Allan West, Liberals are Communists.

[Anarcho-Brocialist]

This idiotic bastard asserted that liberals 'progressives' are Communists who changed their name.

“And I think that if you would take the time to study the political spectrum of ideologies, you’d understand that at the turn of the [20th] century, American Communists renamed themselves as progressives. If you study the Woodrow Wilson administration, people referred to the Woodrow Wilson administration as a progressive administration.” - Allan West

Anyone remember Woodrow Wilson? Well, during the first world war he had made it a crime to be a Socialist in America, and imprisoned many individuals who held pro-socialist rallies in public.

The biggest black mark against Wilson, was the assault on civil liberties dating from the United States’ entry into World War I, and it is this part of Woodrow Wilson that also speaks to our own time. The Espionage and Sedation Acts in 1917 and 1918 outlawed criticism of government policy, including—absurdly enough—anyone who obstructed the sale of liberty bonds. “By arousing public opinion to such a pitch of excitement,” writes George Tindall in America: A Narrative History, “the war effort channeled the crusading zeal of progressivism into grotesque campaigns of ‘Americanism’ and witch-hunting.” German books were banned from schools, German music from local auditoriums. Sauerkraut became “liberty cabbage.” Thousands of socialists, communists, unionists, and “suspicious” foreigners were arrested, some without warrants, and a number were imprisoned and deported.

Conservatives, once again, show their lack of acumen on leftist ideologies.

[Revolution starts with U]

"once again.." right? :lol:

Nothing new really. Liberalis caling anything left of themselves communists.

[chefdave]

The term 'liberal' or 'progressive' is a derogatory one used by right-wingers to describe Cultural Marxists. Cultural Marxists aren't Communists as such, in fact they may not even be aware they're espousing collectivists dogma, but they're certainly on the leftist/socialist/communist side of the ideological spectrum.

[roy]

The term 'liberal' or 'progressive' is a derogatory one used by right-wingers to describe Cultural Marxists. Cultural Marxists aren't Communists as such, in fact they may not even be aware they're espousing collectivists dogma, but they're certainly on the leftist/socialist/communist side of the ideological spectrum.

The thing is, though, liberals or 'progressives', if you will, aren't Marxists at all. There are worlds of difference between communists and liberals.

[chefdave]

The thing is, though, liberals or 'progressives', if you will, aren't Marxists at all. There are worlds of difference between communists and liberals.

Liberals are the sort of people who reject the 'socialist/communist' tag (because it's too political) and then go on to argue that private property doesn't exist because everything belongs to the state, i.e they've adopted left-wing 'commonsense' without really understanding where their views originated. Modern liberalism is a dangerous concoction of ignorance and bigotry.

[roy]

If they think everything belongs to the state, they are still worlds away from being communists. Anyway, no liberal I've ever heard of has rejected private property. It sounds as though you've been talking to some very odd closet-Stalinists or whatever, to be honest.

[GPDP]

Isn't Cultural Marxism a term almost exclusively used by the fascist right?

[Os Cangaceiros]

Isn't Cultural Marxism a term almost exclusively used by the fascist right?

yeah...I've seen Glenn Beck use it, too. But general it's just the usual troglodytes ranting about how the Frankfurt School brainwashed their kids with ZOG propaganda.

[chefdave]

If they think everything belongs to the state, they are still worlds away from being communists. Anyway, no liberal I've ever heard of has rejected private property. It sounds as though you've been talking to some very odd closet-Stalinists or whatever, to be honest.

It's probably unfair -on my behalf -to caricature a liberal and then beat the strawman up but in my experience liberals tend to share many opinions that are firmly rooted in leftist thought, i.e a rejection of the free market, the belief that the state has the moral right to confiscate private property at will, state interference in the civil sphere, enhanced -rather than equal- rights for minorities etc etc. Liberal progressives are lefties, even if they believe they're taking an apolitical 'caring' stance on everything from healthcare to immigration.

[Jimmie Higgins]

This idiotic bastard asserted that liberals 'progressives' are Communists who changed their name.

“And I think that if you would take the time to study the political spectrum of ideologies, you’d understand that at the turn of the [20th] century, American Communists renamed themselves as progressives. If you study the Woodrow Wilson administration, people referred to the Woodrow Wilson administration as a progressive administration.” - Allan West

Anyone remember Woodrow Wilson? Well, during the first world war he had made it a crime to be a Socialist in America, and imprisoned many individuals who held pro-socialist rallies in public.

The biggest black mark against Wilson, was the assault on civil liberties dating from the United States’ entry into World War I, and it is this part of Woodrow Wilson that also speaks to our own time. The Espionage and Sedation Acts in 1917 and 1918 outlawed criticism of government policy, including—absurdly enough—anyone who obstructed the sale of liberty bonds. “By arousing public opinion to such a pitch of excitement,” writes George Tindall in America: A Narrative History, “the war effort channeled the crusading zeal of progressivism into grotesque campaigns of ‘Americanism’ and witch-hunting.” German books were banned from schools, German music from local auditoriums. Sauerkraut became “liberty cabbage.” Thousands of socialists, communists, unionists, and “suspicious” foreigners were arrested, some without warrants, and a number were imprisoned and deported.

Conservatives, once again, show their lack of acumen on leftist ideologies.Yeah, red-scare/palmer raids, racial segregation of the federal government, and WWI... some radical eh.

This argument has been on the fringe-right for some time - usually taking the CPUS's platform from their popular-front pro-Democratic Party turn period and then drawing the similarities between these proposals and the post-war reforms that Democrats supported or, were passed at least, in the post-war era.

There is a grain of truth in the connection between radical and liberal politics in the US, but the right-wingers have it flipped. Many former-communists (often in the post-McCarthyism era where it was both harder to be openly radical and many radicals were disillusioned by the USSR and WWII in general) founded or helped found liberal institutions - they became union bureaucrats (many former CPers), became academics (New Left radicals), started reformist organizations that either began left-wing and became liberal or were liberal popular-front type groups. But while radical politics can give a movement on the upswing a radical backbone and core (like Occupy or the Civil Rights movement as it moved towards being a black power movement) when movements decline and general politics shift to the right many former radicals get pulled along with the tide. In other words, the relationship between radical politics and establishment liberalism, is not one of communists secretly moving things under the radar, but of co-option of popular or class movements and reforms. To look at the history of the CP and say that it has moved the Dems towards it more than it's moved towards liberal Democratic positions, is really to claim that the tale wags the dog.

[roy]

It's probably unfair -on my behalf -to caricature a liberal and then beat the strawman up but in my experience liberals tend to share many opinions that are firmly rooted in leftist thought, i.e a rejection of the free market, the belief that the state has the moral right to confiscate private property at will, state interference in the civil sphere, enhanced -rather than equal- rights for minorities etc etc. Liberal progressives are lefties, even if they believe they're taking an apolitical 'caring' stance on everything from healthcare to immigration.

Advocating universal healthcare is still a far cry from calling for working class revolution, is all.

[chefdave]

Isn't Cultural Marxism a term almost exclusively used by the fascist right?

I don't know who first coined the term but it's become part of libertarian's lexicon over recent years because it accurately describes a movement that at first glance seems disparate and incomprehesible. To answer your question I expect it is used by the far right. But using the term alone isn't enough make someone a fascist, in the same way that arguing for the re-nationalisation of certain key industries doesn't automatically make you a Marxist-Leninist. Perhaps a bit of an overreaction on your behalf?

[hatzel]

@chefdave:

The info thingy on your posts says you're English. Why, then, are you always just saying all the weird things that the American Right insists on saying, none of which is even remotely applicable to the political climate on this side of the Atlantic? Why does there seem to be such a fundamental disconnect between you and literally every other person in this country?

[chefdave]

@chefdave:

The info thingy on your posts says you're English. Why, then, are you always just saying all the weird things that the American Right insists on saying, none of which is even remotely applicable to the political climate on this side of the Atlantic? Why does there seem to be such a fundamental disconnect between you and literally every other person in this country?


The term liberal/progressive is an Americanism but the values of the liberal/progressive are virtually constant so ideologically there's not much difference between a British progressive and his American counterpart.

As the OP is talking about an American politician though I don't see why you're taking issue with references to the American right. What I'm saying is applicable to the thread topic.

[Per Levy]

cultural marxists, a term used by many rightists(from fash to new rights to libertarians) to call social dems, greens, liberals and so on commies. mostly cultural marxism is used to describe either that the political mainstream mindset is somewhat marxist or that certain policies like mulitculturalism are marxist.

if i remember right, anders breivik talked about cultural marxism and cultural marxists several times in his pamphlet.

its a stupid term invented solely for the reason to call non-commies commies.

[hatzel]

As the OP is talking about an American politician though I don't see why you're taking issue with references to the American right. What I'm saying is applicable to the thread topic so your criticisms are invalid.

I'm actually talking about your entire contribution to the forum, not just this particular thread...and a question is only a criticism if you take it as such...

[Veovis]

"Cultural Marxist" is a bankrupt term because the only people calling for worker-control and workplace democratization (i.e. real Marxism) are... well, real Marxists!

Other bourgeois left groups may have benefited historically from struggles that Marxists participated in, but other than that they have nothing to do with Marxism at all.

[chefdave]

I'm actually talking about your entire contribution to the forum, not just this particular thread...and a question is only a criticism if you take it as such...

That's great, but why are you bringing these 'questions' up in a thread based on U.S politics? It's seems like very unfortunate timing to me!

Tbh questions of this nature are probably best dealt with with a PM rather than in the middle of an interesting thread. It's unfair to the OP to derail his topic by introducing personal grievences that have no relevance here.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Liberals are the sort of people who reject the 'socialist/communist' tag (because it's too political) and then go on to argue that private property doesn't exist because everything belongs to the state
To be honest, I've never heard a liberal make that argument. Liberals tend to support a regulated free market and private property.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Liberal progressives are lefties
Compared to you, yes, but compared to actual communists they seem downright conservative.

[Crux]

cultural marxists, a term used by many rightists(from fash to new rights to libertarians) to call social dems, greens, liberals and so on commies. mostly cultural marxism is used to describe either that the political mainstream mindset is somewhat marxist or that certain policies like mulitculturalism are marxist.

if i remember right, anders breivik talked about cultural marxism and cultural marxists several times in his pamphlet.

its a stupid term invented solely for the reason to call non-commies commies.
It is also closely related to the idea of a left (or even marxist) domination of culture, media and academia. A post-1968 variant of the same old red scares and judeo-bolshevik conspiracies.

[Crux]

A related concept is "Political Correctness", which is essentially media and hegemony analysis as seen through the eyes of the far right, usually anyway. I'm always very insulted/amused when I am accused of being "pc". Ironically the idea of a "left wing elite" is more accepted by the establishment than say, the idea of abolishing private property.

[chefdave]

A related concept is "Political Correctness", which is essentially media and hegemony analysis as seen through the eyes of the far right, usually anyway. I'm always very insulted/amused when I am accused of being "pc". Ironically the idea of a "left wing elite" is more accepted by the establishment than say, the idea of abolishing private property.


I'm not sure what you mean by this. Political Correctness is a cultural phenomenom that is designed to prevent society from speaking frankly on issues through fear of causing offence. Instead of debating controversial topics honestly PC allows left-wingers to shut down the debate prematurely so the opinions of others are never heard. It's a great wheeze if it happens to protect your prejudices from criticism, but it's represents tyranny to those us who value outdated concepts such as freedom of speech.

[Crux]

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Political Correctness is a cultural phenomenom that is designed to prevent society from speaking frankly on issues through fear of causing offence. Instead of debating controversial topics honestly PC allows left-wingers to shut down the debate prematurely so the opinions of others are never heard. It's a great wheeze if it happens to protect your prejudices from criticism, but it's represents tyranny to those us who value outdated concepts such as freedom of speech.
And I happen to think the political discourse by and large are dominated by exactly the same people that whine about "political correctness". Racism, sexism and homophobia are still dominant. The capitalists still rule supreme. I say the latter because sometimes, although less commonly, accusations of "political correctness" also deals with economic issues.

[danyboy27]

Liberals are the sort of people who reject the 'socialist/communist' tag (because it's too political) and then go on to argue that private property doesn't exist because everything belongs to the state, i.e they've adopted left-wing 'commonsense' without really understanding where their views originated. Modern liberalism is a dangerous concoction of ignorance and bigotry.

Economic liberalism is the ideological belief in giving all people economic freedom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_freedom), and as such granting people with more basis to control their own lives and make their own mistakes.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_economy#cite_note-Adams-0) It is an economic philosophy that supports and promotes individual liberty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty) and choice in economic matters and private property (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_property) in the means of production. Although economic liberalism can be supportive of government regulation to a certain degree, it tends to oppose government intervention in the free market (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market) when it inhibits free trade and open competition, however it can also lead to the support of government intervention in order to remove private monopoly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly), as this limits the liberty of the poor. Economic liberalism emphasizes that people should make their own choices with their money, so long as it doesn't infringe on the liberty of others.

the only modern version of that thing is Neoliberalism, a political doctrine enabled by tatcher and reegan back in the 70s that failed miserably.

The ''liberals'' of today still believe in a liberal capitalist economic system, but with a fews state intervention here and there.

trust me, my country (canada) and my province was run by liberal for decades and beside some state intervention here and there those folks absolutely believe in economic liberalism, they are just not stupid enoough to think we could go back to the 1800s.

[chefdave]

And I happen to think the political discourse by and large are dominated by exactly the same people that whine about "political correctness". Racism, sexism and homophobia are still dominant. The capitalists still rule supreme. I say the latter because sometimes, although less commonly, accusations of "political correctness" also deals with economic issues.

To a certain extent Cultural Marxists have a vested interest in keeping the flames of inequality alive because it ensures their ideology remains relevent. Instead of accepting that the battle has been won: women have the vote, civil partnerships are a right and the homesexual age of consent has been lowered etc etc, they eek out new grievances to pretend there's still a job that needs doing. What was once an admirable movement has slowly descended into an illiberal farce as campaigners -who once fought for the right of minorities to be treated as equals- now want them treated differently under the guise of 'positiive discrimination' and the like. Despite what the left may believe racism, sexism and homophobia are no longer dominant mainstream positions: there's been a paradigm shift that has allowed professional leftists to overreact and create mountains out of molehills which gives the impression that racism etc is still a big problem.

[Anarcho-Brocialist]

"once again.." right? :lol:

Nothing new really. Liberalis caling anything left of themselves communists.

Obama is a Liberal, is he a Communist? JP Morgan, Citi Bank, Wells Fargo, Warren Buffet, etc should be pissed they blew away millions of dollars to support his campaign. I can't assimilate a contrast between Conservatives and Liberals.

[danyboy27]

To a certain extent Cultural Marxists have a vested interest in keeping the flames of inequality alive because it ensures their ideology remains relevent. Instead of accepting that the battle has been won: women have the vote, civil partnerships are a right and the homesexual age of consent has been lowered etc etc, they eek out new grievances to pretend there's still a job that needs doing. What was once an admirable movement has slowly descended into an illiberal farce as campaigners -who once fought for the right of minorities to be treated as equals- now want them treated differently under the guise of 'positiive discrimination' and the like. Despite what the left may believe racism, sexism and homophobia are no longer dominant mainstream positions: there's been a paradigm shift that has allowed professional leftists to overreact and create mountains out of molehills which gives the impression that racism etc is still a big problem.
Cultural marxist are not liberal and liberal are not cultural marxist, get over it.
Liberal dont even bother trying to understand the relation between the worker and the mean of production, how do you want these folks to use marxist theory to understand the cultural impact of capitalism on society?

You are beating a dead horse with nothing else to back your claim than hot air.

[Ostrinski]

Lol @ right-wingers who think we participate in this shit of a system

[Ostrinski]

Liberalism refers to the intellectual tradition that was in vogue during the Enlightenment and was influential in the revolutionary movements during this time. It is a bourgeois mode of thought in that it was developed during the emerging bourgeois epoch, when the bourgeoisie were dealing the ending blow to the remnants of feudal society. Key thinkers of this time were of course Locke, Rousseau, Voltaire, Paine, etc etc etc. But the fact of the matter is that progressives, conservatives, and libertarians are all ideological descendents of this movement (i.e. they are all liberals). They still hold true to the concepts of social contract, ethics as a methodology, idealism, analysis of human rights, republicanism, market capitalism amongst many other ideas that were developed upon during the Enlightenment and thereafter.

We regard liberals as enemies of the working class conquest of power because they operate within a realm of thought antithetical to the destruction of capitalist society. Marxists have shed all reservations for most of these Enlightenment concepts because they understand all ideological trends only serve to legitimize the mode of production and class hegemony under a given mode of production.

So in short, my fellow libertarian, don't give yourself too much credit, for we regard you and progressives as two elements of the same poison.

[marl]

words words words words words
Racism, sexism, and general xenophobia is still a fucking huge problem, sorry you can't see it in in your backyard.

[Crux]

To a certain extent Cultural Marxists have a vested interest in keeping the flames of inequality alive because it ensures their ideology remains relevent.
That is absurd idealist nonsense and you know it. Or maybe not.


Instead of accepting that the battle has been won: women have the vote, civil partnerships are a right and the homesexual age of consent has been lowered etc etc, they eek out new grievances to pretend there's still a job that needs doing. What was once an admirable movement has slowly descended into an illiberal farce as campaigners -who once fought for the right of minorities to be treated as equals- now want them treated differently under the guise of 'positiive discrimination' and the like. Despite what the left may believe racism, sexism and homophobia are no longer dominant mainstream positions: there's been a paradigm shift that has allowed professional leftists to overreact and create mountains out of molehills which gives the impression that racism etc is still a big problem. Thanks for giving a good example of my point. Women have the vote, clearly feminism is irrelevant. :rolleyes: Ah yes the indignation of middle and upper class, straight, white males. Racism, sexism and homophobia are still dominant, the only reason you do not see it is because it probably does not affect you directly and of course because you are busy trying to protect your own interests, which in turn gives rise to your illusions. The thing is though these illusions have always been the same, from decade to decade. Every step forward has been a step too far for some.

[chefdave]

Racism, sexism, and general xenophobia is still a fucking huge problem, sorry you can't see it in in your backyard.

Not really, not in the liberal West at any rate. The sort of 'horrific' racism/sexism we experience now is someone calling somebody else a nasty name, then the state locks them up for hate crimes. Yes the balance of power has definitely tipped in favour of the left and chosen minority groups.

[#FF0000]

Not really, not in the liberal West at any rate. The sort of 'horrific' racism/sexism we experience now is someone calling somebody else a nasty name, then the state locks them up for hate crimes. Yes the balance of power has definitely tipped in favour of the left and chosen minority groups.

Schools in America are more segregated than they were when Jim Crow was established. Black kids get the poorest, most run down schools, generally. In New York City, 80% of people who are stopped by police according to their new stop-and-frisk policy have been black or hispanic. In courts, black people are more likely to be given harsher sentences than white people for the same crimes.

Multiple studies have shown that 100% of women (at least in the major cities) have experienced some sort of harassment on the streets. Women are still paid less than men for the same work. People still try and excuse rape or place the blame partially on the woman for rape if she was drunk, or for what she was wearing, or for her sexual history. Girls generally do better than boys do in school and in testing when it comes to maths and sciences, but in adulthood, few go into these fields and are instead funneled into low-paying jobs which happen to traditionally be considered "women's work"

Basically you're wrong.

[#FF0000]

Instead of debating controversial topics...

Topics such as?

[danyboy27]

Not really, not in the liberal West at any rate. The sort of 'horrific' racism/sexism we experience now is someone calling somebody else a nasty name, then the state locks them up for hate crimes. Yes the balance of power has definitely tipped in favour of the left and chosen minority groups.

increase in rate crime in canada,
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/06/07/hate-crimes-statscan.html

mosque firebombing a fews month ago in new-york
http://digitaljournal.com/article/317121

last year story about a bomb found at MLK parade
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/mlk-parade-pipe-bomb-race-connection-inescapable-fbi/story?id=12645649

the recent rambling of arizona racist policies
http://gawker.com/5529320/the-racist-hate-group-behind-arizonas-new-immigration-law

santorum sexist attitude toward women right to privacy.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/15/rick-santorum-contraception-birth-control-women_n_1279944.html

you bring me baseless assumptions, i bring you facts.

[danyboy27]

Mexico migrant beaten to death by us law enforcement personnal in 2010
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/323436

clearly racism isnt limited to ''calling other people names''

[Krano]

And how can we forget Santorum and Gays in the military.

XrZtlnsBq_Y

[danyboy27]

Alexander the great and a lot of greek warriors where gay.

does these people even know how to read?

[Strannik]

For me that general rule of thumb is that anyone for whom the distinction between "individualism" and "collectivism" makes any sense is certainly some brand of bourgeoise.

For a communist this distinction does not make any sense for the ties between "individual" and "collective" are so many and varied, that an attempt to hold them apart of give more value to one of them is a waste of time.

[Doflamingo]

Silly liberals are a bit confused.

[RGacky3]

What the hell is this cultural marxism, its only a smear term from the right wing, it has NO connection to actual marxism.

BTW, whenever a right winger complains about political correctness, 9 times out of 10 its just him wanting to say something and have the privilege of not being called out on it, or not have any responsibility for what he says.

If you say something racist, and then your called a racist, or taken off the air (because guess what the airwaves are public and most people don't want to hear your racist ass), thats not political correctness, its you being responsible for your words.

As far as Allan West, the guy is a clown and always has been, he's basically the Glenn Beck of the House.

[Rafiq]

Chefdave, you coward, respond to Brospierre.

I love how right wingers jump in threads, input some bullshit, get destroyed, and move on to another thread to repeat the process.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

[NewLeft]

They misrepresent Gramsci's observations on the reactionary role of the church in Italy, they claim that its an attack on Christianity, when in fact it's an attack on bourgeois morality that justifies their system. They don't like admitting that their glorious founding fathers were indeed prejudiced. If anything, they are the real censors who do not want us to address these issues, but rather want us to keep quiet and accept their mantra about America and how great it is..
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/03/welcome_to_the_machine_cultura.html

[l'Enfermé]

The term 'liberal' or 'progressive' is a derogatory one used by right-wingers to describe Cultural Marxists. Cultural Marxists aren't Communists as such, in fact they may not even be aware they're espousing collectivists dogma, but they're certainly on the leftist/socialist/communist side of the ideological spectrum.
"Cultural Marxists",...hahahaha, an Anders Breivik fan are you?

[chefdave]

"Cultural Marxists",...hahahaha, an Anders Breivik fan are you?

No. But it sounds like you might be, I'm sure you'll be capitalising off the back of his actions for quite some time by smugly labelling anyone who's vaguely concerned with Cultural Marxism as a Breivik sympathiser/fan etc.

[o well this is ok I guess]

Hey guys who is your favourite Frankfurt Theorist
Mine is Marcuse cuz political correctness

[Revolution starts with U]

Anybody who uses the term "cultural marxism" just really shows that they are either

1) Completely misunderstand Marxism

2) Are ignorant of Marxism

or

3) Are full of shit

[chefdave]

Anybody who uses the term "cultural marxism" just really shows that they are either

1) Completely misunderstand Marxism

2) Are ignorant of Marxism

or

3) Are full of shit


As I explained above Cultural Marxism isn't the same thing as actual Marxism, indeed that's the whole point of CM: it's a process that covertly introduces Marxist concepts into societies that have outwardly rejected Marx's theories. Put it this way, if someone called me a Cultural Capitalist because I supported a raft of related social policies that put the individual before the collective I wouldn't complain as it would be a fair description of my beliefs, so why do leftists have hard time accepting the perfectly reasonable term Cultural Marxist? Nobody is saying Marxism, it's a related school of thought that is trying to achieve cultural hegemony.

[RGacky3]

As I explained above Cultural Marxism isn't the same thing as actual Marxism, indeed that's the whole point of CM: it's a process that covertly introduces Marxist concepts into societies that have outwardly rejected Marx's theories.

What Marxist concepts????

Marxism is an analysis of capitalist production and distribution, i.e. how it works.

Its like Saying Cultural-Keynsianism ... It just sounds rediculous.


Put it this way, if someone called me a Cultural Capitalist because I supported a raft of related social policies that put the individual before the collective I wouldn't complain as it would be a fair description of my beliefs, so why do leftists have hard time accepting the perfectly reasonable term Cultural Marxist? Nobody is saying Marxism, it's a related school of thought that is trying to achieve cultural hegemony.

If someone called you a Cultural Capitalist, I would call that person an idiot for putting 2 words together that have nothing to do with each other.

Capitalism is a way to organize production and distribution of resources (i.e. an economic structure)

Culture is a whole different thing, does economics and culture effect each other? Sure, but calling someone a Cultural capitalist does'nt make any sense, unless of coarse that person owns a company that produces and distributes culture ...

[OnlyCommunistYouKnow]

Laugh out loud.

[chefdave]

What Marxist concepts????

Marxism is an analysis of capitalist production and distribution, i.e. how it works.

Its like Saying Cultural-Keynsianism ... It just sounds rediculous.

Marxism isn't only an 'impartial' economic analysis of industrialised society, it's also part religion, part prophecy and an ideology that espouses collectivist controls over the individual. CM's aren't Marxists proper, but they've bought into this ideal of state oversight and intrusion in all areas of our lives to make sure the "bourgeois" aren't disenfranchising anyone.



If someone called you a Cultural Capitalist, I would call that person an idiot for putting 2 words together that have nothing to do with each other.

Capitalism is a way to organize production and distribution of resources (i.e. an economic structure)

Culture is a whole different thing, does economics and culture effect each other? Sure, but calling someone a Cultural capitalist does'nt make any sense, unless of coarse that person owns a company that produces and distributes culture ...

Semantics. It's a term that accurately conveys a person's ideological persuasion, a CM -generally speaking- is someone who's staunchly anti-American, pro immigration (or at least sceptical of those who argue against mass immigration), concerned about global warming, obsessed with equality, welfare and human rights blah blah blah blah blah. A collectivist in other words. Some of these things spill over into economics but they're not a direct result of economic analysis.

[RGacky3]

Marxism isn't only an 'impartial' economic analysis of industrialised society, it's also part religion, part prophecy and an ideology that espouses collectivist controls over the individual. CM's aren't Marxists proper, but they've bought into this ideal of state oversight and intrusion in all areas of our lives to make sure the "bourgeois" aren't disenfranchising anyone.


Where does Marx talk about collectivist control over the individual???

How is it religion? Is Adam Smith a religion? Also prophecy???

Where did marx expouse state oversight and intursion in any areas of life?

What Marx have you read???

Marx's main work, i.e. Kapital 1, 2 and 3 is basically 100% analysis of capitalism.


Semantics. It's a term that accurately conveys a person's ideological persuasion, a CM -generally speaking- is someone who's staunchly anti-American, pro immigration (or at least sceptical of those who argue against mass immigration), concerned about global warming, obsessed with equality, welfare and human rights blah blah blah blah blah. A collectivist in other words. Some of these things spill over into economics but they're not a direct result of economic analysis.

It does'nt accurately convey anything because there is nothing Marxist about it.

btw, since your ripping on collectivism whats more collectivist than being Patriotic and anti-immigration???

Concern about global warming just basically means paying attention to science.

equality is such a broad term its basically meaningless.

Welfare is economic

Most people are concerned about human rights ...

If they are not the result of economic analysis stop using dumb terms like Cultural Marxism which is NOTHING MORE than an attempt by right wing pundits to scare stupid people using cold war predjudices, and you are proving that you are one of those stupid people who buy it dispite not knowing the first thing about Marxism.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Not really, not in the liberal West at any rate. The sort of 'horrific' racism/sexism we experience now is someone calling somebody else a nasty name, then the state locks them up for hate crimes. Yes the balance of power has definitely tipped in favour of the left and chosen minority groups.

europesay.txt

[#FF0000]

Marxism isn't only an 'impartial' economic analysis of industrialised society, it's also part religion, part prophecy and an ideology that espouses collectivist controls over the individual. CM's aren't Marxists proper, but they've bought into this ideal of state oversight and intrusion in all areas of our lives to make sure the "bourgeois" aren't disenfranchising anyone.

Dogg you barely even understand regular marxism so I doubt you're the guy to ask about nefarious, super-secret 'cultural marxists' anyway.


Semantics. It's a term that accurately conveys a person's ideological persuasion, a CM -generally speaking- is someone who's staunchly anti-American

What does it mean to be 'anti-american'?


concerned about global warming

Top on the list of cultural marxists -- virtually every scientist.


human rights

As opposed to giving no fucks about human rights which is better or something? Caring about how others are treated makes one a cultural marxist?

To be honest it's sounding like anyone who is left-of-center is then a 'cultural marxist'. Seems like dumb baby red-baiting to me.

[danyboy27]

As I explained above Cultural Marxism isn't the same thing as actual Marxism, indeed that's the whole point of CM: it's a process that covertly introduces Marxist concepts into societies that have outwardly rejected Marx's theories. Put it this way, if someone called me a Cultural Capitalist because I supported a raft of related social policies that put the individual before the collective I wouldn't complain as it would be a fair description of my beliefs, so why do leftists have hard time accepting the perfectly reasonable term Cultural Marxist? Nobody is saying Marxism, it's a related school of thought that is trying to achieve cultural hegemony.

hoo great, another conspiracy theorist.
and just like any conspiracy theorist you dont have anything of substance to backup your claim that there are a bunch of liberal secretly trying to implement marxist idea into society.

http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/upload/2009/04/weekend_diversion_do_tinfoil_h/tinfoil-hat.jpg

[danyboy27]

lol i just noticed you used the term cultural hegemony.

[chefdave]

hoo great, another conspiracy theorist.
and just like any conspiracy theorist you dont have anything of substance to backup your claim that there are a bunch of liberal secretly trying to implement marxist idea into society.

http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/upload/2009/04/weekend_diversion_do_tinfoil_h/tinfoil-hat.jpg


Yawn. I never said it was a conspiracy, those are your words not mine. I'm using Cultural Marxism as a term to describe those who have perhaps unwittingly bought into a left-wing analysis of society's problems and subsequently support leftist solutions. Say if a child had been brought up in a right-wing family (who for arguments sake supported all of the things I do) and therefore became staunchly right-wing, I'd still consider that child to be a bit indoctrinated because they hadn't acquired their worldview independently after critical though, their ideology had been served up to them on a plate by a biased 3rd party. That's how I see CM's. They have a hard time distinguishing between leftist ideology and objective reality because Western culture is laced with collectivist anti right-wing dogma.

[#FF0000]

They have a hard time distinguishing between leftist ideology and objective reality because Western culture is laced with collectivist anti right-wing dogma.

But i thought cultural marxists wanted to destroy western culture

[NewLeft]

Yawn. I never said it was a conspiracy, those are your words not mine. I'm using Cultural Marxism as a term to describe those who have perhaps unwittingly bought into a left-wing analysis of society's problems and subsequently support leftist solutions. Say if a child had been brought up in a right-wing family (who for arguments sake supported all of the things I do) and therefore became staunchly right-wing, I'd still consider that child to be a bit indoctrinated because they hadn't acquired their worldview independently after critical though, their ideology had been served up to them on a plate by an impartial 3rd party. That's how I see CM's. They have a hard time distinguishing between leftist ideology and objective reality because Western culture is laced with collectivist anti right-wing dogma.
I am a cultural collectivist leftist anti-right wing dogmatic marxist, tell me where you live because I want to eat you and your babies.

[NewLeft]

As I explained above Cultural Marxism isn't the same thing as actual Marxism, indeed that's the whole point of CM: it's a process that covertly introduces Marxist concepts into societies that have outwardly rejected Marx's theories. Put it this way, if someone called me a Cultural Capitalist because I supported a raft of related social policies that put the individual before the collective I wouldn't complain as it would be a fair description of my beliefs, so why do leftists have hard time accepting the perfectly reasonable term Cultural Marxist? Nobody is saying Marxism, it's a related school of thought that is trying to achieve cultural hegemony.
Have you even read Gramsci?

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

:lol: to the right-winger trying to win the 'cultural marxism' debate

[chefdave]

Dogg you barely even understand regular marxism so I doubt you're the guy to ask about nefarious, super-secret 'cultural marxists' anyway.

Tbh I think this says more about the contradictory nature of Marxism than my understanding of it. I won't bother trying to pin down exactly what it is because I'm well aware that this is a trap used by Marxists to fluster the opposition.



What does it mean to be 'anti-american'?Hmmm. Someone who doesn't understand the term anti-American shouldn't really be dishing out lectures on what is and isn't Marxism. :lol:



Top on the list of cultural marxists -- virtually every scientist.ROFL. I just knew you'd be into the Al Gore's version of global warming. Classic CM territory.



As opposed to giving no fucks about human rights which is better or something? Caring about how others are treated makes one a cultural marxist?CM's don't really support universal human rights they support identity rights, i.e if you're in the correct group (female, immigrant, Muslim, gay etc) you'll receive unconditional support for an enhanced set of rights to compensate for the supposed structual inequalities that hold your group back.


To be honest it's sounding like anyone who is left-of-center is then a 'cultural marxist'. Seems like dumb baby red-baiting to me.Pfft. This doesn't even merit a reply.

[chefdave]

Have you even read Gramsci?

Nope.

[danyboy27]

Yawn. I never said it was a conspiracy, those are your words not mine. I'm using Cultural Marxism as a term to describe those who have perhaps unwittingly bought into a left-wing analysis of society's problems and subsequently support leftist solutions. Say if a child had been brought up in a right-wing family (who for arguments sake supported all of the things I do) and therefore became staunchly right-wing, I'd still consider that child to be a bit indoctrinated because they hadn't acquired their worldview independently after critical though, their ideology had been served up to them on a plate by an impartial 3rd party. That's how I see CM's. They have a hard time distinguishing between leftist ideology and objective reality because Western culture is laced with collectivist anti right-wing dogma.
and who would be those people who propagate the evil ''cultural marxism'' trought the population?

btw this is absolutely ridiculous to say that the western culture is laced with collectivist anti right-wing dogma, western culture is based on individualist right wing dogma of personnal responsability, free market, privatization and capitalism.

England, america, france, germany, the fondation of these nations have all been laid old by old rich white men who at their verry interest at heart from the begining.

Dont believe me?

http://www.dangerouscreation.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/founding-fathers.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1990-023-06A,_Otto_von_Bismarck.jpg/220px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1990-023-06A,_Otto_von_Bismarck.jpg

http://giftconcordance.pbworks.com/FCKeditor/build-fck/editor/f/page03.jpg

[Revolutionair]

ROFL. I just knew you'd be into the Al Gore's version of global warming. Classic CM territory.


CM's don't really support universal human rights they support identity rights, i.e if you're in the correct group (female, immigrant, Muslim, gay etc) you'll receive unconditional support for an enhanced set of rights to compensate for the supposed structual inequalities that hold your group back.

Please source all of these claims.

[chefdave]

But i thought cultural marxists wanted to destroy western culture

They certainly want to see what little freedom we have left confiscated by an omnipotent state because individualist freedom amounts to the freedom to starve and freedom to discriminate against minorities. Therefore it must be outlawed in favour benevolent collectivism.

[Franz Fanonipants]

what the shit is going on in this thread and why are we engaging with a stealth fascist

[Revolutionair]

He seems more like a confused idiot than a stealth fascist.

[chefdave]

He seems more like a confused idiot than a stealth fascist.

Thanks for rushing to my defence! :lol:

[NewLeft]

They certainly want to see what little freedom we have left confiscated by an omnipotent state because individualist freedom amounts to the freedom to starve and freedom to discriminate against minorities. Therefore it must be outlawed in favour benevolent collectivism.
How is my freedom to starve being confiscated by the state?

[Franz Fanonipants]

He seems more like a confused idiot than a stealth fascist.

idk basically i'm sure he's also pretty worried about islamofascism too and combine that with this cultural marxism shit and what i would assume is an "anti-multiculturalism" position and basically you've got what fascists look like today in age

for all of revleft's terror at fascism, you guys aren't very good at putting the pieces together

[#FF0000]

Tbh I think this says more about the contradictory nature of Marxism than my understanding of it.

What contradictory nature of Marxism are you talking about?


I won't bother trying to pin down exactly what it is because I'm well aware that this is a trap used by Marxists to fluster the opposition.

Expecting you to know what you're talking about is a trap?


Hmmm. Someone who doesn't understand the term anti-American shouldn't really be dishing out lectures on what is and isn't Marxism

Nah I'm just curious as to what it means to be anti-American. I hear the term plenty from people caught up in hysterics and I've never even once gotten anyone to actually define what, exactly, constitutes "anti-American".


ROFL. I just knew you'd be into the Al Gore's version of global warming. Classic CM territory.

I don't know anything about "Al Gore's version of global warming", but I do know that the scientific community does believe that the climate is changing, that the global temperature is rising.


CM's don't really support universal human rights they support identity rights, i.e if you're in the correct group (female, immigrant, Muslim, gay etc) you'll receive unconditional support for an enhanced set of rights to compensate for the supposed structual inequalities that hold your group back.

What 'enhanced rights' are you talking about, specifically?


Pfft. This doesn't even merit a reply.

Why not? Can you name anyone who is left-wing that isn't a 'cultural marxist'? How is it any different from calling everyone right-of-center a 'crypto-fascist'?

[chefdave]

idk basically i'm sure he's also pretty worried about islamofascism too and combine that with this cultural marxism shit and what i would assume is an "anti-multiculturalism" position and basically you've got what fascists look like today in age

for all of revleft's terror at fascism, you guys aren't very good at putting the pieces together

I'm a UKIP supporter, if I was in America I'd almost certainly be a Teabagger. I'm not really sure if you can call either of these movements "fascist" but if supporting a small state with a commitment to universal human rights makes me the next Adolf Hitler then so be it. And yes, like most UKIPers I'm strongly opposed to multi-culturalism, mass immigration and Islamification because I find it very hard to identify with many foreign practices and traditions. I don't think they add any value to the UK so I see no harm in advocating an end to the multi-culturalist experiment.

[hatzel]

ITT: people who should just stop posting in this thread because this whole 'discussion' really isn't worth having any more it's clearly never going to get anywhere...

[#FF0000]

I don't think they add any value to the UK so I see no harm in advocating an end to the multi-culturalist experiment.

But mutli-culturalism isn't a policy or an experiment. it's pretty much just a fact of life and has been since humans could walk from one place to the next.

[Revolutionair]

the multi-culturalist experiment.

Calling it an experiment means that people proposed it as an experiment, that there are people taking notes who are conducting the experiment. Please give sources to prove who all these people are, so we all know that the modern society is indeed the result of a massive experiment.

[Conscript]

It's amazing some people actually buy into this 'cultural marxism' crap. That's just fucking pathetic and a sign of immense dishonesty (and of course this fear mongering, red baiting BS is coming from the right).

I guess ill just take after this guy start calling anything to the right of me 'cultural nazism'.

[chefdave]

How is my freedom to starve being confiscated by the state?

I think you misunderstand, individual freedom to Marxists and CM's alike is synonymous with the freedom to starve. Therefore it's the state's job to eradicate this evil and replace it with a proletariat-friendly socialist alternative. Freedom = slavery.

[Krano]

I'm a UKIP supporter, if I was in America I'd almost certainly be a Teabagger. I'm not really sure if you can call either of these movements "fascist" but if supporting a small state with a commitment to universal human rights makes me the next Adolf Hitler then so be it. And yes, like most UKIPers I'm strongly opposed to multi-culturalism, mass immigration and Islamification because I find it very hard to identify with many foreign practices and traditions. I don't think they add any value to the UK so I see no harm in advocating an end to the multi-culturalist experiment.
Didn't you just say that human rights are a cultural marxist plot? :lol:

[#FF0000]

Therefore it's the state's job

no

[Revolutionair]

I think you misunderstand, individual freedom to Marxists and CM's alike is synonymous with the freedom to starve. Therefore it's the state's job to eradicate this evil and replace it with a proletariat-friendly socialist alternative.

Please prove this.


Freedom = slavery.

Quoting George Orwell against socialists?

[chefdave]

Didn't you just say that human rights are a cultural marxist plot? :lol:

IIRC I used the term "human rights" and deliberately left out the universal part. It's unfortunate that I feel the need to make this distinction, but the modern day human rights industry and their cheerleaders seem to support a lopsided version of rights that give minorities privileged treatment at the expense of everybody else. By defintion these rights are not universal.

[Krano]

IIRC I used the term "human rights" and deliberately left out the universal part. It's unfortunate that I feel the need to make this distinction, but the modern day human rights industry and their cheerleaders seem to support a lopsided version of rights that give minorities privileged treatment at the expense of everybody else.
I thinks Stormfront would understand you better then we ever could.

[#FF0000]

IIRC I used the term "human rights" and deliberately left out the universal part. It's unfortunate that I feel the need to make this distinction, but the modern day human rights industry and their cheerleaders seem to support a lopsided version of rights that give minorities privileged treatment at the expense of everybody else. By defintion these rights are not universal.

I hope you're gonna get to listing some specific ones and how they are given at the expense of anyone else

[chefdave]

I thinks Stormfront would understand you better then we ever could.

In what parallel universe does the concept of the same rules and treatment for all amount to unremitting racism? I suppose we should give some groups of people enhanced rights based on nothing more than their colour and collective history should we? Where's the facepalm icon?

[Per Levy]

It's unfortunate that I feel the need to make this distinction, but the modern day human rights industry and their cheerleaders seem to support a lopsided version of rights that give minorities privileged treatment at the expense of everybody else

please tell me what those "rights" are that "benefit" minorities at the "expense of everybody else", that would be interisting to know.

[chefdave]

I hope you're gonna get to listing some specific ones and how they are given at the expense of anyone else

Ok then, how about Diane Abbott? She has a history of blurting out overtly racist comments against white people yet as a Black female socialist she never even lost her job in the shadow cabinet after making racially offensive remarks on Twitter. Compare this with the case of Liam Stacey, a white undergraduate who was jailed for 56 days for verbally abusing a black footballer on the same social networking site. Society as a whole is prepared to be more lenient with some people due to nothing more than their sex/skin colour etc. I can give you more examples too if you're unsatisfied with this one.

[danyboy27]

Ok then, how about Diane Abbott? She has a history of blurting out overtly racist comments against white people yet as a Black female socialist she never even lost her job in the shadow cabinet after making racially offensive remarks on Twitter. Compare this with the case of Liam Stacey, a white undergraduate who was jailed for 56 days for verbally abusing a black footballer on the same social networking site. Society as a whole is prepared to be more lenient with some people due to nothing more than their sex/skin colour etc. I can give you more examples too if you're unsatisfied with this one.

what about nick griffin?

[#FF0000]

words

I can immediately see a difference between those two cases where one person made some big dumb generalization and the other is attacking a person specifically. I don't know the details, either way, but this seems like a hella silly example.

But again this isn't really what I asked. Are these 'enhanced rights' something written down on paper or what?

[hatzel]

For those who aren't British, Diane Abbott's disgusting racist comments include such outrageous stuff like 'cabbies don't always stop for black people.' Sickening racism on her part...

[#FF0000]

For those who aren't British, Diane Abbott's disgusting racist comments include such outrageous stuff like 'cabbies don't always stop for black people.' Sickening racism on her part...

lol

[danyboy27]

I can immediately see a difference between those two cases where one person made some big dumb generalization and the other is attacking a person specifically. I don't know the details, either way, but this seems like a hella silly example.

But again this isn't really what I asked. Are these 'enhanced rights' something written down on paper or what?

You dont get it man, its those evil cultural marxist collectivist fifth columnist who have been brainwashing our society into believing such a things.

And lee harvey oswald was killed by fidel castro himself.

[Per Levy]

Tbh I think this says more about the contradictory nature of Marxism than my understanding of it. I won't bother trying to pin down exactly what it is because I'm well aware that this is a trap used by Marxists to fluster the opposition.

so lets get this straight, you cant explain what "culutural marxism" is and you have no idea of marxism, yet still you use this useless phrase as it had any worth. probally sucks to be on a forum full with actual marxixts who know what marxism is and give you shit for your pathetic defence of "cultural marxism".


Hmmm. Someone who doesn't understand the term anti-American shouldn't really be dishing out lectures on what is and isn't Marxism. :lol:

how are the 2 related? besides he wanted to know your defenition of anti-americanism.

[danyboy27]

cultural marxist is the right wing version of the word kulak.

you can basically use it to push people out of your way at will!

''this fellow dosnt look right''
cultural marxism.

''what is is saying dosnt fit my ideology''
cultural marxism.

''some black people ask for more employement''
cultural marxism.

its a soundbite to shut down any attempt to talk about the left.

[chefdave]

what about nick griffin?

Like a lot of people who argue against mass immigration Griffin has learned to avoid leftist banana-skins and be very specific with his terminology lest he gets branded a 'racist' by his plethora of critics. It's inevitable anyway tbh, but when I've seen him on the BBC for example he's been very careful to qualify his opinions with statements you'd be hard pushed to describe as racist. Although he's made a couple of incredibly stupid gaffes (i.e denying the holocaust) I don't recall him saying anything overtly racist. Please provide links if you have evidence to the contrary.

[#FF0000]

basically anyone calling themselves a nationalist in the 21st century is more than likely a bigot of some kind.

[Revolutionair]

chefdave, you still have not sourced/proven any of the claims I asked you to source/prove.

[chefdave]

basically anyone calling themselves a nationalist in the 21st century is a bigot of some kind.

It sounds like someone needs a dictionary. Do you actually know what the term 'bigot' means? I'll give you a clue, it's not a horrid fascist right-winger.

[danyboy27]

Like a lot of people who argue against mass immigration Griffin has learned to avoid leftist banana-skins and be very specific with his terminology lest he gets branded a 'racist' by his plethora of critics. It's inevitable anyway tbh, but when I've seen him on the BBC for example he's been very careful to qualify his opinions with statements you'd be hard pushed to describe as racist. Although he's made a couple of incredibly stupid gaffes (i.e denying the holocaust) I don't recall him saying anything overtly racist. Please provide links if you have evidence to the contrary.

he is obviously not a racist indeed, that meeting with the kkk leader back in 2009 had nothing to do with race obviously.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/6410324/Nick-Griffin-met-US-head-of-Ku-Klux-Klan.html

[chefdave]

chefdave, you still have not sourced/proven any of the claims I asked you to source/prove.

How am I supposed to prove or source the collective impression left-wingers have left on me over the years? Yet another red herring worthy of nothing but contempt.

[danyboy27]

How am I supposed to prove or source the collective impression left-wingers have left on me over the years? Yet another red herring worthy of nothing but contempt.

Impression are not fact, and therefore useless to prove anything of substance.

[chefdave]

he is obviously not a racist indeed, that meeting with the kkk leader back in 2009 had nothing to do with race obviously.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/6410324/Nick-Griffin-met-US-head-of-Ku-Klux-Klan.html

Which racist comment of his do you take issue with in particular? Please quote verbatim so this board can see what a despicable man Griffin is.

[Per Levy]

How am I supposed to prove or source the collective impression left-wingers have left on me over the years? Yet another red herring worthy of nothing but contempt.

so, you dont want to actually give sources that would back up your many many claims in this thread?

[#FF0000]

It sounds like someone needs a dictionary. Do you actually know what the term 'bigot' means? I'll give you a clue, it's not a horrid fascist right-winger.

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that there is that if someone describes themselves as a nationalist in the 21st century, there is a strong chance that they are also a bigot.


Which racist comment of his do you take issue with in particular? Please quote verbatim so this board can see what a despicable man Griffin is.

Pretty sure his meeting with the KKK was him giving a lecture on how to market racism in the present day. Either way I don't think what he said even really matters when he is accepting speaking engagements with the ku klux klan

[danyboy27]

Which racist comment of his do you take issue with in particular? Please quote verbatim so this board can see what a despicable man Griffin is.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8321683.stm

Mr Griffin said the colour was "irrelevant" and said Mr Straw would not dare go to New Zealand and tell a Maori he was not "indigenous". "We are the aborigines here," he claimed.

Challenged on his views on civil partnership, he said: "I said that a lot of people find the sight of two grown men kissing in public really creepy. I understand that homosexuals don't understand that but that's how a lot of us feel, Christians feel that way, Muslims, all sorts of people."

He admitted sharing a platform with former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke - but described him as "always totally non-violent".

other bullshit right there

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqhqdhHjhBQ

[Franz Fanonipants]

I'm a UKIP supporter, if I was in America I'd almost certainly be a Teabagger. I'm not really sure if you can call either of these movements "fascist" but if supporting a small state with a commitment to universal human rights makes me the next Adolf Hitler then so be it. And yes, like most UKIPers I'm strongly opposed to multi-culturalism, mass immigration and Islamification because I find it very hard to identify with many foreign practices and traditions. I don't think they add any value to the UK so I see no harm in advocating an end to the multi-culturalist experiment.

Haha

[chefdave]

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that there is that if someone describes themselves as a nationalist in the 21st century, there is a strong chance that they are also a bigot.

It's another meaningless term though, isn't it? When it comes to politics I must admit I'm a bit of bigot because I'm reluctant to accept the views of those who disagree with me. Similarly when all someone's got to offer is smart alec remarks along the lines of "but you're a right-wing fascist" it's accurate to describe them a bigot because they're sticking to their guns and not considering other viewpoints.

Yes nationalists are bigots. But so are Marxists. And libertarians. And socialists. We're all bigots.




Pretty sure his meeting with the KKK was him giving a lecture on how to market racism in the present day. Either way I don't think what he said even really matters when he is accepting speaking engagements with the ku klux klan

Well his actual words do sort of matter because Griffin was used as an example of a white racist who's allowed to get away with unsavoury comments. Although I was aware of the KKK meeting I havn't seen him make any especially racist comments first hand, I just wondered if the other poster had any evidence that proved otherwise.

[NGNM85]

Any Floridians on this forum should feel more than encouraged to show up at the polls in the next election and remove this thoroughly repulsive individual from the House of Representatives.

[Revolution starts with U]

As I explained above Cultural Marxism isn't the same thing as actual Marxism, indeed that's the whole point of CM: it's a process that covertly introduces Marxist concepts into societies that have outwardly rejected Marx's theories. Put it this way, if someone called me a Cultural Capitalist because I supported a raft of related social policies that put the individual before the collective I wouldn't complain as it would be a fair description of my beliefs, so why do leftists have hard time accepting the perfectly reasonable term Cultural Marxist? Nobody is saying Marxism, it's a related school of thought that is trying to achieve cultural hegemony.
So it
1) has nothing to do with Marxism
2) does not resemble Marxism
3) is not necessarily advanced by Marxists

and yet you still find it a meaningful term to be used




Well his actual words do sort of matter because Griffin was used as an example of a white racist who's allowed to get away with unsavoury comments. Although I was aware of the KKK meeting I havn't seen him make any especially racist comments first hand, I just wondered if the other poster had any evidence that proved otherwise.

I don't think you would have recognized them if you did see them because...

[o well this is ok I guess]

Ok let's try to turn this into positive discussion
What do you guys think of marxists that try to do cultural shit, like Brecht? Or Badiou and his shitty ass plays?

[Franz Fanonipants]

i like brecht

[chefdave]

So it
1) has nothing to do with Marxism
2) does not resemble Marxism
3) is not necessarily advanced by Marxists

and yet you still find it a meaningful term to be used

It's a useful term because it puts a clear stamp on a number of movements that at first may seem unrelated. Instead of pretending that global warming has anything to do The Science for example by highlighting it as just another aspect of Cultural Marxism it makes it that much easier to analyse. We can dispense with the scientific chicanery and instead concentrate on the inevitable collectivist controls Al Gore and his motley crew want to adopt. Marxist solutions to Marxist problems.




I don't think you would have recognized them if you did see them because...

No, you're imagining things. I didn't recognise them because they're simply not there. Go and have a look and Youtube and other than the two famous gaffes that are now over 15 old you'll struggle to find Griffin saying anything as blatantly racist as the sort of stuff Diane Abbott comes out with.

[Revolution starts with U]

It's a useful term because it puts a clear stamp on a number of movements that at first may seem unrelated. Instead of pretending that global warming has anything to do The Science for example by highlighting it as just another aspect of Cultural Marxism it makes it that much easier to analyse. We can dispense with the scientific chicanery and instead concentrate on the inevitable collectivist controls Al Gore and his motley crew want to adopt. Marxist solutions to Marxist problems.



OIC. It's a way for you to dismiss people and thier positions without actualy addressing any of them. Not what I would have thought at all :rolleyes:

How is cap and trade a marxist solution?





No, you're imagining things. I didn't recognise them because they're simply not there. Go and have a look and Youtube and other than the two famous gaffes that are now over 15 old you'll struggle to find Griffin saying anything as blatantly racist as the sort of stuff Diane Abbott comes out with.


I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that six million Jews were gassed and cremated and turned into lampshades. Orthodox opinion also once held that the world is flat.
—Nick Griffin, [29] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Griffin#cite_note-menace-28)

"this bloody Jew (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew) ... whose only claim is that his grandparents died in the Holocaust".[ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Griffin#cite_note-Ryanp63-30)

That was not my country any more. Why not come down and do it in Thurrock, do it in Stoke, do it in Burnley? Do it somewhere where there are still significant numbers of English and British people, and they haven't been ethnically cleansed from their own country."[ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Griffin#cite_note-lynchmob-92)

"There's no such thing as a black Welshman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_people)",[ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Griffin#cite_note-EHRCinterview-115)

In an interview with the BBC on 8 July 2009, during a discussion on European immigration, he proposed that the EU should sink boats carrying illegal immigrants, to prevent them from entering Europe. Although the interviewer (BBC correspondent Shirin Wheeler) implied that Griffin may have wished the EU to "murder people at sea", he quickly corrected her by saying "I didn't say anyone should be murdered at sea — I say boats should be sunk, they can throw them a life raft and they can go back to Libya"

"The TV footage of dozens of 'gay' demonstrators flaunting their perversion in front of the world's journalists showed just why so many ordinary people find these creatures so repulsive."[120] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Griffin#cite_note-119) The BNP states that, privately, homosexuality should be tolerated, but that it "should not be promoted or encouraged".[108] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Griffin#cite_note-counteringsmears-107) It opposed the introduction of civil partnerships and wishes to ban what it perceives as the promotion of homosexuality in schools and the media.

"... in Britain and indeed the entire West, today, we are part way through a process – artificially imposed by a dogmatic liberal ruling class - that is steadily destroying the very possibility of preserving our racial and cultural differences

We wouldn’t want asylum seekers from Iraq or Afghanistan or Somalia or wherever, even if they did bring material benefits, because even the greatest such gains would be more than offset by the fact that their very presence in such numbers will inevitably transform our society, changing Britain and the British peoples into something which is not British and not what is politely called ‘European’, and impolitely called ‘white’. Conversely, if the remaining 40,000 whites of overwhelmingly British stock facing brutal persecution in Robert Mugabe’s Marxist hell-hole all wanted to come to Britain, we would welcome them with open arms. They are our kith and kin, they share our values and our culture, and they would integrate immediately and earn their own living

I'm not in politics for cheap cheers; if I was I could probably have had a safe Tory seat years ago. I'm in it, among other things, because I want to help stop the immigration which is destroying this and every other white nation in the world. Then I want to see that deadly tide turned. I want to see Britain become the 99 per cent genetically white country she was just eleven years before I was born, and I want to die knowing that I have helped to set her on a course whereby her future genetic makeup will one day not even resemble that of January 1948, but that of July 1914. Nothing will ever turn me from working towards that final vision

Without the White race, nothing matters. [Other right-wing parties] believe that the answer to the race question is integration and a futile attempt to create ‘Black Britons’, while we affirm that non-Whites have no place here at all and will not rest until every last one has left our land.”




(Can't turn italics off:) I can go on if you need...

[#FF0000]

It's another meaningless term though, isn't it When it comes to politics I must admit I'm a bit of bigot because I'm reluctant to accept the views of those who disagree with me.

Disagreeing with people doesn't make one a bigot, though.


Similarly when all someone's got to offer is smart alec remarks along the lines of "but you're a right-wing fascist" it's accurate to describe them a bigot because they're sticking to their guns and not considering other viewpoints.

Yes sorta.


Yes nationalists are bigots. But so are Marxists. And libertarians. And socialists. We're all bigots.

No. By and large it depends on the person as to whether or not they can just deal with other people having different opinions. But, with my comment on nationalists and bigotry, I was specifically referring to racial/ethnic/religious bigotry.


Well his actual words do sort of matter because Griffin was used as an example of a white racist who's allowed to get away with unsavoury comments.

He's a guy with recent connections with the KKK who is allowed airtime so

[#FF0000]

99 per cent genetically white

*audible groan from every geneticist*

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*audible groan from every geneticist*

I agree :drool:

[#FF0000]

i also wanna point out that uh, chefdave sort of just changed the subject instead of defending any of his assertions from earlier.

[u.s.red]

The term 'liberal' or 'progressive' is a derogatory one used by right-wingers to describe Cultural Marxists. Cultural Marxists aren't Communists as such, in fact they may not even be aware they're espousing collectivists dogma, but they're certainly on the leftist/socialist/communist side of the ideological spectrum.

Cultural Nazis aren't fascists as such, in fact they may not even be aware they're espousing statist-corporate dogma, but they're certainly on the rightist/reactionary/fascist side of the ideological spectrum.

[DinodudeEpic]

Liberals ARE NOT communists.

Simple as that. Maybe liberal reasoning (individualism.) can be used to justify communist goals, but communism and liberalism are mutually exclusive ideologies. You can be a liberal and a socialist. But, you can't be a communist and a liberal.

Not to say that communism is bad. (The more libertarian forms of it, anarcho-communism and council communism are perfectly fine to work with for me.)

Of course, most liberals are not socialists. (Most as in almost all. No, all liberals except for me and a few obscure intellectuals.) Even social liberals, who are more like social democrat-lite with liberal reasoning, are not socialists.

[hatzel]

you'll struggle to find Griffin saying anything as blatantly racist as the sort of stuff Diane Abbott comes out with.

But the problem here is that you're still acting as if black people saying that white people do shitloads of racist stuff (just to reiterate to anybody who doesn't know, this is what Abbott said, the comments that matey finds so repugnant) is anything other than...well...a statement of fact. Her being forced to apologise for saying that is easily one of the most laughable political episodes of recent years.

How you can honestly believe that whites being outright racists is somehow more acceptable than blacks saying that whites are outright racists is so beyond me I can't even begin to describe it with the feeble words of mere mortals...

[Red Commissar]

If Congressman West wants to see a blatant relationship between Communists and the mainstream parties, he should not be looking at the Democrats but instead the roots of the Republican party. Radical German 48ers were among the groups who were involved in the foundation of the Republican Party, and Marx took note of Lincoln's re-election in the middle of the Civil War enough to warrant a congratulatory letter from the IWA. Two German socialists, August Willich and Joseph Weydemeyer fought in the Civil War and were staunch supporters of the Republican Party then.

Even later before the Republican shift, progressives in Wisconsin cooperated with the "Progressive" Republicans there to pass legislation that were pro-labor (oh the irony). LaFollette, La Guardia, Marcantonio were all Republicans who accepted help from left goals to pursue a mutual cause.

But as far as Congressman West is concerned though, as well as those who think like him, any one slightly 'left' of them are die hard REDS so it's a moot point to them.

[Crux]

No. But it sounds like you might be, I'm sure you'll be capitalising off the back of his actions for quite some time by smugly labelling anyone who's vaguely concerned with Cultural Marxism as a Breivik sympathiser/fan etc.
Your entire ideology is Breivik-light though, or what we used to call a "secret commies are taking over the world/women and minorities are too uppity" a sneaky little racist. No doubt you will now cry and say I am calling you names, but fact is your entire ideology is completely bankrupt. But unlike us, since there is no shady marxist conspiracy pulling the figurative strings of society, you actually have the monied interests behind you. Murdochmedia, the oil industry, the conservative political establishment. What really irks me about especially american liberals is that they believe opinions such as yours is down to mere uninformed stupidity, betraying their own elitism. It is no such thing. it is a well oiled political machine, it is a strain of conservative political thought that has an overlap with the fascist right, as explained earlier in regards to the idea of "cultural marxism", "poltiical correctness" etc. Now this *is* a fairly broad spectrum and the phrase fascism is sometimes thrown around too lightly. However, we have seen in some countries, my own included, the classical far right moving to try and fill this political mold. Indeed speaking of breivik, while his ideology is very much copy paste, it owes more to groups like the EDL and the hard right of the republicans than it does to classical nazis. Claiming to believe in democracy and equality is the oldest trick in the book. hell, even such a stellar democrat as general Franco held speeches to that effect. But of course if you were to add an immense threat eating away at your nations institutions and culture, teh veyr fabric of society, suddenly martial law is completely permisseble to protect these things. This is the same reason why most of your ideological forebears capitulated to fascism. fascism was the final solution to the "cultural marxist" problem of that day. But even in a less extreme situation than during the rise of fascism your ideas stll reflect the paranoid worldview that a certain class of white men tend to find very appealing. You try to present yourself as reasonable when you are nothing of the sort, instead acting out the basest of prejudices in society. Others have adressed you with questions, as has been seen this has been a waste of time since you are both unable and unwilling to answer them. Now tell me how you *really* feel?

[chefdave]

But the problem here is that you're still acting as if black people saying that white people do shitloads of racist stuff (just to reiterate to anybody who doesn't know, this is what Abbott said, the comments that matey finds so repugnant) is anything other than...well...a statement of fact. Her being forced to apologise for saying that is easily one of the most laughable political episodes of recent years.

How you can honestly believe that whites being outright racists is somehow more acceptable than blacks saying that whites are outright racists is so beyond me I can't even begin to describe it with the feeble words of mere mortals...

It sounds like a clear case of being unable to recognise your own bias (something I was accused of earlier) Image if Nick Griffin had said that 'black people do shitloads of racist stuff' and then backed it up with evidence from the Ivory Coast which has seen a lot of violent racism perpetrated against foreigners in recent years, would you be willing to accept Griffin's comments as a "statement of fact" or would you be jumping up and down and finger pointing at the nasty little wasict?

You've just proven my original point perfectly that Marxists and Cultural Marxists alike want enhanced rights for minorities -in this case the right to free speech- and a diminshed version of rights for those they erroneously believe to be members of the 'petit beourgeois'. In other words they reject the libertarian concept of universal human rights and instead opt for identity rights based on your skin colour/bank balance/religion etc etc.

[Crux]

It sounds like a clear case of being unable to recognise your own bias (something I was accused of earlier) Image if Nick Griffin had said that 'black people do shitloads of racist stuff' and then backed it up with evidence from the Ivory Coast which has seen a lot of violent racism perpetrated against foreigners in recent years, would you be willing to accept Griffin's comments as a "statement of fact" or would you be jumping up and down and finger pointing at the nasty little wasict?

You've just proven my original point perfectly that Marxists and Cultural Marxists alike want enhanced rights for minorities -in this case the right to free speech- and a diminshed version of rights for those they erroneously believe to be members of the 'petit beourgeois'. In other words for reject the libertarian concept of universal human rights and instead opt for identity rights based on your skin colour/bank balance/religion etc etc.
And you've yet again proven that you are blind. at best.

[RGacky3]

Tbh I think this says more about the contradictory nature of Marxism than my understanding of it. I won't bother trying to pin down exactly what it is because I'm well aware that this is a trap used by Marxists to fluster the opposition.


So asking for an actual knowledge of Marxism before commenting on it is actually a Marxist trap :laugh:.

Your a joke.

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I've always found it funny when someone says "imagine if x, your response would be y." Than acts as if that actually WAS their response and goes about *****ing about it... as if anyone cares :thumbup1:

[chefdave]

I've always found it funny when someone says "imagine if x, your response would be y." Than acts as if that actually WAS their response and goes about *****ing about it... as if anyone cares :thumbup1:

Errr, fail. Someone has already given an example of Griffin talking about racism perpetrated against whites in Africa, but instead of accepting the factual nature of his point it's been used to prove his supposed racist tendencies.

But hey, don't little a little thing like facts get in the way of a world laden with double standards and self-righteousness. :cool:

[Crux]

Errr, fail. Someone has already given an example of Griffin talking about racism perpetrated against whites in Africa, but instead of accepting the factual nature of his point it's been used to prove his supposed racist tendencies.

But hey, don't little a little thing like facts get in the way of a world laden with double standards and self-righteousness. :cool:
So you are trying to say the bNP are not racist scum? Really? You're cute.

[chefdave]

Your entire ideology is Breivik-light though, or what we used to call a "secret commies are taking over the world/women and minorities are too uppity" a sneaky little racist. No doubt you will now cry and say I am calling you names, but fact is your entire ideology is completely bankrupt. But unlike us, since there is no shady marxist conspiracy pulling the figurative strings of society, you actually have the monied interests behind you. Murdochmedia, the oil industry, the conservative political establishment. What really irks me about especially american liberals is that they believe opinions such as yours is down to mere uninformed stupidity, betraying their own elitism. It is no such thing. it is a well oiled political machine, it is a strain of conservative political thought that has an overlap with the fascist right, as explained earlier in regards to the idea of "cultural marxism", "poltiical correctness" etc. Now this *is* a fairly broad spectrum and the phrase fascism is sometimes thrown around too lightly. However, we have seen in some countries, my own included, the classical far right moving to try and fill this political mold. Indeed speaking of breivik, while his ideology is very much copy paste, it owes more to groups like the EDL and the hard right of the republicans than it does to classical nazis. Claiming to believe in democracy and equality is the oldest trick in the book. hell, even such a stellar democrat as general Franco held speeches to that effect. But of course if you were to add an immense threat eating away at your nations institutions and culture, teh veyr fabric of society, suddenly martial law is completely permisseble to protect these things. This is the same reason why most of your ideological forebears capitulated to fascism. fascism was the final solution to the "cultural marxist" problem of that day. But even in a less extreme situation than during the rise of fascism your ideas stll reflect the paranoid worldview that a certain class of white men tend to find very appealing. You try to present yourself as reasonable when you are nothing of the sort, instead acting out the basest of prejudices in society. Others have adressed you with questions, as has been seen this has been a waste of time since you are both unable and unwilling to answer them. Now tell me how you *really* feel?

I'm not really sure how to answer this as you've brought in a number of unrelated points and made all manner of baseless accusations. Thank you for your comments though.

[Revolution starts with U]

Errr, fail. Someone has already given an example of Griffin talking about racism perpetrated against whites in Africa, but instead of accepting the factual nature of his point it's been used to prove his supposed racist tendencies.

But hey, don't little a little thing like facts get in the way of a world laden with double standards and self-righteousness. :cool:

My first question would be; is that person and the person you accused of taking that position the same person? If not well...


BTW, do you recognize the racism in the Griffin quotes I posted?

[Crux]

I'm not really sure how to answer this as you've brought in a number of unrelated points and made all manner of baseless accusations. Thank you for your comments though.
Of course you don't know how to respond to it. Just like how you don't know how to respond to anything in this thread. And talking about unrelated points is pretty rich coming from you. If you could only see yourself...

[Crux]

I'm not really sure how to answer this as you've brought in a number of unrelated points and made all manner of baseless accusations. Thank you for your comments though.
Tell me how you feel though. You feel persecuted by shady feminist/communist/liberal elites? yes? tell me more about that.

[chefdave]

So you are trying to say the bNP are not racist scum? Really? You're cute.

I expect the BNP -like all organisations- contain some racist members and tbh they're not my kind of party as they're a bit too socialist for my tastes, but there's a clear disconnect between Griffin's public persona and this manufactured caricature the liberal-left insist on bombarding the public with each time the BNP is mentioned. The fact is most liberal-lefties have no idea what Griffin or the BNP believe because for the last decade or so they've pursued a vehement policy of No Platform, so instead they smear him with hearsay or comments he made nearly twenty years ago. Many people -including myself- are fed up of having our minds made up for us by those with a clear agenda to push, if the left insist on sticking their fingers in their ears or stropping out the room each time Griffin speaks then you'll have to excuse me for ignoring anything they have to say on the matter.

[Crux]

I expect the BNP -like all organisations- contain some racist members and tbh they're not my kind of party as they're a bit too socialist for my tastes, but there's a clear disconnect between Griffin's public persona and this manufactured caricature the liberal-left insist on bombarding the public with each time the BNP is mentioned. The fact is most liberal-lefties have no idea what Griffin or the BNP believe because for the last decade or so they've pursued a vehement policy of No Platform, so instead they smear him with hearsay or comments he made nearly twenty years ago. Many people -including myself- are fed up of having our minds made up for us by those with a clear agenda to push, if the left insist on sticking their fingers in their ears or stropping out the room each time Griffin speaks then you'll have to excuse me for ignoring anything they have to say on the matter.

Well that's because you are, at best, clueless as to what racism is. as you have demonstrated quite well. Consider my previous post as a bit of an expose on how racist parties work. Again it is the need for the imminent threat and inner enemy.

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I have to say the only one with their fingers in their ears is you. I have shown you the blatant racism of Griffin... in no more time than a 5min google search. But I bet you don't think any of those comments are racist or bigoted in any way.

[Crux]

I have to say the only one with their fingers in their ears is you. I have shown you the blatant racism of Griffin... in no more time than a 5min google search. But I bet you don't think any of those comments are racist or bigoted in any way.

His problem with the BNP is their...wait for it..."socialism". :laugh:

[chefdave]

Tell me how you feel though. You feel persecuted by shady feminist/communist/liberal elites? yes? tell me more about that.

Maybe you should direct your loaded questions to Liam Stacey: the white undergrad who was locked up for 2 months for posting unsavoury comments on Twitter. I doubt he'd pin the blame on a small group of shady liberal elites but he might say his jail sentence is the product of a demented legal system with some pretty warped (Cultural Marxist?) beliefs.

[Crux]

Maybe you should direct your loaded questions to Liam Stacey: the white undergrad who was locked up for 2 months for posting unsavoury comments on Twitter. I doubt he'd pin the blame on a small group of shady liberal elites but he might say his jail sentence is the product of a demented legal system with some pretty warped (Cultural Marxist?) beliefs.

Ah yes, the burden of being a white man. Hatespeech laws only treat the symptom though. But you are diverting again. I am genuinly curious.

[Revolution starts with U]

Maybe you should direct your loaded questions to Liam Stacey: the white undergrad who was locked up for 2 months for posting unsavoury comments on Twitter. I doubt he'd pin the blame on a small group of shady liberal elites but he might say his jail sentence is the product of a demented legal system with some pretty warped (Cultural Marxist?) beliefs.

He can place the blame squarely where it belongs... with himself, since he pleaded guilty. God, you're such a tool :crying:

And who would've guessed this fat douchenozzle used the "I'm not racist, I have black friends" defense...

[chefdave]

Well that's because you are, at best, clueless as to what racism is. as you have demonstrated quite well. Consider my previous post as a bit of an expose on how racist parties work. Again it is the need for the imminent threat and inner enemy.

I'm not clueless about racism, I've just rejected the hyper-sensitive approach leftists have adopted because it runs contrary to my opinions on freedom of speech. If I was given a choice between living in a UK that protected the individual's right to say anything they pleased and one that criminalised people for committing speech related 'hate crimes' I'd adopt the former without question. As lefties and their obsession with racism are getting in the way of the tolerant society I inevitably find myself arguing for the right of Griffin et al to speak their mind without fear of retaliation.

[Revolution starts with U]

I'm not clueless about racism, I've just rejected the hyper-sensitive approach leftists have adopted because it runs contrary to my opinions on freedom of speech. If I was given a choice between living in a UK that protected the individual's right to say anything they pleased and one that criminalised people for committing speech related 'hate crimes' I'd adopt the former without question. As lefties and their obsession with racism are getting in the way of the tolerant society I inevitably find myself arguing for the right of Griffin et al to speak their mind without fear of retaliation.

Ya, except that whole part where you actually agree with his views (except where he gets a lil too socialist :rolleyes:).

You're only fooling yourself comrade. Just be a man and admit you think whitey is the greatest thing that ever happened to the world.

And again; I've posted Griffin's racism. Are you going to respond?

[RGacky3]

I'm not clueless about racism, I've just rejected the hyper-sensitive approach leftists have adopted because it runs contrary to my opinions on freedom of speech. If I was given a choice between living in a UK that protected the individual's right to say anything they pleased and one that criminalised people for committing speech related 'hate crimes' I'd adopt the former without question. As lefties and their obsession with racism are getting in the way of the tolerant society I inevitably find myself arguing for the right of Griffin et al to speak their mind without fear of retaliation.

Most leftists support unconditional freedom of speach.

That does'nt mean that you can threaten people, nor does it mean you can say racist things and not be called a racist or taken off public airwaves because people don't want to hear your racism.

I honestly don't know what your talking about, you are totally free to join a racist group or be racist if you want.

[chefdave]

He can place the blame squarely where it belongs... with himself, since he pleaded guilty. God, you're such a tool :crying:

And who would've guessed this fat douchenozzle used the "I'm not racist, I have black friends" defense...

This is exactly what I mean. For the entire thread almost everyone's denied the existence of Cultural Marxism and written it off as a right-wing conspiracy theory, but when it comes to the litmus test: the incarceration of Liam Stacey, you cannot wait to show support for this rather blatant example of white discrimination. Only in a Marxist society would someone find themselves inside for writing a few words that contradicted the prevailing orthodoxy. Hell, I expect you believe I'm a fascist for daring to the put the words 'white' and 'discrimination' next to each other your brain has been so distorted with CM mumbo jumbo!

[chefdave]

Ya, except that whole part where you actually agree with his views (except where he gets a lil too socialist :rolleyes:).

You're only fooling yourself comrade. Just be a man and admit you think whitey is the greatest thing that ever happened to the world.

And again; I've posted Griffin's racism. Are you going to respond?


Why not post a legitimate source, i.e a newspaper article or a speech of his with dates (i.e so we're not persecuting him for what he said when he was 18) and then we'll discuss his racist comments. I'm not really interested in quotations that are doing the rounds in leftist circles because inevitably they'll be the result of hearsay or liberal fantasies.

[Revolution starts with U]

This is exactly what I mean. For the entire thread almost everyone's denied the existence of Cultural Marxism and written it off as a right-wing conspiracy theory, but when it comes to the litmus test: the incarceration of Liam Stacey, you cannot wait to show support for this rather blatant example of white discrimination. Only in a Marxist society would someone find themselves inside for writing a few words that contradicted the prevailing orthodoxy. Hell, I expect you believe I'm a fascist for daring to the put the words 'white' and 'discrimination' next to each other your brain has been so distorted with CM mumbo jumbo!

If you could show me where I once "showed support for this rather blatant example of white discrimination."

Honestly I could care less about this. He's a racist sure. A sociopath, definitely. But he pleaded guilty. Period. No other argument necessary. He pleaded guilty, and no justice system anywhere ever can protect a defendant that pleads guilty from facing judicial punishment.

[RGacky3]

Why not post a legitimate source, i.e a newspaper article or a speech of his with dates (i.e so we're not persecuting him for what he said when he was 18) and then we'll discuss his racist comments. I'm not really interested in quotations that are doing the rounds in leftist circles because inevitably they'll be the result of hearsay or liberal fantasies.

Why not learn the basics of what your claiming (that the madeup boogyman rightwing pundits call "cultural marxism," is accurately named, i.e. has the slightest thing to do with marxism), in other words, learn something about marxism.

Also explain specifically what your *****ing about? Are you mad that you will be called nasty words when you say something racist?

[Revolution starts with U]

Why not post a legitimate source, i.e a newspaper article or a speech of his with dates (i.e so we're not persecuting him for what he said when he was 18) and then we'll discuss his racist comments. I'm not really interested in quotations that are doing the rounds in leftist circles because inevitably they'll be the result of hearsay or liberal fantasies.

Almost all of that was from the wikipedia about him. All of them, except the holocaust denial, were taken after he became head of the BNP.

Just admit it. He's a racist, and so are you.

[chefdave]

Most leftists support unconditional freedom of speach.

That does'nt mean that you can threaten people, nor does it mean you can say racist things and not be called a racist or taken off public airwaves because people don't want to hear your racism.

I honestly don't know what your talking about, you are totally free to join a racist group or be racist if you want.

In a free society based on private property the owners of airwaves would have the final say over the sort of content they choose to put out. If they decide to include 'racists' prepared to tackle the thorny issue of multi-culturalism that is their prerogotive and the state has no business interfering for the sake of minorities or the collective good.

If someone is espusing racist views on the 'public' airwaves instead of using the coercion of the state I suggest that people turn off their T.Vs and radios or listen to something else. That is called the free market solution.

[RGacky3]

In a free society based on private property the owners of airwaves would have the final say over the sort of content they choose to put out. If they decide to include 'racists' prepared to tackle the thorny issue of multi-culturalism that is their prerogotive and the state has no business interfering for the sake of minorities or the collective good.


Well, thats basically how it is now.

But anyway arguing that the airwaves can be "owned" is a very very sticky argument, even for a libertarian.


If someone is espusing racist views on the 'public' airwaves instead of using the coercion of the state I suggest that people turn off their T.Vs and radios or listen to something else. That is called the free market solution.

Thats basically the way it is now ....

Except airwaves are different than say ... the internet, becuase its a limited resource.

[chefdave]

Why not learn the basics of what your claiming (that the madeup boogyman rightwing pundits call "cultural marxism," is accurately named, i.e. has the slightest thing to do with marxism), in other words, learn something about marxism.

Also explain specifically what your *****ing about? Are you mad that you will be called nasty words when you say something racist?

Quit changing the subject. Show me these racist comments and provide verifiable sources please. Is it Griffin's actual words that offend you or is it the idea of a legitimate political party speaking up for the interests of British working-class whites? Tbh you're coming across as a bit Westernophobic by constantly moaning about 'nasty' Nick Griffin.

[Revolution starts with U]

channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics (http://channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/griffin+aposit+is+not+about+colourapos/3227657.html)
/griffin+aposit+is+not+about+colourapos/3227657.html
"No such thing as a black welshman." 2009

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8141069.stm
"sink ships with black people on them" 2009

The BNP: Anti-asylum protest, racist sect or power-winning movement?
From the BNP website, 2004 (which it actually goes on to say that English peoples should not have children with japanese, or anyone else.)

[Revolution starts with U]

Quit changing the subject. Show me these racist comments and provide verifiable sources please. Is it Griffin's actual words that offend you or is it the idea of a legitimate political party speaking up for the interests of British working-class whites? Tbh you're coming across as a bit Westernophobic by constantly moaning about 'nasty' Nick Griffin.

Does it surprise me that almost every single one of the "liberatarian" stooges that have come to this site since I've been here have been racists?

No... no, not at all. :crying:

No matter. He'll just dismiss me as a CM and continue on his idiotic campaign. He said as much when he said the term "cultural marxism" is a way to dismiss people and their positions without actually analyzing them... or even thinking at all.

EDIT: inb4 ban :D

[RGacky3]

Quit changing the subject. Show me these racist comments and provide verifiable sources please. Is it Griffin's actual words that offend you or is it the idea of a legitimate political party speaking up for the interests of British working-class whites? Tbh you're coming across as a bit Westernophobic by constantly moaning about 'nasty' Nick Griffin.

I was'nt talking about Nick Griffen .... Pay attention.

I don't give a shit what he said.

[chefdave]

Does it surprise me that almost every single one of the "liberatarian" stooges that have come to this site since I've been here have been racists?

No... no, not at all. :crying:

No matter. He'll just dismiss me as a CM and continue on his idiotic campaign. He said as much when he said the term "cultural marxism" is a way to dismiss people and their positions without actually analyzing them... or even thinking at all.

EDIT: inb4 ban :D

The irony is of course that the Cultural Marxist denial of rights for Europeans is driving people into the arms of far leftist parties such as the BNP. Liberals are guilty of setting up this false dichotomy whereby you're either in favour of zero borders and the non-propertied Marxist state or you're a fascist only capable of thinking in terms of skin colour, and as such traditionally centrist parties have allowed themselves to be bullied into accepting multi-culturalism out of fear of being branded 'wacist'. This has cleared the field and allowed the BNP to capitalise on growing concerns over mass immigration.

If the left were less hysterical and accepted the validity of equal rights for all and a British state that put the interests of British people first these ideas would return to the mainstream and the BNP would soon become irrelevent. If you keep crying wolf about fascists and racists though you're only going to strengthen the resolve of those who reject Cultural Marxist political orthodoxy.

[Per Levy]

Quit changing the subject.

that is rich coming from you, i mean you're the one changing topics all the time, you're the one not providing sources or evidence for your claims(and you made a shit load of claims) and you're the one who constantly uses terms if wich you have no idea what they mean, like marxism as the most obvious example.

[Krano]

The irony is of course that the Cultural Marxist denial of rights for Europeans is driving people into the arms of far leftist parties such as the BNP. Liberals are guilty of setting up this false dichotomy whereby you're either in favour of zero borders and the non-propertied Marxist state or you're a fascist only capable of thinking in terms of skin colour, and as such traditionally centrist parties have allowed themselves to be bullied into accepting multi-culturalism out of fear of being branded 'wacist'. This has cleared the field and allowed the BNP to capitalise on growing concerns over mass immigration.

If the left were less hysterical and accepted the validity of equal rights for all and a British state that put the interests of British people first these ideas would return to the mainstream and the BNP would soon become irrelevent. If you keep crying wolf about fascists and racists though you're only going to strengthen the resolve of those who reject Cultural Marxist political orthodoxy.
Why don't you just call us race mixers like other forums do? or does that sound too bad for you? stop being a closet racist and just be out with it. BNP is leftist only in your insane head.

[chefdave]

that is rich coming from you, i mean you're the one changing topics all the time, you're the one not providing sources or evidence for your claims(and you made a shit load of claims) and you're the one who constantly uses terms if wich you have no idea what they mean, like marxism as the most obvious example.

If you scroll back you'll discover that I wasn't the one that originally brought up Nick Griffin's name. Someone else threw it out there and as it's relevent to cultural marxism I thought it was worth tackling the alleged racism of the BNP.

[Per Levy]

Only in a Marxist society


the non-propertied Marxist state

what is a marxist state, what is marxist society?

also, what is cultural marxism? what is marxism? let us here what your definitions are on these terms, cause it seems obvious to anyone that you have not the slightest idea what this all means and that you just throw around terms that might impress your libertarian buddys but make you the laughing stock if an actual marxists.

[hatzel]

This thread is mind-numbingly boring...

[Revolution starts with U]

The irony is of course that the Cultural Marxist denial of rights for Europeans is driving people into the arms of far leftist parties such as the BNP. Liberals are guilty of setting up this false dichotomy whereby you're either in favour of zero borders and the non-propertied Marxist state or you're a fascist only capable of thinking in terms of skin colour, and as such traditionally centrist parties have allowed themselves to be bullied into accepting multi-culturalism out of fear of being branded 'wacist'. This has cleared the field and allowed the BNP to capitalise on growing concerns over mass immigration.

If the left were less hysterical and accepted the validity of equal rights for all and a British state that put the interests of British people first these ideas would return to the mainstream and the BNP would soon become irrelevent. If you keep crying wolf about fascists and racists though you're only going to strengthen the resolve of those who reject Cultural Marxist political orthodoxy.

I think its clear that the topic of race makes you absolutely delusional and unable to maintain a coherent thought pattern, or to recognize the actual arguments of your opponents (as opposed to what you wanted to see).

I have shown you the evidence. I have given you the sources. I'm not trying to be a dick. I'm trying to raise your consciousness. Just admit what and who you are.

Nobody is denying the rights of europeans (at least not in the way you're suggesting). Center-left liberals are almost always nationalist, in the sense that they support nation-states. Not a single one of them, that I know of, supports the end of private property. You can't support "equal" rights, and at the same time promote the rights of one people over another (brits, in your words). You're just delusional.

[RGacky3]

The irony is of course that the Cultural Marxist denial of rights for Europeans

WHERE??? examples ....


Liberals are guilty of setting up this false dichotomy whereby you're either in favour of zero borders and the non-propertied Marxist state or you're a fascist only capable of thinking in terms of skin colour

Where ????? WHEN?????


Cultural Marxist political orthodoxy.

You still insist on using that idiotic phrase, you do realize that NO ONE took you seriously after they read that you were using that, and for good reason, the only people that use that are right wing fear mongers and the morons that follow them.

[chefdave]

what is a marxist state, what is marxist society?

also, what is cultural marxism? what is marxism? let us here what your definitions are on these terms, cause it seems obvious to anyone that you have not the slightest idea what this all means and that you just throw around terms that might impress your libertarian buddys but make you the laughing stock if an actual marxists.

Marxism is the ideology that promotes freedom through dictatorship. A core belief in Marxism is that some groups (the bourgeois) systematically suppress other groups (the proletariat) so it's the destinty of the alienated to rise up and grab the levers of power and then install a benelovent dictatorship that'll write the wrongs that occurred under the capitalist mode of production. It's basically an illogical mixture of fairytale fantasy and authoritiarianism that utilises Macheavellian logic, i.e because the end goal is a 'stateless, classless, moneyless' society' whatever preceeds that is mere detail and a stepping stone to true justice.

I've explained Cultural Marxism above but here's a good Youtube video that goes over it in more detail: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Jlk1frpWrI

[Krano]

Marxism is the ideology that promotes freedom through dictatorship. A core belief in Marxism is that some groups (the bourgeois) systematically suppress other groups (the proletariat) so it's the destinty of the alienated to rise up and grab the levers of power and then install a benelovent dictatorship that'll write the wrongs that occurred under the capitalist mode of production. It's basically an illogical mixture of fairytale fantasy and authoritiarianism that utilises Macheavellian logic, i.e because the end goal is a 'stateless, classless, moneyless' society' whatever preceeds that is mere detail and a stepping stone to true justice.

I've explained Cultural Marxism above but here's a good Youtube video that goes over it in more detail: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Jlk1frpWrI
:lol:

[Revolution starts with U]

:lol:

trololol

[Krano]

trololol
Time for animal pictures?

[chefdave]

This thread is mind-numbingly boring...

I think I can safely speak for everyone when I say how entertaining this thread has been. The left love playing "smash the fash" (although I'm not a fascist) just as much as I love exposing the illogical nature of leftist thought. These sorts of threads are the reason why the OI forum is the most popular.

[hatzel]

I really wish there were "a legitimate political party speaking up for the interests of British working-class whites," because I'm currently very interested in seeing this trainwreck of a thread closed...

[chefdave]

Time for animal pictures?

lol, why not just refute my statements using words and logic if you find yourself disagreeing with them? I know it's more effort but this is a debating forum after all.

[Revolution starts with U]

I think I can safely speak for everyone when I say how entertaining this thread has been. The left love playing "smash the fash" (although I'm not a fascist) just as much as I love exposing the illogical nature of leftist thought. These sorts of threads are the reason why the OI forum is the most popular.

1. You really think any lurkers on this forum are declaring YOU the winner? :lol:

2. You've exposed nothing but your own bigotry and delusions.

3. OI is not the most popular forum, dummy. It's the one that has an exclusive membership; meaning I can go to all the other forums, and do. And yet you can only post here. OI would have to dwarf the rest of the forum combined to be "the most popular."

Oh btw, Nick Grifiin is a racist white supremacist (as I suspect you are), and I proved it. The guy in the video you posted (which is probably you) is paranoid delusional. And people who plead guilty get punished. Facts. Go climb back in your hole.

[Revolution starts with U]

lol, why not just refute my statements using words and logic if you find yourself disagreeing with them? I know it's more effort but this is a debating forum after all.

Ya, except we tried that, for 9 pages. You're just delusional.

[chefdave]

I really wish there were "a legitimate political party speaking up for the interests of British working-class whites," because I'm currently very interested in seeing this trainwreck of a thread closed...

That's because you're a statist. The free market solution would be to leave the thread if you dislike it and allow those who would like to contribute to do so in peace. Tolerance, it's a real ***** isn't it? :lol:

[RGacky3]

lol, why not just refute my statements using words and logic if you find yourself disagreeing with them? I know it's more effort but this is a debating forum after all.

Because its CLEAR that you don't respond to logic.

You hav'nt made any serious points, you make rediculous claims about things you have no idea about (marxism), you ignore points selectively.

Your not a rational person thus it does'nt suprise me people don't want to waste their time.


Marxism is the ideology that promotes freedom through dictatorship. A core belief in Marxism is that some groups (the bourgeois) systematically suppress other groups (the proletariat) so it's the destinty of the alienated to rise up and grab the levers of power and then install a benelovent dictatorship that'll write the wrongs that occurred under the capitalist mode of production. It's basically an illogical mixture of fairytale fantasy and authoritiarianism that utilises Macheavellian logic, i.e because the end goal is a 'stateless, classless, moneyless' society' whatever preceeds that is mere detail and a stepping stone to true justice.


Tell me what Marx have you read? Or what Marxist writing about Marx have you read?

It honestly sounds like NONE, you hav'nt the slightest clue what Marx was writing about.

You want us to refute you with logic, yet your debating against something which you have no concept about, so how the hell is logic gonna work?

Marxism is positive economics, meaning descriptive, meaning it investigates the internal workings of capitalism. Read something before you yap your mouth.


That's because you're a statist. The free market solution would be to leave the thread if you dislike it and allow those who would like to contribute to do so in peace. Tolerance, it's a real ***** isn't it? :lol:

Statist??? Yet another totally made up word by the right wing, NO ONE is a statist, (maybe fascists), most leftists are against state power, even ones that are for nationalization are only so as a means to an end, but then again, I don't expect someone like you to know what the hell your talking about.

The RATIONAL solution would be for you to know what the hell your talking about before you talk about it.

BTW, this website is privately owned, so the real free market solution would be for the mods to do whatever the hell they want.

[hatzel]

That's because you're a statist.

Actually I'm what's called an anarchist. Hard faktz in teh fred!

[Revolution starts with U]

That's because you're a statist. The free market solution would be to leave the thread if you dislike it and allow those who would like to contribute to do so in peace. Tolerance, it's a real ***** isn't it? :lol:

Actually, that would be the tolerant left-lib stance. As has been said, the free market solution would be for the owner/s of the site to do whatever the hell they want.

But hey, when has logical consistency ever been important to a racist...

[chefdave]

1. You really think any lurkers on this forum are declaring YOU the winner? :lol:

2. You've exposed nothing but your own bigotry and delusions.

3. OI is not the most popular forum, dummy. It's the one that has an exclusive membership; meaning I can go to all the other forums, and do. And yet you can only post here. OI would have to dwarf the rest of the forum combined to be "the most popular."

Oh btw, Nick Grifiin is a racist white supremacist (as I suspect you are), and I proved it. The guy in the video you posted (which is probably you) is paranoid delusional. And people who plead guilty get punished. Facts. Go climb back in your hole.

You're not going to win any support in the mainstream by writing Griffin off as a racist white supremacist, it makes you look hysterical and incapable of reasoned thought. This tactic may have worked when the BNP were an unelected party with no method of communicating directly to voters, but as Griffin is now an MEP he has the profile to expose these comments as part of the smear campaign of the unthinking left. Instead of childish name calling can I suggest that direct your criticism toward actual BNP policies? Just crying 'racist' just doesn't cut it anymore I'm afraid, that was so last decade.

[Revolution starts with U]

You're not going to win any support in the mainstream by writing Griffin off as a racist white supremacist, it makes you look hysterical and incapable of reasoned thought. This tactic may have worked when the BNP were an unelected party with no method of communicating directly to voters, but as Griffin is now an MEP he has the profile to expose these comments as the childish comments of the unthinking left. Instead of childish name calling can I suggest that direct your criticism toward actual BNP policies? Just crying 'racist' just doesn't cut it anymore I'm afraid, that was so last decade.

Ya, except I'm not "just crying racism." I proved it. You just skipped over that part, as I expected you would.

I don't know how my thought can get any more reasoned, more than "this guy is x, here is sources a b and c to prove it." I would think it more unreasonable to see the quotes, dismiss them as unsourced. Then see the sources and just forget about them, as if they were never posted. Face it, dude's a racist.

Now, you can either accept that, and claim that racism is good for society. Or you can continue denying it and exposing yourself for the delusional bigot we all suspected you of being in the first place. The choice is yours.



I will critique BNP specific policies. This should be clear to you as I have followed through on every time you tried to call us out. I will go the extra mile to prove you wrong because, contrary to rightist rhetoric, leftists are not lazy. This would be just another diversion started by you in this thread (what, like 7 now?) which has fuck-all to do with the OP, but I will do it. Challenge me, comrade. :cool:

[#FF0000]

Marxism is the ideology that promotes freedom through dictatorship. A core belief in Marxism is that some groups (the bourgeois) systematically suppress other groups (the proletariat) so it's the destinty of the alienated to rise up and grab the levers of power and then install a benelovent dictatorship that'll write the wrongs that occurred under the capitalist mode of production.

No.

[Franz Fanonipants]

hey guys remember that no fascists thing well

[Franz Fanonipants]

Errr, fail. Someone has already given an example of Griffin talking about racism perpetrated against whites in Africa, but instead of accepting the factual nature of his point it's been used to prove his supposed racist tendencies.

racism is never perpetrated against whites

[RGacky3]

racism is never perpetrated against whites

Yes it is ... By other whites, generally speaking.

And yeah, in small cased in Africa, (zimbabuwe for example), there has been systemic cases of racism against whites by non-whites.

But overall its rare.

[danyboy27]

What do you think of the EDL chefdave?

[Franz Fanonipants]

And yeah, in small cased in Africa, (zimbabuwe for example), there has been systemic cases of racism against whites by non-whites.

i'm so glad you're restricted

[chefdave]

What do you think of the EDL chefdave?

I think they're a natural byproduct of multi-culturalism.

[Franz Fanonipants]

I think they're a natural byproduct of multi-culturalism.

fucking fantastic

please aliens wipe out europe asap

[Brosa Luxemburg]

i'm so glad you're restricted

Why? He supported his claims with true facts and then went on to show that it wasn't widespread and that it rarely happens. There was nothing wrong with his post.

[chefdave]

fucking fantastic

please aliens wipe out europe asap

Nice one, you've just advocated genocide on a continental scale. I expect the liberal left won't pull you up on your sick and twisted comments though.

[NewLeft]

Yes it is ... By other whites, generally speaking.

And yeah, in small cased in Africa, (zimbabuwe for example), there has been systemic cases of racism against whites by non-whites.

But overall its rare.
Except the blacks in Zimbabwe have no economic advantage. Zimbabwe is part of the systemic racism against blacks.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Nice one, you've just advocated genocide on a continental scale. I expect the liberal left won't pull you up on your sick and twisted comments though.

big talk from a white supremacist - itt

[Franz Fanonipants]

Why? He supported his claims with true facts and then went on to show that it wasn't widespread and that it rarely happens. There was nothing wrong with his post.

yeah it would be an avowed leftcommunist who believes that zimbabwe has a black supremacist position

[Revolution starts with U]

Nice one, you've just advocated genocide on a continental scale. I expect the liberal left won't pull you up on your sick and twisted comments though.

It's Franz Sillypants. Nobody's really sure when and if he has ever been serious in his life :lol:

[Franz Fanonipants]

It's Franz Sillypants. Nobody's really sure when and if he has ever been serious in his life :lol:

post less

[Revolution starts with U]

post less

Flame bait less, troll :thumbup1:

[RGacky3]

Except the blacks in Zimbabwe have no economic advantage. Zimbabwe is part of the systemic racism against blacks.

Sure, but there were times where there were political racist policies against whites.

Now obviously the whites in that country were in an advantageous economic position due to colonial racism, but that does'nt make the political racism by the government later on NOT racism.


yeah it would be an avowed leftcommunist who believes that zimbabwe has a black supremacist position

I'm saying it did ... Anyway I did'nt know that facts made you a non leftist ...

[Franz Fanonipants]

Now obviously the whites in that country were in an advantageous economic position due to colonial racism, but that does'nt make the political racism by the government later on NOT racism.

can u pls substantiate the political racism or do you just generally say "MUGABE BAD" at loud volumes

[Franz Fanonipants]

Flame bait less, troll :thumbup1:

no one actually finds you funny or thinks you contribute anything other than half-assed bullshit

[RGacky3]

Yeah ... Thats all I say ....

No it's basically selective expropriation of land from whites.

If it was based on class rather than race it would'nt be racism.

As I said, its a small thing, and not that widespread, but you claiming that its IMPOSSIBLE for racism to be against whites is untrue, again a lot of racism has been from whites against other whites.

[chefdave]

no one actually finds you funny or thinks you contribute anything other than half-assed bullshit

Please just go away you vile little troll.

[RGacky3]

no one actually finds you funny or thinks you contribute anything other than half-assed bullshit

I dunno, I see a lot of usefull posts by him, but I guess a lot of people find your "destroy all of europe" shit funny.

[The Machine]

Franz Fanonipants doesn't care about white people.

[Franz Fanonipants]

I dunno, I see a lot of usefull posts by him, but I guess a lot of people find your "destroy all of europe" shit funny.

enough

[NewLeft]

Please just go away you vile little troll.
That's a bit opportunistic, don't you think?


Franz Fanonipants doesn't care about white people.
He doesn't have to.


Yeah ... Thats all I say ....

No it's basically selective expropriation of land from whites.

If it was based on class rather than race it would'nt be racism.

As I said, its a small thing, and not that widespread, but you claiming that its IMPOSSIBLE for racism to be against whites is untrue, again a lot of racism has been from whites against other whites.
Racism is a specific form of discrimination. What do you mean by racism by whites against whites? Like anti-irish sentiment?

Whites were the bourgeois in Zimbabwe, race was class.


Sure, but there were times where there were political racist policies against whites.

Now obviously the whites in that country were in an advantageous economic position due to colonial racism, but that does'nt make the political racism by the government later on NOT racism.
Racism is systemic. There was no systemic racism against whites, there was discrimination within Zimbabwe. It's not semantics, we're talking about [global] capitalism.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Franz Fanonipants doesn't care about white people.

boo this man pt. II

[Franz Fanonipants]

Please just go away you vile little troll.

whatever bro i'm not the idiot white supremacist posting on rev left dot com

[The Machine]

why yu a hater doe

[Ostrinski]

race was class.uh oh

[Franz Fanonipants]

why yu a hater doe

mostly

communism

[NewLeft]

uh oh
?

[The Machine]

big words for a mwtist

[Franz Fanonipants]

big words for a mwtist

hahaha you idiot i'm an m-l

e: idk if you know what that is, since it wasn't mentioned in the manifesto

[Ostrinski]

?


race was class..

[NewLeft]

.

For some reason, I thought you were FF0000.

[Ostrinski]

For some reason, I thought you were FF0000.i am

[The Machine]

i know but if your an ml who complains about how the frankfurt school doesnt hate the west enough and a gung ho anti imperialist you might as well be a third wordlist. i mean to be fair your probably better on race than a lot of these white motherfuckers but your also one of the id politics guys and you adhere to a dead 20th century ideology so i mean

[Franz Fanonipants]

its black avatar Terror

[hatzel]

I think what Brospierre is (not actually) trying to say is that such a claim is structurally antisemitic...

[Franz Fanonipants]

i am

it would make sense

tbh i always think of you and bcbm and ff0000 as like similar dudes

just like i think of bmh as a smarter version of me w/worse politics

[hatzel]

I, on the other hand, am wholly unlike all others *unique*

[Franz Fanonipants]

I, on the other hand, am wholly unlike all others *unique*

jewish anarchism p. much makes it that way

[hatzel]

I'll find a fwend one day, don't you worry...

[Conscript]

This thread just got a lot less interesting.

[hatzel]

This thread just got a lot less interesting.

...are you suggesting that it was interesting before?

[Railyon]

Okay, here's one

Communists are Liberals.

Case in point, CPUSA

Come at me bros

[Conscript]

...are you suggesting that it was interesting before?

Yes. Certainly more when you said it was boring or whatever compared to now.