggles, it fights.

They should ask, "where is the revolutionary leadership?"

[Permanent Revolutionary]

The anti-left propaganda is not solely to blame for the curremt rep that the revolutionary left has.
All the schisms, splits and divisions have done nothing to further the cause, and should be equally blamed.

[honest john's firing squad]

it is up to a small, disciplined, revolutionary group armed with a programme of global socialist revolution, to take political power. The masses will swallow the socialist programme whole, if they see that the leadership is willing to provide it.
HAHAHAHA

And I thought your whole 'Blanquism' thing was just an unfunny joke.

[Threetune]

Imperialist concentration camp torture chambers for Black Panther revolutionaries and other poor workers are what really props up desperate collapsing anti-communist culture, not just their lying propaganda. ‘Lefts’ would do well to concentrate their ‘criticism’ on this rather than making up spurious diversionary arguments about matters most of them are quite ignorant about.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17564805 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17564805)

Edit:

“I thought that my cause, then and now, was noble. They might bend me a little bit, they may cause me a lot of pain, they may even take my life, but they will never be able to break me.”
—Albert Woodfox, Still Innocent and in Solitary after 39 Years
http://www.angola3.org/ (http://www.angola3.org/)

[Comrade Samuel]

Communism is on the rise once again, not yet in the form of red banners and wide spread talk of revolution but just take a look at the world today: the occupy movement shows that class antagonisms are alive and well and that the workers are becomeing less and less content with their conditions. When was the last time mayday riots across the world ever captured the attention of major American media? I've never seen it in my life up until this year. How do you think the governments of the world deal with thease things bubbleing up here and there? They certainly don't try to meet the demands of the workers, they prefer takeing us closer and closer to fascism using more violence and giving us less freedom.

Things are changing I just don't know how this all of this change will end.

[Anderson]

Communism is on the rise once again, not yet in the form of red banners and wide spread talk of revolution but just take a look at the world today: the occupy movement shows that class antagonisms are alive and well and that the workers are becomeing less and less content with their conditions. When was the last time mayday riots across the world ever captured the attention of major American media? I've never seen it in my life up until this year. How do you think the governments of the world deal with thease things bubbleing up here and there? They certainly don't try to meet the demands of the workers, they prefer takeing us closer and closer to fascism using more violence and giving us less freedom.

Things are changing I just don't know how this all of this change will end.

I suppose the changing times will come if we can organize and defeat the super-state apparatus of the imperialist powers - this would likely need an international movement

[robbo203]

Socialist propaganda doesn't matter a lick. Crisis is an objective fact of capitalism. It happens whether there is 'propaganda' or not.

Where does this nonsense come from? This absurd notion that if only the people knew about socialism, real socialism, then they would accept it and there would be no capitalism.

That is absolute nonsense that has no basis in historical fact.

Capitalism breeds crisis, crisis breeds a revolutionary situation, and it is up to a small, disciplined, revolutionary group armed with a programme of global socialist revolution, to take political power. The masses will swallow the socialist programme whole, if they see that the leadership is willing to provide it.

This fact was positively proven in the 1917 revolution, and proven in the reverse, by the absolute failure of all other revolutionary situations, because they were missing the main component of a successful revolution, that is, a party of the Lenin-type.

The masses will only accept such a party if it is willing to take on the responsibility of political power. This is a job for revolutionaries.


This is an utterly mechanistic way of looking at things and has nothing to do
with a Marxian approach to revolution:

The time of surprise attacks, of revolutions carried through by small conscious minorities at the head of unconscious masses, is past. Where it is a question of a complete transformation of the social organization, the masses themselves must also be in it, must themselves already have grasped what is at stake, what they are going in for [with body and soul]. The history of the last fifty years has taught us that. But in order that the masses may understand what is to be done, long, persistent work is required, and it is just this work which we are now pursuing, and with a success which drives the enemy to despair.(Frederick Engels 1895 Introduction to Karl Marx’sThe Class Struggles in France 1848 to 1850

Spreading ideas - propaganda, in its true sense - is an absolutely vital part of the work of revolutinaries. Anybody who denies that really has not begun to comprehend what a socialist revolution is about. Of course propaganda on its own is not going to bring about a revolution and nobody, i think, has ever suggested that it would. But nor are crises on their own likely to produce a revolution either. On the contrary the Great Depression of the 1930s brought to power the Nazi party and the belief that strong government was needed to tackle the crisis.

The Bolshevik revolution was a complete failure form the standpoint of advancing the socialist cause and its outcome was the imposition of dictatorship over the prolertariat, the harsh suppression of the workers and the rolling out of a programme state-administered capitalism. It is a not a model of revolution that any socialist would recommend and part of the reason for its failure was precisely the conspicuous lack of a majority of workers who understood what a genuine socialist soicety was about and sought to bring it about

[Yuppie Grinder]

More than anything it is the association with Stalin, Mao, Hoxha, Sung, and the like. People also think we know nothing about economics and follow intellectually bankrupt ideas about social science that aren't relevant to the real world. It's a specific sect that keeps on perpetuating these negative stereotypes.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

What makes you think it's the anti-communist propaganda giving rise to this situation, rather than the communist propaganda? Most left-wing propaganda and rhetoric I've come across has done little but put me off, so how exactly do you expect the average (that is 'non-socialist') individual to react?

I agree with this, a great deal of leftist propaganda and dialogue is incredibly dishonest. A refusal to admit past mistakes, and when finally pressed to the wall and forced to admit to a mistake the next phase is to do a lot of hand waving and attempts to justify the mistaken action through leaps of ideological faith.

There is nothing unique about this, just about all political movements do this, but you'll notice that they also lack mass movements.

[Anderson]

Actually in each country the communist movement has had major set backs and the prominent leftist groups are actually made up of revisionists or pseudo-leftists. These groups do not inspire confidence among the people and their politics is not much different than bourgeois politics. It's too much talking and no practical work or results.

It's uphill task for the revolutionaries to fight both capitalists as well as the pseudo leftists.

[Ismail]

More than anything it is the association with Stalin, Mao, Hoxha, Sung, and the like.Yeah, we need to educate people and have them differentiate between Marxist-Leninists like Stalin and Hoxha versus revisionists like Mao and the Kims. Right after we demonstrate that Stalin wasn't the embodiment of evil.

Although you say that to mean "COMMUNISM WOULD BE JUST FINE IF IT WEREN'T FOR SOME GUYS."

[Koba Junior]

Yeah, we need to educate people and have them differentiate between Marxist-Leninists like Stalin and Hoxha versus revisionists like Mao and the Kims.

It is necessary to consider the struggle against Western imperialism and the foremost imperialist power in the world: the United States of America. The task of raising awareness of historically determined ideological deviance, like that present in Maosim and Juche (or Kimilsungism), must not blind leftists to the efforts of various countries to combat the greater imperialist powers.

[MotherCossack]

I don't know which 'cadres' you're referring to but I think you're wrong.

Class antagonism between the proletariat and the capitalists is heating up worldwide. Here in the U.S. it is causing a resurgence of working class consciousness and a revival of left-wing, anti-capitalist sentiment.

So please, take your pessimism, put it in a sack and bury it in your back yard.

well... i must say....
i wish i could share in your optimistic, nay, euphoric outlook.
sadly.... buoy.. i sure as hell not singing from the same hymm sheet as y'all.
i am liking what y'all is saying.... yes i sure am...but.... hell ... i just dont see it!
not anywhere around here anyway.
and .. i mean jesus if the USA was really getting so hot and bothered and brewing for a class war....wouldn't Obama have had more support for his, not exactly radical, healthcare proposals....
cos from where i'm standing it looked like there was a lot of little folk, whining and snivelling:
" oh no... we dont want to pay for that lazy loser's medical bills...it was his choice to be poor..." and: "why should we pay for them... they gotta pay or do without"
i mean... it pretty much leaves me disgusted....maybe there is a whole emerging, caring, sensitive, socially responsible side to america that someone is trying to suppress... i dont know... tell me there is... by all means....
and tell me that all those cardboard cities that are shooting up alongside their big-cemented- brothers, tell me that they are a myth, created by .... who... scientologists.. just to be noticed...
while you're at it... explain how your foreign policy supports this optimistic view of USA's current direction...

and as for here.... we never did do radical left very well.... in fact the brits... we dont even like to vote its not our style... we just moan!!
and the endless, ever widening river of mind-numbingly inexplicable ignorance!!
very few marches, signs of any dissent, union activity is widely frowned upon, and all i hear are idiots refering to austerity measures and how we all have to pull together for the hard times ahead... with a smug 'i'm clever-i understand- economics ' expression, that means nothing which they are regurgitating... bloody pea-brains.!!!!

ah well at least france did alright i suppose.

[Yuppie Grinder]

Yeah, we need to educate people and have them differentiate between Marxist-Leninists like Stalin and Hoxha versus revisionists like Mao and the Kims. Right after we demonstrate that Stalin wasn't the embodiment of evil.

Although you say that to mean "COMMUNISM WOULD BE JUST FINE IF IT WEREN'T FOR SOME GUYS."

You were the one saying "COMMUNISM WOULD BE JUST FINE IF IT WEREN'T FOR SOME GUYS.", not me. Pot calling the kettle black, except the kettle is white, and the pot is a dolt.

[Ismail]

I don't think people make the connection of "communism = mass murder" and utilize Khrushchev, Gorbachev, Deng, Castro, or other revisionists as proof, but alright then.

I mean when Stalin was actually alive and the USSR was seemingly at the top of the world even ardent anti-communists tended to be intimidated by Soviet progress. The association of socialism with stagnant economies, social apathy, etc. as was present in the 1960's-80's USSR and Eastern Bloc is probably more of a factor than Stalin, who many bourgeois figures (outside of "he killed a lot of people" and "he was a tyrant") tend to... associate with economic progress and the war against Nazism.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

I think most people associate economic stagnation with the entire soviet period, I've never met anyone other than Marxists who were informed on subjects like soviet industrialization and most Americans are taught that the US defeated the Nazis with only a little bit of help from England and Russia. I also believe most people operate under the assumption that the purges lasted for it's entire life span as well.

I think you might be projecting.

[Ismail]

I think most people associate economic stagnation with the entire soviet period, I've never met anyone other than Marxists who were informed on subjects like soviet industrialization and most Americans are taught that the US defeated the Nazis with only a little bit of help from England and Russia. I also believe most people operate under the assumption that the purges lasted for it's entire life span as well.

I think you might be projecting.It really depends on the person. There are people who think the Great Purges lasted throughout the entire Soviet period, just like there are people who don't know if the sun revolves around the earth or not.

Generally people today see Stalin as either a "heroic tyrant" type (e.g. akin to Peter the Great and Ivan the Terrible) or just an evil bad commie dictator.

But for instance there were/are plenty of WWII veterans who held high views of Stalin and the USSR based on their experiences during the war and what they heard during that time. Obviously they don't care about him as a Marxist, just him as a statesman.

[ckaihatsu]

Socialist propaganda doesn't matter a lick. Crisis is an objective fact of capitalism. It happens whether there is 'propaganda' or not.

Where does this nonsense come from? This absurd notion that if only the people knew about socialism, real socialism, then they would accept it and there would be no capitalism.

That is absolute nonsense that has no basis in historical fact.

Capitalism breeds crisis, crisis breeds a revolutionary situation, and it is up to a small, disciplined, revolutionary group armed with a programme of global socialist revolution, to take political power. The masses will swallow the socialist programme whole, if they see that the leadership is willing to provide it.

This fact was positively proven in the 1917 revolution, and proven in the reverse, by the absolute failure of all other revolutionary situations, because they were missing the main component of a successful revolution, that is, a party of the Lenin-type.

The masses will only accept such a party if it is willing to take on the responsibility of political power. This is a job for revolutionaries.





There is capitalist crisis all around.
So we are lacking the leadership !!





Absolutely, as Trotsky famously put it "The present crisis in human culture is the crisis in the proletarian leadership."

Socialists should stop asking "where is the working class?" It exists, it lives, it struggles, it fights.

They should ask, "where is the revolutionary leadership?"


This is an objective-subjective dialectic -- yes, capitalism devolves into crisis as a result of its own inherent internal contradictions, but the class struggle can only be successful by the conscious subjective efforts of the masses.

The proletarian vanguard, as a section of the working class itself, is a subjective factor *within* the subjective factor of conscious struggle. As such there will necessarily be a degree of substitutionism since the vanguard will not wait for a *unanimous* vote for revolution from the proletariat.








So the question here is of *degree of substitutionism* -- if we waited for every single working-class person on earth to consent to revolution then we *would* be waiting around for centuries, but on the other hand we know that Blanquism is *too* substitutionist.


[6] Worldview Diagram

http://postimage.org/image/1budmnp50/

[W1N5T0N]

one word:

COLD FUCKING WAR

[Rooster]

Although you say that to mean "COMMUNISM WOULD BE JUST FINE IF IT WEREN'T FOR SOME GUYS."

"The USSR would be fine if it wasn't for some guys like Khrushchev."

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Greetings comrades, I have come organize you for the fight against capitalism. Before we begin will you all please settle in for a lecture regarding this memo Trotsky wrote to his plumber in 1923 that I think proves definitively that he was a fascist agent and furthermore,

[Ismail]

"The USSR would be fine if it wasn't for some guys like Khrushchev."What's your point? No one calls Khrushchev a "mass murderer." Hoxha noted that the rise of revisionism was connected with bureaucracy, with a lack of Marxist-Leninist education, etc. The fact is that many normal people see Stalin as a hero or heroic (if "tyrannical") personality in some form. The same can't be said for Khrushchev or most other revisionists.

The problem of anti-communist propaganda has its seeds in revisionism, especially since it was the revisionists who basically concurred with the anti-communists in their assessment of Stalin to begin with.

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

we play chess while biding our time.

Can we stroke our beards and smoke long pipes too?:tt1:

[Anderson]

This is transient. Not that we have accepted the defeat. Capitalist may have won round 1 but we gonna eventually knock them down. :)

[Krano]

This is transient. Not that we have accepted the defeat. Capitalist may have won round 1 but we gonna eventually knock them down. :)
We lost already? dam and i thought France just elected a Socialist president. And i also thought that Syriza is winning the polls in Greece.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Socialist propaganda doesn't matter a lick. Crisis is an objective fact of capitalism. It happens whether there is 'propaganda' or not.

Where does this nonsense come from? This absurd notion that if only the people knew about socialism, real socialism, then they would accept it and there would be no capitalism.

That is absolute nonsense that has no basis in historical fact.

Capitalism breeds crisis, crisis breeds a revolutionary situation, and it is up to a small, disciplined, revolutionary group armed with a programme of global socialist revolution, to take political power. The masses will swallow the socialist programme whole, if they see that the leadership is willing to provide it.

This fact was positively proven in the 1917 revolution, and proven in the reverse, by the absolute failure of all other revolutionary situations, because they were missing the main component of a successful revolution, that is, a party of the Lenin-type.

The masses will only accept such a party if it is willing to take on the responsibility of political power. This is a job for revolutionaries.

Blanquist, this is the first time your stupid name actually fits to the stupid shit you write. In fact, your post puts you in my no-troll zone, for now.

[SirBrendan]

Communism, socialism, and anarchism have all taken a reeming on the propoganda front: this is true. If ever a large portion of the populace believe that Obama is a socialist, and that communism is synonomous with Nazism, we can comfortably state the terms are being misused. For that matter, anarchism is usually associated with Thunderdome and rape-for-all rather than hippies on farms.

It is a serious issue when trying to progress an idea or agenda, if the idea or agenda already has established a thousand different prejudice and misconceptions hindering even the discussion. Anyone who has ever advocated a far-left ideaology will have already heard the off-the-cuff mindless drone responses which speak volumes of the effect of mass-culture

'It works great on paper but not in practice' is just one that i would wager every single person here has heard.

Regardless, any revolution requires starvation. I'm a history major and I can tell you with confident authority that there have been very, very few revolutions that didn't involve either resisting a foreign power or hungry bellies. Revolution doesn't come from the heart; it comes from the gut. The French revolution didn't happen out of a hatred for the aristocracy, as it had been ramming the French for centuries. It happened because the French were hungry and the aristocracy kept ramming.

Point is, capitalism is inclined to a boom-bust business cycle. Eventually the technological and innovative gains provided by capitalism will no longer be able to maintain the growth required to maintain the velocity of the dollar (See: Marx's 'Tendancy of the Rate of Profit to Fall'). As profit margins decline, exploitation will increase and living wages will no longer maintain themselves. This has been occurring since 1977 for N. America (I'm not familiar enough with European economic development to comment). Essentially what we're waiting for is the proverbial shit to hit the fan. If an economic collapse is large enough on a global level so as to be compared to The Great Depression, then with the modern level of education and awareness (we ain't in the 20's no mo) we could expect genuine revolutionary ideals to be considered by the general populace (A simple look over at Greece will reveal that their current crash has allowed both far-left socialists and fascists to make a resurgance).

If Greece begins reviving old dialogues when the crisis is still largely contained to their little part of the world, should it expand to the international theater we could expect communism/socialism to have a resurgance.

Anarchism and the conditions required for it to flourish are an entirely separate discussion.

[MarxSchmarx]

This is transient. Not that we have accepted the defeat. Capitalist may have won round 1 but we gonna eventually knock them down.
We lost already? dam and i thought France just elected a Socialist president. And i also thought that Syriza is winning the polls in Greece.

In France, the "Socialist" Party isn't really socialist, it's just what the rest of the world calls social-democratic party. Syriza is a little to the left of that, but they still support things like staying in the Euro and, last I checked, aren't threatening to expropriate the expropriators.

Anyway, those are largely protest votes against the status quo. People voting against whoever happens to be their leaders; that's how Zapatero and Brown and I forgot the German guys name lost - not because the public is any more right wing, but because they just want to throwout the incumbents.

[Ismail]

In France the "Socialist Party" is an anti-communist and bourgeois party.

E.g. in 1964, when Khrushchev and Co. were encouraging the trend towards parliamentary "unity" between Communist Parties and social-democratic ones:

"All the socialist demagogy of the social democrats has been shown up by experience. Socialists have more than once been in power, at the head of bourgeois governments both in England, France and elsewhere. They are at the head of or take part to this day In the governments of capitalist countries. And what have they done for the workers, for socialism? They have done nothing but follow Leon Blum's instructions: that being in power the socialists should be 'faithful directors of capitalist society'.

Let us dwell even briefly on the activity of the French Socialist Party and its leader Guy Mollet, who has more than once taken part in and even headed the French government, and whom the revisionists consider a left-wing element and conduct hearty talks with. When at the head of the government, the French socialists set the dogs loose on workers on strike, incited the outbreak of the dirty war in Indo-China, undertook police repressions against the people of other colonies, carried on the fighting against the Algerian people with more ferocity, approved the North Atlantic Pact and the re-arming of Western Germany. Guy Mollet's government signed the agreements for 'the European Common Market' and 'Euratom', it was one of the organizers of the military aggression on Egypt, Guy Mollet's betrayal paved the way for personal rule in France and so on and so forth. Speaking of Guy Mollet's activity even the labourite weekly 'Tribune' wrote at the beginning of 1957 that 'Mollet is a disgrace to France as well as to socialism'.

These are the true features of social-democracy today. Many representatives of the bourgeoisie have not been wrong in stressing the great role of the social-democratic parties in suppressing the revolutionary movement of workers and in defending the capitalist order, they have not been wrong in singing their praises. Thus, for instance, T. Junilla, director of a capitalist bank in Finland, has said: 'In the struggle to win over industrial workers spiritually only the social-democrats can serve as a powerful force against the communists. If the social democrats lose this battle, it may very well be the end of democracy in Finland. This is why, being a bourgeois member of the conservative party, I feel obliged to state that we need a united, militant, social-democratic party which firmly upholds northern democracy'. The English bourgeois newspaper Financial Times wrote in the same vein on June 28, 1963: '. . . the industrialists are scared less by the Labourites, and some of them cherish the opinion that a Labour government would open up better perspectives for development than the Tories'."
(Hoxha, Enver. The Party of Labor of Albania in Battle with Modern Revisionism. Tirana: Naim Frashëri Publishing House. 1972. pp. 296-298.)

[hatzel]

In France the "Socialist Party" is an anti-communist and bourgeois party.

E.g. in 1964

Not that the first bit isn't true, but backing up the assertion by appealing to 1964 is a bit...you know...

[Desperado]

Don't overplay the worth of their propaganda. The illusions and manufacturing of our consent are inherent in capitalist social relations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7G4WIa-HAk

[Ismail]

Not that the first bit isn't true, but backing up the assertion by appealing to 1964 is a bit...you know...Are you saying social-democracy has qualitatively changed since then? Besides becoming even more right-wing and indistinguishable from liberal, conservative, etc. parties? In his 1980 book Eurocommunism is Anti-Communism Hoxha spoke out against social-democracy there as well. As early as 1917 Lenin was calling on the genuine communists to junk the social-democratic label.

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

*sigh* I don't know man, time biding is my current course of action...when I get a free moment I'll come up with something better. It'll probably come down to the circumstances being right; communists and their ilk being boulstered by the future inevitable crisis faced by capitalism...though there's been a few of those (great depression, 2008 crisis) and not much has happened.
Yeah, back to time biding for now.

[Ismail]

Actually the Great Depression significantly increased the popularity of the CPUSA and American socialist movements in general. The issue is that the CPUSA and most of said socialist movements just tailed the Democrats under FDR and adopted increasingly right-wing and opportunist stands to justify this.

[DrZaiu5]

Well seeing how capitalism is collapsing around us I think that people will soon begin to disregard any anti-left propaganda and will start to look for alternatives. The obvious alternative is of course Communism and Socialism. Take a look at what's happening in Greece, the people are showing there anger to the government and SYRIZA are set to win the next election. The old enemy capitalism is weaker than ever before and there has never been a better time for the rise of Communism.

[znk666]

We say Obama is communist, people see that communism isn't that bad (implying he doesn't fuck up too much), then we start revolution.
Genius.
That would only do him harm,after all it is America.