i go on revleft to feel superior to other leftists

[Minima]

I have a beef with the general idea of tendencies, for me alot of the communists that we call "theorists" are products of the past and belong to the past. the improvisations of political leaders half a century ago on various economic, political issues don't really have all that much relevance in today's era of political reaction and really doesn't help us think about the future. anyway i don't even want to argue that... the reality is that it is laughable to be so attached to our particular identities as leftists when we look at how we actually live our day to day lives in the 21st century, and our relationship to the people around us.

I just don't get why everybody talks like they know shit when the majority of academic, political, intellectual discourses in the western world today are garbage, atheoretical, non marxist etc. and there isn't really a better alternative to them. Our world of pop politics, sports, video games, social discourse, doesn't really offer us anything outside of that generally bland category of alienated life. it certainly doesn't offer us engagement. and not just some kind of token engagement, engagement that creates great art, authentically new ideas, amazing experiences, advancements in our understanding of life and the world around us.... yet these popular discourses are what make up pretty much everyone's life outside of their leftist identity and their work/school w/e. just take a look at the rest of this chit chat forum it is the most inane crap on the internet. we are not even capable of entertaining ourselves and other leftist without all these bullshitty internet memes, quizzes, and forum games etc. is it really so hard to talk to each other like human beings.

It doesn't make sense how we go about posting in the other forums like theory and politics, I mean the majority of us live these unremarkable shitty lives in alienating institutions in sometimes horrible domestic situations. all this angst, why bring it to the internet and lash at people who are like 15, 16? or people that are older and have issues etc.

Shouldn't we have a culture of more open ended discussions where we can play out our own engagement rather then make talking points from some dead theorist? what unchallenged conventions are there in thinking today? I don't think we can have communist thought without engagement with so many of the ideas that have existed outside of marxist discourse, in philosophy, science, history, pedagogy, literature, our personal intuition etc.

For some of us it doesn't get any better then revleft (lol) in terms of being in a community of thinkers, marxists, leftists etc. why not use this chance to form some kind of real resource for learning, cultivate a culture of learning and pedagogy that extends beyond clever shut downs and trolling for rep points.

i dunno..

[Minima]

there are some ideas in there i'm just too tired to hash them out

[Blake's Baby]

I have a beef with the general idea of tendencies, for me alot of the communists that we call "theorists" are products of the past and belong to the past. the improvisations of political leaders half a century ago on various economic, political issues don't really have all that much relevance in today's era of political reaction and really doesn't help us think about the future. anyway i don't even want to argue that... the reality is that it is laughable to be so attached to our particular identities as leftists when we look at how we actually live our day to day lives in the 21st century, and our relationship to the people around us.

I just don't get why everybody talks like they know shit when the majority of academic, political, intellectual discourses in the western world today are garbage, atheoretical, non marxist etc. and there isn't really a better alternative to them...

I'd disagree that there isn't a better alternative. Those very discussions that you dismiss as being irrelevant (which we're not allowed to talk about, but I don't think are irrelevant) are part of the process of breaking with the very atheoretical garbage you're decrying. Seeing through the bankruptcy of capitalism and our whole dehumanising social system is inherently worth doing, even if it leads to nihilism, I think, because being a real human being means being honest at least to yourself about the life you lead and the world you inhabit. It may be more pleasant to be a happy pig than an unhappy philosopher but it isn't more fulfilling.




...
Our world of pop politics, sports, video games, social discourse, doesn't really offer us anything outside of that generally bland category of alienated life. it certainly doesn't offer us engagement. and not just some kind of token engagement, engagement that creates great art, authentically new ideas, amazing experiences, advancements in our understanding of life and the world around us.... yet these popular discourses are what make up pretty much everyone's life outside of their leftist identity and their work/school w/e. just take a look at the rest of this chit chat forum it is the most inane crap on the internet. we are not even capable of entertaining ourselves and other leftist without all these bullshitty internet memes, quizzes, and forum games etc. is it really so hard to talk to each other like human beings...

We're bombarded with information and images and messages telling us that we need to think in certain ways and that's part of the method of control; it's necessary for us to break that constant conditioning but also hardly surprising if we don't. 'The ruling ideas of any epoch are the ideas of the ruling class' after all. The internet isn't the best place for developing intense communication, that's still best done face to face, but if you look for instance at the 'How many comrades do you have?' thread there are people who post here who know no other communists, anarchists, revolutionaries or politically minded people at all in real life. It's difficult to build a way of behaving that revolves around emails and message boards that isn't somewhat alienated, I'd argue.


...

It doesn't make sense how we go about posting in the other forums like theory and politics, I mean the majority of us live these unremarkable shitty lives in alienating institutions in sometimes horrible domestic situations. all this angst, why bring it to the internet and lash at people who are like 15, 16? or people that are older and have issues etc...

I certainly agree with you about that. It's easy to say 'because those people are arseholes and need to know it' but that's a cop-out really. On the other hand, it's sometimes hard to go back to elements of one's own political development that are fundamental and then explain them to other people. It's 30 years or so since I rejected Stalinism as a political philosophy, for instance, and therefore it's difficult for me to even remember what possible use I might potentially have seen it being. Therefore, it's hard for me to comprehend Stalinists and much easier to say 'you're wrong and a counter-revolutionary and Stalin was a massive bastard' than to patiently explain to some 14-year-old Stalinist why it isn't 'badass' to glorify the Soviet Union.


...Shouldn't we have a culture of more open ended discussions where we can play out our own engagement rather then make talking points from some dead theorist? what unchallenged conventions are there in thinking today? I don't think we can have communist thought without engagement with so many of the ideas that have existed outside of marxist discourse, in philosophy, science, history, pedagogy, literature, our personal intuition etc...

Theses debates do happen. They just gt swamped by the LeninCat memes etc. But they're there. Not sure about the idea of being 'outside Marxist discourse' though, all science art philosophy etc is fair game as far as I'm concerned.



...For some of us it doesn't get any better then revleft (lol) in terms of being in a community of thinkers, marxists, leftists etc. why not use this chance to form some kind of real resource for learning, cultivate a culture of learning and pedagogy that extends beyond clever shut downs and trolling for rep points.

i dunno..

RevLeft is at best a compliment to a political life outside of the boards, it's not that life in and of itself. I really believe if you're not discussing these things will a real organisation (not necessarily a party, but some kind of network or contact-group at least) face to face then you're only getting a partial engagement with theory and discussion. That's not to say that there isn't a load of useless shit on the forums, or that it can never be better than it is; but I don't think RevLeft is a substitiute for real face-to-face meetings and discussions.

But it is possible to be serious and hopefully to discuss in a more than superficial manner.

[Deicide]

Join the roosterist group if you want a serious discussion with zero trolling (well.. there's 1% trolling ;))

[Drosophila]

Oh wow what an original thread that hasn't been done over and over again

[ColonelCossack]

At the risk of being accused of being a lifestylist... that isn't the right mindset.

[Manic Impressive]

Revleft is the tabloid newspaper of socialist web forums

[Minima]

I'm looking for a kind of rigor that exists in some academic disciplines, with a kind of sustained passion about learning and knowledge without all of the institutional bullshit of academia. I hate how in all of the discourses i've encountered in academia and life in general there are a few people that are singled out to be "talented" and then everyone else accepts this life of going through the motions with no engagement. I don't know how to describe the difference between a a great musician and some schmuck in the back of some orchestra in terms other then engagement, or the lack of.

I don't really know how to describe the difference between someone who dreams of a future better then the present, with whom that fire fuels a vitality that opens up avenues to so many possibilities in life, and an idiot like five_dollars, other then through engagement, and the lack of.

sure there are material barriers and life is harder in a way for us communists but don't you want to live a little?

[Manic Impressive]

I wouldn't have the first clue about the rigour that exists in academic departments. I went to a university once for a meeting, I was surprised at first that I was allowed through the door. I felt like a rabbit caught in the headlights, the whole atmosphere, the culture, was completely alien to me.
Revleft has a shit load of things wrong with it and can be extremely frustrating debating people who don't even read what you are writing and do the equivalent of sticking their fingers in their ears while shouting "LALALALALALA Can't hear you, TROTSKY TROTSKY TROTSKY STALIN STALIN STALIN". But you will occasionally get caught out, find someone with a different view on something that you hadn't realized before. Through these rare moments revleft has definitely had an impact and helped improve my politics over the two years I've been here and I've seen it have the same impact on others. People starting out knowing very little and in a years time they've become good posters. I use this forum for a that reason and a couple of others, I enjoy helping people who are just starting out and I enjoy testing my debating skills with people from opposing ideologies, it can also offer up some funny moments and can be a good source for news. If you're looking for a forum with a higher level of theoretical debate I'd suggest Libcom or ******* forums. Although the ideological hegemony of the Italian Leftcoms put me off the latter and Libcom can at times be even more juvenile than Revleft. Personally if I want to go over something more in depth then I e-mail people in my party or use our own forums or bring it up at a meeting or something.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

I go on revleft to feel superior to other leftists too but it never happens.

[Rooster]

I read anti-revisionist/stalinist/marxist-leninist/utopianist/etc economics for the lulz. And then listen to Ismail say how they are not lulz. Which creates more lulz. I can't remember that one he brought up that talks about the great comrade Stalin, but look it up.


Join the roosterist group if you want a serious discussion with zero trolling (well.. there's 1% trolling ;))

It's not trolling. It's called propaganding.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

I came lookin for booty.