What is with the random 4 in Trotskyism?

[Bostana]

I mean they have a hammer and sickle then a 4.

WTF?

http://images.wikia.com/liberapedia/images/3/3e/Logo_of_the_Fourth_International.png

You see?

[NewLeft]

4th internationale..

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

It is for the 4th International, an international union of different Trotskyists parties founded in 1938.

[hatzel]

Also because the correct Russian spelling is 'Tr4tskyism'

(By the way yes I do know that Russians often use the number 4 when transliterating into Latin script, so don't come in here all "but that would be 'trchtskyism'!" because no it wouldn't make you seem really clever trust me it would just make you look like a muggy nerdario)

[Nox]

The 4 is secretly an unfinished swastika

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

The 4 is secretly an unfinished swastika

Yes.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

i find it hilarious that this tankie who posts as though he's some sort of authority on communism actually did not know what the fourth international is

[Lev Bronsteinovich]

The Fourth International was formed by Trotsky and his followers after the collapse of the Communist International (aka Third International). For Trotsky, the dividing line between being an expelled opposition to Stalin and saying the Comintern was dead and a new international needed to be formed occurred when there was no discussion in the CI after the debacle in Germany in 1933.

[Lev Bronsteinovich]

The 4 is secretly an unfinished swastika
Not funny.

[Comrade Samuel]

i find it hilarious that this tankie who posts as though he's some sort of authority on communism actually did not know what the fourth international is

Well that seems a little harsh, we all have our strong and weak points and asking a legitimate question about something hardly seems like grounds to call someone a "tankie" and a self-proclaimed "communism expert" even if you find their views to be dead wrong.

But then again "tankie" is the secret code word for "Marx-Leninist" no matter how many times we make case that proves otherwise and the fact we know nothing about Marxism (opposing tendency or otherwise) clearly means we must do as much overcompensation for it as possible by makeing an effort to learn a little more about it.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Not funny.

That is not a normal 4.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Not funny.

I dunno, made me chuckle.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

If that 4 grows another arm, it would be a swastika.

[Ostrinski]

Not funny.Bad taste maybe, but I got some humor out of it, from a strictly observational perspective.

[ColonelCossack]

Means 4th international.


But everyone's already said that so I'll go. :mellow:

[Railyon]

Trotsky liked to count, like The Count (Sesame Street, anyone?)

Threeeee... *thunder! Four! *thunder AHAHAHAHA!

[Sam_b]

This has got to be a level, right?

[Luc]

The 4 is secretly an unfinished swastika

actually now that you mention it, some nazis in my town srpay painted a swastika and missed one arm... maybe that's where the one arm went! :ohmy:

[Prometeo liberado]

actually now that you mention it, some nazis in my town srpay painted a swastika and missed one arm... maybe that's where the one arm went! :ohmy:

Are you sorry you asked yet?

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

I dunno, made me chuckle.

Same here, totally funny.

[Blake's Baby]

Because the Trotskyists didn't realise the Fourth International was founded in 1922.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Workers_International

[PC LOAD LETTER]

Because the Trotskyists didn't realise the Fourth International was founded in 1922.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Workers_International
So Trotsky's 4th international is a bit like "Windows 7" ... arbitrary number not related to its position in the series

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

the communist workers' international, not to be confused with the fourth international founded in 1938, was still founded after the comintern or third international of 1919

[gorillafuck]

Because the Trotskyists didn't realise the Fourth International was founded in 1922.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Workers_Internationalwell there were actually a lot of different internationals so if you're going by that logic, then Trotsky's international should have been a huge number in line. but the fourth international was clearly named so because it was formed as opposition to the third international.

[Prometeo liberado]

well there were actually a lot of different internationals

Maybe, but double digits would have looked like an international calling code. People wearing little beards and frumpy coats wouldn't be caught dead trolling around with that extra digit on their backs. Screaming "permanent revolution!" no less. No, four is a good number for the Trots. Easily divisible.

[Blake's Baby]

the communist workers' international, not to be confused with the fourth international founded in 1938, was still founded after the comintern or third international of 1919

Yeah. Hence the 'fourth' international. As in, after the 'third' international. Certainly, the Vienna International has a claim to being the 'fourth' but I'm not sure it wanted to be.

However, as far as I know, only Trotsky counted 1, 2, 3, 2.5, 4, 4 (to reach his 'fourth' international)


well there were actually a lot of different internationals so if you're going by that logic, then Trotsky's international should have been a huge number in line...

I don't know of any other than the First (IWA, 1864), Second (Socialist, 1889), Third (Communist, 1919), Vienna (Trotsky's 'Two-and-a-Half International', 1921), Fourth (Communist Workers', 1922) and Fourth (Trotskyist, 1938). The 'Three-and-a-Half International' wasn't really an international organisation as such, in my understanding, just an idea that never came to fruition. It was also really 'two-and-a-half version 2', rather than really being 'beyond' the third. Some 2.5 groups had gone back into the IInd by this time anyway.

Unless you count Anarchist internationals, in which case I have no idea how many there were in the '30s.


...but the fourth international was clearly named so because it was formed as opposition to the third international.

Well, yes, it was more that the KAPD wanted it to go beyond the IIIrd - some participants hadn't given up the idea of 'recapturing' the IIIrd I think, but the KAPD had. My supposition is that they really didn't consider the 2.5 International at all. And I guess that Trotsky had something similar in mind when he decided that his International shouldbe '4' as well. Rather than 5 or 6, let's say.

[Q]

So Trotsky's 4th international is a bit like "Windows 7" ... arbitrary number not related to its position in the series

[Offtopic geek mode]
Actually, "Windows 7" isn't that arbitrary.

Once upon a time Microsoft released a Windows version called "NT 4" and, since the Windows 95/98/98SE/ME sucked such donkey balls, they choose to carry on developing the NT branch. Thus they came out with:

- NT 5.0 (more commonly known as "Windows 2000")
- NT 5.1 (Windows XP)
- NT 5.2 (Windows Server 2003)
- NT 6.0 (Windows Vista)
- And, as they apparently ran out of brand names, NT 7.0 as "Windows 7".

[PC LOAD LETTER]

[Offtopic geek mode]
Actually, "Windows 7" isn't that arbitrary.

Once upon a time Microsoft released a Windows version called "NT 4" and, since the Windows 95/98/98SE/ME sucked such donkey balls, they choose to carry on developing the NT branch. Thus they came out with:

- NT 5.0 (more commonly known as "Windows 2000")
- NT 5.1 (Windows XP)
- NT 5.2 (Windows Server 2003)
- NT 6.0 (Windows Vista)
- And, as they apparently ran out of brand names, NT 7.0 as "Windows 7".
Undercover Geek (tm) here. The first NT release was 3.1, named to match the then-current consumer version of Windows, 3.1. Including NT 3.5 and 3.51, then Windows 7 should be Windows 9. Windows 7 is the trade name, the actual NT release is 6.1

[Q]

Windows 7 is the trade name, the actual NT release is 6.1

Hmm, correct (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT).

Microsoft:

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2012/1/2/6f366071-d04a-493c-b15e-43008b069df5.jpg

[Blake's Baby]

Pardon me, I hadn't realised this was a thread in Chit-Chat. I apologise my blatantly rude use of 'facts' and whatnot.



Look over there! Some kittens are doing something amusing to an internet! (BB runs away to hide in secret lair made from the frozen tears of the bougeoisie)

[Crux]

I think the neo-situs who called themselfes the Last International were pretty clever.

[Blake's Baby]

Damn. I'll have to agitate for the Penultimate International then.