Why can't North Korea feed it's people?

[Blanquist]

North Korea has a population around 25 million, they have a fairly large territory. They have some agriculture, I think they grow a lot of apples, etc. They get lots of aid from China.

Why have they needed America, their main sworn enemy, to provide them with food and other aid for over 15 years? Isn't it highly embarrassing? Don't the leaders lose face? How can they beg for food?

I don't think North Korea wants their people to starve on purpose, so why are they unable to provide food?

The 'blockade' alone can not explain it, they do lots of trade with China, they do trade with Russia, they get aid from many countries, and they have their own resources.

Economically speaking, why is this happening?

[Zav]

North Korea has a population around 20+ million, they have a fairly large territory. They have some agriculture, I think they grow a lot of apples, etc. They get lots of aid from China.

Why have they needed America, their main sworn enemy, to provide them with food and other aid for over 15 years? Isn't it highly embarrassing? Don't the leaders lose face? How can they beg for food?

I don't think North Korea wants their people to starve on purpose, so why are they unable to provide food?

The 'blockade' alone can not explain it, they do lots of trade with China, they do trade with Russia, they get aid from many countries, and they have their own resources.

Economically speaking, why is this happening?
Most of North Korea isn't arable. They could probably produce all of their food if they wanted to, but they spend a lot of money on defense. China is becoming more and more Capitalist by the day, and eventually they will stop sending aid. When that happens, North Korea will have no friends in the world. They will become a true pariah state. They are small and relatively weak. Without allies there is a huge risk of invasion. Furthermore it's a State Capitalist government. It's almost inherently inefficient due to the existence of the decadent Party, but don't tell the baby Stalins and Maos that.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Much of North Korea is mountainous and rough to cultivate so such makes farming very difficult. Ontop of the blockades,sanctions and general lack of resources feeding people has become very hard.

[Grenzer]

Why have they needed America, their main sworn enemy, to provide them with food and other aid for over 15 years? Isn't it highly embarrassing? Don't the leaders lose face? How can they beg for food?


How is it embarrassing? The regime controls the media entirely, so it's not like there's a PR disaster waiting to happen. If anything, they have been able to gloat about the fact that they can go around firing rockets, assassinating First Ladies, blowing up submarines, and shit; and have their enemy give them food in return and be thankful for it.

The Kim dynasty is cunning, if nothing else. The West usually sees them as insane, but it seems like they're more intelligent than anything else. They have pretty much been able to do whatever the fuck they've wanted all the while demanding concessions without giving any ground. Not even America can do that.

[Alfonso Cano]

North Korea has a population around 25 million, they have a fairly large territory.

No, they don't. They have a territory that is just a little over 120 000 km2. That means that they have over 200 people to feed with just 1 km2 of land available. And the majority of their land is composed of mountains (which you could check if you look at their geo. map), which are really not favourable for intensive agriculture. As opposed to S. Korea, which is mainly situated in the fertile plains and which was the breadbasket before the partition.


I don't think North Korea wants their people to starve on purpose, so why are they unable to provide food?

As noted by Bruce Cummings, one of the foremost experts on North Korea, country was self-sufficient in food by the 80's. Unfortunately, their economy was extremely dependent on cheap, subventoned oil given to them at extremely low prices by the Soviet Union. Once the SU dissappeared, supply was cutt of and NK had to import it at world market prices which were dozens of times larger than Soviet ones. Since they had no foreign currency to pay for it, their agriculture and transport (which were highly dependent on oil) collapsed, tractors were unusable, fertilisers couldn't be made due to lack of chemicals; and the country suffered a series of devastating famines in the middle 90's, resulting in the great loss of life (though, it is unknown how many). That would be the basic and most simplified explanation for their problems. If you wantmore information, feel free to ask.

[A Marxist Historian]

No, they don't. They have a territory that is just a little over 120 000 km2. That means that they have over 200 people to feed with just 1 km2 of land available. And the majority of their land is composed of mountains (which you could check if you look at their geo. map), which are really not favourable for intensive agriculture. As opposed to S. Korea, which is mainly situated in the fertile plains and which was the breadbasket before the partition.



As noted by Bruce Cummings, one of the foremost experts on North Korea, country was self-sufficient in food by the 80's. Unfortunately, their economy was extremely dependent on cheap, subventoned oil given to them at extremely low prices by the Soviet Union. Once the SU dissappeared, supply was cutt of and NK had to import it at world market prices which were dozens of times larger than Soviet ones. Since they had no foreign currency to pay for it, their agriculture and transport (which were highly dependent on oil) collapsed, tractors were unusable, fertilisers couldn't be made due to lack of chemicals; and the country suffered a series of devastating famines in the middle 90's, resulting in the great loss of life (though, it is unknown how many). That would be the basic and most simplified explanation for their problems. If you wantmore information, feel free to ask.

Be it noed, that the original reason for NK wanting to go nuclear was to make up for the oil deficit with nuclear power. The almost crazed reaction of the Clinton administration and its equally psychopathic successor to this highly logical plan is what pushed NK to go for nuclear weapons.

-M.H.-

[Ismail]

As noted it's much less a reason of military armaments than of unwelcoming agricultural conditions. After all, the USA spends a gigantic amount of its budget on arms (certainly more than the DPRK can ever afford), but that doesn't result in occasional famine-like conditions.


Furthermore it's a State Capitalist government. It's almost inherently inefficient due to the existence of the decadent Party, but don't tell the baby Stalins and Maos that.Yes, it is occasionally threatened by famine because the Workers' Party of Korea is "decadent." Very nice. Unless you believe that the Kims can move mountains, I'm pretty sure this is not really a capitalism versus socialism issue, just a "this is really not good terrain for growing much" issue.

[Krano]

Most of North Korea isn't arable. They could probably produce all of their food if they wanted to, but they spend a lot of money on defense. China is becoming more and more Capitalist by the day, and eventually they will stop sending aid. When that happens, North Korea will have no friends in the world. They will become a true pariah state. They are small and relatively weak. Without allies there is a huge risk of invasion. Furthermore it's a State Capitalist government. It's almost inherently inefficient due to the existence of the decadent Party, but don't tell the baby Stalins and Maos that.
Trying to start a tendency war? I don't care how much they wave the red flag and banner of Lenin it still doesn't change the fact that there far from Socialism.

[jookyle]

Isn't it more that they don't feed their people, rather than they can't? Not to say that they have an over abundance of food but, there's been reports who have seen records showing tons of resources going to the party officials and military higher-ups, with a smaller portion going to the military personal themselves. And as they have limited resources at it is, this makes up for a majority of what is there.

[Zav]

Trying to start a tendency war? I don't care how much they wave the red flag and banner of Lenin it still doesn't change the fact that there far from Socialism.
Maybe just a little. Socialism isn't a journey to Mount Doom, but rather simply worker-control of the m.o.p. The Kims could easily declare one day that the x-industry workers may now decide what they shall make and how they will go about it.



Yes, it is occasionally threatened by famine because the Workers' Party of Korea is "decadent." Very nice. Unless you believe that the Kims can move mountains, I'm pretty sure this is not really a capitalism versus socialism issue, just a "this is really not good terrain for growing much" issue.
I did say that they have almost no farmland. In my opinion building great statues and wasting time making the country look pretty are shameful acts when the people have no bread. Basic needs should be met before anything else. The Kims could work on terracing and importing soil from China, but they'd rather launch a satellite.

[Yuppie Grinder]

Because state-capitalism, especially when largely isolated from the global market, is very inefficient at distributing resources.

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

State-Capitalism has fuck all to do with this.
They don't have much support and their land is hard to grow things of because it is mountainy.
That's all folks.

[Brosip Tito]

The people are starving, as an indirect result of their batshit government. It is a direct result of the sanctions imposed on the nation, which are supposed to either change the minds of, or punish, the government.

Well, it's not working, it's punishing the people, and bourgeois media presents it as ONLY the fault of the regime, when in fact it is a double edged sword. The North Korean bourgeosie, the bureaucrats, are living a decadent and well fed, comfortable life.

The absurdity of the North Korean regime, it's supporters abroad, and the sanctions themselves is immense.

[Mass Grave Aesthetics]

State-Capitalism has fuck all to do with this.
They don't have much support and their land is hard to grow things of because it is mountainy.
That's all folks.
Surely relative economic isolation (since the collapse of the USSR) has everything to do with it.

[OnlyCommunistYouKnow]

Someone's been watching too much FOX news.

[SHORAS]

Where does the Dear Leader or whatever he is called now live? I take it there is no presidential type palace or is there?

[bricolage]

about 80% of the country is mountainous so it's hardly got much to work with, here's a map,
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Korean_Peninsula_topographic_map.png
when you have no real trading partners and are trying to base your country around self-sufficiency it's pretty hard when you have nothing to grow. south korea has only about 5% more arable land but is fully integrated into global financial systems and such so can balance it out. north korea has been generally isolated by global powers and has tried a move towards autarky, but this is never going to really work when you have nothing to build it on. it's a lose lose situation.

[Permanent Revolutionary]

I think some people are trying to simplify the issue here.

The fact that North Korea is a mostly mountainous region can not explain the whole problem.
The fact is that they are spending way too much money the upper echelon of the party, I mean it is common knowledge that the Kim's have lived in obese plentitude while the people starve.
They are also spending way too much money on the military.

If they were to re-allocate their resources they could for example be the first country in the world to really implement the vertical farm.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_farm

[Blanquist]

I think some people are trying to simplify the issue here.

The fact that North Korea is a mostly mountainous region can not explain the whole problem.
The fact is that they are spending way too much money the upper echelon of the party, I mean it is common knowledge that the Kim's have lived in obese plentitude while the people starve.
They are also spending way too much money on the military.

If they were to re-allocate their resources they could for example be the first country in the world to really implement the vertical farm.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_farm

Thanks for this, never heard of vertical farming before.

[seventeethdecember2016]

Most of North Korea isn't arable. They could probably produce all of their food if they wanted to, but they spend a lot of money on defense. China is becoming more and more Capitalist by the day, and eventually they will stop sending aid. When that happens, North Korea will have no friends in the world. They will become a true pariah state.
Russia is a relatively Capitalist state, yet they make up roughly 30% of North Korea's trade. Besides, why would China purposely dump and ally? Such a claim is absurd!

[Koba Junior]

https://espressostalinist.wordpress.com/2011/11/25/why-is-it-that-people-in-north-korea-are-starving-but-at-the-same-time-magnificent-buildings-are-being-built-against-the-lies-about-famine-in-the-dprk/

[BE_]

North Korea can't feed its people because that is not their goal. Like someone brought up before, the government cares more about their bullshit nationalist military than feeding their people. It's as simple as that.

[Rusty Shackleford]

x-industry workers may now decide what they shall make and how they will go about it.

bolded part is childish. worker control of mop doesnt mean that workers in a factory can decide to make tennis shoes instead of ceramic products. labor is social, not self-contained in various industries. what about workers at the textile mills and the quarries? dont they have any say?

[Prinskaj]

If they were to re-allocate their resources they could for example be the first country in the world to really implement the vertical farm.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_farm
Are you seriously proposing that North Korea, a poor isolated third world country, should start to produce food in a fashion which is too expensive, because of immense building cost and the huge amount of electricity required, for the industrialized world to engage in?

[Ismail]

The fact is that they are spending way too much money the upper echelon of the party, I mean it is common knowledge that the Kim's have lived in obese plentitude while the people starve.They'd need to be spending gigantic amounts on themselves for the idea that their expenditures are big enough to contribute to famine or near-famine conditions in agriculture to have any merit. I rather doubt the amount of money the government pays itself is akin to, say, the former Ethiopian monarchy and so on which actually spent money lavishly.

Kim Jong Il was known for drinking cognac, not having a throne of gold and exquisite collection of tigers or whatever as Haile Selassie did with typical monarchical excess (and which got him deposed when photos of him feeding his tigers during famine circulated amongst the military.)

Again, if one is concerned about the DPRK's military expenditure, it ought to take the view of actual South Korean communists: US troops out of Korea, struggle against South Korean militarism which gives the DPRK all the excuses it needs to maintain a large military bureaucracy. At the present both the DPRK and South Korea are in a state of war. In the South many have called for peace talks, which the government refuses to do.

[rolfwar]

As already pointed out,it is true that the DPRK's territory is not suitable for large-scale agricolture.
But that is not the only reason,they spend a lot of money in absurd tests for stelites,huge cerimonies to honour the Kim family and so on.
The true objective of the Party in Nord Korea is to keep living as a parasite on the shoulders of the korean people.
It is hardly questionable that the Kim family lives a very confortable life,and they seldom have problems with food,if not at all.
Their true objective is to keep the whole society on near-famine conditions,to unite the people against the "evil enemy" that is causing them this sorrow,and keep ruling the society,and to fatten over it.
They don't want to unite North and South Korea,the only thing they need is somebody to blame.That's why their "Ministery of Truth" (i am not joking,it's its name) claims that the americans started the war in the 50s and so on.
I quote George Orwell:
"In accordance to the principles of Doublethink, it does not matter if the war is not real, or when it is, that victory is not possible. The war is not meant to be won. It is meant to be continuous. The essential act of modern warfare is the destruction of the produce of human labor. A hierarchical society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance. In principle, the war effort is always planned to keep society on the brink of starvation. The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects. And its object is not victory over Eurasia or Eastasia, but to keep the very structure of society intact."[1984]

[stern l.]

North Korea use food as kind of hierarchic domination, pretty much like holodomor.
Higher you are in the hierarchy, more food you receive.
Prisoners and traitors, almost none.