Earth Liberation Front article

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

Although this article hasn't been active since 2005, I was so dissapointed in some of the unbelievable ignorance. I expected better from the commenters.

I am unable to post the link, but check under articles and it's one of the 5 most active articles.

This is not about whether or not animals are on the same level as humans, or whether or not we should stop eating animals, but to highlight what were the complete misconceptions on the Animal Liberation Front and Earth Liberation Front. As a big supporter of both, I want to explain.

1. The ALF/ELF are primitivist group.

They are not. While both groups have primitivists, they are only a minority of a larger group. I've read a communiqué on one attack, and they labled themselves as anarcho communists.

2. They care more about people then animals.

They do not. They want them to be equal, and to not have animals be subjected to cruelty. There is nothing crazy about that.

3. They do not care about workers rights/conditions.

They attack people who treat animals as property, people who are cruel to animals, and people who kill animals. That does not mean in any way that they do not support workers rights. They just don't want any creature to be subjected to unnecessary cruelty. As a vegetarian, I want animals to live free, and I want workers to have good conditions and rights, but not at the expense of an innocent creatures life.

[Ostrinski]

Fuck the ALF

[Prometeo liberado]

I want animals to live free, and I want workers to have good conditions and rights, but not at the expense of an innocent creatures life.
I dont want to get into the whole "animals hunt and are hunted" therefore where is this mythical innocence you speak of nonsense. Its been done to death so lets move on.
Workers will only get the "good conditions" as you call it at the expense of a whole class of people. Blood unfortunately will be shed on all sides and of all creatures. So long as people like you understand this and don't try and meddle about in the business of actual liberation than do what you will. :)

p.s. You say you "workers to have good conditions and rights, but not at the expense of an innocent creatures life"? This is revleft son. Workers control of the means of production, period. BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY! SPARE NO EXPENSE! Maybe this forum is not for you?

[TheGodlessUtopian]

I fully support the A.L.F and the E.L.F ...seems like some revolutionaries still have the gall to do something "radical (I know such is not a popular opinion here but I couldn't care less.lol)."

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

They still sound like psychos. Even in primitive communism, animals were communal property. Fuck all these groups.

[Prometeo liberado]

I fully support the A.L.F and the E.L.F ...seems like some revolutionaries still have the gall to do something "radical (I know such is not a popular opinion here but I couldn't care less.lol)."

Being physically radical, no matter how pronounced and media effective an organization may be, does not and will not effect the material conditions of the people. It just silly timothy-mcveigh-bourgeoisie-animal-liberation-adventurism.

p.s. And dont get me started on that crazy rabbit that likes to steal kids cereal. Silly Rabbit, adventurisms' for kids.

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

I dont want to get into the whole "animals hunt and are hunted" therefore where is this mythical innocence you speak of nonsense. Its been done to death so lets move on.
Workers will only get the "good conditions" as you call it at the expense of a whole class of people. Blood unfortunately will be shed on all sides and of all creatures. So long as people like you understand this and don't try and meddle about in the business of actual liberation than do what you will. :)

p.s. You say you "workers to have good conditions and rights, but not at the expense of an innocent creatures life"? This is revleft son. Workers control of the means of production, period. BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY! SPARE NO EXPENSE! Maybe this forum is not for you?

I don't know what innocence I was talking about. I also don't see how animals will be killed for workers conditions. However, I appreciate your input all the same.

So because I believe in animals rights, I don't belong here? I would like to see animals not being treated as means of production.

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

Way to contribute to the conversation.

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

But once again, you're lumping them together as primitivist groups.

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

Good to see some other supporters!:thumbup:

[Ele'ill]

Oh good, this discussion again I can't wait. First of all no not fuck the ALF.

[Obs]

Sink the Sea Shepherds etc. and 420 kill lots of animals for no reason everyday. I can't stand the ELF or their counterparts. Some of my best friends are fishermen.

[Ele'ill]

Sink the one liners. Thanks.

[Mass Grave Aesthetics]

I´m jumping on the fuck ALF bandwagon. They are worthless.

[Ele'ill]

Let's discuss animal and earth liberation.

[Ostrinski]

Animals can only be liberated through my stomach.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Let's discuss animal and earth liberation.

LOL. No offence, but you sound like a fucking hippie.

[Ele'ill]

The next off topic posts in this thread will result in immediate infractions. This thread is not in chit chat.

[Leftsolidarity]

Wasn't there a couple huge threads on this a few months ago?

Maybe someone should dig those out and we'll continue this oh so painful debate.

Btw, fuck "Fuck the ALF". I'm a vegetarian. I support animal liberation and I support being better environmental wise.

I stopped giving a major fuck about most of that stuff though because the debates get very annoying and basically boil down to "Well, I'm not one of those animals so I don't care. If you care that's petty-bourgeois and moralism."

Lets give it another go, though. Shall we?

[Ele'ill]

There have been several very heated debates on this forum. The threads were pretty long and I think starting over is best if we want to discuss the topic.

[Ostrinski]

Equal rights for animals either means that I don't get to eat them or that I can but they can eat me. How is that not a batshit insane position?

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

You guys have completely gotten off topic. While my post should have been less opinionated, for the most part you all missed the point. This is NOT for opinion, this is to point out what was wrong in the article.

[Jesus Saves Gretzky Scores]

I can't imagine you'll be in a position where you're facing an animal that will kill you, but if you need to defend yourself, go ahead.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

I support the ethical treatment of non-human animals. That doesn't mean we can't eat them, just that they should be treated without cruelty while they're alive. Capitalist modes of meat production are horrific, but not surprising. Why should capitalists care about animals when they don't even care about human workers?

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Equal rights for animals either means that I don't get to eat them or that I can but they can eat me. How is that not a batshit insane position?

Verbal warning, trolling.

How about we stay away from flame bait?

[Ostrinski]

Verbal warning, trolling.

How about we stay away from flame bait?
I was being serious. That is exactly what "equal rights" for animals implies.

[Per Levy]

3. They do not care about workers rights/conditions.

They attack people who treat animals as property, people who are cruel to animals, and people who kill animals. That does not mean in any way that they do not support workers rights. They just don't want any creature to be subjected to unnecessary cruelty. As a vegetarian, I want animals to live free, and I want workers to have good conditions and rights, but not at the expense of an innocent creatures life.

ok what is their stance on workers, class struggle and so on then? i mean if they are, as you say, mostly anarcho-communists they should have a stance on those topics right?


They attack people who kill animals

so they attack workers who work in meat factories? i mean most animals arnt killed for fun and joy but for their flesh and food.

[Grenzer]

Equal rights for animals either means that I don't get to eat them or that I can but they can eat me. How is that not a batshit insane position?

Groups like the ELF and the kind of "animal rights" they support purely liberal in conception. Other animals are not humans, so it's quite bizarre that people are so vehement that they should have the same rights. It would be another case if it were sentient species we were talking about, but such is not the scenario.

Whenever it comes to non-human animals and the environment, all logic and reasoning seems to fly entirely out the window in many cases. I seem to notice two prevailing view when it comes to the environment. In the first, advocates state that we must live sustainably and take environmental protection measures because it's logical. The second view is that we should treat animals and the environment a certain way because we don't have the right to do otherwise.

Most "animal rights" activists and environmentalists take the latter view, which is pure liberalism and idealism. It is rooted in neither materialism nor science. What's more, they take their liberal positions and turn it into lifestylism and insist that everyone else must take up the same positions.

We should strive to reorder society in a sustainable manner, but no more; because we have to, not out of some kind of idealism. Most of these latter people also tend to have very reactionary views in the vein of Malthusianism.

I'm against animal abuse and things like that, but I think a lot of what activists propose go way, way beyond that. Butchering cows and the like is not abuse; there is no intention of arbitrary pain and suffering.

As communists we should be advocating a policy of sustainability which is firmly rooted in both science and materialism, but this seems to be entirely absent within the left and outside it.

[Proukunin]

LOL. No offence, but you sound like a fucking hippie.

Hippies don't take direct action fucker.

You sound like an asshole

[Proukunin]

I'm pretty sure the ALF attacks those who are known to torture animals in excruciating ways.

I really don't give a fuck about the people here who are against animal rights and direct action. Especially the outright fucking assholes on here who simply don't even want to listen to a person talking about animal rights..as if when you see animal and rights in a sentence you immediately go insane with rage. I certainly hope you don't support scientists sewing chimps eyes together and sticking them in small tubes for weeks..torturing rabbits to find out information on a new lipstick. Treating dogs and cats like pieces of shit..you know an animal has the same feelings as a human baby..why don't we sew their eyes together and stick them in little tubes for science? maybe because that'd be inhumane?:confused:

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Hippies don't take direct action fucker.

You sound like an asshole

Edit: Forget it. I'm not even going to bother with assholes.

[Proukunin]

I don't think leftists here like being called hippies. Stalinist prick.

Apparently I hit you hard with that..but you could say anything and I could shrug it off..Stalinist.:laugh:

[Per Levy]

I don't think leftists here like being called hippies. Stalinist prick.

Apparently I hit you hard with that..but you could say anything and I could shrug it off..Stalinist.:laugh:

flamebait? i mean how is that a usful post, if you support elf then why not pick some of the serious posts and debate those and explain their position on things or where other posters might be wrong in your opinion. a bit trolling can be fun but its allready done in this threat.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

I think all of you will be luck not to receive infraction but whatever the case...

Thread closed.