The real example of US ignorance.

[Hexen]

From this article (http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/04/19-0) I found this picture.

https://www.commondreams.org/sites/commondreams.org/files/imagecache/headline_image/article_images/slc-photo.jpg

You know the very term "The People Rule Not Corporate Rule" as depicted in this picture is an example of the main source of the failure of the modern progressive movement where they don't even understand the context what the "People" actually mean if they read the small print on the trickster's contract. What they fail to understand that the "People" under the US context actually means the bourgeoisie not the working classes (therefore it actually means the "corporate"). It's the same thing that most people believe that the consitution/bill of rights/etc were written for everyone but they fail to understand it was actually written for the bourgeois...

In short: Is this perhaps a example of the failure of modern progressive movements, or are these people depicted in the picture are actually liberals? Well either if liberals fail to understand the capitalist system or their using people to place them as the new bourgeoisie (the same tactic that the capitalists in Mexico did as the video shown below as history has shown).

sEPWPOBMMK8

[Railyon]

So most people have no class analysis... what else is new?

[Hexen]

So most people have no class analysis... what else is new?

Yep this what I was trying to point out, not only it is the main obstacle that leftists have, it also demonstrates the laughable failure of modern progressive movements as well.

[Railyon]

Comes down to what counts as progressive - "progressive" as depicted here seems to be mainly liberals (in the US sense) disillusioned with "big business" but not going all the way for whatever reasons.

The more important question is though, if there is such a wave of resentment against the most visible agonies of capitalism, how can the left tap into that?

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Comes down to what counts as progressive - "progressive" as depicted here seems to be mainly liberals (in the US sense) disillusioned with "big business" but not going all the way for whatever reasons.

The more important question is though, if there is such a wave of resentment against the most visible agonies of capitalism, how can the left tap into that?

By analysing the Workplace relations of the workers' to their production and boss, Comrade. A Simple example: In 1960 the USA's GNP was around 900 Billion, in 2010 it was 14 Trillion dollars. Workers' productivity, what the employee gives the employer, rose exponentially, while his wage stagnated. Ask the liberals if the average US Citizen lives 14 times better than their parents! Workers' Real Wages in the USA have been stagnating since the 70's, forced to take on debt to raise their standard of living to keep up with society; but since they had no rising wages, they could not pay their rising interest rates=Housing Crisis. Marx explained this to me.

"Owners of capital will stimulate working class to buy more and more of expensive goods, houses and technology, pushing them to take more and more expensive credits, until their debt becomes unbearable. The unpaid debt will lead to bankruptcy of banks which will have to be nationalized and State will have to take the road which will eventually lead to communism." Karl Marx, Das Kapital

Amazing man i tell you.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Now, had the Workers Controlled their own Workplace they would not have stagnated their own wages and given it to someone else, they would have paid themselves according to their rise in productivity. CAPITALISM is the Problem.

[Railyon]

Because plastering the streets with marxist theory has done so well in the past.

You know people will just shrug it off, so the question still stands.

Also
>>implying I didn't read Capital

[MotherCossack]

By analysing the Workplace relations of the workers' to their production and boss, Comrade. A Simple example: In 1960 the USA's GNP was around 900 Billion, in 2010 it was 14 Trillion dollars. Workers' productivity, what the employee gives the employer, rose exponentially, while his wage stagnated. Ask the liberals if the average US Citizen lives 14 times better than their parents! Workers' Real Wages in the USA have been stagnating since the 70's, forced to take on debt to raise their standard of living to keep up with society; but since they had no rising wages, they could not pay their rising interest rates=Housing Crisis. Marx explained this to me.
Karl Marx, Das Kapital

Amazing man i tell you.

absolutely .... heavenly.... bring it on.....!
yeah....!?... well go on then.... i said ... BRING IT ON!...... la di da .... da di la... H-E-L-L-O....
is there anyone there.... can we have communism now.... i'm really hungry!

i know.... but ... well... it sounds such a brilliant logical theory/prediction.
and it is nowhere near as ludicrous as the traditional christian option.....put up with it meekly and wait patiently... on death expect to mount the fluffy cloud stairs, to the sweet sound of a heavenly chorus of angels bleating, and enter the kingdom of heaven... a paradise like we, none of us, could possibly imagine.!!!! Yeah?
I dont think so...!
no lets do it like the marx bloke said... on our own terms... and before we are all worm food...trouble is i cant seem to silence this niggling little voice.....' are you serious? what?... communism?... everyone?... here?....with this lot...? you're having a larf aint you!?

and when.... if not in my lifetime... what good is that... its not a dream i'm after.. not a pretty story, or a clever theory...

" talking the talk does not make the world a fairer place!" ME

[RedAtheist]

You know the very term "The People Rule Not Corporate Rule" as depicted in this picture is an example of the main source of the failure of the modern progressive movement where they don't even understand the context what the "People" actually mean if they read the small print on the trickster's contract. What they fail to understand that the "People" under the US context actually means the bourgeoisie not the working classes (therefore it actually means the "corporate"). It's the same thing that most people believe that the consitution/bill of rights/etc were written for everyone but they fail to understand it was actually written for the bourgeois...

I could be wrong but I think you are misinterpreting the sign. They're not necessarily saying that people do rule, they are saying that they should rule. Now of course they still lack an understanding of the way the world is divided into classes and their slogan sounds very vague and cheesy because of this, but lets not assume that they are more naive than we know them to be.

I certainly would like to see Marxist analysis become more popular though.

[Tim Finnegan]

lol stupid proles need to read some lenin

[Rooster]

Karl Marx, Das Kapital

Amazing man i tell you.

I'm not sure if you're trolling or not, but that quote does not appear in Capital.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Because plastering the streets with marxist theory has done so well in the past.

You know people will just shrug it off, so the question still stands.

Also
>>implying I didn't read Capital

No no , not implying anything. The thing that these typical leftist-liberals care about is "inequality". Well, inequality is precisely measured by this relation of the worker to his boss, the wage-vs-productivity. So i guess a good way of introduction would be "Inequality. Where does it Come From?" or something like this that tries to zoom in on the relation of how some people can have all this wealth and many working people end up with nothing. It gets very good reception i tell you, because it goes to the core of what people instinctively feel is unjust, unnatural; inequality.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

I'm not sure if you're trolling or not, but that quote does not appear in Capital.

It's in a letter from Marx to Engels that i think Engels included in the Second Volume of Das Kapital, Band 2.

[Rooster]

It's in a letter from Marx to Engels that i think Engels included in the Second Volume of Das Kapital, Band 2.

Link me to it

[Railyon]

Well, inequality is precisely measured by this relation of the worker to his boss, the wage-vs-productivity. So i guess a good way of introduction would be "Inequality. Where does it Come From?" or something like this that tries to zoom in on the relation of how some people can have all this wealth and many working people end up with nothing. It gets very good reception i tell you, because it goes to the core of what people instinctively feel is unjust, unnatural; inequality.

That only works as long as you don't talk to someone with a petty-bourgeois mentality though, they'll argue that your boss has worked his way up and some other nonsense and we only need to "make the system more humane". Maybe I'm just jaded though...

[TrotskistMarx]

Hello, you are right. You know here is a youtube video by a progressive writter who passed away some years ago Joe Bageant, talking about how anti-change, and really oppressive and exploiter are the middle classes of the USA. And how they try to put down those lower class blue collar low-wage workers. This is related to what you are saying, that mainstream US politics, and even mainstream college bourgeoise progressive liberal writters such as the writters of http://www.thenation.com http://www.alternet.org and many other alternative progressive liberal news websites that are *supposed* to be in favor of *the lower classes*, are not really in favor of the US *lower classes* who are the great majority of american citizens, almost about 60% of USA. But those liberal elitist college bourgeoise-reformist liberal sites are more or less in favor of the elitist traditional American Middle Classes who are really living a life of their time, and their times of their lives, who drive luxury cars, eat very well, and are Bill Gates compared with the lower real poor class of USA:

Here is the video of Joe Bageant on how he hates the right-wing anti-change traditional Calvinist, moralist, Brady Bunch Family style middle class. On a side note, that moralist, traditionalist middle class hates The Subhumans, The Melvins, The Doors, The Exploited, Suicidal Tendencies, etc. And are more into adult comtemporary music like Eltohn John, Rod Stewart, Enya, and Celine Dion !!


vYaqEgyrh1M


.


From this article (http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/04/19-0) I found this picture.

https://www.commondreams.org/sites/commondreams.org/files/imagecache/headline_image/article_images/slc-photo.jpg

You know the very term "The People Rule Not Corporate Rule" as depicted in this picture is an example of the main source of the failure of the modern progressive movement where they don't even understand the context what the "People" actually mean if they read the small print on the trickster's contract. What they fail to understand that the "People" under the US context actually means the bourgeoisie not the working classes (therefore it actually means the "corporate"). It's the same thing that most people believe that the consitution/bill of rights/etc were written for everyone but they fail to understand it was actually written for the bourgeois...

In short: Is this perhaps a example of the failure of modern progressive movements, or are these people depicted in the picture are actually liberals? Well either if liberals fail to understand the capitalist system or their using people to place them as the new bourgeoisie (the same tactic that the capitalists in Mexico did as the video shown below as history has shown).

sEPWPOBMMK8

[TrotskistMarx]

And you know something? I don't hate the middle classes, not even the upper middle classes, because even though they are anti-socials, individualists, materialists, etc. they are indeed hardworkers, tax-payers and victims of this system, of the real exploiter ruler class which are really the 2% oligarchic rulers. Even though many of them earn a lot of money something around 100,000 dollars a year and even more than that, they are victims as well of the oligarchic capitalist system. In fact even though many of the middle class citizens earn 100,000 a year, they are economically exploited by the US evil taxing system and economically terrorist free market system, because the pure free market system of USA charges people for every thing. Even the roads all over the USA are full of tolls, parking lots charges lots of money to doctors, lawyers and high-wage workers to park their cars.

In other words the fat income of 100,000 dollars a year that they recieve is really a scam, a trap. Because those 100,000 dollars are really trickled up back to the owners of USA, thru the payment of utility services, monthly bills, and the super-expensive mortgage payments, super-expensive apartment and houses monthly rent bills and the other monthly bills that they have to pay just to survive.

So I just wanted to add that the middle class is not a real exploiter oppressor class. They are victims of capitalism. However because of the inferiority feelings, inferiority complexes, unchecked appetites, and low-self esteems that many people of the middle classes and lower middle class might have. They do what ever is at their disposal and control to try to identify with the philosophy and way of life of the upper ruler governor class of USA and they do whatever possible to try to emulate and imitate the icons of the upper class of USA such as Donald Trump, Brad Pit, Tom Cruise, Shakira, Angelina Jolie, Jennifer Lopez, Marc Anthony, Obama, Michelle Obama, etc.

PS: Maybe that's why The Democratic Party is still strong, because even though millions of US workers are lower-class, low-wage workers. Millions of other US workers are lower-middle class workers, and middle class workers. And in America most people even poor lower-class people try to emulate, imitate and identify with the icons and celebrities of the pompous upper ruler class of the country !!

PS 2: Another point i wanted to mention is that in a book I am reading by the writter poet Edgar Allan Poe, he wrote that humans tend to love and support things and persons that are full of pomposity, luxuries, bright images and wealth. And that humans to reject what ever is humble, what ever lacks a pompous bright image. So for that psychologic reason most people in USA tend to prefer for US rulers Mitt Romney and Obama, than any other third party anti-war progressive option.




.



From this article (http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/04/19-0) I found this picture.

https://www.commondreams.org/sites/commondreams.org/files/imagecache/headline_image/article_images/slc-photo.jpg

You know the very term "The People Rule Not Corporate Rule" as depicted in this picture is an example of the main source of the failure of the modern progressive movement where they don't even understand the context what the "People" actually mean if they read the small print on the trickster's contract. What they fail to understand that the "People" under the US context actually means the bourgeoisie not the working classes (therefore it actually means the "corporate"). It's the same thing that most people believe that the consitution/bill of rights/etc were written for everyone but they fail to understand it was actually written for the bourgeois...

In short: Is this perhaps a example of the failure of modern progressive movements, or are these people depicted in the picture are actually liberals? Well either if liberals fail to understand the capitalist system or their using people to place them as the new bourgeoisie (the same tactic that the capitalists in Mexico did as the video shown below as history has shown).

sEPWPOBMMK8

[SpiritiualMarxist]

I think its more productive to look at people like this as an opportunity to educate them on some stuff rather than write them off as fail liberals or to even think of them as such. Basically, as a revolutionary you're shooting yourself in the foot for this reason; most of these protestors are working class regular people who were indoctrinated and/or not exposed to believe this stuff. To say even think that they're failures is not productive to building a movement because you're automatically taking an elitist stance that will not be attractive to people.

I propose that we instead look at it this way; These people recognize at least that people in charge of these corporation have vastly more power in this socio-political system, well that is the first step of radicalizing.All they need is a little more education in formulating class analysis.

Besides being dangerous in terms of coming off as an idealogical elitist, there's practical danger in posting this kind of stuff on social media and forums because what do you think is gonna be the reaction of individuals who currently are in that first step process? They're gonna think you're a dusche or troll and be instantly turned off to you because of the antagonism.

In conclusion, the antagonism towards other well meaning working class folk is not necessary, stick to challenging the system and the bourgeois propagators who try to deflect attention away from themselves. Its not these protestors who are failing, its actually the bourgeois using a pretty effective tactic that they always use.

[Geiseric]

The bourgeois have ways of dumbing people down, like the school system, which doesn't teach about anything like it happened in reality. Lol according to my economics teacher, "The corn industry is a shining example of a free market."

Other things like celebrity obsession, sports, sex, drugs, also are put into the mix to make people numb and temporarily happy even though they are miserable.

Also, many people aren't so fortunate as us who have computers and can go on marxists.org to read about Marxism and politics. Most people don't have the time or energy.

But it's our duties as people who understand the class struggle to enlighten our fellow proletarians before things collapse and turn into Fascism. At this moment most people would go with the Tea Party than us. This has always been the case, the bourgeois have the monopoly on mass press and their propaganda and brainwashing will beat ours in quality, quantity, and laughability on a Hollywood scale. This means we have to get to work and not fall into the abyss of hopelessness that the majority of proletarians have fallen into.

WE MUST OVERCOME!

[Tim Finnegan]

Tell me more about how people who don't share your politics are addle-brained simpletons.