Anarchists Try To Blow Up Bridge In Ohio

[Brosa Luxemburg]

What a bunch of fucking dipshits.

Here is a link. http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/anarchists-plotted-blow-cleveland-bridge-fbi/story?id=16252571#.T6Ak0at8A0c

Pretty sure that blowing up bridges has nothing to do with anarchism. How is this supposed to bring people on to your side?

[Anarcho-Brocialist]

Wright, the alleged ringleader, had also discussed trying to recruit homeless people from shelters to carry out his plans to attack symbols of corporate and financial institutions.

Left Anarchist do not exploit the homeless and make them commit crimes. These guys weren't anarchists, they were rebels without a cause.

[Railyon]

Propaganda of the deed still around, eh?

Reminds me of the letter bomb attack on, I think the chef of the Deutsche Bank it was. Like DUH! Letters don't get opened by the bourgies themselves, silly. :thumbdown:

[TheRedAnarchist23]

It is anarchist to blow up banks, but it is not anarchist to blow up public property.

If only they had read post #52...

On the other hand maybe they were payed by the government to make anarchists look bad, that would make sence!

[TheRedAnarchist23]

Good to know propaganda of the deed is back, maybe with that we will see some change.

[Brosa Luxemburg]

It is anarchist to blow up banks, but it is not anarchist to blow up public property.

Disagree unless in time of true revolution.


If only they had read post #52...

Lol, this will always be a good inside joke.


On the other hand maybe they were payed by the government to make anarchists look bad, that would make sence!

No.

[Mindtoaster]

Lol, they were using the Anarchist Cookbook to make the explosives

The FBI did them a favor, they were just going to wind up blowing themselves up

[Krano]

May Day and terrorist attack from the left? im not much for conspiracies, but this seems really suspicious.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

lol...a bridge? Why not a bank or something? Unless it was heavily traveled by corporate swine it would have been a useless action anyways.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Don't they know that you don't need bombs to destroy bridges? With the current state of maintenance funding it's only a question of when we get another I-35W bridge type collapse.

[TheRedAnarchist23]

lol...a bridge? Why not a bank or something? Unless it was heavily traveled by corporate swine it would have been a useless action anyways.

They did explode a bank a week before.

[hatzel]

Fuck bridges.

[RedHal]

a fucken bridge? how terrorist cliche can you get? Time to raise the terrorism alert every May Day from now on

[TheGodlessUtopian]

They did explode a bank a week before.

Total destruction or just scorch marks?

[Nox]

I can guarantee they are An-Caps

[Railyon]

Good to know propaganda of the deed is back, maybe with that we will see some change.

>>Implying propaganda of the deed ever did anything else than get people killed and arrested

Seriously. All it has done for us is making us look like loons.

[WanderingCactus]

Death to our exploitative masters: bridges.

[cyu]

I'll just leave this here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag

False flag operations are covert operations designed to deceive in such a way that the operations appear as though they are being carried out by other entities.

The replacement of Iran's Anglo-Persian Oil Company with five American oil companies and the 1953 Iranian coup d'état in 1953 was the consequence of the U.S. and British-orchestrated false flag operation, Operation Ajax, to depose the democratically elected leader of Iran, Mohammed Mosaddeq.

The planned, but never executed, 1962 Operation Northwoods plot by the U.S. Department of Defense for a war with Cuba involved scenarios such as fabricating the hijacking or shooting down passenger and military planes, sinking a U.S. ship in the vicinity of Cuba, burning crops, sinking a boat filled with Cuban refugees, attacks by alleged Cuban infiltrators inside the United States, and harassment of U.S. aircraft and shipping and the destruction of aerial drones by aircraft disguised as Cuban MiGs. These actions would be blamed on Cuba, and would be a pretext for an invasion of Cuba and the overthrow of Fidel Castro's communist government. It was authored by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but then rejected by President John F. Kennedy.

On February 19, 2011, Indiana Deputy Prosecutor Carlos Lam sent a private email to Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker suggesting that he run a "'false flag' operation" to counter the protests against Walker's proposed restrictions on public employees' collective bargaining rights. "If you could employ an associate who pretends to be sympathetic to the unions' cause to physically attack you (or even use a firearm against you), you could discredit the unions," read the email. It went on to say that the effort "would assist in undercutting any support that the media may be creating in favor of the unions." The press had acquired a court order to access all of Walker's emails and Lam's email was exposed. At first, Lam vehemently denied it, but eventually admitted it and resigned.

During a 1981 interview, former CIA agent Michael Townley explained that Ignacio Novo Sampol, member of CORU, an anti-Castro organization, had agreed to commit the Cuban Nationalist Movement in the kidnapping, in Buenos Aires, of a president of a Dutch bank. After returning to the US, Novo Sampol sent Townley a stock of paper, used to print pamphlets in the name of "Grupo Rojo" (Red Group), an imaginary Argentine Marxist terrorist organization, which was to claim credit for the kidnapping of the Dutch banker. the pamphlets were distributed in Mendoza and Córdoba in relation with false flag bombings perpetrated by SIDE agents, which had as their aim to accredit the existence of the fake Grupo Rojo. However, the SIDE agents procrastinated too much, and the kidnapping ultimately was not carried out.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

It's just another FBI story like all the recent 'terrorist plots' have been. A fed goes in, creates a group from whatever desperate or stupid individuals they can get their hands on, comes up with a plan, and then gets lots of audio evidence of the 'cell' hard at work getting ready to execute the plan. Cue Americans hiding under their beds and demanding the FBI have it's budget increased.

[Martin Blank]

Has anybody ever heard of these five idiots?

[Left Leanings]

It's just another FBI story like all the recent 'terrorist plots' have been. A fed goes in, creates a group from whatever desperate or stupid individuals they can get their hands on, comes up with a plan, and then gets lots of audio evidence of the 'cell' hard at work getting ready to execute the plan. Cue Americans hiding under their beds and demanding the FBI have it's budget increased.

Exactly.

I detect the devious hand of the state here. More bad media coverage of "anarchists" aka propaganda for capital; and yet a further justification for anti-terror and oppressive laws.

[Book O'Dead]

Possibly imbecile victims of agents provocateurs.

Somewhere I read that provocateurs usually help raise the hand that throws the bomb, and when the smoke clears, they leave their dupes behind, hanging by the neck.

[BOZG]

It is anarchist to blow up banks....

Why is it?

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Why is it?
cuz that's where all the money is man. You blow it up and capitalism is over.

[Bronco]

I can guarantee they are An-Caps

Why would they be? I mean, there's barely any of them outside of the internet, and I'm sure there's even fewer who would advocate terrorism. And considering their chosen targets this would make even less sense from an An-Cap perspective:


Wright, the alleged ringleader, also allegedly discussed trying to recruit homeless people from shelters to carry out his plans to attack symbols of corporate and financial institutions.


Brandon Baxter allegedly told the informant that destroying a bridge would cause great financial harm.

"Taking out a Bridge in the business district would cost the … corporate big wigs a lot of money," Baxter allegedly said.

[Ocean Seal]

Seriously. All it has done for us is making us look like loons.
Yeah propaganda by the deed, that thing from back when we were a mass movement. Scaring the impressionable workers away...

[Tim Finnegan]

I can guarantee they are An-Caps
I think that attributing them any coherent politics whatsoever is over-generous.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

I think its very likely there's a police provocateur behind this. It was released just in time to hit the corporate evening TV news of the May Day demos. The media needs some violence and dark hints of terrorism to discredit any mass unrest against their bleak, dying system.

[Seth]

You're stupid if you think that:

1. Blowing a bridge will harm capitalism. If anything a company now has a contract to rebuild it.

2. You won't kill people for no reason whatsoever.

3. The meaning of the act could possibly be understood, much less viewed positively.

4. The state won't get you.

This is how things like Propaganda of the Deed have poisoned the left all throughout history. I get the feeling that these imbeciles got the idea from V for Vendetta.

[Seth]

And there's no plot here to discredit any ideology or anything like that. This is classic entrapment and happens to Islamists all the time. Obviously they chose May Day because they're anarchists.

[Caj]

Yeah propaganda by the deed, that thing from back when we were a mass movement. Scaring the impressionable workers away...

Propaganda by the deed arose after the seperation of the anarchists from the workers' movement.

[Tabarnack]

...and it's the FBI that provided the explosives, and I'm guessing they also the provided the motivation to do it...

False flags ops and agent provocateurs are as common as dog shit.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Some undercover FBI agent did a good job finding some Anarcho-dummies and tricking them into a one-way trip to prison for a very long time. These guys are better at unintentionally making Anarchists look bad than taking on "the system"

[Os Cangaceiros]

Propaganda by the deed arose after the seperation of the anarchists from the workers' movement.

It started popping up with some frequency after the St Imier International was dissolved in 1877.

I think it would be hard if not impossible to argue that anarchist involvement in the workers' movement ended in 1877...

[Os Cangaceiros]

Also, a tip to any future prospective Unabombers: if someone comes up to you, say at a social gathering, and says "hey man, heard you might want to blow some shit up, I've got some C4, just hit me up bro"...you probably shouldn't trust that person.

[Caj]

It started popping up with some frequency after the St Imier International was dissolved in 1877.

I think it would be hard if not impossible to argue that anarchist involvement in the workers' movement ended in 1877...

The anarchists began having a diminished role within the workers' movement with their expulsion from the First International in 1872.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I would argue that, on the contrary, anarchist involvement in the worker's movement peaked w/ their role in powerful revolutionary syndicalist organizations around the beginning of the 20th century.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

This is objectively awesome. :blackA:

[Caj]

This is objectively awesome. :blackA:

. . . I hope you're kidding.


I would argue that, on the contrary, anarchist involvement in the worker's movement peaked w/ their role in powerful revolutionary syndicalist organizations around the beginning of the 20th century.

I would agree. I think that revolutionary syndicalism reflected more of a unification between the anarchist and workers' movements than had existed hitherto; however, I think there was a period between this and the anarchists' expulsion from the First International that was characterized by "revolutionary" idiocy such as propaganda by the deed which was the result of an isolation of the anarchist movement from the workers' movement.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I would agree. I think that revolutionary syndicalism reflected more of a unification between the anarchist and workers' movements than had existed hitherto; however, I think there was a period between this and the anarchists' expulsion from the First International that was characterized by "revolutionary" idiocy such as propaganda by the deed which was the result of an isolation of the anarchist movement from the workers' movement.

fair enough

[RedHal]

blowing up bridges, and now a suspicious white powder mailed anonymously to various banks with "Happy May Day" written, the FBI are really short of new ideas, but I guess whatever works...

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

. . . I hope you're kidding.


I am considering they got caught and it's now under federal investigation. I'm also not ruling out the possibility that they could be patsies.

[heyjoe]

how do people like this lately always pick out the fbi informer to work with? Im hoping none of them had revleft accounts.

[Tabarnack]

how do people like this lately always pick out the fbi informer to work with?

because the informer is more than that, he is also the ring leader...

[Krano]

blowing up bridges, and now a suspicious white powder mailed anonymously to various banks with "Happy May Day" written, the FBI are really short of new ideas, but I guess whatever works...
From OWS drum circle to planting bombs and mailing anthrax, nobody in there right mind should belive this.

[Raúl Duke]

Pretty stupid action, even if blowing shit up was your deal.
I mean...a bridge? I'm still waiting for someone to try to blow up wall st stock exchange, headquarters of banks, places with debt/mortgage/etc databases (erase people's debts); you know Operation Mayhem stuff. Not that I'm suggesting it though, in the long run nothing good might come of it.

Blowing up a bridge won't bring a revolution.

[Tabarnack]

From OWS drum circle to planting bombs and mailing anthrax, nobody in there right mind should belive this.

Well when Muslims are accused of terrorism, we as "good Marxists" do not question it and believe whatever crap is fed to us by the corporate media.

By the way the 2001 anthrax letters came from the USA government's biodefense labs at Fort Detrick in Frederick, Maryland.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

@Kontrrazvedka: No spam. Will delete post.

[bcbm]

its refreshing to see so many 'revolutionaries' tripping over themselves to buy into the state's story and condemn these individuals.

[Ostrinski]

its refreshing to see so many 'revolutionaries' tripping over themselves to buy into the state's story and condemn these individuals.While I agree I don't think people here are condemning them for the same reasons.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

its refreshing to see so many 'revolutionaries' tripping over themselves to buy into the state's story and condemn these individuals.

Ummm, no. Anarchists (particularly the ones obsessed with the propaganda of the deed) have long been known to commit terrorist attacks on even public property. Sooooooo, this is probably not made up, although I understand where you are coming from.

[Raúl Duke]

My main gripe is that they targeted a bridge, to be honest.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Ummm, no. Anarchists (particularly the ones obsessed with the propaganda of the deed) have long been known to commit terrorist attacks on even public property. Sooooooo, this is probably not made up, althought I understand where you are coming from.

I am no defender of anarchist theory but when have they had a long history of "terrorist" attacks?

[Raúl Duke]

From what I remember from 1800s early 1900s propaganda of the deed...

They would target places mostly only rich people frequent and/or assasinate certain people like presidents, politicians, bosses, etc.

Never heard of them targeting public property nor was their aim in "causing general terror"...just terror for the bourgeoisie.

[Ostrinski]

There were many acts of terror by anarchists during the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, to their credit.

[bcbm]

Ummm, no. Anarchists (particularly the ones obsessed with the propaganda of the deed) have long been known to commit terrorist attacks on even public property. Sooooooo, this is probably not made up, althought I understand where you are coming from.


My main gripe is that they targeted a bridge, to be honest.

even if these people were inclined to something it is pretty obvious the confidential informant was holding their hand and nudging them in a certain direction... conveniently no recorder was worn until after someone else is accused of bringing up c4. prior to this they were talking about targeting a casino opening with stink bombs and paint guns. pretty big leap from that to c4 and bridge demolitions. and they specifically talk about not harming anyone whatever they do. to first quote too, since some islamic radicals 'have been known to commit terrorist attacks' do you think all the recent 'plots' foiled by the fbi were legit too?

[Luc]

my fuck do they ever say "alleged" alot...

didn't Guevara want to blow up the liberty statue lady? now that shit's great but a bridge? gunna kill alot of proles

assuming it's all true of course. :sleep:

i'd like to see more proof next thing you know we anarchists will be blowing up baby incubators...

[Manic Impressive]

If these guys had C4 for brains they wouldn't have enough to blow their hats off

[bcbm]

lol yeah dum dums getting set up by the fbi what a bunch of morons!:rolleyes:

'the anarchist 'terrorists' arrested in may day plot were supplied by the fbi and an informant with a lengthy criminal record' (http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/fbi-anarchist-terrorists-may-day-ohio/5988/)

[Manic Impressive]

lol yeah dum dums getting set up by the fbi what a bunch of morons!:rolleyes:

'the anarchist 'terrorists' arrested in may day plot were supplied by the fbi and an informant with a lengthy criminal record' (http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/fbi-anarchist-terrorists-may-day-ohio/5988/)
I don't know what you're trying to say here, that they were smart to be set up by the FBI? They put themselves in that position, they're fecking idiots.

thanks for the extra source though

[Martin Blank]

lol yeah dum dums getting set up by the fbi what a bunch of morons!:rolleyes:

'the anarchist 'terrorists' arrested in may day plot were supplied by the fbi and an informant with a lengthy criminal record' (http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/fbi-anarchist-terrorists-may-day-ohio/5988/)

I figured it was either a false flag or entrapment (or both).

[Martin Blank]

Ummm, no. Anarchists (particularly the ones obsessed with the propaganda of the deed) have long been known to commit terrorist attacks on even public property. Sooooooo, this is probably not made up, although I understand where you are coming from.

I think that the whole use of individual terrorism ("propaganda of the deed") went out with Gavrilo Princip.

[bcbm]

I don't know what you're trying to say here, that they were smart to be set up by the FBI? They put themselves in that position, they're fecking idiots.

it sounds like some simple bravado and light plans were manipulated and led by the informant and fbi handlers into something none of the parties involved seemed all that committed too but probably felt compelled to not back out of due to group dynamics. this doesn't make them idiots, it means the fbi is very good at this type of thing and has a long history of it- look at a number of the green scare cases, the recent 'plots' by islamic radicals etc. everyone of them is just some idiot? i don't think so. and by just railing off on them as 'fecking idiots' you are condemning the victims instead of the people who set them up, nice solidarity with some people in trouble. absolutely pathetic.

[Luc]

I think that the whole use of individual terrorism ("propaganda of the deed") went out with Gavrilo Princip.

lol wut?

PoD was being used all through up the Franco regime in Spain by people such the First of May Group...

and PoD is not a simily of Terrorism

edit: lol sorry I kind of sound like an asswhole I mean not to :lol:

[bcbm]

I think that the whole use of individual terrorism ("propaganda of the deed") went out with Gavrilo Princip.

he was a nationalist not an anarchist

[ComradeGrant]

When my mom first told me this my response was "No intelligent or legitimate Anarchist would do something this stupid." While that generalization may be false, in this case I'm happy I was right.

[Luc]

he was a nationalist not an anarchist

too bad they took the name "The Black Hand" :mad: god damn that would make a great insurrecto-anarchist name :wub:

[Martin Blank]

lol wut?

PoD was being used all through up the Franco regime in Spain by people such the First of May Group...

and PoD is not a simile (sic) of Terrorism

I'm aware that propaganda of the deed is not a synonym for terrorism, hence the reason I put it in quote marks. Perhaps I should have also put "so-called" in front of it in the parenthetical, but I didn't really think it was necessary. My mistake.

[Luc]

I'm aware that propaganda of the deed is not a synonym for terrorism, hence the reason I put it in quote marks. Perhaps I should have also put "so-called" in front of it in the parenthetical, but I didn't really think it was necessary. My mistake.

yeah sorry, I should of givin ya the benifit of the doubt :(

ah were they inverted? my computer just put straight lines so i can't tell jack shit :blushing:

also thanks.. "synonym" my bad too :lol:

[Manic Impressive]

it sounds like some simple bravado and light plans were manipulated and led by the informant and fbi handlers into something none of the parties involved seemed all that committed too but probably felt compelled to not back out of due to group dynamics. this doesn't make them idiots, it means the fbi is very good at this type of thing and has a long history of it- look at a number of the green scare cases, the recent 'plots' by islamic radicals etc. everyone of them is just some idiot? i don't think so. and by just railing off on them as 'fecking idiots' you are condemning the victims instead of the people who set them up, nice solidarity with some people in trouble. absolutely pathetic.
I agree that they were set up but they still put themselves in that position. It kind of goes without saying that the FBI are the cause of all of this but they still put the fake bomb on the bridge and tried to blow it up. The greens and islamic radicals are idiots as well. They have shit politics and are detrimental to genuine movements trying to fight against capitalism.

absolutely pathetic attempt at a flame at the end there :rolleyes:

[Martin Blank]

he was a nationalist not an anarchist

Princip considered himself an anarchist: "I am an adherent of the radical anarchist idea, which aims at destroying the present system through terrorism."

Also, the Black Hand was a Serbian nationalist military-political organization headed by General Dragutin Dimitrijevic, who was also the chief of military intelligence. They used Princip and the other Bosnian anarchists for their own ends -- i.e., to provoke a war against Austria-Hungary. The Black Hand was the inspiration for the Chetniks during World War II.

EDIT: I saw the Wikipedia entry, too. It's a really bad one, full of inaccuracies.

[Leftsolidarity]

I agree that they were set up but they still put themselves in that position. It kind of goes without saying that the FBI are the cause of all of this but they still put the fake bomb on the bridge and tried to blow it up. The greens and islamic radicals are idiots as well. They have shit politics and are detrimental to genuine movements trying to fight against capitalism.

absolutely pathetic attempt at a flame at the end there :rolleyes:

Are you some conservative asshole now or something? I know your posts don't have a great record of solidarity or anything like that but you're getting ridiculous.

Soon it will be the workers' fault for capitalism. They do go to work everyday now don't they? They put themselves in that position... :rolleyes:

[Luc]

Princip considered himself an anarchist: "I am an adherent of the radical anarchist idea, which aims at destroying the present system through terrorism."


edit: nvm your just saying what he thought, not sayin he was an anarchist :lol: my bad again the rest of this post is pretty irrelevant now

i think this pretty much disqualifies him as an anarchist because it's clear he has no idea what anarchism is it's like saying "I am a communist because I want everyone to be have the same things."

would you call that guy a communist?

the rest is interesting, for an Ideology with a colourless flag, Anarchism sure does have a colourful history

:blushing:

[Leftsolidarity]

i think this pretty much disqualifies him as an anarchist because it's clear he has no idea what anarchism is it's like saying "I am a communist because I want everyone to be have the same things."

would you call that guy a communist?

the rest is interesting, for an Ideology with a colourless flag, Anarchism sure does have a colourful history

:blushing:

I wouldn't say that means he wasn't an anarchist. That means he has a different view of tactics.

[Manic Impressive]

Are you some conservative asshole now or something? I know your posts don't have a great record of solidarity or anything like that but you're getting ridiculous.

Soon it will be the workers' fault for capitalism. They do go to work everyday now don't they? They put themselves in that position... :rolleyes:
Oh excuse me for not vehemently supporting some MAKE TOTAL DESTROY anarchists. The fact is they were trying to blow up a bridge potentially putting other workers lives at risk, and for what? what purpose were they actually doing it for?

[Luc]

I wouldn't say that means he wasn't an anarchist. That means he has a different view of tactics.

that not what I meant :blushing: I meant he thinks anarchism is just destroy this current order with terrorism rather than a moral socialist movement(for lack of a better word)

"Make Total Destroy!!!:cursing:!!!" rather than "Liberty in Equality:star:" so to speak

[bcbm]

I agree that they were set up but they still put themselves in that position. It kind of goes without saying that the FBI are the cause of all of this but they still put the fake bomb on the bridge and tried to blow it up.

again you are blaming the victims when what they need is solidarity not condemnation, though i suppose you believe 'idiots' don't deserve solidarity.


The greens and islamic radicals are idiots as well. They have shit politics and are detrimental to genuine movements trying to fight against capitalism.

uh that has nothing to do with the point being made.


absolutely pathetic attempt at a flame at the end there :rolleyes:

it wasn't a flame it was a description of my feeling toward your position not an insult.:rolleyes:

[Leftsolidarity]

Oh excuse me for not vehemently supporting some MAKE TOTAL DESTROY anarchists. The fact is they were trying to blow up a bridge potentially putting other workers lives at risk, and for what? what purpose were they actually doing it for?

Maybe because they were influenced by a group that has a long record of influencing people into this kind of shit? Holy shit man, I don't see how you can detach this incident with the rest of the history of the FBI.

No one is saying that blowing up a bridge is a good idea. We all agree that it's fucking stupid. We're just not all throwing the people under the bus like you because we can see that they are most likely victims of the FBI as well.

[Martin Blank]

i think this pretty much disqualifies him as an anarchist because it's clear he has no idea what anarchism is

At that time, though, the belief that terrorism (assassinations, bombings, sabotage, etc.) could bring down the system was much more common. Consider the People's Will group in Russia, which considered itself anarchist and regularly engaged in terrorist actions against the Romanov monarchy. There was also the self-described anarchist who assassinated U.S. President William McKinley.


it's like saying "I am a communist because I want everyone to be have the same things."

would you call that guy a communist?

It's an apples-and-oranges comparison, to be honest. In the early 20th century, there was a much larger section of the anarchist movement who believed in the use of individual terrorism, and they would have insisted that Princip was one of their own. Then again, at this time in history, the "Socialists" included everyone from Lenin to Mussolini, so take it all as you will.

[bcbm]

Oh excuse me for not vehemently supporting some MAKE TOTAL DESTROY anarchists. The fact is they were trying to blow up a bridge potentially putting other workers lives at risk, and for what? what purpose were they actually doing it for?

even the fbi stresses they took measures to not harm anyone. this has nothing to do with vehemently supporting them or not, but showing some basic solidarity and not taking the state at its word. their purpose, according to the affidavit, was to do economic damage which they viewed shutting down a major bridge into a business district would accomplish.

[Luc]

At that time, though, the belief that terrorism (assassinations, bombings, sabotage, etc.) could bring down the system was much more common. Consider the People's Will group in Russia, which considered itself anarchist and regularly engaged in terrorist actions against the Romanov monarchy. There was also the self-described anarchist who assassinated U.S. President William McKinley.



It's an apples-and-oranges comparison, to be honest. In the early 20th century, there was a much larger section of the anarchist movement who believed in the use of individual terrorism, and they would have insisted that Princip was one of their own. Then again, at this time in history, the "Socialists" included everyone from Lenin to Mussolini, so take it all as you will.

yeah your right

I dunno why I'm arguing.. it's late and I'm lonely :( gunna stop posting now :lol: unless LeftSolidarity relpies to my comment then that will be my final post

sorry for the derailing :laugh:

[Leftsolidarity]

yeah your right

I dunno why I'm arguing.. it's late and I'm lonely :( gunna stop posting now :lol: unless LeftSolidarity relpies to my comment then that will be my final post

sorry for the derailing :laugh:

I think our conversation was wrapped up pretty good. Goodnight Grandin.


Now back to the thread......

[Manic Impressive]

Maybe because they were influenced by a group that has a long record of influencing people into this kind of shit? Holy shit man, I don't see how you can detach this incident with the rest of the history of the FBI.
I'm not at all, I think you're really misunderstanding my position. I'm saying the FBI are guilty of setting them up. But I would hope that if anyone approached you trying to sell you some explosives you're answer would be "Fuck no! Are you a cop?". For falling for the FBI's trap they are fecking idiots.


No one is saying that blowing up a bridge is a good idea. We all agree that it's fucking stupid. We're just not all throwing the people under the bus like you because we can see that they are most likely victims of the FBI as well.
I'm not 'throwing anyone under the bus'. My position is neither one of condemnation nor condoning their actions.

even the fbi stresses they took measures to not harm anyone. this has nothing to do with vehemently supporting them or not, but showing some basic solidarity and not taking the state at its word. their purpose, according to the affidavit, was to do economic damage which they viewed shutting down a major bridge into a business district would accomplish.
Yeah I read that, they discussed the possibility of using smoke bombs to make sure that the bridge was empty. But I didn't read that they actually did this or took any measures to ensure the safety of other workers. They had the right intentions, in trying not to harm workers but they still went along with the plan.
And doing economic damage does what exactly? How does blowing up a bridge do anything but get you put in jail, absolutely pointless.

This is the other reason they are fecking idiots

[bcbm]

nobody is saying the action was absolutely brilliant but at this point we should be attacking the fbi not its victims especially given the timing and the situation in this country with anarchists, occupy, etc. 'what a bunch of morons lol!' isn't helpful to anyone.

[TrotskistMarx]

BfGpueFm9dk


Good video about the fake-anarchists funded by US government as a pretext to destroy the OWS protests, and leftist and anti-war movements, that are a potential threat to the US Imperialist wars in Afhganistan, Pakistan, against Venezuela, etc.

Dear friends, the USA government is worried, it is alarmed, it is worried that most and most people in USA are becoming revolutionaries, anti-US government. From my own point of view this is a hardcore false-flag dirty trick of our wonderful lying US government. How nice the US government is, and how dumb really. The US government thinks that americans are dumb. If the US government would really love to control people without people waking up. The US government would have to ban internet connections, books, TV stations, newspapers and all kinds of information. That's the only that US government would rule the US population without the US population waking up to dirty tricks like this one that they have been doing for so long.

Man, what a bunch of pathetic crooked liars are the people of the US government. Here is a great article by Kurt Nimmo about this false-flag event !!

FBI Arrests “Anarchists” in Cleveland Bomb Plot

Kurt Nimmo
Infowars.com
May 1, 2012
Source: http://www.infowars.com/fbi-arrests-anarchists-in-cleveland-bomb-plot/

Editor’s note: Additional information in the case claims the group also planned to bomb the Federal Reserve bank in downtown Cleveland. No details yet if this idea came from the “anarchists” or their FBI inserted provocateur.

Authorities in Cleveland, Ohio, have arrested five self described anarchists in an alleged plot to blow up the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad Brecksville Station and a bridge by remote detonation using C-4 plastic explosives.
Anarchists supposedly plotted to blow up this bridge in Ohio.

Fox News reports that the explosive devices to be used in the plot were inoperable and controlled by an “undercover FBI employee,” according to sources close to the investigation. Both the FBI and the federal Joint Terrorism Task Force are involved in the investigation.

Infowars.com reported last year that virtually all terror plots in the United States are organized by the FBI. A report published by Mother Jones and the Investigative Reporting Program at the University of California-Berkley revealed the FBI recruits patsies and encourages them to engage in terror plots.

Police have routinely used “anarchists” to discredit activists and use their property damage antics as an excuse to attack peaceful demonstrators.

The Cleveland plot follows news on Monday that New York may Michael Bloomberg and six banks in Manhattan received envelopes containing white powder. Five of them were branches of Wells Fargo and one was the Park Avenue headquarters of JPMorgan Chase, according to the New York Times.
“This is a reminder that you are not in control. Just in case you needed some incentive to stop working. We have a little surprise for you. Think fast,” a letter sent to the banks stated. “Happy May Day.”

It didn’t take long for journalists to find the Facebook pages of the suspects. The Cleveland Scene posted screen captures of several of the purported “anarchists” arrested by the government. Most claim to be affiliated with the Occupy movement in Cleveland.

Suspect Brandon Baxter’s (alleged) Facebook profile lists his political views as “anarcho-communist” and #OccupyCleveland as his employment.
OWS supporters should take note. The government is attempting to portray the movement as violent and terrorist. It is doing this because efforts by the establishment to domesticate the movement have largely failed.

Characterizing the movement as terrorist is crucial now that Occupy has announced its resurgence following efforts by New York to run them out of town in November and a concerted effort by the DHS and police around the country to intimidate and harass the movement.

The FBI “sting” in Cleveland follows a pattern established in the 1960s by the FBI. Under COINTELPRO, the government not only attempted to “neutralize” the civil rights and antiwar movements, but created its more radical and violent strains. This fact was underscored when it was revealed that supposed white supremacist Hal Tuner was a prized national security asset.

The latest effort by the government to destroy OWS follows a pattern established following the attacks of September 11, 2001. On numerous occasions, FBI agents provocateurs recruited witless Muslims to participate in orchestrated terrorist plots that were designed to fail and provide the government with propaganda fodder.

This is what the establishment is now doing to the OWS movement. It is now attempting to portray the OWS as a dangerous organization that harbors violent anarchists.

Anarchism – real anarchism, not the clownish government variety – is incompatible with the stated socialist goals of the OWS movement.

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What a bunch of fucking dipshits.

Here is a link. http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/anarchists-plotted-blow-cleveland-bridge-fbi/story?id=16252571#.T6Ak0at8A0c

Pretty sure that blowing up bridges has nothing to do with anarchism. How is this supposed to bring people on to your side?

[No_Leaders]

Oh joy some dipshits had to go out and give us anarchists a bad name. Great!! now i gotta tell people i'm no longer an anarchist, but a realist. sighh.

Seriously though these guys are tools, how the fuck would any of that further workers emancipation, or bring capitalism to a screeching halt, or end centuries of patriarchy and sexism, bring an end to borders and nations, smash racism, and discrimination? And how in the fuck would their wacky ideas bring people over to radical leftist ideas?

Idiots.

[TrotskistMarx]

However I just wanna say that the human body, and all other many living species of this world behave according to the motto "An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth". Doing violence, being violent against a person, an organization, a government or any institution that has done violence against us, is completely ok, normal and not a crime at all.

Take away away food from a hungry Pitbull dog, or doberman, and those dogs will rationally attack you. In fact Dostoyesky claimed that the criminals of the prisions of Russia were a lot better people, had more nobility of soul than non-criminals. The thing is that the natural passions like anger, violence, envy, hatred, and other normal rational passions that the human body has have been complete erased, controlled, maimed for many centuries by the Catholic Church and many other denominations, by oligarchic governments, by the educational system, and by the mainstream media.

I said in another post that maybe these anarchists were fake-anarchists payed by the US government. However they could've been real anarchists angry at the US government, and they just followed their rational and natural instincts of paying back the US government and capitalist system with what US government and capitalist class has been doing to us for many decades. Which is rape, murder and violence. So according to "An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth". All americans or at least those americans that are not economically and politically benefitting from the US oligarchic political system should follow their natural instincts of vengeance: That passion and instinct labeled by the ancient greek philosopher Homer as sweeter than Honey.

So remember: Don't get mad, get even !! and like Zack de La Rocha said: "Anger is a gift" !!

[names_r_hard]

Where would the US be without the FBI protecting it from FBI plots?

[Manic Impressive]

nobody is saying the action was absolutely brilliant but at this point we should be attacking the fbi not its victims especially given the timing and the situation in this country with anarchists, occupy, etc. 'what a bunch of morons lol!' isn't helpful to anyone.
I don't think it's a matter of either or you can do both. You can say that what they did was fucking stupid but the reasons for what they did are understandable and absolve them of guilt. From a revolutionary socialist perspective (which we all are) they are fucking idiots but from a pissed off workers perspective (which we all are) their actions are understandable. I believe the correct position to have is not to show solidarity with their actions and call them anarchists but to explain why as pissed off workers they would feel the need to do something like that.

It's pretty much the same as this
http://www.revleft.com/vb/hgv-company-and-t170844/index.html

[coda]

Entrapment is 9/10ths of the law!

[coda]

<<how do people like this lately always pick out the fbi informer to work with? Im hoping none of them had revleft accounts.>>

It's actually pretty common for the FBI to infiltrate especially those groups who are less structured in organization-- but they're known to infiltrate Left political parties too. And don't think they're gonna come calling in their uniforms.. they adopt the presence and background of the typical leftist group they are infiltrating. It can never be stressed enough to "Watch Your Back".

[coda]

that would be "Watch your back"' online and off.. but not to the point of paranoia or feeling safer not to get involved with Left politics. It is completely legal (US) to protest and organize your opposition against the current government...

edits: an anarchist Narc deterrent: http://snitchwire.blogspot.com/

[No_Leaders]

Yeah it's like the Eric McDavid sitchy all over again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_McDavid

[bcbm]

Oh joy some dipshits had to go out and give us anarchists a bad name. Great!!

yeah anarchists were viewed as a polite company of civilized gentleman before these guys mucked it all up. give me a fucking break.


now i gotta tell people i'm no longer an anarchist, but a realist. sighh. don't be a baby


Seriously though these guys are tools, how the fuck would any of that further workers emancipation, or bring capitalism to a screeching halt, or end centuries of patriarchy and sexism, bring an end to borders and nations, smash racism, and discrimination?how come whenever this sort of thing happens the criteria for the action is 'will it end capitalism immediately: yes [] no []?' their thinking was that it would cause economic damage to the business district near the bridge. read the affidavit and you will get a nice course in how bravado and minor plans can be manipulated into this sort of shit, as well as understand what was going on in their heads. get the facts before you run your mouth.


And how in the fuck would their wacky ideas bring people over to radical leftist ideas?while i don't think their goal was recruitment, those these kinds of things do tend to have a 'no press is bad press' end result.


Idiots.nice stand with comrades being fucked by the fbi.


I don't think it's a matter of either or you can do both. You can say that what they did was fucking stupid but the reasons for what they did are understandable and absolve them of guilt. From a revolutionary socialist perspective (which we all are) they are fucking idiots but from a pissed off workers perspective (which we all are) their actions are understandable. I believe the correct position to have is not to show solidarity with their actions and call them anarchists but to explain why as pissed off workers they would feel the need to do something like that.

well so far i haven't seen much understand and a great deal of 'what a bunch of fucking idiots,' and trying to distance them from the label they claim for themselves is opportunistic and denies them any agency in the matter. they clearly wanted to do some kind of action and anarchists do that all the time but were manipulated by the fbi as part of their bs anti-terrorism operations. i could understand being like 'this isn't a very smart action but clearly this was instigated and manipulated by the fbi and we should support these cats' but i haven't seen much of anything like that.


It's pretty much the same as this
http://www.revleft.com/vb/hgv-compan...844/index.html (http://www.revleft.com/vb/hgv-company-and-t170844/index.html)not really

[TrotskistMarx]

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Watch this video by Joe Bageant about the reactionary behaviour of the middle classes

You are right, you know animals like dogs, pittbulls, dobermans and even other types of animals react faster than humans if they see themselves threatened. Or for example many mother dogs protect their own puppies very good. Not humans, specially many humans in this world who have been totally mind-controlled, zombified and turned into sedated drones by status quo churches, the educational system and the media.

What I am trying to state is that humans like dogs are indeed supposed to react with violence, with anger with rage, if they have been violated and harassed. But since most like I said in this world are sedated drones, sedated zombies, actions like those anarchists sound like crimes. That's why Dostoyesky said that the criminals of the prisons of Russia had more will power, more manhood, more nobility of soul, more worth than non-criminals.

And even the sociologist Emil Durkheim in one of his writtings said that crime leads to social changes. An excess of peace in a society. Like for example in many Republican Party Baptist Church and Catholic Church evangelical states have low levels of crime, because its populations are a lot more conformists and welcome pain, poverty and suffering into their lives than in more revolutionary progressive states like California, NY etc.

Besides according to the song "Intolerance" by Tool, nobody in this world is inocent, we are all immoral and evil. So if the state is evil, why can't leftists be evil !!

.


.



I don't think it's a matter of either or you can do both. You can say that what they did was fucking stupid but the reasons for what they did are understandable and absolve them of guilt. From a revolutionary socialist perspective (which we all are) they are fucking idiots but from a pissed off workers perspective (which we all are) their actions are understandable. I believe the correct position to have is not to show solidarity with their actions and call them anarchists but to explain why as pissed off workers they would feel the need to do something like that.

It's pretty much the same as this
http://www.revleft.com/vb/hgv-company-and-t170844/index.html

[Krano]

Alex Jones hasn't talked about this being a false flag operation at all, it seems that only when the Right-Wing does terrorism that it's a plot by the CIA. He has already defended Timothy Mcveight,Ted Kaczynski,Anders Breivik and other Right-Wing terrorists.

[An archist]

Remember kids, if someone tries to convince you to blow up things, ... don't do it.

[KurtFF8]

I think its very likely there's a police provocateur behind this. It was released just in time to hit the corporate evening TV news of the May Day demos. The media needs some violence and dark hints of terrorism to discredit any mass unrest against their bleak, dying system.

I'm pretty sure that the articles mention that an informant was heavily involved. This is usually the case in these situations: the informant will be the "most militant" and push things towards violence to get the rest in jail.