Leftists should organize their own militias

[Agent provocateur]

I never hear of anyone but the Black Panthers and the Black Muslims organize leftist militias back in the 60s. All I hear nowadays are these southern rednecks training for the racist Turner Diaries "day of doom" to arrive. What I would give for the day to arrive when leftists will have their own militia army and since it is not illegal why not? The Second amendment provides for right-wingers to have their shit why don't I hear of leftists having their own militia? (Or have they and I'm just ignorant. Please fill me in.) Leftists should not overtly declare their militia to be intent on overthrowing the government by violence. Leftists should just say that they are just training "to protect themselves" against right-wing violence and racist lynchings, etc.

[truthaddict11]

i think militias are a bad idea. you will get nothing but a bad rep from the press and end up being infiltrated by scabs from the FBI and CIA as the Black Panthers and American Indian Movement were and end up dead or in prison. If you really feel the need to protect yourself i would suggest investing in a gun. several leftist groups have used gun ownership as a means to protect themselves from cops, and union busters.

[@[email protected]@]

GREAT! :D
Your this idea is very good. Certainly, the bourgeoisie government is not a fool, they can obstruct in every possible way. As a result of majority person not urgent revolution request, therefore, organizes such organization is can have major difficultly very. Therefore, must camouflage ours real goal. This need wisdom and guts. If, you had thought, that does. Takes care! Wishes you to be able to obtain successfully. :lol:
You will be another CHE.
The people must Win!

[@[email protected]@]

I said a each one person's viewpoint again. I thought organizes the military equipment and the legal struggle must unify. I oppose any dauntless sacrifice. Must learn ingeniously to hide oneself. I feel proud for yours courage.
Takes care!
The Revolution must Win!
VIVA CHE!

[Se7en]

Unfortunately, an armed uprising of the working class with shotguns and pistols really stands no chance against our military...and the military machine is so closely intertwined with big business that I can't see it letting a bunch of Socialists take over the country.

[Agent provocateur]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2003, 08:50 PM
i think militias are a bad idea. you will get nothing but a bad rep from the press and end up being infiltrated by scabs from the FBI and CIA as the Black Panthers and American Indian Movement were and end up dead or in prison. If you really feel the need to protect yourself i would suggest investing in a gun. several leftist groups have used gun ownership as a means to protect themselves from cops, and union busters.
It's perfectly legal to organize a militia. The 2nd amendment guarantees it.

Second amendment to the U.S. constitution.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

[DEPAVER]

There is a long history of militias in the United States, dating to the Revolutionary War period; however, militias have never been successful in the U.S. and truthfully, I see no reason for forming militias under the current system. Perhaps they'd be an option in a anarchistic, truly democratic society, but they'd do little more than attract the unnecessary attention of a militarized police force looking for any excuse to try out their new automatic toys.

There is a common myth in some circles, much admired and repeated by the fashion conscious "Black Bloc" set, that the way to achieve an anarchist or truly democratic society is to march shoulder-to-shoulder against the state, smash their windows with an Official Anarchist Brick (TR) and force them, through the sheer logic of oft-repeated historical phrases, to give up their capitalist ways and never darken the doorsteps of Wall Street again.

Attacking a centralized authority with the intent of toppling its oppressive regime, even if successful, would only create a power vacuum at the top of a hierarchical, centralized, coercive structure that would still
be in place. Are we expected to gather in the reins of the galloping steed and order it to stop and reverse direction? Are we to take command of these institutions and order everyone to stop being coercive and capitalistic? Are we to replace their illegitimate authority with our legitimate authority?

We cannot cut off the head of the state and expect the body to mend its ways and follow the head that we put in its place. In order to build a new society, we must build a body that needs no head, that grows from itself,that self-generates and therefore needs no direction from a centralized authority. When all citizens are functioning members of a true democracy, the need for a centralized state and its concentrate of wealth and power, disappears.

Making the state irrelevant is a much more subtle process that requires generational commitment and a higher level of political and economic awareness. In other words, grow a parallel society , from the ground up, in the image you prefer. While marching in the streets is fun and a grand way to build solidarity, it is only the start to the hard work of building a new society.

[Hampton]

I'd be wary of ever starting a group ala the BPP advocating the use of guns for self defense, the second you start gaining real influence you'd either be in jail or dead like truthaddict noted before. But I'm not sure that means that people shouldn't try to change the system. Use what they did in the past, learn from it, and make more progress they did by being smarter and more aware of what the conquences of the actions would be, knowing that the system will kill you the moment it gets the chance.

[/ramble]

[redstar2000]

...much admired and repeated by the fashion conscious "Black Bloc" set...

That's a misconception, as I understand matters. The "black blocs"--sometimes lately referred to as the "padded blocs"--were formed to engage in counter-violence after police have already attacked the non-violent contingents. On occasion they have been able to successfully divert police attention away from non-violent demonstrators, thus saving many from arrest and police brutality.

I do think it likely that they will soon have to stop dressing in black...it invites immediate police attack.

As to militias, my opinions are mixed. If a group of serious lefties were to quietly form a "shooting club" with legal, registered firearms...and train themselves in the use and proper maintenance of small arms, I see nothing wrong with that at all.

What always concerns me when people bring this kind of thing up is that the idea of weaponry is really a kind of psychological substitute for "manhood"...we're going to strut around in public with our guns to show the government and the public that "we're real men and not to be fucked with".

Such bravado is a guarantee that you will be "fucked with" on a deadly scale.

My suggestion: do what you think is appropriate and keep your damn mouth shut about it.

The penalty for boasting is death.

http://anarchist-action.org/forums/images/smiles/redstar.gif

The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/)
A site about communist ideas

[RedCeltic]

I never hear of anyone but the Black Panthers and the Black Muslims organize leftist militias back in the 60s.

You forgot about the Weather Underground. Well not exactly a "militia" but they had a pretty good idea... and were pretty sucsessful. They blew up buildings all over the United States, without ever actually killing anyone. They were active for some years too. The FBI was never able to catch them, some eventually turned themselves in.

There was a reacent doccumentery made on the weather underground where a woman I know and have met personally here in Albany said she still believes in a revolution, and when asked if she has any regrets, she said no.. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. hehehe....I'm sure the FBI is watching her though. :unsure:

[Comrade Ceausescu]

I never hear of anyone but the Black Panthers and the Black Muslims organize leftist militias back in the 60s.

First off,I love the Black Panthers,but the Black Muslims were not progressive at all.They are the black version of the KKK.They preach hate and their organazation,like the kkk should be outlawed.Their leader in the 60's,was a disgusting child molester who should've been killed.He was responsible for the death of the great Malcom X.



. All I hear nowadays are these southern rednecks training for the racist Turner Diaries "day of doom" to arrive. What I would give for the day to arrive when leftists will have their own militia army and since it is not illegal why not? The Second amendment provides for right-wingers to have their shit why don't I hear of leftists having their own militia? (Or have they and I'm just ignorant. Please fill me in.) Leftists should not overtly declare their militia to be intent on overthrowing the government by violence. Leftists should just say that they are just training "to protect themselves" against right-wing violence and racist lynchings, etc.


I don&#39;t neccasserily think that it is a bad idea to organize a militia,but get ready for high quality harrassment,and survelence.The FBI keeps files on people who even join the Cpusa,which is anti-armed uprising <_< .Now think about that,and now think about what they will do to you if you organize a militia.Personally,I think a small attempt should be made to start an underground revolution,"Fight Club" style :D

[gawkygeek]

the fight club style is certainly an effective method, but its highly impracticle, there are way too many ppl who would never cooperate on such a grand scale.

as for an armed militia, thats probably not a great idea, people who are armed often get illusions of power and believe they are much more powerful than they really are, they therefore rush and jump to a revolution too soon and end up causing a huge scare and a huge wave of people against anything remotely similar to the group&#39;s ideas. even if the arms were never used, the presence of an armed militia intimidates people, and the group will lose support quickly

[communistbutter]

arming yourself with guns? why? you suspecting thousands of rednecks to come pouring out of the mid west to kill every single anti-american government person in a single strike?
im sorry but this is just silly....if our only way to solve things is by shooting others..were not doing much better then cavemen....we might as well give up on gonverment ..and go back into the past...
and trying to set up a militia to protect against the military? what do you plan to use ..... tomahawk missiles?...thats even sillier.......if a small militia tried to oppose such a huge and technologically advanced army ..such as the USA one....theyd get blown into little peices and scattered across the four corners of the earth.....
instead i sugest give up guns completely... try and do it without killing so many people...try peaceful protests and organized groups to help try and explain to people what the revolution is really about....

as for the "black blocs" theyre a contraversal topic...some may say thyere just a bunch of silly people who go around smashing things becuase they dont like theyre government and calling it anarchy....
others may describe it as redstar2000 did....
I think it all depends on the people in the bloc itself....what they want...and why....making some stereotype about them good or bad...just does nothing



(on a side note: DEPAVER i really enjoy reading your posts..i find them quite well thought out and intriguing...)

[Agent provocateur]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2003, 08:46 AM
arming yourself with guns? why? you suspecting thousands of rednecks to come pouring out of the mid west to kill every single anti-american government person in a single strike?
im sorry but this is just silly....if our only way to solve things is by shooting others..were not doing much better then cavemen....we might as well give up on gonverment ..and go back into the past...
and trying to set up a militia to protect against the military? what do you plan to use ..... tomahawk missiles?...thats even sillier.......if a small militia tried to oppose such a huge and technologically advanced army ..such as the USA one....theyd get blown into little peices and scattered across the four corners of the earth.....
instead i sugest give up guns completely... try and do it without killing so many people...try peaceful protests and organized groups to help try and explain to people what the revolution is really about....

as for the "black blocs" theyre a contraversal topic...some may say thyere just a bunch of silly people who go around smashing things becuase they dont like theyre government and calling it anarchy....
others may describe it as redstar2000 did....
I think it all depends on the people in the bloc itself....what they want...and why....making some stereotype about them good or bad...just does nothing



(on a side note: DEPAVER i really enjoy reading your posts..i find them quite well thought out and intriguing...)
Looks like you want us to stop and yield
And enter the idyllic Land of Strawberry Fields

A man/woman has to be far gone in Utopian speculations to seriously doubt that the Revolution can be won with the force of arms and extreme violence.
All of history has up to this time proved that capitalist regimes will not yield peacefully to those fighting for their freedoms. On the other hand, the former Communist bloc yielded to the capitalists without hardly a struggle during those dark days of 1989-1991.

[Soviet power supreme]

I remember Marx writed about ARMED revolution.How the fuck do you think that workers will ever win if they dont have weapons?No matter how many workers there are they will always lose if they dont have enough guns and military training.

Just look at class war in Finland in 1918.

[Che's Cypher]

Forming an organized leftist militia goes against our gun control stance. How would we justify the keeping of our own guns when we urge the complete elimination of firearms in America?

Comrades, we should obviously keep arms to defend against the fascist Bushites and also to wage our own offensive against the sheeple, but we should not do it in an "organized" fashion. That would only give fodder to NAZIS to call us hypocrites... those fools. It would also allow those jack booted thugs in the Federal Bureau of Intimidation to try and infiltrate our ranks, but it would be fruitless of course.

Make guns illegal for most of America, but there are always black market sources for everything.

To Revolution&#33;

[Pete]

General strikes are much more legitmate and powerful than a group of &#39;radically terrorist commie pinko bastard&#39; my friend. Look at Quebec. Let that be our model of a goal. Bring the government to its knees working outside of it, but peacefully non-the-less&#33;

-Pete

[Comrade Ceausescu]

the fight club style is certainly an effective method, but its highly impracticle, there are way too many ppl who would never cooperate on such a grand scale.

It would work better then a militia.Face it,our movement isn&#39;t large enough for an effective one to be created.

[truthaddict11]

Forming an organized leftist militia goes against our gun control stance. How would we justify the keeping of our own guns when we urge the complete elimination of firearms in America?


whats this "we" talk? since when does being a leftist or communist mean you are for liberal gun banning? I am against the banning of guns.

There are some threads on gun control this one I think is the best

Link (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=4&t=17780&hl=gun%20control&st=40)

[Agent provocateur]

Originally posted by Che&#39;s [email protected] 12 2003, 10:08 PM
Forming an organized leftist militia goes against our gun control stance. How would we justify the keeping of our own guns when we urge the complete elimination of firearms in America?

Comrades, we should obviously keep arms to defend against the fascist Bushites and also to wage our own offensive against the sheeple, but we should not do it in an "organized" fashion. That would only give fodder to NAZIS to call us hypocrites... those fools. It would also allow those jack booted thugs in the Federal Bureau of Intimidation to try and infiltrate our ranks, but it would be fruitless of course.

Make guns illegal for most of America, but there are always black market sources for everything.

To Revolution&#33;
It&#39;s this kind of crazy defeatist talk that impugns revolutionary groups. I will say no more on this topic since I am obviously on the wrong board. I thought this was the "Che Guevara" board not some watered-down version of Che Guevara that wants to put him on a manger under the fucking Christmas tree with Mary and Joseph and the little angels.

[Comité De Salut Public]

Originally posted by Agent [email protected] 6 2003, 08:36 PM
I never hear of anyone but the Black Panthers and the Black Muslims organize leftist militias back in the 60s. All I hear nowadays are these southern rednecks training for the racist Turner Diaries "day of doom" to arrive. What I would give for the day to arrive when leftists will have their own militia army and since it is not illegal why not? The Second amendment provides for right-wingers to have their shit why don&#39;t I hear of leftists having their own militia? (Or have they and I&#39;m just ignorant. Please fill me in.) Leftists should not overtly declare their militia to be intent on overthrowing the government by violence. Leftists should just say that they are just training "to protect themselves" against right-wing violence and racist lynchings, etc.
This is a fine proposal. I don&#39;t know why more people don&#39;t support it. As long as you don&#39;t profess openly or even in private that you are working to undermine the government you should be fine; however, there should be a tacit agreement among the members that violent uprising is the course to follow.

[redstar2000]

I thought this was the "Che Guevara" board not some watered-down version of Che Guevara that wants to put him on a manger under the fucking Christmas tree with Mary and Joseph and the little angels.

:lol:

http://anarchist-action.org/forums/images/smiles/redstar.gif

The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/)
A site about communist ideas

[peaccenicked]

The left do not organise militias. Militias get formed by people who initually feel the weight of oppression and the actively seek to defend themselves.
It is a direct response to a direct political situation. What tends to be true is that these groups,if their greivances are genuine tend to become leftist.
Why? Leftists are identified with the struggles of the oppressed. Some of these groups have started from the right and ended up on the left.
Another way Militias are formed is during massive strikes by workers when they need to defend themselves from scabs, and strikebreakers. These are never usually instigated by the left but by workers themselves.
The left might involved on the streets as it were but not directly in organisation.
Agent provocateurs on the other hand try to get both the left and the oppressed into trouble by over reacting to an oppressive situation.
The left is used to these people so they are usually given a body swerve,
as they have no understanding of leftist thinking and especially on approaches for gaining roots in the communities.
We laugh our heads off at them. And the more the comeback the more we can take the piss. :D :D :D :D :ph34r: :ph34r:

[Valkyrie]

You are a genius Agent P. Yes, Why doesn&#39;t the Left have a military arm? I think it&#39;s quite the plausible tactic that the Left will have to form their own militias of some sort, even if only symbolic. The Leftist mantra toward a direct worker&#39;s uprising, however romantic and purely Leninist as that sounds, is fairly remote considering that Mc-militias aren&#39;t going to form out of the torpid fast-food and garment worker industries, etc. Anyway, collective bargaining is sooo successful that the process stops long before the worker&#39;s are able to seize control of the means of production, if they are even thinking towards that end.

In respect for the developing countries of the world who are dying under the weight of tyranny --- do we even have time to wait for the arduous process of seizing one sub-sector of industry at a time? Is that even possible to do on it&#39;s own? I don&#39;t think so, but rather the use of a combined total of all strategies...