I'm considering a job that goes against my Marxist views; help?

[Questionable]

I'm probably going to be forever blacklisted on this forum as a counterrevolutionary agent of the bourgeoisie, but I need advice, and most of my real life friends aren't as into Marxism as me so they don't quite get the issue.

I'm heavily into sociology. Looking for jobs, I discovered that crime analysis is a growing field with lots of employment opportunities, and requires skills which I am adept at (Computer tech, information-gathering, social analysis, etc). However, the obvious issue with this is that I would be apart of the police, the tool for the bourgeoisie.

I obviously don't want to suppress any political opinions. If I went into the crime analysis field, it would be so I could stop senseless crimes such as rape, murder, worker-on-worker theft, etc. But I also know what the police are, and there will most likely be times when I'd have to do something unsavory, such as halting an Occupy protest or something of the sort. That would make me feel extremely guilty.

However, my justification for considering this is that:
-Crime analysis would be a desk job, pretty much. It's not like I'm going to be out there cracking the skulls of protesters. I could try to bring a social-conflict perspective and explain why people are protesting in the first place. I could also try to prevent police brutality. I know it's impossible to totally reform the police, because at the end of the day they're there to insure capitalist society is protected, but I could make the system a little softer on the oppressed for the time being.
-As mentioned above, I have no problem with assisting in crime prevention when it's senseless and non-progressive. I don't think any communist would say that rape is okay, for instance. Even if I was part of the police, I could still be doing some good by protecting people from wanton acts of violence.
-A job is a job, and no matter what I do, I'm going to be a part of capitalism in some way. It may as well be doing a job that I'm skilled at and enjoy. Wasn't Engels an industrialist? If I did crime analysis, I would at least be in a position to introduce a Marxist perspective to police work. I know there's already a sub-section of criminology called Marxist criminology.

I've been struggling with this decision, so does anyone have any advice? And please restrict my account for ever considering police-related work.

[Blanquist]

Marxism isn't a lifestyle. Do what you need to survive.

Also I wouldn't take 'Marxist criminology' too seriously. There seems to be a 'Marxist' everything these days, "Marxist film theory" "Marxist sports car driving theory" etc. It's all nonsense.

[ArseCynic]

Marxism isn't a lifestyle. Do what you need to survive.

It can be. But I agree, do what you must, but don't Crush protests or anything like that when it is your turn to do so. It really depends which is more important to you, keeping your job at that point or staying consistent to your ideals.

[gorillafuck]

-Crime analysis would be a desk job, pretty much. It's not like I'm going to be out there cracking the skulls of protesters. I could try to bring a social-conflict perspective and explain why people are protesting in the first place.you're thinking way too much like an optimistic leftist if you think that you'll be able to do that and have it make a difference.

[Questionable]

you're thinking way too much like an optimistic leftist if you think that you'll be able to do that and have it make a difference.

I know it's a very far stretch, but even if I wasn't able to turn my local police department into a communist utopia, my point about preventing pointless crimes still stands (Unless someone knocks it down. I'm still open to opinions here).

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

I'm probably going to be forever blacklisted on this forum as a counterrevolutionary agent of the bourgeoisie, but I need advice, and most of my real life friends aren't as into Marxism as me so they don't quite get the issue.

I'm heavily into sociology. Looking for jobs, I discovered that crime analysis is a growing field with lots of employment opportunities, and requires skills which I am adept at (Computer tech, information-gathering, social analysis, etc). However, the obvious issue with this is that I would be apart of the police, the tool for the bourgeoisie.

I obviously don't want to suppress any political opinions. If I went into the crime analysis field, it would be so I could stop senseless crimes such as rape, murder, worker-on-worker theft, etc. But I also know what the police are, and there will most likely be times when I'd have to do something unsavory, such as halting an Occupy protest or something of the sort. That would make me feel extremely guilty.

However, my justification for considering this is that:
-Crime analysis would be a desk job, pretty much. It's not like I'm going to be out there cracking the skulls of protesters. I could try to bring a social-conflict perspective and explain why people are protesting in the first place. I could also try to prevent police brutality. I know it's impossible to totally reform the police, because at the end of the day they're there to insure capitalist society is protected, but I could make the system a little softer on the oppressed for the time being.
-As mentioned above, I have no problem with assisting in crime prevention when it's senseless and non-progressive. I don't think any communist would say that rape is okay, for instance. Even if I was part of the police, I could still be doing some good by protecting people from wanton acts of violence.
-A job is a job, and no matter what I do, I'm going to be a part of capitalism in some way. It may as well be doing a job that I'm skilled at and enjoy. Wasn't Engels an industrialist? If I did crime analysis, I would at least be in a position to introduce a Marxist perspective to police work. I know there's already a sub-section of criminology called Marxist criminology.

I've been struggling with this decision, so does anyone have any advice? And please restrict my account for ever considering police-related work.

Do it, man. Honestly, it sounds cool. Plus, Marxism is not a lifestyle. Engels himself was a dirty capitalist. (http://www.salfordstar.com/article.asp?id=456)


Born in Barmen, Germany, in 1820, young Fred was a major trouble maker after he discovered politics, so his dad – a rich mill owner – packed him off to Salford when he was 22 to work for the family's joint owned Ermen and Engels' Victoria Mill in Weaste, which made sewing threads.

More proof. (http://www.mcrh.mmu.ac.uk/pubs/pdf/mrhr_02i_whitfield.pdf) :) Yet, he is a communist hero.

[Drosophila]

Don't think of your job as a political statement. It's not like if you don't take that job capitalism would be hurt in any way.

[Ostrinski]

Again, and once again: You can be an asshole and still be a Marxist.

[bcbm]

its always good to have people on the inside...

[Manic Impressive]

The job doesn't prevent crime it just attempts to manage it more efficiently.

[Luc]

If it's a purly desk job than seems ok. Although they may be suspiscious of your radical views and will be able to get tons of personal information on you if they employ you. They may also use you to suppress subversive tendencies around you :sneaky: and face it, you won't be helping anyone. Police don't stop crime they just clean up the left overs and commit it themselves. If you take this job the best thing you can do is do nothing.

just some thoughts.

edit: also depends on the police you will be workin for, where you at? If your willing to disclose a general location of course :lol:(like your province)

[Questionable]

The job doesn't prevent crime it just attempts to manage it more efficiently.

I'm not sure I understand this statement. Is this a reference to how crime is an inevitable result of capitalist inequality? I'm well aware that the police aren't going to change the status quo anytime soon, but when I say "crime prevention," I mean something along the lines of protecting people from random crimes.

[Manic Impressive]

and how do you think you'll be doing that? and how many crimes are completely random?

[Questionable]

and how do you think you'll be doing that? and how many crimes are completely random?

I don't see the need in hostility. I'm asking honest questions, and I'm open to any advice on this. I mean what I said in the original post; I don't want to suppress any political beliefs, but as for rape or murder or other crimes that do absolutely nothing to further the proletariat, even go as far as hurting them, yes, I would like to "prevent" them.

[MarxSchmarx]

Have you actually been offerred a regular position? If so is it working for the state or for, e.g., a private detective agency? If it's working for the state, well, I have a hard time believing you couldn't find another position. Government jobs particularly those that are medium skilled (i.e., aren't strictly physical labor but also aren't PhD level) where I live and where I"ve experienced are extremely hard to come by and generally only go to people who are really invested in them or know people who know people that are already in there (i.e., cronyism). An exception might be people with an extremely specific skill, e.g., with hard coding GIS technology on distributed computers or something like that.

If you're not working with a concrete offer, i don't think your situation is all that unique. Many of us have skills that will be incredible useful to the bourgeosie in the abstract that some of us utilize one way or another to make a living. Unless your talking skills that require a concrete certification or perhaps a degree in a technical area or a specific language, often they are only the first step to getting you an interview but aren't terribly useful otherwise. I don't know much about the sociology job market, but being a cop requires a lot more than having the college know-how and my understanding is their recruitment process is pretty ruthless in weeding people out. Honestly, unless you have a job offer for a well-paying, regular position, I woudl defer your dilemma until you actually have an offer you can work with.

[ArrowLance]

However, my justification for considering this is that:
-Crime analysis would be a desk job, pretty much. It's not like I'm going to be out there cracking the skulls of protesters. I could try to bring a social-conflict perspective and explain why people are protesting in the first place.

You are still a part of the apparatus. You are aiding the police.


I could also try to prevent police brutality. I know it's impossible to totally reform the police, because at the end of the day they're there to insure capitalist society is protected, but I could make the system a little softer on the oppressed for the time being.

I don't think you could. When you try to reform a system from within, it usually just ends up reforming you.



-As mentioned above, I have no problem with assisting in crime prevention when it's senseless and non-progressive. I don't think any communist would say that rape is okay, for instance. Even if I was part of the police, I could still be doing some good by protecting people from wanton acts of violence.

As a communist I wouldn't say that rape is good but I would also not report any crime to the police, aid any police investigation, or otherwise assault criminals. In this case it is important to protect everyone from the police.



-A job is a job, and no matter what I do, I'm going to be a part of capitalism in some way. It may as well be doing a job that I'm skilled at and enjoy. Wasn't Engels an industrialist? If I did crime analysis, I would at least be in a position to introduce a Marxist perspective to police work. I know there's already a sub-section of criminology called Marxist criminology.


It's true that you can't really escape from participating in some way but directly helping the police oppress the citizenry is not the same as feeding the citizenry.


Marxism isn't a lifestyle. Do what you need to survive.

Marxism isn't a lifestyle but it should affect your lifestyle.

[Questionable]

@ArrowLance: I see where you're coming from. I don't quite agree on the part about reporting people to the police, though. If a loved one was assaulted or raped with no good reason, I think I would have to cave in and help the police if I could. Regardless of that, I'm leaning towards looking for another career field after reading the responses.

[RedHal]

Marxism isn't a lifestyle, but what does it mean for you to be a Marxist? Is it just reading some of Marx' writings or engaging in political work/action?

Engels excuse doesn't cut it here, Engels was his own boss, but if the person takes this job, he'll be answering to someone.

Any sane comrade would have nothing to do with someone associated with law enforcement!

[ArrowLance]

@ArrowLance: I see where you're coming from. I don't quite agree on the part about reporting people to the police, though. If a loved one was assaulted or raped with no good reason, I think I would have to cave in and help the police if I could. Regardless of that, I'm leaning towards looking for another career field after reading the responses.

An emotional response is natural, and it's not a crime to fall into it. It would even be understandable for someone who calls themselves a Marxist to work for the police. But it shouldn't happen, and we should try very hard not to let it happen. We must not forget that we are Communists and behave as if we were ordinary non-Communists.

[El Oso Rojo]

Marxism won't put food on the table for the time being.

[Manic Impressive]

I don't see the need in hostility. I'm asking honest questions, and I'm open to any advice on this. I mean what I said in the original post; I don't want to suppress any political beliefs, but as for rape or murder or other crimes that do absolutely nothing to further the proletariat, even go as far as hurting them, yes, I would like to "prevent" them.
I'm not being hostile. Believe me you'd know if I was. Essentially you should and will do what you feel is best. Speaking personally I could never do a job like that, but that doesn't mean I haven't been tempted to take jobs which are anti-working class because I'm desperate, but I can never actually bring myself to do it. My line of questioning was to try to find out whether you are being naive about the impact this job will actually have. Most crimes are committed because of capitalism and you will be helping to lock up those who are essentially victims of capitalism. You'll also be complicit in consigning them to the virtual enslavement of the (US?) prison system.

[Questionable]

Marxism isn't a lifestyle, but what does it mean for you to be a Marxist? Is it just reading some of Marx' writings or engaging in political work/action?

Engels excuse doesn't cut it here, Engels was his own boss, but if the person takes this job, he'll be answering to someone.

Any sane comrade would have nothing to do with someone associated with law enforcement!

Although you were probably angry at me while writing this, I agree with you now. If I accepted this job under the pretext that I was helping to stop brutal crimes only, I'd be deceiving myself. Even if I accomplished some good things while working for the police, I would still understand what I actually stood for, and I don't think I could live with myself if that was the case.

So yeah, no crime analysis for me.

[Anarcho-Brocialist]

If I was going to work for law enforcement, I'd work for the SEC, and FBI white-collar crimes division and lock up real criminals. But I understand you need to make a living, and since the economy isn't vibrant, what can you do? I support your decision because I know where your heart is, comrade!

[Questionable]

I'm not being hostile. Believe me you'd know if I was. Essentially you should and will do what you feel is best. Speaking personally I could never do a job like that, but that doesn't mean I haven't been tempted to take jobs which are anti-working class because I'm desperate, but I can never actually bring myself to do it. My line of questioning was to try to find out whether you are being naive about the impact this job will actually have. Most crimes are committed because of capitalism and you will be helping to lock up those who are essentially victims of capitalism. You'll also be complicit in consigning them to the virtual enslavement of the (US?) prison system.

Pardon me, then. The way you said "and how do you propose to do that?" seemed like you were talking down to me. That being said, I've realized that your viewpoint does indeed make the most sense. Even if I somehow stopped a murder while employed for the police, it would only be because the capitalists can't have their workers killing each other.

[Manic Impressive]

Pardon me, then. The way you said "and how do you propose to do that?" seemed like you were talking down to me. That being said, I've realized that your viewpoint does indeed make the most sense. Even if I somehow stopped a murder while employed for the police, it would only be because the capitalists can't have their workers killing each other.
People do tend to think I'm being hostile when I'm not, thanks for the feedback, I'll try and work on it. I'm also not trying to convince you of anything, I mean the others are also right when they say a job is a job, we're living in capitalism and I'd think the job you're thinking of is well paid. At the end of the day it's only yourself that you have to answer to not us.

[The Machine]

by all means get your paper booboo

[NewLeft]

Interesting.. It's actually a requirement to take Marxist criminology courses for some law programs here.

If you enjoy this type of work, go for it.

[Loony]

Unfortunately the world we live in is capitalistic, and we need to earn a living to put food on the table. There are no ways around that.

Do what you want to do. Do the crime analysis. The police force has many branches and not all of them require skulls to be cracked. It's not like you're joining the SWAT team. And being the person you are, you probably wouldn't join the SWAT team anyways even if it paid a good salary.

A person reaches many points in their lives when they have to weigh up the pros and cons of a situation, and I think you are in one of these.

What are the pro's, besides making money? It's something you're interested in, you'd enjoy it, you'd find it rewarding. This weighs far heavier than money. Not everyone gets to do something they love doing, and getting paid for it is just a bonus. If you are motivated to do it and you can see yourself doing this for life, DO IT! Opportunities like these come by just once or twice in a lifetime. You have the opportunity, you obviously have the financial backing. So go for it.

But remember this: You can turn a Communist into a Capitalist. You cannot turn a Capitalist into a Communist.

EDIT: Sorry, I only saw now that you have options to study other things too. If you have other options, then rather go with something that sits better with you. If it's going to keep you awake at night, rather go for something else.

[eric922]

Marxism isn't a lifestyle. Do what you need to survive.

Also I wouldn't take 'Marxist criminology' too seriously. There seems to be a 'Marxist' everything these days, "Marxist film theory" "Marxist sports car driving theory" etc. It's all nonsense.
To be fair as someone who wants to go to law school and enjoys that sort of thing, I find Critcal Theory to be a very interesting apporach to the legal system. Granted, I'm just starting my reading, but I find it really interesting.

[Ele'ill]

I'd be opposed to taking a job like this.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

I'd be opposed to taking a job like this.

I would expect you to be.

You're the one most likely to run down the streets on May Day yelling "FUCK THE POLICE!!!!" and writing ACAB graffiti on public property.

[Ele'ill]

I would expect you to be.

You're the one most likely to run down the streets on May Day yelling "FUCK THE POLICE!!!!" and writing ACAB graffiti on public property.

This is probably the weakest rebuttal to an opinion I've ever seen on this forum. Fuck you cop apologist scum.

[Dunk]

I'm not particularly upset.

But I think I do have a provocative question to ask. Where do we draw the line? Pinkertons? Enlisting for military service is a neo-fascist regime? Or simply police?

Now, after you contemplate where you draw the line, ask yourself, why exactly do I demarcate this as OK, but something marginally more oppressive as a Rubicon?

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

I'm probably going to be forever blacklisted on this forum as a counterrevolutionary agent of the bourgeoisie, but I need advice, and most of my real life friends aren't as into Marxism as me so they don't quite get the issue.

I'm heavily into sociology. Looking for jobs, I discovered that crime analysis is a growing field with lots of employment opportunities, and requires skills which I am adept at (Computer tech, information-gathering, social analysis, etc). However, the obvious issue with this is that I would be apart of the police, the tool for the bourgeoisie.

I obviously don't want to suppress any political opinions. If I went into the crime analysis field, it would be so I could stop senseless crimes such as rape, murder, worker-on-worker theft, etc. But I also know what the police are, and there will most likely be times when I'd have to do something unsavory, such as halting an Occupy protest or something of the sort. That would make me feel extremely guilty.

However, my justification for considering this is that:
-Crime analysis would be a desk job, pretty much. It's not like I'm going to be out there cracking the skulls of protesters. I could try to bring a social-conflict perspective and explain why people are protesting in the first place. I could also try to prevent police brutality. I know it's impossible to totally reform the police, because at the end of the day they're there to insure capitalist society is protected, but I could make the system a little softer on the oppressed for the time being.
-As mentioned above, I have no problem with assisting in crime prevention when it's senseless and non-progressive. I don't think any communist would say that rape is okay, for instance. Even if I was part of the police, I could still be doing some good by protecting people from wanton acts of violence.
-A job is a job, and no matter what I do, I'm going to be a part of capitalism in some way. It may as well be doing a job that I'm skilled at and enjoy. Wasn't Engels an industrialist? If I did crime analysis, I would at least be in a position to introduce a Marxist perspective to police work. I know there's already a sub-section of criminology called Marxist criminology.

I've been struggling with this decision, so does anyone have any advice? And please restrict my account for ever considering police-related work.

We Will need You when we set up a workers State Comrade.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

This is probably the weakest rebuttal to an opinion I've ever seen on this forum. Fuck you cop apologist scum.

No, I fucking hate the cops, too. The only difference between you and me on the matter is that ACAB is not the fucking center of my political thought. Also, I acknowledge that, obviously, some individual cops are actually good people outside of work, making ACAB stupid.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

This is probably the weakest rebuttal to an opinion I've ever seen on this forum. Fuck you cop apologist scum.

My dad is a police bureaucrat. So what? Believing if *we* leftists wouldn't join the police so that the bourgeois state can't function, is childish. Much more, if everyone stopped working not allowing themselves to be exploited, we wouldn't have capitalism. On the other hand, if we all became capitalists, making more money out of money, we also wouldn't have capitalism.

[Ele'ill]

No, I fucking hate the cops, too. The only difference between you and me on the matter is that ACAB is not the fucking center of my political thought.

No you don't hate the cops too you spent an entire thread defending them and their role (and your uncle)


Also, I acknowledge that, obviously, some individual cops are actually good people outside of work, making ACAB stupid.

:lol:

[Os Cangaceiros]

It's nice to have sympathetic (aka corrupt) people on the inside, as has already been mentioned. As a personal anecdote, someone out near where I live narrowly escaped a big drug bust because he received an "anonymous" phone call from an acquaintance involved in the investigation into why his house was consuming so much power.

But that's a different thing than what you're talking about. What you're talking about just seems to involve being a social control consultant for the po po. That doesn't sound good. As a side note, people have said that communism isn't a lifestyle. While technically true, it's not really a principle that I'd feel comfortable using as a blanket excuse for any and all activities..."yeah, I'm involved in the torture and execution of political prisoners, but hey, communism isn't a lifestyle right?" "yeah, I'm an informant for the FBI who plants evidence on people, but communism isn't a lifestyle lol"

[Dunk]

"I was just following capital's orders."

What's sad is that capital does order us around. It organizes us, rather than us organizing it.

Anyway, when or if the day comes for my admission to my radical friends that capital is leading me into a job that probably ruthlessly takes advantage of other people, I'll pass on informing them.

I'll just keep torturing myself with dreams of revolution.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

(and your uncle)

Sorry, he's forty. He's a big boy now and I can't really tell him what to do.

And I was not supporting them as much as I was proving that ACAB taken literally is stupid. I decided that the term "fuck the police" was much more appropriate, because it attacks a group (particularly, the purpose of said group) rather than individuals that are all very different. If you look at ACAB literally, by what it actually says, it is stupid.

[Ele'ill]

Believing if *we* leftists wouldn't join the police so that the bourgeois state can't function, is childish.

How about not joining/wouldn't join the police so that you don't have to fuck up and incarcerate fellow dissident workers?



Much more, if everyone stopped working not allowing themselves to be exploited, we wouldn't have capitalism. On the other hand, if we all became capitalists, making more money out of money, we also wouldn't have capitalism.

what

[Dunk]

my dad is a police bureaucrat. So what? Believing if *we* leftists wouldn't join the police so that the bourgeois state can't function, is childish. Much more, if everyone stopped working not allowing themselves to be exploited, we wouldn't have capitalism. On the other hand, if we all became capitalists, making more money out of money, we also wouldn't have capitalism.

cop detected

[Loony]

..

[#FF0000]

dont be a cop dummy

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

I would expect you to be.

You're the one most likely to run down the streets on May Day yelling "FUCK THE POLICE!!!!" and writing ACAB graffiti on public property.

Like every good activist would. ;)

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

I would never work for the police. There are some lines that shouldn't be crossed if one is a class struggle revolutionary.

[Nox]

With that job, you would generally be combating actual crime, not oppressing the proletariat. So it should be fine.

Anyway, as others have said, Marxism isn't a lifestyle.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Anyway, as others have said, Marxism isn't a lifestyle.
No, but it should imply a certain perspective toward the bourgeois state and its repressive organs such as the police.

[Nox]

No, but it should imply a certain perspective toward the bourgeois state and its repressive organs such as the police.

Yeah I agree that some jobs would be 'pushing it', but I think the job he is considering is not too bad.

[Ostrinski]

This is being made harder than it has to be. Just don't do anything that goes against your conscience obviously.

[Left Leanings]

I'm probably going to be forever blacklisted on this forum as a counterrevolutionary agent of the bourgeoisie, but I need advice, and most of my real life friends aren't as into Marxism as me so they don't quite get the issue.

I'm heavily into sociology. Looking for jobs, I discovered that crime analysis is a growing field with lots of employment opportunities, and requires skills which I am adept at (Computer tech, information-gathering, social analysis, etc). However, the obvious issue with this is that I would be apart of the police, the tool for the bourgeoisie.

I obviously don't want to suppress any political opinions. If I went into the crime analysis field, it would be so I could stop senseless crimes such as rape, murder, worker-on-worker theft, etc. But I also know what the police are, and there will most likely be times when I'd have to do something unsavory, such as halting an Occupy protest or something of the sort. That would make me feel extremely guilty.

However, my justification for considering this is that:
-Crime analysis would be a desk job, pretty much. It's not like I'm going to be out there cracking the skulls of protesters. I could try to bring a social-conflict perspective and explain why people are protesting in the first place. I could also try to prevent police brutality. I know it's impossible to totally reform the police, because at the end of the day they're there to insure capitalist society is protected, but I could make the system a little softer on the oppressed for the time being.
-As mentioned above, I have no problem with assisting in crime prevention when it's senseless and non-progressive. I don't think any communist would say that rape is okay, for instance. Even if I was part of the police, I could still be doing some good by protecting people from wanton acts of violence.
-A job is a job, and no matter what I do, I'm going to be a part of capitalism in some way. It may as well be doing a job that I'm skilled at and enjoy. Wasn't Engels an industrialist? If I did crime analysis, I would at least be in a position to introduce a Marxist perspective to police work. I know there's already a sub-section of criminology called Marxist criminology.

I've been struggling with this decision, so does anyone have any advice? And please restrict my account for ever considering police-related work.

Comrade, please do not work for the police, in any capacity.

You can find a better job than this :)

[Robespierres Neck]

Purged.

[Questionable]

Thanks everyone for the wise words, but I'm not sure this thread needs to continue. I've pretty much decided that I'm not going to pursue this occupation. I had a moment of doubt because the job seemed very interesting and it was in high demand, but I think I'd rather hold out for something that's in better alignment with my personal beliefs.

Joining the police with the promise that I'd be fighting criminals rather than proletarians makes about as much sense as joining the army to fight terrorists instead of spread imperialism. I feel kind of silly for even posting this topic.

[Loony]

Don't feel silly. We all have moments of doubt sometimes in our lives, and often an outside opinion can help you see angles you haven't thought of before. That's how we learn, :)

[Robespierres Neck]

In all seriousness, I had a friend who was conflicted about this too. He had the chance to join the Marine Corps. Whether your Marxist or not, you must do what you need to survive in whatever the condition is. Then again, there are certain jobs that just feel like you're crossing boundaries. I wouldn't expect a Limbaugh-listening conservative to want to get work at a leftist bookshop or whatnot (bad example, I know).

But do what you got to do. I'm glad you made that decision though.

[No_Leaders]

Don't do it! You have the choice to join an oppressive force that commits crime every single day. Why would you want to be a part of that? I understand needing to do what you have to to put food on the table and make ends meet but surely there's alternatives? You need to take a step back and really think about what you may be doing here. This isn't just another job, you'll be working directly for the state, for the boys in blue, who's job it is to crush dissent, harass, intimidate and kill. Fuck the pigs.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Thanks everyone for the wise words, but I'm not sure this thread needs to continue. I've pretty much decided that I'm not going to pursue this occupation. I had a moment of doubt because the job seemed very interesting and it was in high demand, but I think I'd rather hold out for something that's in better alignment with my personal beliefs.

Joining the police with the promise that I'd be fighting criminals rather than proletarians makes about as much sense as joining the army to fight terrorists instead of spread imperialism. I feel kind of silly for even posting this topic.

That's your decision, but the only weird thing about this is you thinking Marxism is a lifestyle or that you are really gonna spend all day crushing the revolution at a job like that. You know what? No, actually the weirdest thing about all this is that you felt the urge to consult with a bunch of internet leftists that you have never met before on such an important personal issue as employment. I hope you already had your mind made up beforehand, because a bunch of random Internet leftists influencing your important life decisions is sort of sad, in my opinion. If I had no job, I would have taken it.

[Railyon]

Wow, and I felt bad for even considering working for a non-rev union (because that's one of the very few jobs I could do with my education without flipping burgers :thumbdown:).

Also lol at the special few people among us advocating ideological purity but then do a 180 on this issue, like seriously.

Aufhebengate still lingers in the air...

[honest john's firing squad]

yelling "FUCK THE POLICE!!!!" and writing ACAB graffiti on public property.
You say that like it's a bad thing

[Veovis]

Like others have said, Marxism ain't lifestyle politics.

Just don't let life inside the system change you.

[Grenzer]

Personally, I'd never work for the police, but do whatever you want. As others have said, Marxism isn't a lifestyle. Good to hear that you're considering a new field of work, I wish you luck.

[corolla]

What exactly is crime analysis, anyway? I mean it isn't as if you would be breaking up strikes and all that jazz, right? So if not, don't listen to all the moralizing here mostly by people who are in no position to moralize anyway, and do what you feel.

[Sea]

OP should take the job if you ask me. I'd much rather see that happen than to see Lt. John Birch Policecop take the position. Besides, it may give a chance to see the sausage-grinder from the grinder's point of view (Yes, I know that's an awful analogy and no, you don't need to point it out to me.). I'm not sure where you are, OP, but I suspect a proud true-blue patriot with a proud true-blue patriot wife and a proud true-blue bouncin' baby boy would be happy to snatch the jub up if you turn it down. I know my reasoning might remind you of the archetypical heroin dealer who justifies his work by thinking If I don't sell this smack, maybe someone else would be in my place and add arsenic and sell it! I'm saving lives here! but th---- actually I'll stop there. I have a feeling I'll end up turning this thread into a debate about drug harm reduction. Anywho, go for it.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

You say that like it's a bad thing

I didn't mean as a necessarily bad thing, I meant as a thing she would do. She took offence, boohoo.

[Bolshevik_Guerilla_1917]

Its difficult to be the best Marxist u can when u live in a Capitalist world, but then again its not a lifestyle, unless u want it to be.

[ridethejetski]

Its not like you're out there cracking skulls. Workers make the police their helmets, jackets and bats. Workers produce police cars. Worker mechanics maintain police cars. Workers build the police stations and jails. All this allows the police to do their job also. Don't worry about it.

[TrotskistMarx]

WfORnXTH7HA

That is an easy question with an easy answer. The answer to that question is to fight. Because socialism marxism is a matter of life and death. Because of the fact that the present of the capitalist system is called *neoliberalism*. Which is a phase of capitalism that doesn't have subsidized affordable health care, or totally free health care services to the masses. That means that in this neoliberalism phase if your elderly parents or grandparents are sick or have a major health problem that is too expensive, they literally die, because on those in the upper middle classes and upper classes can afford health care services. So to be a socialist to choose socialism over capitalism is an option that you chose in order not to die. Anybody who wants to force you into quitting socialism wants to murder you, and murder your family by denying them the life-saving free health care system of socialism over the murderer system of capitalism with ultra-expensive medical care. So that person that wants you to quit socialism is really an evil person, and you should consider that person an enemy. So learn to fight. DON'T LET ANYBODY IN THIS WORLD TELL YOU WHAT TO DO. LEARN TO FIGHT, FIGHT WITH ANYBODY WHO TRIES TO TELL YOU WHAT TO DO AND AND WHAT TO SAY LIKE IN THIS VIDEO OF TRANSPORTER 3. BECAUSE THE PARADISE LIES UNDER THE SHADOWS OF THE SWORDS !!






I'm probably going to be forever blacklisted on this forum as a counterrevolutionary agent of the bourgeoisie, but I need advice, and most of my real life friends aren't as into Marxism as me so they don't quite get the issue.

I'm heavily into sociology. Looking for jobs, I discovered that crime analysis is a growing field with lots of employment opportunities, and requires skills which I am adept at (Computer tech, information-gathering, social analysis, etc). However, the obvious issue with this is that I would be apart of the police, the tool for the bourgeoisie.

I obviously don't want to suppress any political opinions. If I went into the crime analysis field, it would be so I could stop senseless crimes such as rape, murder, worker-on-worker theft, etc. But I also know what the police are, and there will most likely be times when I'd have to do something unsavory, such as halting an Occupy protest or something of the sort. That would make me feel extremely guilty.

However, my justification for considering this is that:
-Crime analysis would be a desk job, pretty much. It's not like I'm going to be out there cracking the skulls of protesters. I could try to bring a social-conflict perspective and explain why people are protesting in the first place. I could also try to prevent police brutality. I know it's impossible to totally reform the police, because at the end of the day they're there to insure capitalist society is protected, but I could make the system a little softer on the oppressed for the time being.
-As mentioned above, I have no problem with assisting in crime prevention when it's senseless and non-progressive. I don't think any communist would say that rape is okay, for instance. Even if I was part of the police, I could still be doing some good by protecting people from wanton acts of violence.
-A job is a job, and no matter what I do, I'm going to be a part of capitalism in some way. It may as well be doing a job that I'm skilled at and enjoy. Wasn't Engels an industrialist? If I did crime analysis, I would at least be in a position to introduce a Marxist perspective to police work. I know there's already a sub-section of criminology called Marxist criminology.

I've been struggling with this decision, so does anyone have any advice? And please restrict my account for ever considering police-related work.

[Hit The North]

Well, I was a paid police spy inside the SWP for years without compromising my Marxist principles.

Haha. Only joking!

[Ele'ill]

Its not like you're out there cracking skulls. Workers make the police their helmets, jackets and bats. Workers produce police cars. Worker mechanics maintain police cars. Workers build the police stations and jails. All this allows the police to do their job also. Don't worry about it.


Yes, when you're tasked with forensics to charge left dissidents with felonies to send them to prison remember that 'you're not cracking their skulls or n e thing'. When you're tasked with forensics to charge humans with felonies to send them to prison remember that you're not 'a part of the cop system' and that your personal career makes allowance for the state. I'm also highly skeptical that the only job available is a career as a highly trained forensics/ social engineering/information gatherer working for the police department. Fuck that.

[marl]

If you don't take the job somebody else will. And they might be worse than you.

[Comrade Jandar]

The people saying that "it's not a lifestyle," would be the first to sell out their fellow comrades to law enforcement.

[Railyon]

The people saying that "it's not a lifestyle," would be the first to sell out their fellow comrades to law enforcement.

Which is, sadly, par for the course in some "communist" circles. If I pointed any fingers now I'd be an "imperialist lapdog" and "flamebaiting" though.

[Koba Junior]

Marxism is just about being aware of your position in society with regards to production. For the most part, the state protects property, and that is what you would be doing as a police officer. That being said, it isn't the most ignoble thing you could do to survive. Remember what you would expect of officers if you were not one yourself, and act in consideration of those expectations.