Why don't leftists like being called a hippie?

[Railyon]

I never understood this.

I myself come out of the hippie scene (and am still a self-described "radical hippie"), and I never got why this is such a swear word in the left.

What's the reason for that?

Some hysteria over it like with "ultra-lefts"? Their lack of a class analysis? LIBERALISM?! SHOCK HORROR

[Obs]

Hippies took a progressive movement in the US and diluted its principles with so much stupid, idealist bullshit it became practically useless. Plus their hair smells and their clothes are ugly as hell.

[Railyon]

Hippies took a progressive movement in the US and diluted its principles with so much stupid, idealist bullshit it became practically useless.
Which one would that be?



Plus their hair smells and their clothes are ugly as hell.
Because middle class post-grad lefties look and smell so much better

[El Oso Rojo]

Its impiles that we sit around and smoke pot, fuck, and have circle chant songs all day. A friend of mine called me a college hippie know it all, which I don't see how I am a hippie when he very much know damn well that I am not a hippie, (hippie hate guns and violent video games) I go to a community college on a pell grant, he acts like I go to washington university or Havard. Plus I am learning a trade (Fine arts).

Yet again we like to give each other shit.

[Sasha]

sure there where good hippies:
http://www.filmcritic.com/assets_c/2010/02/The-Weather-Underground-thumb-560xauto-26368.gifhttp://www.isioma.net/bommi.gif http://saveoxtrees.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/warningnotice1.jpg http://www.depers.nl/UserFiles/Image/2009/200902/20090226/provo%20lieverdje%20ANP%20RUUD%20HOFF.jpg
also; MC5, sanfransisco diggers, christiania, weatherunderground, metropolitanindians, provo etc etc

no, not a problem if anyone likens me to those who came before me in struggle...

BUT, first google image search results for hippie:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f7/RussianRainbowGathering_4Aug2005.jpg/220px-RussianRainbowGathering_4Aug2005.jpg http://www.h2joy.nl/wp-content/uploads/hippie-48540.jpg etc etc

now you guess what people are calling us when they call us hippies and wether we should take that as a compliment..

[Jimmie Higgins]

I never understood this.

I myself come out of the hippie scene (and am still a self-described "radical hippie"), and I never got why this is such a swear word in the left.Well first of all because a lot of people on the left don't come from this subculture but are often connected to it by people outside both the left and this subculture.

In a more general sense of antipathy towards hippies, well in my age group, Gen X, "hippie" has long been a slur. In my opinion this is because we grew up in the shadow of the 1960s but only knew an era of declining mobility, options and reverses in social reforms. On top of that, any radical edge of remaining hippies or counter-culture institutions (such as free-weekly papers and so on) was totally gone and replaced with a white-washed liberalism in all but some very fringe hangers-on. So the "hippie" we saw was a very liberal very moralistic caricature that's more flower-power deadhead than SDS or Yippie.

So the result is we got a large dose of post-hippie baby-boomer self-congragalatory "we changed the world" mythology constantly while experiencing life during a ruling class attack and resurgence. So this is why Punk and Slaker and Hip Hop subcultures have tended to be very skeptical of baby-boomer counter-cultures.

I think the attitude of younger people today is much different - they probably grew up only experiencing anti-hippie backlash and so maybe they see punk as the hypocritical and bankrupt subculture whereas they see hippies as something more genuine.


Some hysteria over it like with "ultra-lefts"? Their lack of a class analysis? LIBERALISM?! SHOCK HORRORI'm not sure what you are saying here. Do you mean why single-out hippies for something common among most people regardless of their subculture?

But getting back to the view of hippies among leftists... I actually think it may be more cultural than political (the old left of the 1930s didn't trust the hippie-ish New Left because they saw the subculture as alienating while post-boomer leftists may dislike "hippies" for some of the reasons I suggested above). I am not a hippie in the deadhead sense, but I would never not-organize with someone who was a hippie and in fact I know some great comrades who reek of potuli-oil :D. But I do oppose some of the politics commonly associated with "hippies" here in the US - mostly moralism and induvidual lifestyleism. But as far as I'm concerned, culturally people should do what they like and someone can be a hippie, rasta, punk-crustie and reject moralism for materialism.

As for me I'm a Northern California Slacker which ironically makes me a contemporary hippie cos this is what the dominant punk scene sounds like in the Bay Area now. It's a new era and no doubt youth subcultures will begin to reflect this. A new synthesis of hippie optimism with a punk rock and hip hop economic context?

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[Railyon]

now you guess what people are calling us when they call us hippies and wether we should take that as a compliment..

Same deal as with commie then.


I'm not sure what you are saying here. Do you mean why single-out hippies for something common among most people regardless of their subculture?

Didn't think of it that way, but it's a good point. It's not like their politics set them apart, so it's not like they're special; I can imagine in ten years or so people will talk like that of Occupyers, they already do. I see no point in solely belittling movements in an elitist fashion, and that's what my ultra-left comment was supposed to be about (damn them! can't they see xy is the right way etc)

[Raúl Duke]

Why don't leftists like being called a hippie?

I don't mind, as long as I'm not receiving the epithet in a derogatory manner.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Because it doesn't accurately describe me.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Didn't think of it that way, but it's a good point. It's not like their politics set them apart, so it's not like they're specialRight, I think this is my view of subcultures - they don't have an inherent ideology and so are dependent or reflective of larger trends in society.

I think this is why people get confused or cynical about hippies because they see some of the earlier and more socially-active aspects of the early counter-culture and then are confused as to why it became "watered-down" or more apolitical and withdrawn from social issues. When you see footage of S.F. hippies from back in the day, they are talking about "communism" (in an abstract sense) and explicitly see themselves as anti-capitalist. Now, more often than that, in the US if you meet a young dreadlocked deadhead type hippie their "individual" freedom doesn't take the form of radical politics but of soft liberal libertarian type politics. They're all about "buy local" and starting some boutique shop of their own in their views about freedom and liberation.


I can imagine in ten years or so people will talk like that of Occupyers, they already do. I see no point in solely belittling movements in an elitist fashion, and that's what my ultra-left comment was supposed to be about (damn them! can't they see xy is the right way etc)Well I think occupy is different because while there were some people who viewed it in a sort of lifestyle and "be-in" sort of way, there was also an explicitly political and ideological component of the movement - it was a movement in my view, not a lifestyle or subculture.

I don't know, when we are talking about personal lifestyles and choices, yes I agree, there is no need for others to moralize or hold elitist ideas. But in the realm of action, of social movements and struggle, not everything is created equal and I don't think it's elitist to try and figure out and argue for what might be the best course to take. For lifestyles and subcultures and induvidual passtimes, the only chriteria are if they are useful and helpful for that induvidual - I love going to parties and local concerts and this is an outlet and a sense of community for me, so that's all that should matter. However, when trying to work out strategies for trying to change the world, more than what is personally fulfilling is required.

For example, in California, people talk about having an electric car as if they are now absolved from having to worry about environmental destruction. "I've done my part" they say, but while there is nothing wrong with having an electric car, it won't solve the problems of capitalist production leading to environmental destruction - the idea, then, that personal purchases will fix it, or that the environmental destruction is the fault of what people decide to buy rather than how things are produced, actually hurt the cause of trying to stop this environmental destruction. So I don't think it's elitist to say to someone, "well that's a nice car, but really what will it take to stop man-made environmental destruction".

[Jimmie Higgins]

I don't mind, as long as I'm not receiving the epithet in a derogatory manner.I prefer being called a "freak" to hippie. Can that come back please?

[The Machine]

fuck it i say embrace it. me and wiz are bringing it back. since i grown my hair out all the girls call me jimi.

[Goblin]

Because hippies are a bunch of obnoxious liberal douchebags!

Beatniks > Hippies

[PC LOAD LETTER]

Where I live, "Hippie" now is generally used to describe people who are into new age spirituality crap and who are dogmatically pacifist. It's lost all connection to the social movement of the past beyond a common theme of partaking in the ganja.

Cue girl I went to high school with posting on facebook about how her new son has a "gentle aura" unlike most people's "auras"

[Railyon]

I actually became a communist because I am a hippie. It was more ideological though; I saw that the world I wanted was completely incompatible with anything but a communist society, and I later got into Marxist analysis which got me a more concrete way of looking at things.

Maybe I'm more a mental successor to the late 60s hip student commies than American hippies though.

PS, thanks Jimmie for those very insightful posts!

[Bronco]

I guess it's become they're generally thought of as being too romantic, too idealist and for being all into "love" and "peace". I think that's the stereotypical view of hippies anyway, I'm pretty far from being a hippie in terms of my lifestyle, although being an Anarchist and quite sympathetic to pacifism I might be mistaken for one politically

[hatzel]

I don't like being called a hippie because I'm more of a neo-bohemian, you know...

[Welshy]

Because I am not hippy. I listen to black/death/folk/prog metal, I don't smoke weed or do drugs other than drink, I bathe regularly, I don't like the idea of living in a hippy commune, I find their new age spirituality to be ridiculous and hippies that I've met have been largely apolitical/libertarian/green. I've also heard some reject modern science.

In short there is really nothing about hippies that makes me want to be associated with them as a subculture. I can handle individual hippies though.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Because hippies are a bunch of obnoxious liberal douchebags!

Beatniks > Hippies

What about Ginsburg then? He's: Beatnik = Hippie. I mean weren't the hippies just the popularization of the beat subculture?

Various youth subcultures converged around a general sense of youth radicalization. In S.F. before hippie proper it was a bunch people people doing Beatnik-kitsch, in NY City it was the folk scene which then came out west and mixed with the faux beat poetry scene. Add disillusioned Free-Speech movement vets and drugs. Then when pop-music went over to the folk-jazz-beatnik side it all kinda exploded in cultural popularity.

EDIT: also everyone should do some drugs (I'm looking at you black metal dude) and then watch and listen to the videos I posted. Then you should move to the Bay Area and see their shows and buy me tickets to those shows.

[PC LOAD LETTER]

Because I am not hippy. I listen to black/death/folk/prog metal, I don't smoke weed or do drugs other than drink, I bathe regularly, I don't like the idea of living in a hippy commune, I find their new age spirituality to be ridiculous and hippies that I've met have been largely apolitical/libertarian/green. I've also heard some reject modern science.

In short there is really nothing about hippies that makes me want to be associated with them as a subculture. I can handle individual hippies though.
Yes, like Jimmy Higgins said: you should. You're missing out.

Especially since drinking is more harmful than some recreational drugs ... I've weed and hallucinogens in mind when I say that.

[gorillafuck]

also; MC5, sanfransisco diggers, christiania, weatherunderground, metropolitanindians, provo etc etcthe weather underground were "good" hippies?

by "good" do you mean stalinist urban guerilla hippies?

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

If anyone calls me a hippie for being a communist, I'll just say, "I don't think you understand what kind of communist I am..........................
..............................
...................
........
GULAG, CHEKA, STALINNNNNN"

And that'll scare them away.

[Railyon]

Because I am not hippy. I listen to black/death/folk/prog metal, I don't smoke weed or do drugs other than drink, I bathe regularly, I don't like the idea of living in a hippy commune, I find their new age spirituality to be ridiculous and hippies that I've met have been largely apolitical/libertarian/green. I've also heard some reject modern science.

That's a very stereotyped view of it in my opinion... taste in music, drug use, hygiene, hippie commune, are not something that makes you a hippie straight away.

Maybe I should change my title to Marx-Engels-Leary-Wilson-Rooster.

[Drosophila]

One person from the "hippie" era told me that "hippie" was merely a dress style that has been twisted to mean something else by conservatives. Not sure if that's true or not.

[Railyon]

First I heard of it though.

[bcbm]

As for me I'm a Northern California Slacker which ironically makes me a contemporary hippie cos this is what the dominant punk scene sounds like in the Bay Area now. It's a new era and no doubt youth subcultures will begin to reflect this. A new synthesis of hippie optimism with a punk rock and hip hop economic context?

i think we're in a more or less post-subcultural era or at least some people are where you just take whatever you like and listen to whatever you like... hippie lookin dudes getting drunk at punk shows, punks on mdma at 80s electro dance party, straight edge long hair jazz influenced punkers, mods banging to some thrash... whatever, pick clean the rubbish of the past it doesn't matter anymore. personally i find people who still invest heavily in subcultural identities kind of a joke, i mean i do a like 'skin' style or whatever but i don't beat up long hairs or only listen to soul music. as far as outlook goes, i am not sensing the optimism but i guess things are prob diff in the bay area than the midwest

[Os Cangaceiros]

The original hippies all grew up, moved to the suburbs and voted for Reagan.

[bcbm]

or followed the dead

[Railyon]

Like Marxists?

[black magick hustla]

if you can't have a visceral sense of disgust at seeing dirty looking white people with dreads in a drumcircle then its p. hard to explain if that doesn't inspire you extreme violent sentiments

[Railyon]

Class analysis?

Fuck that.

The future only knows two classes and one question:

Are you on the bus or off the bus?

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

Because hippies are a bunch of obnoxious liberal douchebags!

Beatniks > Hippies

That's so totally underground and retro.

[NewLeft]

I read Marcuse
Chairman mao in my wallet
New age yoga classes
"Newleft"

[Railyon]

You, Sir, are definitely on the bus and therefore part of the revolutionary mess.

[Lobotomy]

all the hippies in my town pretend to be so "tolerant" and shit but they're really often the most judgmental people I've ever met.

[Ostrinski]

I think you can be part of a subculture but not subscribe to its ideology as an accessory.

[Rusty Shackleford]

probably because i watched south park a lot in my youth?

[Railyon]

I think you can be part of a subculture but not subscribe to its ideology as an accessory.

Does the hippie subculture have an ideology? I though Higgins said they had none that was special to themselves.

[Crux]

I don't hate hippies. I do very much dislike the new age scene because that's where the tinfoilhats live.

[Nox]

Because we don't want to grouped with liberal scum.

[Jimmie Higgins]

i think we're in a more or less post-subcultural era or at least some people are where you just take whatever you like and listen to whatever you like... hippie lookin dudes getting drunk at punk shows, punks on mdma at 80s electro dance party, straight edge long hair jazz influenced punkers, mods banging to some thrash... whatever, pick clean the rubbish of the past it doesn't matter anymore. personally i find people who still invest heavily in subcultural identities kind of a joke, i mean i do a like 'skin' style or whatever but i don't beat up long hairs or only listen to soul music. as far as outlook goes, i am not sensing the optimism but i guess things are prob diff in the bay area than the midwestYeah, maybe not optimism outright - maybe just a feeling of being fed up, but somehow I interpret that optimistically. Maybe it's just with high unemployment for working class kids and lack of upward mobility for would-be professional-kids, youth culture seems more vibrant because more people are making homemade music and organizing cultural or social things themselves.

[Lev Bronsteinovich]

The real problem with that label is that it is a non-political or sub-political category. Call me a commie, fine -- that describes my politics. Call me a "hippy"' and what does that mean? That I like tie-dyed shirts and patchouli? "Hippy" is a very non-specific term that has to do with life-style, not politics.

[Railyon]

Because we don't want to grouped with liberal scum.
>>Anarchist
>>doesn't want to be grouped with liberal scum

Wrong side of the fence brah :lol:

[Raúl Duke]

I prefer being called a "freak" to hippie. Can that come back please?

:)

One day, one day

[Ostrinski]

hippie-hating is just posturism there i said it

[Railyon]

:)

One day, one day

Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers are my idols. I'm a mix of Fat Freddy and Freewheelin' Frank in both looks and attitude lol (if that ain'T a freak I dunno)

[gorillafuck]

hippie-hating is just posturism there i said itthis is completely true.


all the hippies in my town pretend to be so "tolerant" and shit but they're really often the most judgmental people I've ever met.this is the case with many people who associate with "alternative" subcultural stuff

[An archist]

It's mainly a punk thing.
I used to go to parties that had a 'no dogs, no hippies' sign at the door

[Game Girl]

I've been called a hippie for several reasons. Because of my love for nature and because I talk about peace between humans.

...WHY IS THAT CONSIDERED BAD?! I don't get this world...

[ColonelCossack]

Because I'm not a hippie. It's factually incorrect.

[Railyon]

I've been called a hippie for several reasons. Because of my love for nature and because I talk about peace between humans.

...WHY IS THAT CONSIDERED BAD?! I don't get this world...

Me neither. Especially because being considered a helpless idealist is soooo uncommon for leftists. :cool:

[Loony]

If anyone wants to call me a hippie, than they better get themselves some decent glasses, or stop looking at someone else.

I'm a wage-earning person in quite a respectful profession. I dress modestly and conservatively. I drive an average car. You wouldn't look at me twice if you walked past me in the street.

I'm past the age where I need to dress a certain way to "fit" into a subculture. I don't need to prove anything to anyone by smoking weed or growing dreads.

[heyjoe]

id rather be called a hippie than a hipster

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

id rather be called a hippie than a hipster

I rather be called an authoritarian.

[ed miliband]

id rather be called a hippie than a hipster

why?

[Искра]

Because I'm a skinhead and I kick hippies every friday.

[Sentinel]

Well no matter how you twist or turn it, neither the political tradition I'm part of ('Trotskyism'), nor the one I was brought up with ('Anti-Revisionist Marxism-Leninism'), can really be described as a 'hippie' one. That said, I've nothing against any hippies though, and I'd be confused but not offended if I was mistaken for one.

[Railyon]

I'm past the age where I need to dress a certain way to "fit" into a subculture. I don't need to prove anything to anyone by smoking weed or growing dreads.

I'm a hipster hippie. At the last march I was the only one not wearing black and the only one wearing a tie, beat that.

My super long curly hair and my fat mutton chops don't really help I guess.

[the last donut of the night]

because they smell bad

[PC LOAD LETTER]

I'm a hipster hippie. At the last march I was the only one not wearing black and the only one wearing a tie, beat that.

My super long curly hair and my fat mutton chops don't really help I guess.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-riQj_zjg154/TtVy_V_DXII/AAAAAAAAAX4/Ae3QNd3fJM8/s1600/Hyde.jpg

[#FF0000]

i know a girl who is kind of a hippie and she is so nice

[Revolution starts with U]

All my friends are new age hippies (and yes, most of them smell terrible, and all of them are idealist to the max), and I talk about "embracing the now," and not "running from who you really are" so I get bundled up with them a lot.

Nevertheless, I don't care if you want to call me a hippie. I mean, I shower, I wear sweaters and collared shirts, I actually read and enjoy scientific literature, I'm not a pacifist, I don't like parties, I'm a hardcore materialist... but sure, hippy, whatevs :lol:

[Zealot]

Because, instead of waging revolution, they sat around smoking pot and talking about how good it would be if we all loved each other.

[Railyon]

Because, instead of waging revolution, they sat around smoking pot and talking about how good it would be if we all loved each other.

Sounds like your average Maoist sect to me.

[Zealot]

Sounds like your average Maoist sect to me.

Except that Maoists, in many countries, were and actively are out there giving their lives in the struggle for Socialism. I can't say that I've ever heard of a major Hippy movement doing anything close.

[hatzel]

Except that Maoists, in many countries, were and actively are out there giving their lives in the struggle for Socialism.

Well we live in the global north where Maoists never do anything ever except for pull some proper NIMBY-support for nationalist guerillas out in Timbuktu or wherever whilst making nice-sounding noises about freedom and shit. Sounds exactly like the stereotypical hippie to me...

[Искра]

Tbh, on a second tought I like more hippies than activists. Hippies smoke pot and listen to Incredible String Band (which is a good band) or MC5 (which is like fucking hell yeah) and leftists smoke pot and talk how they should buy guns cause state is after them and all they do is some stupid antifa shit and drawing on the walls...

Hippies are at least more honest. They admit that they are liberals.

[gorillafuck]

Because I'm a skinhead and I kick hippies every friday.lol.

[corolla]

Because, instead of waging revolution, they sat around smoking pot and talking about how good it would be if we all loved each other.

If this was what hippies were nowadays, I would love hippies. But in my experience, modern hippies are the most self-righteous, snobby douchebags in the world. Actually, just yesterday a friend of a friends, who is a hippie, was talking about how glad he is that they finally closed down the paper plant in my city because of pollution. I asked him if he was glad about all the workers losing their jobs, and he said yeah, they shouldn't have been polluting the environment. I wanted to smack him.

[Railyon]

Well that's not exactly a neo-hippie position IMO. You could hear the originals say the same shit in the 60s.

Modern hippies I associate with new ageism and stuff, and other bogus.

[corolla]

Yeah I don't know anything about old hippies or the history of hippies and I don't really give a shit. All I know is that the hippies I have met are the worst sort of people.

[Angry Young Man]

Where I live, "Hippie" now is generally used to describe people who are into new age spirituality crap and who are dogmatically pacifist. It's lost all connection to the social movement of the past beyond a common theme of partaking in the ganja.

I'm going to back this one as the best answer. Basically, New Age entails rejecting materialism, which means your entire objection to capitalism is moral, as well as denying Marxian sociology which, in my humble opinion, is silly.

[El Oso Rojo]

Except that Maoists, in many countries, were and actively are out there giving their lives in the struggle for Socialism. I can't say that I've ever heard of a major Hippy movement doing anything close.

I would say every person in every tendency gave their lives to fight for the cause, not just maoist. Marxist Leninists, Trotskyists ( Trotskyists come in different flavors), anarchists (not the lifestylists or the ones with no sense) had did everything for the movement around the world.

But the hippie did their part but True be told potheads unless they the ones that can get their shit together are stupid.

[Railyon]

Basically, New Age entails rejecting materialism, which means your entire objection to capitalism is moral

Well, that's not such a strong argument against New Age then, as most anticapitalism is constructed around morality in one way or another, unless you adopt a purely stagist conception of historical materialism in which socialism must follow the capitalist stage not because it is for the better of a class or anything, but purely "because that's how it works".

[Angry Young Man]

Problem is that you don't replace an economic system with morals. You have to understand how and why it fails.

[Revolution starts with U]

You can counter New Age woo woo like this:

Take a shower and get a job hippie! :lol:

No but really, you can't refute New Age. They already think science is bogus (yet put everything in pseudo-scientific terms). Often they are worse than the religious because of their "I'm not judging but that guy is scum" holier-than-thou attitude.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Because when the police are arresting people instead of telling the police to fuck off they tell them "we love you!"

I just can't get behind that kind of bullshit sorry.

[Revolution starts with U]

The idea behind it, for better or worse, is that violence only begets violence. It's naive. But there you have it...

[Railyon]

The idea behind it, for better or worse, is that violence only begets violence. It's naive. But there you have it...

Actively breaking the dialectic of violence, comrade. Something leftists won't do, hippies are so effin progressive!

[Angry Young Man]

You can't make an omelette without having a frank and serious discussion with a few eggs.

[Niall]

I dont like being called a hippie because Im not a hippie. Simple

[homegrown terror]

hippies: headed in the right direction, then got too busy fucking and making granola to finish the trip.

[PC LOAD LETTER]

I would say every person in every tendency gave their lives to fight for the cause, not just maoist. Marxist Leninists, Trotskyists ( Trotskyists come in different flavors), anarchists (not the lifestylists or the ones with no sense) had did everything for the movement around the world.

But the hippie did their part but True be told potheads unless they the ones that can get their shit together are stupid.
Fuck this elitist, socially conservative, capitalism-apologist crap

Seriously? I'm got to ask why the fuck nobody noticed this assertion that those who can't "get their shit together" in our society are stupid?

[Luc]

hippies: headed in the right direction, then got too busy fucking and making granola to finish the trip.

why is fucking not in the right direction? :huh:

granola sucks though amen

[homegrown terror]

why is fucking not in the right direction? :huh:

granola sucks though amen

i was never saying it wasn't, just that the "free love" movement kinda sidetracked them away from true revolution.

[Luc]

i was never saying it wasn't, just that the "free love" movement kinda sidetracked them away from true revolution.

sorry lol :blushing: i was just trying to be a smart ass :tongue_smilie:

:D

[homegrown terror]

sorry lol :blushing: i was just trying to be a smart ass :tongue_smilie:

:D

hence the colbert avatar?

[Luc]

hence the colbert avatar?

Exactly!

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

cos i'm not a hipper i'm a cool motherfucker.

:lol: