Learning more about the Sovet Union

[Lanky Wanker]

I don't know as much about it as I should so I need to read up. Any books, documentaries, websites or whatever else you can recommend going from the revolution onwards?

[Rooster]

Alec Nove's An Economic History of the USSR is a good read, especially if you get one of the later editions which covers the whole period.

Shiela Fitzpatrick has done some good work such as Everyday Stalinism and The Russian Revolution.

E.H. Carr is another decent historian who has done a couple of works on the USSR but the only one I have read is his The Russian Revolution which comes in three volumes.

[Deicide]

http://i43.tower.com/images/mm100624083/history-russian-revolution-leon-trotsky-paperback-cover-art.jpg

[daft punk]

What exactly do you want to know?

[#FF0000]

Seconding the Sheila Fitzpatrick suggestion.

[NorwegianCommunist]

Before the Revolution in 1917, schools, education or hospital were not free.
After the Revolution, all of these became free for everyone.
The women in the Soviet Union were the first generation to give birth in a hospital and the right to get child care(or what its called) from the state.
Since the universal healthcare in the USSR, it only took a few decades before the entire union could live without the fear of typhus, cholera and malaria.
The average life expectancy rised from 44 to 68 years in about 30 years after the USSR was created.
Health was a big problem in the Russian Empire.

The education system in the USSR was based on the fact that it was free, and girls have the same rights to get education, just as men.
They also were given stipends (Or money from the state, free) for free use.
In 1914, ONLY 15-20 percent of the Russian Empire were able to read and write.
In 1944, Stalin proudly announced that illiteracy was eliminated.
It is estimated that 99-100% could read and write.
The state guaranteed a work after your education.


From 1957-1970 (13 years!) there was build 34 million apartments around the USSR.
Most of them were build in the center of cities.
They used something called Mikration (Russian: Микрорайон) which means that most of all the apartment building were build only about 500 meters away from schools, kindergardens and grocerystores.

The amount of doctors in the country were trippled and had twice as many doctors per citizen compared to the USA.


Souces:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_union
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin
http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovjetunionen (It's in Norwegian, but got some information there as well)
http://unilorin.edu.ng/journals/education/ije/feb1981/EDUCATION%20IN%20THE%20USSR.pdf
http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0000/000013/001300eo.pdf

[NorwegianCommunist]

In addition;
In 1914, about 187,000 got educated each year in the Russian Empire.
In 1959 it was 2,150,000.

http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/000...3/001300eo.pdf

[Drosophila]

Ian Grey is k00l

[Rooster]

Before the Revolution in 1917, schools, education or hospital were not free.
After the Revolution, all of these became free for everyone.
The women in the Soviet Union were the first generation to give birth in a hospital and the right to get child care(or what its called) from the state.
Since the universal healthcare in the USSR, it only took a few decades before the entire union could live without the fear of typhus, cholera and malaria.
The average life expectancy rised from 44 to 68 years in about 30 years after the USSR was created.
Health was a big problem in the Russian Empire.

The education system in the USSR was based on the fact that it was free, and girls have the same rights to get education, just as men.
They also were given stipends (Or money from the state, free) for free use.
In 1914, ONLY 15-20 percent of the Russian Empire were able to read and write.
In 1944, Stalin proudly announced that illiteracy was eliminated.
It is estimated that 99-100% could read and write.
The state guaranteed a work after your education.


From 1957-1970 (13 years!) there was build 34 million apartments around the USSR.
Most of them were build in the center of cities.
They used something called Mikration (Russian: Микрорайон) which means that most of all the apartment building were build only about 500 meters away from schools, kindergardens and grocerystores.

The amount of doctors in the country were trippled and had twice as many doctors per citizen compared to the USA.


Souces:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_union
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin
http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovjetunionen (It's in Norwegian, but got some information there as well)
http://unilorin.edu.ng/journals/education/ije/feb1981/EDUCATION%20IN%20THE%20USSR.pdf
http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0000/000013/001300eo.pdf

Well, look. You're not providing much context, nor mentioning class relations etc etc etc plus, you're peddling incorrect truths. For instance, education in the SU was not free. There's loads of stuff about this as well, mostly in the books I mentioned, but to be brief; the constitution of 1936 guaranteed free education at all levels but only a few years later, fees were introduced again. Length of education was nowhere near the level of say, the UK, mostly due to financial constraints.

Also, Lanky Wanker, I think you should send a PM to ComradeOm, or at least look up his posts. He's the local expert on the subject.

[Blanquist]

Just read and listen to everything you can, wikipedia, history books from all angles, articles, documentaries, etc.

It's very easy in today's world. Just google whatever you want to know.

Start with the Soviet Union wikipedia.

With enough time you will have absorbed plenty of info to make your judgements, we all read the same books but come to different conclusions.

[NorwegianCommunist]

Well, look. You're not providing much context, nor mentioning class relations etc etc etc plus, you're peddling incorrect truths. For instance, education in the SU was not free. There's loads of stuff about this as well, mostly in the books I mentioned, but to be brief; the constitution of 1936 guaranteed free education at all levels but only a few years later, fees were introduced again. Length of education was nowhere near the level of say, the UK, mostly due to financial constraints.

Also, Lanky Wanker, I think you should send a PM to ComradeOm, or at least look up his posts. He's the local expert on the subject.

This was just to give the thread starter some information, maybe he is interessted in some of the things I wrote about, and then he can find out more himself.

[Deicide]

education in the SU was not free

I don't know about the rest of the USSR, but it was free in the Lithuania SSR, right to the highest level. But.. unless you had the capacity to study at that level, you would not be enrolled.

[Lanky Wanker]

What exactly do you want to know?

Eeeeeverything up until around about the end of Mr Stalin. It's my natural response to completely shut off when people start arguing about Lenin, Stalin and Trotsky and "blah blah blah so and so was a traitor", so that's one thing it'll help me with.

[Rooster]

Eeeeeverything up until around about the end of Mr Stalin. It's my natural response to completely shut off when people start arguing about Lenin, Stalin and Trotsky and "blah blah blah so and so was a traitor", so that's one thing it'll help me with.

I would recommend Shiela Fitzpatrick's The Russian Revolution then. You should be able to get it pretty cheap and it's a real easy read. It deals from before the revolution and up to the end of the first five year plan.


I don't know about the rest of the USSR, but it was free in the Lithuania SSR, right to the highest level. But.. unless you had the capacity to study at that level, you would not be enrolled.

Well, during Stalin's era, education was only free on paper and that was only for a few years. I wrote about this in a couple of different threads. I'll grab some statistics for you if you want.

[Deicide]

Well, during Stalin's era, education was only free on paper and that was only for a few years. I wrote about this in a couple of different threads. I'll grab some statistics for you if you want.

Ah.. I didn't notice you were talking about Stalin's era. Things were a mess, for various reasons, during Stalins era. Well, actually.. the USSR's entire system was a stinking mess.. mostly. I'm still interested in seeing the statistics though, for histories sake.

[NorwegianCommunist]

Well, during Stalin's era, education was only free on paper and that was only for a few years. I wrote about this in a couple of different threads. I'll grab some statistics for you if you want.


You wouldn't mind sharing those statistics with me too? :thumbup1:

[Omsk]

Here are some statistics,regarding various fields,like education,industry,the military,etc etc. (I could provide much,much,more if you wish.)

By [the time of] Stalin's death there were one million full-time students in the universities alone, the largest number in the world after America.
Randall, Francis. Stalin's Russia. New York: Free Press,1965, p. 114


In the five years from 1933 to 1938 about half a million administrators, technicians, economists, and men of other professions had graduated from university schools, an enormous number for a country whose educated classes had previously formed a very thin layer of society.
Deutscher, Isaac. Stalin; A Political Biography. New York: Oxford Univ. Press, 1967, p. 384

During the 1930-ies the cultural development of the Soviet Union advanced in leaps too. The number of students in all schools 1929 was approx. 14 millions. In the year 1938 they had increased to approximately 34 millions, and at that time students in all kinds of courses including part time, amounted to more than 47 millions. Almost a third of all citizens took part of the school system. In the beginning of the 1930-ies 33 per cent were still illiterate in the Soviet Union (67 per cent in 1913). 1938 illiteracy was totally eradicated since several years back. During this period the students at higher forms of education almost tripled from 207,000 to 601,000. The number of libraries was 70,000 in the year 1938 compared with 40,000 in 1933. The amount of books in the libraries 1938 reached the colossal figure of 126 millions to compare with 86 millions 1933.
Sousa, Mario. The Class Struggle During the Thirties in the Soviet Union, 2001.

On the question of literacy:

By the middle of the 1920s, literacy had increased markedly. Improvement in the national republics was especially striking. Compared to 1922, in 1925 the number of literate workers in Georgia grew 15 times, in Kazakhstan five times, in Kirghizia four times, and the pattern was similar in other regions. The main sources of literacy and culture were the workers' clubs in the cities and the reading huts in the villages. The printing of periodicals was three times what it had been in 1913. The building of libraries began on a massive scale. Film studios were built in Odessa, Yerevan, Tashkent, and Baku. More creative literature was being published.
Volkogonov, Dmitri. Stalin: Triumph and Tragedy. New York: Grove Weidenfeld, 1991, p. 127

In 1940 and thereafter Stalin claimed the literacy rate in the USSR was over 99 percent, the most literate country in the world. This was incredible, but there is no reason to doubt that Stalin pushed the Soviet literacy rate to some point around 95 percent, which compared favorably with the most advanced countries. Considering the immensity of the USSR, its 175 languages in which instruction was given, the primitiveness of much of the population, and the desperate shortage of buildings, educational materials, and teachers, Stalin's alphabetization of his many peoples was a great and staggering achievement, and one that cannot be argued away by pointing to the shortcomings of the rest of his school system. Making the USSR a literate nation was Stalin's greatest contribution to the liberation of man.
Randall, Francis. Stalin's Russia. New York: Free Press,1965, p. 111

And a reminder: do note that some of the people i quoted above are also "anti-Stalin types" .

[Rooster]

Article 121 of the '36 constitution is the one that deals with education. That it should be compulsory for all, from elementary to higher. Regardless of education being free it still requires monetary input from parents to support the child. This is the same in capitalist states and we are all familiar with it. The number of people benefiting from socialist education then diminishes as education advances as it becomes harder to support (because you need to save up). So, for the school year of 1939-40 we have these figures:

(numbers in the 000s)
Elementary school (Classes 1-4) 20,471
Junior Secondary school (classes 5-7) 9,715
Full secondary schools (classes 8-10) 1,870
Secondary technical and factory schools 945
Universities and higher education 620

Assuming that all children aged 7-11 attend school, less than half go on to to stay for four more years. Only one in ten had seven years' of schooling. Less than one in twenty finished the ten year course (in comparison to ten years' compulsory education in Britain). So the point I'm getting at is that people left school before they finished. Between 1928 and 1938 , the total number of people admitted to engineering colleges training for transport and industry was 609,200 while only 242,300 graduated. Total admitted to technical 1,062,000 while 362,700 graduated.

The decree of the Council of People's Commissars, published on the 2nd of October 1940, imposed fees of 150-200 roubles a year for the higher classes of secondary school (classes 8-10) and 300-500 roubles a year for colleges with the average wage that time being about 335 roubles a month and with the wage of many workers being around 150 roubles a month. 20% of students dropped out that year.

Quite a long pre-amble but education was not "free". That's a fallacy. You do not get something for nothing. The children of the intelligentsia got through most of this education though, being favoured which in 1938 was 42.3% which could only increase as in 1940 on the same day, vocational training was authorised for 800,000 to 1,000,000 children, from classes 8-10, taking them out of school. This was done on a quota basis and the children of the intelligentsia could avoid this more easily.

[BE_]

There was a documentary on the October Revolution I saw on Netflix. If I remember right it was pretty good. It might not still be on there though. I am trying to find it, but i can't see it so far.

[Lanky Wanker]

There was a documentary on the October Revolution I saw on Netflix. If I remember right it was pretty good. It might not still be on there though. I am trying to find it, but i can't see it so far.

Yeah I did see one on YouTube, it might be the same one 'cause I didn't get much searching for documentaries.