The system is not important

[Elysian]

Well, it is, but this is what I mean: you are forced to sell your labor power for someone. But that someone is kind and caring. Even though the system sucks, you dont face problems.

Now imagine another scenario where there is common ownership, where you don't have to work for anyone etc. etc. but the people you work with are vile and wicked. The system is good, yet you suffer.

Point is, it's the behavior of people that matters. If you have good people around you, you could survive the worst system on earth.

[Tim Cornelis]

Take your best friend to North Korea then and stop bothering us.

[Mass Grave Aesthetics]

Well, it is, but this is what I mean: you are forced to sell your labor power for someone. But that someone is kind and caring. Even though the system sucks, you dont face problems.
That kind and caring employer will have to adapt to the capitalist system he operates within. Otherwise he will go bankrupt. Capitalism doesn´t change with the humanitarianism of individual bosses.

Now imagine another scenario where there is common ownership, where you don't have to work for anyone etc. etc. but the people you work with are vile and wicked. The system is good, yet you suffer.
Then you should get a new job;)


Point is, it's the behavior of people that matters. If you have good people around you, you could survive the worst system on earth.
That is far from always being the case.

[Garret]

You do know the quote about the worst slave-owners being those who were kind to their slaves? Yeah.

[Zukunftsmusik]

Okay, folks. Move along, there's nothing to see here.

[rylasasin]

Why is this troll not banned yet?

[#FF0000]

Except people won't be dicks if they're well fed and have no fear of losing everything

[GPDP]

What the fuck am I reading

[Elysian]

Except people won't be dicks if they're well fed and have no fear of losing everything

That's simplistic. Well fed, secure people become bullies and hurt those who are weak. economic reductionism is wrong. Human psychology is not that simple. Even if your material needs are met, the void within could force people to hurt other people. Think of gladiatorial matches - and the psychological significance.

[Railyon]

Competition, alienation, something something

[#FF0000]

That's simplistic. Well fed, secure people become bullies and hurt those who are weak. economic reductionism is wrong. Human psychology is not that simple. Even if your material needs are met, the void within could force people to hurt other people. Think of gladiatorial matches - and the psychological significance.

Yep it was p. simplistic but still just about totally correct. People aren't going to be jerks when they don't have reasons to be jerks. People aren't inherently bad or good -- they are products of their environment.

[MarxSchmarx]

Yep it was p. simplistic but still just about totally correct. People aren't going to be jerks when they don't have reasons to be jerks. People aren't inherently bad or good -- they are products of their environment.

I think the issue isn't whether people are inherently bad or good, but whether material well being provides the conditions for people being less obnoxious. It doesn't cease to inspire me how some of the most generous people on earth are also the people who never had anything - for example, poor people tend togive more to charity as a percentage of their income than rich people.

Or consider this - while poor countries tend to be where most modern atrocities take place, what's striking is that those involve an extreme minority - when you look at the entire population people tend to be more altruistic, polite, and trusting even of strangers in very poor countries than in rich countries. In my experience, I would be hard pressed to meet more generous, reasonable, friendly people than some of the poorest people in the poorest parts of the world. By contrast, most of the worst samples of humanity I've encountered have been among well-to-do people in developed countries. The rich in poor countries can be pretty awful too, to be sure.

I guess as my uncle, a sailor, once said, there's an asshole on every ship.

[eric922]

You'll still have assholes under any system. The difference is under capitalism a certain group of assholes can ruin your life, whereas under socialism the most an asshole can do is ruin you day.