Left Wing? Right Wing? Does it really matter?

[jaredong]

Does it really matter what political standing you are? Seriously. From what i understand, both sides think that racism, nazism, slavery, anti human rights is the fault of the other side.

If everyone was against such things, why is it that nobody can really work together to solve problems? Im going to as far as to say that some left wing ideas can and are impossible and wrong. Same thing goes for right wiing ideas, some are can and are wrong too.

Why can we not simply abandon politics as a "with us / against us" idea? There is very little poltical standing in some places, take a school club. there isnt extactly right/left wing ideas, people just go there to have fun, enjoy themselves, and sometimes, help other people by volunteering.

Information on both sides can be said to be biased and sometimes take out of context. Although there is a high body count and many civilian lives have been taken, it is true that Sadam was a horrible dictator and should be dealt with in some way or another.

Im not saying that right is right and left is wrong or vice versa, but dont you think, pepole in all these political forums simply forget the good sometimes? we are all human and would help another human out given the chance.

Im not here trying to argue that right wing theories or right or left wing theories are right, b/c well, i dont expect to win in a forum like this. But what im trying to say is that, perhaps there is another way to the whole thing? outside of poltics, without all the political lingo and termology.

like Bono said "im not a liberal supporter, im not a suporter of any politcal party. i`ll have dinner with the devil if i have to." (in response on getting help for the aids pandemic happening in the world).

To close, the speech from the great dictator by charlie chaplin


I'm sorry, but I don't want to be emperor. I don't want to rule or conquer anyone. I should like to help everyone, if possible -- Jew, Gentile -- black men -- white . . .

The way of life can be beautiful, but we have lost the way. Greed has poisoned men's souls -- has barricaded the world with hate -- has goose-stepped us into misery and bloodshed. We have developed speed, but we have shut ourselves in. Machinery that gives abundance has left us in want. Our knowledge has made us cynical; our cleverness, hard and unkind. We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery we need humanity. More than cleverness we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost.

We are coming out of the darkness into the light! We are coming into a new world! Look up, Hannah! The soul of man has been given wings and at last he is beginning to fly. He is flying into the rainbow -- into the light of hope. Look up, Hannah! Look up!

[Pete]

Welcome,

The problem is that we leftists have an aim. That aim is to completely change the face of society. To shatter what exists today and not replace it (this depends on the brand of leftism). To allow humans to help eachother out without blinding greed and misfortune that are caused by the current way of life. We want to be like the phoenix and rise from the flames of a society that is collapsing upon itself in order to live as we should. As humans, not as slaves of any sort.

The problem is people reject this goal, and hence the divisions.

-Pete

[Guest1]

what I say next is not meant as an attack against you, understand this much.

you are a sheep, no offense.

the fact is, so long as you think everyone can live together and we should avoid conflict (I don't mean war necessarily) at all costs, you can never hope to change anything for the better.

where would blacks be if malcom x and martin luther king jr. had tried to sit it out and talk together with the KKK? what if they refused to say anything or define themselves as civil rights activists, cause they didn't want to cause conflict? what if rosa parks had sat at the back, and tried to talk to the bus driver afterwards?

the slave-drivers still exist today, and so do the black folks who encourage their children to sit at the back of the bus and not talk back to the white man. only they're not just blacks anymore. and alot of their children have internet access.

[UnionofSovietSocialistRepublics]

jaredong, you are misguided, the aim of the left is unity-but to achieve this socialism must come into power.

take a school club. there isnt extactly right/left wing ideas, people just go there to have fun, enjoy themselves, and sometimes, help other people by volunteering.
A school club iwould be a left wing phonomonon- (to generalise..) its free of charge, so rich and poor are welcome-or minimal costs subsidised by the state, and also helping other people by volunteering.

[redstar2000]

We think too much and feel too little.

Mr. Chaplin was quite wrong about that. There is always an over-abundance of "feeling" and a desperate shortage of critical thinking.

"Feeling" is "easy". Rush Limbaugh does it. The pope does it. Hitler did it. Anybody can do it.

Critical thinking is hard. It requires effort. And no little courage either.

If you begin to think critically about social reality--as Marx and Engels did--then things become clear that are otherwise lost in the fog of "feeling".

All of the higher mammals clearly demonstrate recognizable emotions: affection, fear, hatred. Only humans (as far as we know) can set those emotions aside, at least temporarily, and critically and rationally examine reality and draw verifiable conclusions about it.

Historically, the "left" has been slightly more capable of doing this than the "right". We all know that racism, patriotism, misogyny, homophobia, etc. are almost always found on the right. We know that the struggle against those emotional convictions has almost always come from the "left"...based on rational argument and verifiable evidence.

This is not to deny that we lefties are all too often vulnerable to emotional appeals...but it is to suggest that we have the potential to "see through them" to the underlying reality. The righties by and large appear to lack that capacity.

That's the difference.


I'll have dinner with the devil if I have to."

What Bono means here is that he's willing to front for the most odious and exploitative corporations in the world if they'll throw him some pocket change for his favorite charity.

Celebrities often think of themselves as being "a unique class" of people who write "their own rules" that just apply to them. Their standards do not apply to people like you and me.

Therefore, if I were you, I'd be extremely leery about taking their advice on pretty much anything. Bono may indeed "sup with the devil", but his personal fortune allows him to purchase an extremely long spoon.

That's not the case for us.

http://anarchist-action.org/forums/images/smiles/redstar.gif

The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/)
A site about communist ideas

[jaredong]

yeah perhaps im a sheep (i`ve been called worst so thats pretty nice of you :))

but ionno. Left wingers talk about having unity and equality and such right? Shouldnt we try to unite "everyone" instead of just the left wing people? Like, im all for having revolutionary changes that benefit everyone, but it cant be forced. Like, if the people dont want it, alot of violence would erupt if it just happens wont it?

Im by no means saying that we sit back, allow things to happen and play the ignorance is bliss card, but more of lead by example kind of thing. Live life as you would see fit. Like, dont like major corporations ruining people`s lives? Dont buy from them and when people see that it is entirely possible to live happily without them, then maybe they`ll realise that the lifestyle is possible. Actions speak louder than words and methods that work would work.

What im saying is, instead of getting caught up in the differences in the politics of everything, maybe just concentrate on personal change and then perhaps it would effect others as well. Why cant we all just get along?

I have a science teacher who when asked whether he would donate money for the world vision 30 hour famine, and he said that once the people there learnt to eat dirt, they wouldnt strave to death. Without being said, that is pretty horrible mean thing to say by him. And yet, he is one of the coolest science teacher i know, and is in by no means a bad person or anything. I know that given the choice, he would prolly help out in other ways, but due to whatever misguided reason, he choose not to help me out in that.

Point is, i believe that instead of arguing whos "right" and whos "wrong" (as they put it in the right winged forums), actions would speak louder than words. Take organisations like say... the Red Cross. They dont take any sides of the war, they have no political standing whatsoever and would help either side of the conflict no matter the religion, race or nationality. They are just there to help the injured and try to prevent suffering of human rights. Shouldnt more organisations be like that?

Furthermore, i believe education and truthful facts and figures in all subject matter would seriously help out. The whole issue with either side saying that Nazis are from the other side of the political specturm. (nazis = national socialist group says right wingers), while i myself believe nazis are definetly right wing. Why cant people agree on facts and history?

More than anything, let the past bury its dead. We`re not living the the past. We must learn from it, but we should not dwell upon it and keep the tension between everyone up dont you think? If anything, people should be more understanding and more educated, logical and sensible.

[Guest1]

Your point is an educated one, but unfortuantely, quite idealistic. It is self-defeating. There's a quote that really fits here:

Ignoring the fight between oppressor and oppressed does not mean being neutral, it means fighting whole-heartedly with the powerful.

[Xuix]

It really is a matter of choice to you what you think is the best form of government, that's why I think, nobodies gonna be happy regardless if the government is left or right. Everybody has different opinions which can be a problem, yet its freedom, without those opinions and individual thinking we ARE nothing but sheeps. I am a leftist yes, but even if the WHOLE world was run in a leftist way people are still going to be unhappy. It might be the best form of government but it's not going to please everyone.

[cubist]

i thing the words would be less apathy more empathy,

not that i agree or disagree i have no standing on it,

i would say

Sitting on the fence leaves you liable to be shot by both sides