Green party(US) implodes and more notes from a debate

[Prometeo liberado]

I had to go and see it. Like knowing there's a dead body or the donkey show in Tijuana. You'll never believe the rumors so just have to go and see for yourself. That was pretty much how I justified going down to LA to see this and I was more than just a little embarrassed and dejected.
Here's the lineup:

The following candidates that debated:

Peta Lindsay, nominee of the Party for Socialism and Liberation
Roseanne Barr, seeking the Green Party nomination
Stewart Alexander, nominee of the Socialist Party USA
Rocky Anderson, nominee of the Justice Party
Stephen Durham, nominee of Freedom Socialist Party
Dr. Kent Misplay, seeking the Green Party nomination
James Ogle, seeking the Libertarian Party nomination
Dr. Jill Stein, seeking the Green Party nomination
The big hit of the afternoon was seeing former actress Roseanne Barr attempting to act like she belonged there. With a body guard(?), shiny campaign buttons and glossy literature she more than stuck out and struck out here. See this was a gathering of LA's committed Leftist held at a church that was also feeding the poor and doing day care duty. We don't care about your chauffeured Escalade Roseanne. Apparently the Greens do though, she's one of three nominees seeking to represents the party.
The real fireworks came in the question and answer session. It seems as though many of the Greens there have an issues with Dr.Stein and Barr with their inability to be anything but wishy-washy when asked about aide to Israel. Ooooh really! People in the audience were screaming and demanding that they come clean as Zionists. Some were almost asked to leave. Never have I seen an organization so totally at odds with itself. It had all the trappings of an ambush. And poor "Rocky" Anderson looked even more out of his liberal element trying to shrink into himself. Surrounded by all these venemous Greens, not to mention the laying in wait commies. At this point someone from the Freedom Socialist side(seated to the left) started shouting "Permanent Revolution!!" and the hipster kids from PSL(seated on the right) couldn't be bothered to look up from their cellies. The only smart one was Stuart Alexander and the entire SP nation for sitting this one out. But their absence today reflects their class analysis, vacant.
Short of everyone calling for left unity before falling into a sectarian frenzy this would have been been tragic. Instead its just another election year. I hate this time of year.
http://www.pslweb.org/votepsl/2012/pages/live-video-lindsay-barr-debate.html

[Philosopher Jay]

It would be nice if we could see this debate on youtube or some place.

[Prometeo liberado]

Im still trying to find the whole thing. This is the best I could find so far. On a side note. Whatever your feelings are about the PSL they always seem to be the ones who help make events like these run smoother. Bringing people, equipment and getting it on the net. Enjoy.
http://www.pslweb.org/votepsl/2012/pages/live-video-lindsay-barr-debate.html

[Drosophila]

It's funny how these Greens actually think they'll change anything if elected.

[NewLeft]

At around 1:28:00, there's the Israel question. It's actually a very fiesty audience, damn. They have the right attitude, but they're misdirecting their frustration to the green party. This is what I absolutely can't stand, the fact that they can't even have a discussion. I know you want to close the world bank and IMF, but you're not going to accomplish that by screaming any louder! And that woman screaming at Barr, she suffers from the whole self-righteousness that we all hate.

[Prometeo liberado]

At around 1:28:00, there's the Israel question. It's actually a very feisty audience, damn. They have the right attitude, but they're misdirecting their frustration to the green party. This is what I absolutely can't stand, the fact that they can't even have a discussion. I know you want to close the world bank and IMF, but you're not going to accomplish that by screaming any louder! And that woman screaming at Barr, she suffers from the whole self-righteousness that we all hate.

Thats right when the Greens imploded. The frustration was that certain Green candidates, Barr and Stein, would not answer the question. Apparently this question has been dodged by Barr and the other female Green candidate. Because they are both Jewish this thing started to take on an Semitic tone. A couple of people were almost thrown out. What got me was that this was put on and mostly funded by the Maggie Phair foundation. She is a life long SP'er yet no one from the SP showed up.

[NewLeft]

Thats right when the Greens imploded. The frustration was that certain Green candidates, Barr and Stein, would not answer the question. Apparently this question has been dodged by Barr and the other female Green candidate. Because they are both Jewish this thing started to take on an Semitic tone. A couple of people were almost thrown out. What got me was that this was put on and mostly funded by the Maggie Phair foundation. She is a life long SP'er yet no one from the SP showed up.
It's fucked up how their focus is on Israel.. I don't blame them for dodging the question, there really was no reason for their hostility.

[Prometeo liberado]

It's fucked up how their focus is on Israel.. I don't blame them for dodging the question, there really was no reason for their hostility.

Ya but this hostility is born from frustration and a deep commitment to their party. Its a very simple question, yes or no on cutting aide to Israel. I'd be rightly pissed if the candidates in my party started taking on the characteristic dodging of questions that the Dem's and GOP do. But their should be a certain amount of decorum and respect due to the mere fact that there are other people there. This was a party thing not meant to be hashed out in that manner in that forum. Just shows the total disarray and confusion of the Greens. Shit just look at their roster of candidates. Barr sais she wants a new synthesis of capitalism and socialism. DA FOK!!!!!! She's like a strange twisted B-list celebrity version of Bob Avakian. I HATE THIS TIME OF YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NewLeft]

Ya but this hostility is born from frustration and a deep commitment to their party. Its a very simple question, yes or no on cutting aide to Israel. I'd be rightly pissed if the candidates in my party started taking on the characteristic dodging of questions that the Dem's and GOP do. But their should be a certain amount of decorum and respect due to the mere fact that there are other people there. This was a party thing not meant to be hashed out in that manner in that forum. Just shows the total disarray and confusion of the Greens. Shit just look at their roster of candidates. Barr sais she wants a new synthesis of capitalism and socialism. DA FOK!!!!!! She's like a strange twisted B-list celebrity version of Bob Avakian. I HATE THIS TIME OF YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The greens actually think they have a chance of winning, whereas all the revolutionaries were pretty open about everything. As a bourgeois party, all the same rules of the game applied to the reformists: no talking about the hot buttons, careful speech..etc. But you're right, it's kinda annoying how she never addressed any of the points in the question, but instead went back to talk about slavery. :confused:

[TrotskistMarx]

I am not a psychiatrist, psychologist. But you know for some reason most people of this world wether they are right-wingers, or left-winger tend to be too sectarian and too group-narcissist. People in this world think that the whole world is like a major league baseball series. And maybe that's why even within the left-wing of USA there is so much party-narcissism, where people get very attached to their own party while fighting against any form of united-frontism within the left.

And indeed The Green Party is too elitist, it is full of middle class bourgeoise people. I was in a yahoo Green Party debate group and they banned me from posting because i used to post marxist articles in that group. I think that bourgeoise-reformist parties that are in favor of a Norway high-taxes on the rich style of welfare-capitalism are too authoritarian.



.



I had to go and see it. Like knowing there's a dead body or the donkey show in Tijuana. You'll never believe the rumors so just have to go and see for yourself. That was pretty much how I justified going down to LA to see this and I was more than just a little embarrassed and dejected.
Here's the lineup:

The following candidates that debated:

Peta Lindsay, nominee of the Party for Socialism and Liberation
Roseanne Barr, seeking the Green Party nomination
Stewart Alexander, nominee of the Socialist Party USA
Rocky Anderson, nominee of the Justice Party
Stephen Durham, nominee of Freedom Socialist Party
Dr. Kent Misplay, seeking the Green Party nomination
James Ogle, seeking the Libertarian Party nomination
Dr. Jill Stein, seeking the Green Party nomination
The big hit of the afternoon was seeing former actress Roseanne Barr attempting to act like she belonged there. With a body guard(?), shiny campaign buttons and glossy literature she more than stuck out and struck out here. See this was a gathering of LA's committed Leftist held at a church that was also feeding the poor and doing day care duty. We don't care about your chauffeured Escalade Roseanne. Apparently the Greens do though, she's one of three nominees seeking to represents the party.
The real fireworks came in the question and answer session. It seems as though many of the Greens there have an issues with Dr.Stein and Barr with their inability to be anything but wishy-washy when asked about aide to Israel. Ooooh really! People in the audience were screaming and demanding that they come clean as Zionists. Some were almost asked to leave. Never have I seen an organization so totally at odds with itself. It had all the trappings of an ambush. And poor "Rocky" Anderson looked even more out of his liberal element trying to shrink into himself. Surrounded by all these venemous Greens, not to mention the laying in wait commies. At this point someone from the Freedom Socialist side(seated to the left) started shouting "Permanent Revolution!!" and the hipster kids from PSL(seated on the right) couldn't be bothered to look up from their cellies. The only smart one was Stuart Alexander and the entire SP nation for sitting this one out. But their absence today reflects their class analysis, vacant.
Short of everyone calling for left unity before falling into a sectarian frenzy this would have been been tragic. Instead its just another election year. I hate this time of year.
http://www.pslweb.org/votepsl/2012/pages/live-video-lindsay-barr-debate.html

[Prometeo liberado]

The greens actually think they have a chance of winning, whereas all the revolutionaries were pretty open about everything. As a bourgeois party, all the same rules of the game applied to the reformists: no talking about the hot buttons, careful speech..etc. But you're right, it's kinda annoying how she never addressed any of the points in the question, but instead went back to talk about slavery. :confused:

I was scrathing my head as well when the slavery thing came out. Absolute smoke screen. I am still hurting inside from having witnessed it. Say what you want about Democratic Centralism but this open disunity shit would never, and didn't, happen amongst those parties practising it.

[KurtFF8]

It would be nice if we could see this debate on youtube or some place.

It seems the PSL put the whole thing up on their Ustream http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/22025331

[Martin Blank]

Whoever made the video of the whole debate needed to find a way to turn down or off the music in the background. It was just loud enough to be annoying. Also, what's with it only playing on the left side?

EDIT: Video drops out about 30 seconds in to Barr's speech, and no audio for Barr and Durham. Lindsey audio spotty; video cuts in and out for a little bit.

[WanderingCactus]

I actually laughed a bit when I saw Roseanne's name on the list.

[Kronsteen]

Were any actual, er, green issues mentioned?

[Prometeo liberado]

As for the audio this was a church so the acoustics were a bit funky. I have no idea where the music was coming from. The candidates were not mic'd so all the sound had to picked up from the mic off the camera. As to filming from the left, they had to film from the middle of the pews and people couldn't sit there. So by choice everyone who filmed did so on one side so as to not interfere with seating on at least one side.

[Geiseric]

I kinda want to debate a capitalist in front of a bunch of people so I can win... I did once on Immigration and he threw in a bunch of straw men arguements, "They don't pay taxes!" What a twat.

[HEAD ICE]

At around 1:28:00, there's the Israel question. It's actually a very fiesty audience, damn. They have the right attitude, but they're misdirecting their frustration to the green party. This is what I absolutely can't stand, the fact that they can't even have a discussion. I know you want to close the world bank and IMF, but you're not going to accomplish that by screaming any louder! And that woman screaming at Barr, she suffers from the whole self-righteousness that we all hate.

Maybe it will make them realize that the Green Party is just as capitalist (in content) as the Dems and Repubs and can't be taken as an 'alternative' to anything. If we support the independence of the working class we must be fiercely against the Green Party. They offer nothing.

[Prometeo liberado]

Maybe it will make them realize that the Green Party is just as capitalist (in content) as the Dems and Repubs and can't be taken as an 'alternative' to anything. If we support the independence of the working class we must be fiercely against the Green Party. They offer nothing.

I couldn't agree more. Those who spew reform and liberalism whilst acting as if they are in fact the only viable opposition to the ruling elite divide the workers and lead them astray. Like a parasite it must be dealt with and forever banished from the host.