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Blanquist
30th April 2012, 16:43
IN LABOUR camps across its remote northern reaches, the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea detains an estimated 150,000-200,000 political prisoners. The regime claims to hold precisely none. Or rather, in the formulation of the late Kim Jong Il, punishing the enemies of the state protects the North Korean peoples human rights.

The gulags captives are not told of their crimes, though torture usually produces a confessionwhich might admit to defacing an image of the Great Leader or listening to a foreign broadcast. There is no defence, trial, judge or sentence, though most inmates remain in the camps for life, unless they escape. They are victims of forced disappearances, in that neighbours, colleagues and distant family members know nothing about the fate of those who vanish. Inmates are held incommunicado, without visits, food parcels, letters or radio. Chronically malnourished, they work in mines, quarries and logging camps, with one rest-day a month. Infractions of camp rules, such as stealing food meant for livestock, damaging equipment or having unauthorised sexual liaisons are punished with beatings and torture. Guards rape women prisoners, leading to forced abortions for the pregnant, or infanticide. Inmates are under pressure to snitch. Executions are routineand fellow prisoners must often watch (see article).

Consider the case of Shin Dong-hyuk, the subject of a new book (Escape from Camp 14). He was born of model prisoner parents in Camp 14, Kaechon in 1982 and spent his first 22 years inside. As punishment for dropping a sewing machine, his finger was cut off. He was also suspended over a fire, and a hook was thrust through his belly, to make him confess to joining an escape supposedly being planned by his mother and brother. He was then made to witness their executions.

Whole families are incarcerated at a time. Kim Il Sung, the states founding ruler, declared that: The seed of factionalists or enemies of class, whoever they are, must be eliminated through three generations. Just as guilt was heritable under the feudal Chosun dynasty, so the Kim regime divides the population into hereditary classes of the loyal, wavering and hostile. The gulag is filled with the third kind, people perceived to be Christian, or from the wrong background, or thought to have insulted the honour of the Kim dynasty.

The North Korean gulag has persisted for twice as long as its Soviet counterpart did. Yet the world looks away. The United States expends its diplomatic energies in negotiations over the regimes tinpot nuclear and missile programme, with little to show for the effort. South Korean brethren have other things on their mindsthe political left wants better relations with the North, while others just wish it was not there. As for China, an ally, it forcibly repatriates North Koreans who have fled across the border, even though they face execution.

Rarely does the gulag intrude. Perhaps the scale of the atrocity numbs moral outrage. Certainly it is easier to lampoon the regime as ruled by extraterrestrial freaks than to grapple with the suffering it inflicts (The Economist is guilty). Yet murder, enslavement, forcible population transfers, torture, rape: North Korea commits nearly every atrocity that counts as a crime against humanity.

Break with the inheritance

A world that places any value on the idea of universal human rights should no longer overlook North Koreas enormities. China should end its shameful forced repatriation of North Koreans and allow the Red Cross and the UN High Commissioner for Refugees into border areas. It should also cease sheltering the Kims at the UN, which should launch a commission of inquiry. America and South Korea, especially, must not hide behind nuclear diplomacy, but press harder on human rights. On April 15th the states young new ruler, Kim Jong Un, marked the centenary of his grandfathers birth. This third-generation seed of the Kim dictatorship must now be confronted with his own murderous inheritancea blot on humanity.

http://www.economist.com/node/21553029

NK's gulag is rarely brought up around here, most talk seems to be laughing at the Kim's or arguing if it's a socialist state.

Thoughts?

Deicide
30th April 2012, 17:00
Thoughts?

Doesn't exist.

or ''LIES'' AND ''SLANDERS'' as Comrade Omsk would say.

bad ideas actualised by alcohol
30th April 2012, 17:09
I call bullshit.

Offbeat
30th April 2012, 17:25
It contradicts my ideas, therefore it doesn't exist.

Sperm-Doll Setsuna
30th April 2012, 17:41
You can't just call any labour camp GULAG, though; it's better to call it by its name, that is, labour camp. That aside, I don't think there's that much dispute about the existence of such, and the inmate population seems from most sources to be stable at 150-200,000 for the last 20-30 years at least, and I can't really remember even those that defend DPRK suggest that there are none-- but probably there are, but I don't think they are particularly prominent on this site, or elsewhere.

I don't like the typical drivel of the article though, the human-rights mumbojumbo and calling for foreign intervention (not surprising from the economist, I guess; not to imply that I agree with the policies of the DPRK government or the usage of these labour camps) though. Ugh, hate this uppity liberal attitude towards DPRK like civilised parents vivisecting an obstinate child.

Omsk
30th April 2012, 18:21
Doesn't exist.

or ''LIES'' AND ''SLANDERS'' as Comrade Omsk would say.
When did i mention the words: "Lies" or "Slander" in the context of the DPRK? Where did i 'defend' their regime or the actions of the their regime? Nowhere. What you are doing now,is slander.And i politely ask you to stop mentioning me in unrelated threads as a part of your jokes,or whatever you spend your time on.

TheGodlessUtopian
30th April 2012, 18:29
Seems very hyperbolic to be honest. Doesn't mean that I don't think forced labor camps actually exist but just some of the things are a bit overblown for dramatic effect on impressionable bourgeois oriented readers.

Omsk
30th April 2012, 18:31
Deicide,must i also note that there are no 'defenders' of the DPRK regime on this board,and those who did defend the DPRK,were usually regarded as revisionists by the ML's?

names_r_hard
1st May 2012, 12:32
Seems very hyperbolic to be honest. Doesn't mean that I don't think forced labor camps actually exist but just some of the things are a bit overblown for dramatic effect on impressionable bourgeois oriented readers.

It's pretty arrogant to dismiss the experiences of Shin Dong-hyuk as hyperbole without even reading them. Go look them up.

China studen
1st May 2012, 20:43
Fuck you. Imperialist lackeys your IQ is limited to fabricate these low-level rumors?

TheGodlessUtopian
1st May 2012, 20:44
It's pretty arrogant to dismiss the experiences of Shin Dong-hyuk as hyperbole without even reading them. Go look them up.

Re-read my comment, I never dismissed them but simply called them inflated.

TheGodlessUtopian
1st May 2012, 20:45
Fuck you. Imperialist lackeys your IQ is limited to fabricate these low-level rumors?

Verbal warning for flaming.

Os Cangaceiros
1st May 2012, 21:10
I can't help but think that someday the DPRK government will be looked at by the left in the same way that the Khmer Rouge is looked at today.

China studen
1st May 2012, 21:29
I can't help but think that someday the DPRK government will be looked at by the left in the same way that the Khmer Rouge is looked at today.


The imperialists every day talking about the "crimes" of the Communist Party of Kampuchea.
At the same time, the imperialists never to face the crimes of the imperialist slaughter in Cambodia.
Communist Party of Kampuchea to fight aggression, defend the people. Imperialist propaganda machine is deliberately shielding of these contributions of the Communist Party of Kampuchea.

China studen
1st May 2012, 21:48
Verbal warning for flaming.

1, Slander others, is already a "Prejudiced Language". Spreading rumors have been irregularities.You should be aware of. Law of any country will not allow disinformation to demonize others.

2,You as an administrator, connivance or favoritism rumors spread of slander others, have been irregularities.

3, If there is a dictator. These dictators that the rumors, slander other people can tolerate. Counterattack rumor can not be tolerated. Well, I can only say that fully reflect the reality of Western society - the people only form of freedom, there is no real freedom. Because the ruler of a double standard.

Vyacheslav Brolotov
1st May 2012, 22:27
The imperialists every day talking about the "crimes" of the Communist Party of Kampuchea.
At the same time, the imperialists never to face the crimes of the imperialist slaughter in Cambodia.
Communist Party of Kampuchea to fight aggression, defend the people. Imperialist propaganda machine is deliberately shielding of these contributions of the Communist Party of Kampuchea.

What are you talking about? The Khmer Rouge was the lapdog of the imperialist west. When Vietnam invaded Cambodia and established the People's Republic of Cambodia, guess who made sure that the Khmer Rouge kept their seat in the United Nations..... The United States.

moulinrouge
1st May 2012, 22:45
A man turned a nation into a concentration camp and people are arguing about if he was an imperialist or not.

TheGodlessUtopian
1st May 2012, 22:47
What are you talking about? The Khmer Rouge was the lapdog of the imperialist west. When Vietnam invaded Cambodia and established the People's Republic of Cambodia, guess who made sure that the Khmer Rouge kept their seat in the United Nations..... The United States.

An interesting move especially after it was the U.S which directed Vietnam's invasion.

Os Cangaceiros
1st May 2012, 23:02
The imperialists every day talking about the "crimes" of the Communist Party of Kampuchea.
At the same time, the imperialists never to face the crimes of the imperialist slaughter in Cambodia.
Communist Party of Kampuchea to fight aggression, defend the people. Imperialist propaganda machine is deliberately shielding of these contributions of the Communist Party of Kampuchea.

Hey, you want to defend a regime responsible for ethnic cleansing/genocide, be my guest. Doesn't make you look good, though.

I don't mean genocide in the sense that simply a lot of people were killed, either...I mean it in the sense that specific segments of the population were targeted for death simply because of their ethnicity and religion. Supporting a regime culpable in those sorts of crimes should be a bannable offense.

Delenda Carthago
1st May 2012, 23:19
Why does NK bother you so much?

Blanquist
1st May 2012, 23:30
Why does NK bother you so much?

The same can be asked of anything..

Omsk
1st May 2012, 23:32
Deicide i am still waiting for an answer regarding your slander. (Trying to portray me as a defender of the DPRK.)

Vyacheslav Brolotov
1st May 2012, 23:39
Deicide i am still waiting for an answer regarding your slander. (Trying to portray me as a defender of the DPRK.)

Ignore the flamer, he's gonna drive you crazy. What, do you think he hasn't done the same thing to me or any other Marxist-Leninist?

Raúl Duke
1st May 2012, 23:43
I think in general people on this site don't usually want to talk about labor camps in NK...or in any of the state socialist regimes.
Doesn't mean we don't know that they exist; although it's hard to get any clear info because of how closed the DPRK is.
I even heard stories that in Russia there are NK labor camps (!) or some such; although maybe I heard wrong or maybe they're lies.

Does Cuba have labor camps?


The imperialists every day talking about the "crimes" of the Communist Party of Kampuchea.
At the same time, the imperialists never to face the crimes of the imperialist slaughter in Cambodia.

Are you referring to the US bombing campaign?
Not to be condoning such an imperialist action, but in relative terms the Khmer Rouge probably caused more human deaths and shenanigans ("abandon the cities!") than the bombing did. Also, the Vietnamese didn't think the Khmer Rouge were real socialists anyway (thus invading them, while the Khmer Rouge got some support from the US, at least in the UN; so the Khmer Rouge might as well be Chinese-US lackeys).

Delenda Carthago
2nd May 2012, 00:54
The same can be asked of anything..
No, it doesnt. NK does not affect you in no way. Its a small, isolated State that is being used by you for entertaintment reasons. Something that might be OK if this forum was your mailing list that you use with your homies, but its not. And by slandering NK and especially Cuba all the time, I think that you bring noise to our communication, something I dont appreciate to be honest.

Sir Comradical
2nd May 2012, 13:57
Quite an unbiased and impartial source you got there - The Economist.

Zealot
2nd May 2012, 14:25
What's wrong with labour camps

Blanquist
2nd May 2012, 14:30
Quite an unbiased and impartial source you got there - The Economist.

There's no such thing as 'unbiased and impartial' sources.

China studen
2nd May 2012, 19:14
What are you talking about? The Khmer Rouge was the lapdog of the imperialist west. When Vietnam invaded Cambodia and established the People's Republic of Cambodia, guess who made sure that the Khmer Rouge kept their seat in the United Nations..... The United States.


What are you talking about? Cambodian Communist Party leadership all walks of Cambodia to fight the invasion of U.S. imperialism, to fight Lang promise a puppet regime. You said: "The Khmer Rouge was the lapdog of the imperialist west. "Lang Novo who pug? U.S. imperialism in the United Nations did a thing can be inferred that the Communist Party of Kampuchea is the lapdog of imperialism?

Then the hypothesis: the bully had a fight with your neighbor. Subsequently, the bully had to break into your house. You and him fight. You put him away. Later, your neighbor broke into your house, you and the neighbors fighting. This time, bully favoritism for their own interests. This can prove that you are the bully's lapdog? It was a magical logic!

I have heard many Western countries would "logic" as a basic course. So, in my impression, many people in the West are strong logical ability. But to see your performance, I highly doubt it.

Bostana
2nd May 2012, 19:17
Since when did the people here on Revleft believe in what the American Media says?

China studen
2nd May 2012, 19:19
Hey, you want to defend a regime responsible for ethnic cleansing/genocide, be my guest. Doesn't make you look good, though.

I don't mean genocide in the sense that simply a lot of people were killed, either...I mean it in the sense that specific segments of the population were targeted for death simply because of their ethnicity and religion. Supporting a regime culpable in those sorts of crimes should be a bannable offense.

Hey, you want to defend a regime responsible for ethnic cleansing/genocide of imperialists, be my guest. Doesn't make you look good, though.

I don't mean genocide in the sense that simply a lot of people were killed, either...I mean it in the sense that specific segments of the population were targeted for death simply because of their ethnicity and religion.Such as imperialism killed by Cambodian civilians or revolutionaries do not believe in the ideology of imperialism. Another example is the long ago, the U.S. military in Afghanistan fascist massacre.

Bostana
2nd May 2012, 19:23
China Studen has a point.

Everyone seems to look the other way when the KMT killed the Chinese people for being openly Communist, and/or being a communist sympathizer.

China studen
2nd May 2012, 19:27
Since when did the people here on Revleft believe in what the American Media says?

It should be said here is true has been. I came here in 2006. After intermittent times. It seems that in 2009 a bit better. Has now reverted to the original. Even the American people to launch the occupation movement. Here there are so many idiots.