Space mining and James Cameron

[milkmiku]

Viral Market campaign for Gravtart 2 or a serious idea?

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/james-cameron-launching-asteroid-mining-company-204737338.html


A new company called Planetary Resources held its official launch (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=AqqNkS0.wKvsJWz.k_Y8aysSH9EA;_ylu=X3oDMTFocm9 hZXB0BG1pdANCbG9nIEJvZHkEcG9zAzIEc2VjA01lZGlhQmxvZ 0JvZHlUZW1wQXNzZW1ibHk-;_ylg=X3oDMTNlM2Z1MXRqBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRw c3RhaWQDOTJjYTAzZTctMzIyOS0zZWI2LWJlZWUtNGVlZWVlYz c0ZDExBHBzdGNhdANvcmlnaW5hbHN8dGhlc2lkZXNob3cEcHQD c3RvcnlwYWdlBHRlc3QD;_ylv=0/SIG=12jbcg8ln/EXP=1336006523/**http%3A//www.museumofflight.org/event/2012/apr/24/future-of-space) today promising a new venture that would merge "space exploration and natural resources," while adding "trillions" of dollars to the global GDP. The company counts some heavy-hitters amongst its founders and financial backers, including filmmaker/explorer James Cameron, Google co-founders Larry Page and Eric Schmidt, Ross Perot Jr. Charles Simonyi, formerly of Microsoft.
The group's somewhat vague press release has the site Technology Review (http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/mimssbits/27776/?ref=rss) thinking the new company's goal "sounds like asteroid mining."
Planetary Resources announced its launch on Tuesday morning at an event held at the Charles Simonyi Space Gallery at The Museum of Flight in Seattle.
And while they have set up several online destinations (http://www.seattlepi.com/business/boeing/article/Space-and-tech-bigwigs-back-new-venture-to-help-3491700.php) for the company, including Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Planetary-Resources/160940827358574) and Twitter (https://twitter.com/#%21/planetaryrsrcs) pages, no more specific information has been revealed to the public.
You can read the group's full press release after the jump, which promises, "a new space venture with a mission to help ensure humanity's prosperity."



What could go wrong, I mean we already manage the resources of the earth fairly and efficiently.

[l'Enfermé]

It would take many more decade for space-mining to become cost-efficient or even possible at all, however, it's somewhat of an issue when it comes to capitalism; capitalist expansion into space would make never-ending economic growth possible and it would abolish some contradictions in capitalism, since capitalism will then deal with infinite, instead of finite, resources.

[citizen of industry]

Hmm...well, we don't use a gold standard anymore, so the need for precious metals is basically comes down to their use value now, right? Like electronic components, luxury goods, etc. As for industrial elements, like iron, carbon, etc. is there really a shortage?

There will be an oil shortage, but doesn't oil come from organic materials, meaning you'd have to find a planet that has/had life at some point?

The cost/benefit of space mining just isn't adding up to me. Unless we really do have a shortage of elements. I don't know.

[NGNM85]

Hmm...well, we don't use a gold standard anymore, so the need for precious metals is basically comes down to their use value now, right? Like electronic components, luxury goods, etc. As for industrial elements, like iron, carbon, etc. is there really a shortage?

There will be an oil shortage, but doesn't oil come from organic materials, meaning you'd have to find a planet that has/had life at some point?

The cost/benefit of space mining just isn't adding up to me. Unless we really do have a shortage of elements. I don't know.

Certain rare earth elements are in short supply, and may cause problems in the near future. Of primary concern are dysprosium, and neodymium, which are, typcally, used in high-efficiency batteries, and electric motors. As greeen technologies take off; demand for these rare elements is sure to increase, and this could cause problems.

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2012/rare-earth-alternative-energy-0409.html

Like the other guy said; as the space industry stands, today, this is a pipe dream. In order to be feasible this would require some revolutionary development in propulsion, or, more likely, the construction of a space elavator, which could be constructed using carbon nanotubes, provided we figure out how to shape them into large structures. (Which would should be trying to do, anyways.)

[milkmiku]

UPDATE.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/consortium-investigates-mining-nearby-asteroids-for-rare-materials/story-fnb64oi6-1226335425233

Wonder what will happen Tuesday. I cannot wait to watch the buzz on the conspiracy sites.

[milkmiku]

Like the other guy said; as the space industry stands, today, this is a pipe dream. In order to be feasible this would require some revolutionary development in propulsion, or, more likely, the construction of a space elavator, which could be constructed using carbon nanotubes, provided we figure out how to shape them into large structures. (Which would should be trying to do, anyways.)

Actually not, The current plan is to move them to near earth orbit and mine them over time and to capture small asteroids for return to earth. Which with today's current technology is possible, and since some rare earth elements are predicted to be exhausted within 50 to 60 years, the economic interest is there.

http://kiss.caltech.edu/study/asteroid/asteroid_final_report.pdf

Also

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_mining#Motive

At 1997 prices, a relatively small metallic asteroid with a diameter of 1.6 km (0.99 mi) contains more than 20 trillion US dollars worth of industrial and precious metals.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_mining#cite_note-MTS1997-0)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_mining#cite_note-1)

This has the conspiracy forums talking about the supposed plan to reduce the planets population to 500 million via asteroid mishap.

Truth is it is just another super rich corporation preparing to capitalize on the scarcity of sertian rare earths in the near future. I do admit though, the idea of something going wrong and resulting in a large rock striking the earth dose exist.

[milkmiku]

UPDOTE

http://www.planetaryresources.com/team/

Dem investors. Rich going to get richer. Forever and ever it seems, especially since they cannot off load all of that tasty metal on the market with out crushing it, they will have neigh unlimited equity though.

[Nox]

I stopped taking it seriously as soon as I read that James Cameron was involved.

[milkmiku]

I stopped taking it seriously as soon as I read that James Cameron was involved.


I suggest you check the investors and other people involved. Camaroon is there to get the PR.

[Yazman]

There's a thread about this in the Science & Environment forum and I just don't understand the fucked up attitude some (not all) revolutionary leftists have towards this program.

Especially the ridiculous "omg JAMES CAMERON's involved, that's so fucking stupid, this program SUCKS!" shit. Of all this though the thing that makes me laugh the most is the... not sure whether it's just naive, or plain ignorant kneejerk reaction people have of "omg evil capitalists, they're going to have mines up and running on asteroids, poor proletarians are going to be exploited so badly, we must oppose this!" Get real people, seriously.

However, Instead of paraphrasing myself extensively again I'm just going to quote my post and chuck it in a spoiler tag so y'all OIers can feel free to read & respond to it:



The attitudes here blow my mind.


Why the fuck would these bastards want that useless prick Cameron's help?Because James Cameron has something that most people, even many governments, aren't willing to contribute to space exploration - a fuckload of money. My attitude is, space programs need the money, they routinely beg for it and get starved while bloated bourgeois oligarchies pump yet more money into bailouts and military programs. If a few venture capitalists, including James Cameron, are interested in putting up the damn money themselves, I say it's a good thing, even if it IS coming from capitalists.

As far as why he's interested, James Cameron is interested for the same reason he's helped to fund deep sea expeditions and exploration - because he's a proponent of expanding exploration and scientific endeavours in the field. He's also been involved in lobbying for Mars-related stuff before I believe.

Really, I'm not sure why y'all are so opposed to this. I think it's a great idea. Space exploration is important and if we can viably mine asteroids, so much the better, especially as we will not have to worry about environmental concerns, or health concerns, as mines on earth are so often problematic with.

Even if we simply consider the impacts such a program will have on space exploration, and simply technology in our lives in a broad sense - many people don't realise the drastic impact on technology space programs have already had, from computing, to broadcasting, to aeronautical technology, etc. The ability to fly to an asteroid, land, get samples, and fly back, and the development along the way will provide much of value both on earth and in space.

The more funding that goes into endeavours like this the better, regardless of the source (with the sole exception of military forces - I do not support or condone militarisation of space). It's also worth mentioning that this isn't just some random idea proposed by a single team - NASA is gearing towards such a mission as well, and the Japanese space agency has already sent probes to land on asteroids, take samples, and return to earth.


Sci-Fi becoming real...Space Corporatism Elitism. Only the elite and wealthy will have access to space.

Also I think you're getting ahead of yourself here. Currently only a tiny group of highly trained state employees have access to space, even considering the "space tourism" which Virgin planned to support but haven't gotten anything off the ground yet, and all that would be, is a low orbit flight.

Furthermore, romanticism about "omg seeing the earth from orbit" aside what's really the big deal here? While I am a proponent of space exploration, this isn't Star Trek, it's reality, the year 2012, where space travel is extremely dangerous at best, and even when we develop the ability to send humans to an asteroid to collect samples, it isn't going to be some sort of trip that most people will want to go on, it's going to be an extremely dangerous endeavour. Even being IN space is bad for your health due to the negative effects of microgravity.

You shouldn't be characterising this like it's some sort of viable mass transit idea or something - the idea of space travel being accessible to the masses like planes or cars, is absolutely absurd at best. It's a science fiction idea that isn't going to be achieved by venture capitalists, and likely one that we won't even see in the next hundred years, let alone by 2020 as these guys claim they will have their fuel depot built and launched by. It's a pipe dream, and it's one that nobody on earth today will ever live to see (in my opinion). Going into space long-term right now in 2012 requires a lot of training and some sort of scientific expertise, it's not something that it's even possible to make available to the masses, given the danger, the lack of technology, and the lack of fuel. If the world ends up like Star Wars in 2020 then you can trot out the ridiculous "space corporate elitism" statement, but until then it's just patently absurd.

Space travel right now is by its very nature exclusive. Just because a few capitalists happen to be funding this program, it doesn't mean we should reject it. On the contrary - the more funding and development we can get into space travel and exploration, it will become less exclusive and safer. Issues of ownership and property in space will of course become important but are basically irrelevant, since no corporation exists that has the ability or capability to even put people beyond low earth orbit, let alone have some sort of ridiculous cyberpunk "colony of exploited workers on mars."

Even if such colonies in space do come to exist, they won't be manned by workers, they will be manned by the same people that planned space colonies in orbit and on the moon are planned to have - astronauts, who are generally ex-military or scientists, and usually who have a massive amount of training and education. They aren't workers. If we ever do see proletarians exploited in space, it's NOT going to be in any of our lifetimes.

[milkmiku]

There's a thread about this in the Science & Environment forum and I just don't understand the fucked up attitude some (not all) revolutionary leftists have towards this program.

Especially the ridiculous "omg JAMES CAMERON's involved, that's so fucking stupid, this program SUCKS!" shit. Of all this though the thing that makes me laugh the most is the... not sure whether it's just naive, or plain ignorant kneejerk reaction people have of "omg evil capitalists, they're going to have mines up and running on asteroids, poor proletarians are going to be exploited so badly, we must oppose this!" Get real people, seriously.

However, Instead of paraphrasing myself extensively again I'm just going to quote my post and chuck it in a spoiler tag so y'all OIers can feel free to read & respond to it:





Mister Cameron is not involved for his financial clout, which is insignificant when compare to other investors. See
http://www.planetaryresources.com/team/
Jammy boy is likely there for PR and because his name is a name most people know. His views are well known.

Knowing the economic system, The corporation involved will have a monopoly on resources if this succeeds in the level they wish. Just 1/4 of a rock up there could have enough of some elements to crush the market in an instant. Meaning they cannot off load it all at one time and can use it as equity, making them very very rich.

I agree with your point somewhat, but this will not benefit the working class significantly. It will just improve some space exploration techniques. Any technology advances from this will not be in public hands for years.

One group of people monopolizing on elements that are crucial to most technology is not a good thing at all.

[Raúl Duke]

The whole thing sounds cool and all...

But I still think it's going to take a while before it lifts off.

[milkmiku]

But I still think it's going to take a while before it lifts off.


Ten years tops.

Skylon spacecraft: 'Revolutionary' engine design tested
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17874276

There is big big big money behind this, more money is being made for it as we speak
http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2012/04/27/how-billionaire-asteroid-miners-make-money-without-mining-asteroids/

[Zav]

Ten years tops.

Been said before.
https://farm2.static.flickr.com/1382/709221779_7afc3b9eba.jpg

[Yazman]

Ten years tops.

Skylon spacecraft: 'Revolutionary' engine design tested
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17874276

There is big big big money behind this, more money is being made for it as we speak
http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2012/04/27/how-billionaire-asteroid-miners-make-money-without-mining-asteroids/

The more money invested into space exploration, the better. I fully support this program.

We have to keep in mind that it's going to be a mission to an asteroid to take samples, and might not end up even being manned at all.

ALSO, it's worth mentioning that one of NASA's new main goals is to do the same thing - land on an asteroid, collect samples, and come back. The Japanese space agency has sent robots to asteroids on such missions before with limited success.

This is a great program and one we should all support, imo.

[milkmiku]

The more money invested into space exploration, the better. I fully support this program.

We have to keep in mind that it's going to be a mission to an asteroid to take samples, and might not end up even being manned at all.

ALSO, it's worth mentioning that one of NASA's new main goals is to do the same thing - land on an asteroid, collect samples, and come back. The Japanese space agency has sent robots to asteroids on such missions before with limited success.

This is a great program and one we should all support, imo.


While I agree with you, I know this is being done to secure resources. Not for the betterment of anyone, sure we will reap the scarps of what ever advancement comes along, but it just means the Capitalist ruling class will have far more power than ever before. I just cannot throw my support behind that.

Did you read

http://kiss.caltech.edu/study/asteroid/asteroid_final_report.pdf

It lays out the entire plan. Give it a read.

[Yazman]

While I agree with you, I know this is being done to secure resources. Not for the betterment of anyone, sure we will reap the scarps of what ever advancement comes along, but it just means the Capitalist ruling class will have far more power than ever before. I just cannot throw my support behind that.

Did you read

http://kiss.caltech.edu/study/asteroid/asteroid_final_report.pdf

It lays out the entire plan. Give it a read.

It seems like that report is for NASA's plan, not the Google-Cameron-etc group.

However, I will take a look nonetheless. Mind you, I just don't see why securing resources from an asteroid is a bad thing simply because it's capitalists doing it. I would rather they be mining asteroids than doing so on earth.

[Brosip Tito]

Asteroids up for dibbs, if you don't claim em, a corporation will!

How fucked up is tthat.

[Yazman]

Asteroids up for dibbs, if you don't claim em, a corporation will!

How fucked up is tthat.

I don't get this sentiment. We're not talking about a potential habitat for anybody here. We're also not talking about something that has ever even been touched by a human before.