North Korean indoctrination system.

[Deicide]

An Al Jezeera piece on the North Korean propaganda system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_LhXEOsqoE&feature=g-u-u&context=G258b17aFUAAAAAAABAA

[Alfonso Cano]

Al Jazeera: a propaganda system owned by the greatest dictatorship ever to exist; Qatar, a despotic absolute monarchy, with no constitution, parliament and woman's rights whatsoever (unlike North Korea, which has them, at least formally), a television that is forbidden even to slightly criticise Qatari despot, and that gained notoriety for its reporting of Lybian civil war, showing islamist fundamentalist butchers who mimicked Hitler and wiped out Lybian black population from the face of earth as some romantic liberators and fighters for democracy, has the guts to criticise North Korea for its propaganda system. That is irony of the cosmical proportions.

And before you accuse mo of being a supporter of North Korea, I'm not one of them. I just find it funny that people are so much obssesed about one tiny, poor country and their "propaganda", while there are far more troubling topics. For instance, US propaganda system. Just imagine power of indoctrination which it has over its own citizens, when it is able to convince them about existence of weapons of mass destruction that is located in a small third world country and is able to stir up entire nation in a war frenzy resulting in a invasion and death of over a million people and displacement of over five million. That is really worrying, but I doubt you will focus your ultra-left attention to that. First you spit on Cuba, showing “hungry” Cubans (on an island that according to UN has no hungry people present) arrested for diisent, than this shit. What’s next?

Oh, yeah. You could put something about Europe “last dictatorship”, Lukashenko’s Belarus. That has been the favorite target of this forum ultra-leftists. Than we could all marwell at failed revolutions that dissapointed us and dream about perfect revolutions that will never come... :rolleyes:

[the last donut of the night]

Al Jazeera: a propaganda system owned by the greatest dictatorship ever to exist; Qatar, a despotic absolute monarchy, with no constitution, parliament and woman's rights whatsoever (unlike North Korea, which has them, at least formally), a television that is forbidden even to slightly criticise Qatari despot, and that gained notoriety for its reporting of Lybian civil war, showing islamist fundamentalist butchers who mimicked Hitler and wiped out Lybian black population from the face of earth as some romantic liberators and fighters for democracy, has the guts to criticise North Korea for its propaganda system. That is irony of the cosmical proportions.

And before you accuse mo of being a supporter of North Korea, I'm not one of them. I just find it funny that people are so much obssesed about one tiny, poor country and their "propaganda", while there are far more troubling topics. For instance, US propaganda system. Just imagine power of indoctrination which it has over its own citizens, when it is able to convince them about existence of weapons of mass destruction that is located in a small third world country and is able to stir up entire nation in a war frenzy resulting in a invasion and death of over a million people and displacement of over five million. That is really worrying, but I doubt you will focus your ultra-left attention to that. First you spit on Cuba, showing “hungry” Cubans (on an island that according to UN has no hungry people present) arrested for diisent, than this shit. What’s next?

Oh, yeah. You could put something about Europe “last dictatorship”, Lukashenko’s Belarus. That has been the favorite target of this forum ultra-leftists. Than we could all marwell at failed revolutions that dissapointed us and dream about perfect revolutions that will never come... :rolleyes:

calm down. this isn't a place for rants, but for discussions.

that aside, i think it's interesting to analyse the north korean and say, the american, ideological systems through a quasi-anthropological view. the sheer amount of propaganda, "materialized" through symbols, present in the american political discourse was something that always amazed me. you have flags on beer cans, eagles on storefronts, the pictures of presidents and governors in ever public office. it's insane. i've never been to north korea, but i'm sure the forceful pushing of propaganda isn't as massified as is it is in the US. and if it is, at least it's not as "efficient" as in america. ideology has a violence of its own; while you may not get hunted down by the government for being a communist (in any case, america has a huge history of the criminalization of dissent and public speech, especially after 2001), you can be shunned by your community and even friends for being too "anti-american". this happens routinely, and has happened to me: the awkward glances, the sighs, the stubborn refusal to logically discuss ideology, etc. it's another kind of blow to the psyche that can be even more efficient than some kind of state police (which, if i may be sincere, america does have)

[gorillafuck]

Alfonso makes a really good point. a television network owned by the state of Qatar is reporting critically on another small nations propaganda system. total hypocrisy at it's finest.

[Geiseric]

You guys are ignoring the content of the report, like the masses of people crying once Kim jong il died? Wtf's up with that? In a socialist state there should be no cult of personality.

Kim jong ill being Hennesey's single largest importer of whiskey (and hookers) while his people starve is also another thing i'm not OK with, nor him exporting his workers to work in sweat shops.

The restoration to Capitalism will happen in NK, and it IS happening in NK as "free economic zones," are being created all throughout the country. This is what the Bourgeois press does not want you to know, but I read that NK has the lowest labor costs in south east asia.

[Geiseric]

That bit with the baloons with propaganda is smart though, we should remember that.

[gorillafuck]

You guys are ignoring the content of the report, like the masses of people crying once Kim jong il died? Wtf's up with that? In a socialist state there should be no cult of personality.in this case, the context is more important than the content. Al-Jazeera selectively reports on enemy regimes things that are just as applicable, if not more so, to the regimes it supports. making this an obvious propaganda piece.


The restoration to Capitalism will happen in NK, and it IS happening in NK as "free economic zones," are being created all throughout the country. This is what the Bourgeois press does not want you to know, but I read that NK has the lowest labor costs in south east asia.why would they not want people to know that? that seems like the type of thing that countries that oppose North Korea would want people to know. also, Al Jazeera is bourgeois press.

[Os Cangaceiros]

calm down. this isn't a place for rants, but for discussions.

that aside, i think it's interesting to analyse the north korean and say, the american, ideological systems through a quasi-anthropological view. the sheer amount of propaganda, "materialized" through symbols, present in the american political discourse was something that always amazed me. you have flags on beer cans, eagles on storefronts, the pictures of presidents and governors in ever public office. it's insane. i've never been to north korea, but i'm sure the forceful pushing of propaganda isn't as massified as is it is in the US. and if it is, at least it's not as "efficient" as in america. ideology has a violence of its own; while you may not get hunted down by the government for being a communist (in any case, america has a huge history of the criminalization of dissent and public speech, especially after 2001), you can be shunned by your community and even friends for being too "anti-american". this happens routinely, and has happened to me: the awkward glances, the sighs, the stubborn refusal to logically discuss ideology, etc. it's another kind of blow to the psyche that can be even more efficient than some kind of state police (which, if i may be sincere, america does have)

Yes, the propaganda mechanisms of a state like North Korea are crude and primitive. They're what most people think of when they hear the word "propaganda". The American propaganda system is infinitely more developed and complex (and effective).

One of the few good things Glenn Beck has ever recommended on his show were the works of Edward Bernays and Walter Lippman. They were involved in the development of corporate and government propaganda in the USA throughout the 20th century, and their insights are useful. If I was a despotic dictator I would definitely apply the ideas in their books...the kind of shitty socialist realism/state television propaganda is indicative of a society in which the risk of you getting shot to death by your own generals is disturbingly high. The real brilliance of effective propaganda is giving a population the illusion of choice and the free exchange of ideas, when in reality there is very little of that at all. The experience of American news television is a perfect example, with all of it basically split up between only a few massive media conglomerates (although the Internet did change things a bit in this respect).

[Leftsolidarity]

You guys are ignoring the content of the report, like the masses of people crying once Kim jong il died? Wtf's up with that? In a socialist state there should be no cult of personality.

Kim jong ill being Hennesey's single largest importer of whiskey (and hookers) while his people starve is also another thing i'm not OK with, nor him exporting his workers to work in sweat shops.

The restoration to Capitalism will happen in NK, and it IS happening in NK as "free economic zones," are being created all throughout the country. This is what the Bourgeois press does not want you to know, but I read that NK has the lowest labor costs in south east asia.

But who cares? What does it change?

We all know the DPRK isn't what it should be but we (should) know that there are a lot more pressing matters to deal with then spitting on our enemies' enemy.

[Ocean Seal]

An Al Jezeera piece on the North Korean propaganda system.
Yep, whenever I hear about this, I really wonder if the media has nothing better to do. Seriously, obviously the DPRK has a pretty tight fucking propaganda system, but honestly there are a few other countries out there who rival it, and most countries have at least a decent propaganda system with Qatar the absolute monarchy not being far behind the top dogs of propaganda. Besides a silent dictature is just as dangerous as any which rolls out the tanks.

[the last donut of the night]

You guys are ignoring the content of the report, like the masses of people crying once Kim jong il died? Wtf's up with that? In a socialist state there should be no cult of personality.

Kim jong ill being Hennesey's single largest importer of whiskey (and hookers) while his people starve is also another thing i'm not OK with, nor him exporting his workers to work in sweat shops.

The restoration to Capitalism will happen in NK, and it IS happening in NK as "free economic zones," are being created all throughout the country. This is what the Bourgeois press does not want you to know, but I read that NK has the lowest labor costs in south east asia.

NK has always been a capitalist state

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Al Jazeera: a propaganda system owned by the greatest dictatorship ever to exist; Qatar, a despotic absolute monarchy, with no constitution, parliament and woman's rights whatsoever (unlike North Korea, which has them, at least formally), a television that is forbidden even to slightly criticise Qatari despot, and that gained notoriety for its reporting of Lybian civil war, showing islamist fundamentalist butchers who mimicked Hitler and wiped out Lybian black population from the face of earth as some romantic liberators and fighters for democracy, has the guts to criticise North Korea for its propaganda system. That is irony of the cosmical proportions.

What a bunch of wild exaggerations. Qatar is an autocracy but it is not the "greatest dictatorship ever to exist" and Libyan Blacks were persecuted horribly by militias but they were not "wiped from the face of the earth". And even al Jazeera eventually covered some of the persecution which went on. Al Jazeera should be criticized for its journalistic ethics and the fact that it is a tool of the Qatari state, not the proletariat, but if you criticize it like that without any sense of proportionality or intellectual honesty you just sound like you are ranting.



And before you accuse mo of being a supporter of North Korea, I'm not one of them. I just find it funny that people are so much obssesed about one tiny, poor country and their "propaganda", while there are far more troubling topics. For instance, US propaganda system. Just imagine power of indoctrination which it has over its own citizens, when it is able to convince them about existence of weapons of mass destruction that is located in a small third world country and is able to stir up entire nation in a war frenzy resulting in a invasion and death of over a million people and displacement of over five million. That is really worrying, but I doubt you will focus your ultra-left attention to that. First you spit on Cuba, showing “hungry” Cubans (on an island that according to UN has no hungry people present) arrested for diisent, than this shit. What’s next?
This is true, you have no argument here, but what frightens people is that there is no room for dissent within the North Korean propaganda scheme. Dissenters in the US are ignored and marginalized in the media, but they are denied existence altogether in the North Korean media. but then again we should look at the material conditions of this. Part of the cause at least is that in the US, the relative affluence allows the ruling class to create room for controlled dissent, whereas the relative poverty of North Korea makes dissent much harder to contain. Hence, heavy-handed propaganda is the easier solution for the DPRKs rulers.



Oh, yeah. You could put something about Europe “last dictatorship”, Lukashenko’s Belarus. That has been the favorite target of this forum ultra-leftists. Than we could all marwell at failed revolutions that dissapointed us and dream about perfect revolutions that will never come... :rolleyes:Lukashenko is not a revolutionary, so I don't see why talking about him would have anything to do with "failed revolutions"

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Oh, some imperialist propaganda from the media that ultra-leftists are jerking off about! So, what's new?

Also, I wish I could pop everyone of those fucking "truth" balloons. They are simply U.S. funded, South Korean vehicles for capitalist counter-propaganda with the goal of increasing the reach of U.S. imperialism in Asia.

[Ostrinski]

Oh, some imperialist propaganda from the media that ultra-leftists are jerking off about! So, what's new?I can say I honestly don't see any jerking off taking place itt.

[black magick hustla]

god my brain shrinks a little every time there is a dprk thread and the term bourgeois propaganda is used. it sometimes makes me think that internet marxism leninism is just a variant of right wing loony conspirationism except instead of reptoids you have the bourgeoise and the us

[Drosophila]

The North Korean government sucks, yes, there is no doubt about that.

But still, the way people from the outside view it can be really stupid. People see every cultural performance or work as some sort of state-controlled propaganda. Everyone seems to think that North Koreans are mindless robots being controlled by the state. A lot of this kind of thought is definitely rooted in racism.

[Prometeo liberado]

Just another callous imperialist hack piece. The truth is never this black and white, but something very much in between.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

god my brain shrinks a little every time there is a dprk thread and the term bourgeois propaganda is used. it sometimes makes me think that internet marxism leninism is just a variant of right wing loony conspirationism except instead of reptoids you have the bourgeoise and the us

Yeah, because the bourgeoisie and imperialism are made up, just like reptoids. They are not threat and should be ignored as conspiracy theories.

You sound like an idiot and actually are an idiot if you really think that the imperialist bourgeoisie isn't trying to spread propaganda in order to keep the working masses under its control and advocate for the expansion of imperialist powers.

[black magick hustla]

Yeah, because the bourgeoisie and imperialism are made up, just like reptoids. They are not threat and should be ignored as conspiracy theories.

the bourgeosie and imperialism are real, but the bourgeosie and imperialism that you talk about in your marxist leninist fairytales is as fantastic as reptoids.




You sound like an idiot and actually are an idiot if you really think that the imperialist bourgeoisie isn't trying to spread propaganda in order to keep the working masses under its control and advocate for the expansion of imperialist powers.

the ruling ideas are indeed the ones of the ruling class. but its pretty idiotic and simpleminded to think everything coming out from the university and the media is a big lie and there are isn't any truth in it. the truth is that if you go trhough the internet you can find blogs and statements and videos from people that have gone as tourists to the dprk and the conclusion in general is that it is a pretty bizarre state with the most outlandish and exaggerated personality cult. ascribing this to north korean cultural particularities is pretty lazy in my opinion. i don't see what is the point of the valiant anti imperialist crowd in trying to defend what is clearly a capitalist shithole, and take a side in bourgeois geopolitics.

but w/e man if you quote enver hoxha in your sig, who is from the same weirdo breed as the kims. im probably arguing against the equivalent of a wall

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

It's not that we deny everything the bourgeois imperialist sources tell us, it is just that we ensure that we do further research on the issues because we cannot trust people who have a huge and dangerous class agenda to force feed us our information and make us into good little capitalist idiots. At the same time, we are not like Glenn Beck, saying, " Don't ever trust the liberal media. They want to take away your guns and Bibles!!!!" Also, no one is really supporting North Korea as a good socialist state, we are simply attacking the bourgeois imperialist media machine.

[black magick hustla]

It's not that we deny everything the bourgeois imperialist sources tell us, it is just that we ensure that we do further research on the issues because we cannot trust people who have a huge and dangerous class agenda to force feed us our information and make us into good little capitalist idiots. At the same time, we are not like Glenn Beck, saying, " Don't ever trust the liberal media. They want to take away your guns and Bibles!!!!" Also, no one is really supporting North Korea as a good socialist state, we are simply attacking the bourgeois imperialist media machine.

this is a discussion forum. people discuss here what they feel like. every time someone tries to make a legitimate point about the dprk there comes the hordes of wwp/pslite zealots hawking about imperialist hacks. idk who do you support or not, but some of the wwp/pslite crowds here probably cried in their sleep when kim jung il died

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

this is a discussion forum. people discuss here what they feel like. every time someone tries to make a legitimate point about the dprk there comes the hordes of wwp/pslite zealots hawking about imperialist hacks. idk who do you support or not, but some of the wwp/pslite crowds here probably cried in their sleep when kim jung il died

You obviously don't know anything about Marxism-Leninism if you think we are all part of either the PSL or WWP and that we all cried when Kim Jung-Il died.Do you remember who else died that weekend? Havel. So, I was just like, "Oh look, the world lost an anti-communist asshole and a idiot that pretended to be a communist. We still won. No major loss to Marxism-Leninism." I did not shed one fucking tear.

[Blanquist]

You obviously don't know anything about Marxism-Leninism if you think we are all part of either the PSL or WWP and that we all cried when Kim Jung-Il died.Do you remember who else died that weekend? Havel. So, I was just like, "Oh look, the world lost an anti-communist asshole and a idiot that pretended to be a communist. We still won. No major loss to Marxism-Leninism." I did not shed one fucking tear.

The irony here is that ML died a long time ago...

[Rusty Shackleford]

You guys are ignoring the content of the report, like the masses of people crying once Kim jong il died? Wtf's up with that? In a socialist state there should be no cult of personality.

Kim jong ill being Hennesey's single largest importer of whiskey (and hookers) while his people starve is also another thing i'm not OK with, nor him exporting his workers to work in sweat shops.

The restoration to Capitalism will happen in NK, and it IS happening in NK as "free economic zones," are being created all throughout the country. This is what the Bourgeois press does not want you to know, but I read that NK has the lowest labor costs in south east asia.


first bold font, provide some evidence.


second bold, geography brah.

[Blanquist]

The North Korean government sucks, yes, there is no doubt about that.

But still, the way people from the outside view it can be really stupid. People see every cultural performance or work as some sort of state-controlled propaganda. Everyone seems to think that North Koreans are mindless robots being controlled by the state. A lot of this kind of thought is definitely rooted in racism.

That's funny because the NK regime is the most racist on the planet.

[Ismail]

but w/e man if you quote enver hoxha in your sig, who is from the same weirdo breed as the kims. im probably arguing against the equivalent of a wallWhat is a "weirdo breed"? How does one emerge from it? Because last time I checked Hoxha criticized Kim Il Sung, ridiculed Juche, attacked Kim's personality cult as unprecedented in any country calling itself "socialist," noted that the DPRK was indebted to the USA and USSR, and held a general distaste for national "socialisms" to begin with.

[Roach]

That's funny because the NK regime is the most racist on the planet.

Definetely not. I know that Juche sometimes praises the ''pure Korean ethnicity'' something reprehensible by all marxist-leninist standards, but that is nothing compared to countless campaings of racial exclusion in states other than North Korea. For example, the Israeli state is famously know for despising not only Arabs, but also non-ashkenazim jews, specially ethiopians, or European countries that constantly abuse gypsies, or the fact that most countries in the American continent still treat indigenous people like shit, and many, many other examples.

Just look at the situation of the Tamil people in Sri Lanka:

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/sri-lankas-killing-fields/4od

[Threetune]

An Al Jezeera piece on the North Korean propaganda system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_LhXEOsqoE&feature=g-u-u&context=G258b17aFUAAAAAAABAA


On the other side, have a look at South Korean democracy in action.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/8175512/Fight-erupts-in-South-Korean-parliament-over-free-school-meals.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/8175512/Fight-erupts-in-South-Korean-parliament-over-free-school-meals.html)

[Tim Cornelis]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]gained notoriety for its reporting of Lybian civil war, showing islamist fundamentalist butchers who mimicked Hitler and wiped out Lybian black population from the face of earth as some romantic liberators and fighters for democracy,

YNA8z5G-Xmk

The rest of your comment is just tu quoque.

[gorillafuck]

You obviously don't know anything about Marxism-Leninism if you think we are all part of either the PSL or WWP and that we all cried when Kim Jung-Il died.Do you remember who else died that weekend? Havel. So, I was just like, "Oh look, the world lost an anti-communist asshole and a idiot that pretended to be a communist. We still won. No major loss to Marxism-Leninism." I did not shed one fucking tear.he obviously does not literally think everyone in the WWP and PSL cried. point is that those parties are staunch supporters of Kim Jong Il though.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

he obviously does not literally think everyone in the WWP and PSL cried. point is that those parties are staunch supporters of Kim Jong Il though.

Yeah, but a lot of Marxist-Leninists are not members of those parties, including me.

[Lee Van Cleef]

The Marcyites aren't exactly the shining beacons of Marxism-Leninism. For that matter, neither is Stalin, Hoxha, Molotov, or anyone else. Marxism-Leninism is a development of Marxism as an analytical framework, and should be applied as such.

There's no need for us to go cheerleading for the Kim regime, Iran's Islamic state, or whatever other reactionary state, just because the capitalist media is saying mean things about them. Is Al-Jazeera hypocritical? Sure, but everyone already knew that. Just like everyone already knew that North Korea is a repressive society with a crude but intensive propaganda machine.

[Drosophila]

That's funny because the NK regime is the most racist on the planet.

I don't see how that's relevant.

[Rafiq]

Everywhere there is indocrination, such is a necessity for all Bourgeois society.

Many here in the U.S. don't realize the obvious: We laugh at how they call (Kim dynasty) glorious leader, because of it's absurdity.

But wait just a minute, are titles like "Leader of the Free World" and "Most powerful man on Earth" not similiar in nature? We don't know it, but our societies in the western world are just as ideologically obscure, dogmatic and "creepy" as North Korea.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

[Brosa Luxemburg]

Everywhere there is indocrination, such is a necessity for all Bourgeois society.

Many here in the U.S. don't realize the obvious: We laugh at how they call (Kim dynasty) glorious leader, because of it's absurdity.

But wait just a minute, are titles like "Leader of the Free World" and "Most powerful man on Earth" not similiar in nature? We don't know it, but our societies in the western world are just as ideologically obscure, dogmatic and "creepy" as North Korea.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

I wouldn't say they are as bad, but I get the point you are trying to make.

[Prometeo liberado]

he obviously does not literally think everyone in the WWP and PSL cried. point is that those parties are staunch supporters of Kim Jong Il though.

I dont know how many times this needs to be said but the PSL defends against imperialist aggression as should all people calling themselves a revolutionary socialist. I would like to see evidence of any PSL article extolling the beauty of the North Korean system. Some here like to pick and choose why and when they will oppose imperialism. The oppressed of the world don't have that luxury.

[black magick hustla]

I dont know how many times this needs to be said but the PSL defends against imperialist aggression as should all people calling themselves a revolutionary socialist. I would like to see evidence of any PSL article extolling the beauty of the North Korean system. Some here like to pick and choose why and when they will oppose imperialism. The oppressed of the world don't have that luxury.

the "opressed" in north korea don't have the luxury of "choice" cuz' the n. korean state doesn't ask for their consent when it sucks them dry of their surplus value to build one of the biggest militaries per capita in earth while people still have to rely on handouts given by charities and ngos.

[Ismail]

the "opressed" in north korea don't have the luxury of "choice" cuz' the n. korean state doesn't ask for their consent when it sucks them dry of their surplus value to build one of the biggest militaries per capita in earth while people still have to rely on handouts given by charities and ngos.Wouldn't the solution, then, be one that South Korean communists actually advocate? AKA for South Korean militarism to stop, for joint military exercises with the USA to stop, etc. of which the DPRK is obviously reacting to and its military bureaucracy able to gain from?

I mean Albania had a pretty large military too; nothing like the DPRK's, but Albania was in a technical "state of war" with Greece from the time of the Greco-Italian War (in the view of the Greek state anyway) until 1987, and feared a Soviet invasion in 1968 and a few years afterwards. Not to mention that, Greece being a NATO member, it obviously feared said organization going to war in the event of a Greek invasion as well. The main difference is that Albania adopted a "People's War" doctrine which basically required every Albanian from childhood onwards to learn how to use a gun and to train every month while ranks in the army were abolished and the armed forces made subordinate to the Party.

[Alfonso Cano]

the "opressed" in north korea don't have the luxury of "choice" cuz' the n. korean state doesn't ask for their consent when it sucks them dry of their surplus value to build one of the biggest militaries per capita in earth while people still have to rely on handouts given by charities and ngos.

And that military is built just for the sake of fun of North Korean leaders? Just because mentally deranged Kim-Jong-Un wants to have big toys he can play with?

Or is it because North Korea is threatened by the greatest imperialist power ever to exist, which has a nasty habit of invading other countries, including North Korea in 1950, which resulted in 3 million deaths. Not to mention invasions like Iraq which had costed 1 million lives and displaced 5 million. Taking into consideration such facts, is it not more logical to conclude that North Korea's huge army is a deterrent against possible aggresion by the US, rather than attempt by the "evil" North Korean leaders to keep their people in poverty.

It is not nice to be poor and suffer from malnutrition, but it is even worst to be dead, killed by US bombs and missiles, shot by US troops run amok, to see your home being destroyed by US bombers, the entire cities reduced to ruins and millions people being left homeless and displaced, as has happened to people's of Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya, whose states didn't "ask for their consent when it sucks them dry of their surplus value to build one of the biggest militaries per capita in earth"; and thus have condemned their population to mass imperialist butchering and enslavement by US multinational corporations. :rolleyes: