Amnesty International

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

What are your opinions on Amnesty International?
Are they just reformist, or do they actually do something good?

[Left Leanings]

They do some excellent campaigning work, and highlight human rights abuses round the world: people detained without trial, being tortured, discriminated against cos of their sexuality and gender and so on.

They have a womens action network, trade union network, LGBT network etc, and encourage peeps to participate in demonstrations and so on.

Whilst they are right to highlight these things, they are not socialist revolutionaries, and many of the problems they highlight, are only realistically gonna disappear in a socialist world.

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

Concur with m'colleague above, the work they do has great value in highlighting injustices around the world

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

Concur with m'colleague above, the work they do has great value in highlighting injustices around the world

Well it seems like, they rarely say anything about the injustices in the US.

[Left Leanings]

Well it seems like, they rarely say anything about the injustices in the US.

Perhaps this link will help you:

http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/usa

It has shitloads of references to abuses in the US

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

Ok so on their site they do, but they seem to be more vocal in the media when it isn't in the US then when it is.

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

Ok so on their site they do, but they seem to be more vocal in the media when it isn't in the US then when it is.

I suppose the US is considered so much a beacon of the 'free, democratic first world' nations that any suggestion that their are masses of injustices that when compiled could be equated to any in the tyrannical 'third world' nations is dismissed.

I imagine most americans, and most british, french etc would say 'What? Amnesty complaining about us? Wtf?'

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

I suppose the US is considered so much a beacon of the 'free, democratic first world' nations that any suggestion that their are masses of injustices that when compiled could be equated to any in the tyrannical 'third world' nations is dismissed.

I imagine most americans, and most british, french etc would say 'What? Amnesty complaining about us? Wtf?'
So?
They are called amnesty International, so they should be vocal about the injustices everywhere, and not just in the third world.

[Left Leanings]

Amnsety International is not the answer to the problem, though is it? So are you surprised?

Topple the bosses yeah :D

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

So?
They are called amnesty International, so they should be vocal about the injustices everywhere, and not just in the third world.


Mate, I'm not advocating that position or supporting their actions, was just posing a theory, I have no idea why they make so few public denouncements of Western governments compared to the third world, I agree with you

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

I have no idea why they make so few public denouncements of Western governments compared to the third world

Because they were created in the 60's to whine about the Soviet Union more than anything.

Fuck them.

[Left Leanings]

Because they were created in the 60's to whine about the Soviet Union more than anything.

Fuck them.

Exactly.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Itt left leanings reps liberal solutions

[Left Leanings]

Itt left leanings reps liberal solutions

Another trolling and immature post.

If I represented liberal solutions, I would be off elsewhere, working in another direction and arena.

[Franz Fanonipants]

Another trolling and immature post.

If I represented liberal solutions, I would be off elsewhere, working in another direction and arena.

Yeah because your secular humanism white knighting is revolutionary as shit

[Tim Cornelis]

Mate, I'm not advocating that position or supporting their actions, was just posing a theory, I have no idea why they make so few public denouncements of Western governments compared to the third world, I agree with you


Ok so on their site they do, but they seem to be more vocal in the media when it isn't in the US then when it is.

You are both wrong. Amnesty International frequently criticises Western governments. The problem is not that AI does not criticise Western government, the problem is the media who only drag in Amnesty International when they feel like it.

Amnesty International depends on being offered a platform by the media, so it's the media who ultimately determine who Amensty International criticises publicly. Though it should be stressed that the media also frequently reports on the AI criticisms of Western governments.


Because they were created in the 60's to whine about the Soviet Union more than anything.

Fuck them.

Wrong. It was founded in response to the right-wing conservative/fascist dictatorship of Portugal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estado_Novo_(Portugal)).

All this lying and slander simply because Amnesty International does not work in the exact narrow framework you all prefer it works in is ridiculous.

Just because AI is not revolutionary, does not mean it is to be dismissed, especially not using falsehoods.

EDIT: I looked up, the first people Amnesty International campaigned for included an African American civil rights activist, an anti-apartheid activist, a Marxist-Leninist Angolian, a Philipino communist insurgent, and only two people locked up in the Eastern Bloc/USSR (and it seems also a Chinese pro-Marxist artist who was imprisoned under Mao for being a counter-revolutionary, though I'm not sure whether he was Marxist--wikipedia does not specify to clearly).

EDIT II: lol, it's getting worse the more information I find:

"Amnesty reports disproportionately on relatively more democratic and open countries,[50] arguing that its intention is not to produce a range of reports which statistically represents the world's human rights abuses, but rather to apply the pressure of public opinion to encourage improvements. "

Here a list on which Amnesty International focused most of its attention:

Rank Country #Press Releases % Total
1 United States 136 4.24
2 Israel (inc. West Bank and Gaza Strip) 128 3.99
3 Indonesia and East Timor 119 3.71
Turkey 119 3.71
4 People's Republic of China 115 3.58
5 Serbia and Montenegro 104 3.24
6 United Kingdom 103 3.21
7 India 85 2.65
8 USSR and Russian Federation 80 2.49
9 Rwanda 64 2.00
10 Sri Lanka 59 1.84

(bolded: anti-communist governments, italics "pro-communist" governments).

[Left Leanings]

Yeah because your secular humanism white knighting is revolutionary as shit

I was a member of the National Secular Society, many years ago. A good deal of its members are of socialist orientation, but they do not at least at organizational level, call for socialist revolution.

Everyone goes through a process of learning, you know. I was once in the Labour Party too, and one of the so-called 'loony left', trying to shove it in a leftwards direction. Lots and lots of people attempted that. Some still are lol.

But I reealized the futility of that, and resigned from Labour during my student days - back in the early 1990s. I was very close to the SWP and the SWSS, and did some work with them.

After graduation, I was ill for years and years, and out of action. My views were revolutionary socialist, but I couldn't activate them. I was too unwell.

But I think my posts here speak for themselves.

I mean, how old are you? And are you active? Not just tappety-tap-tap on a keyboard, but actually doing something ya know? Maybe you are just starting out, I don't know.

I am currently re-engaing and reactivating my politics - cos I am able to do so now.

If all you can offer is petty postings - which you were recently suspended for, I might add - then good luck to you. And good luck to our cause, cos fuck knows, it's an uphill struggle as it is.

[OnlyCommunistYouKnow]

I remember when Gaddafi got first on one of their lists and they never gave the list then.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Y
Just because AI is not revolutionary, does not mean it is to be dismissed, especially not using falsehoods.


No, that's true; it should be dismissed because "human rights" is a liberal farce.

[Zealot]

You mean the organization that has death squad leaders speak at their conventions?

[Omsk]

You have no idea how much trouble they stirred up during the civil wars in Yugoslavia.They are responsible for much harm.

[Franz Fanonipants]

If all you can offer is petty postings - which you were recently suspended for, I might add - then good luck to you. And good luck to our cause, cos fuck knows, it's an uphill struggle as it is.

yeah thanks bro you really changed my mind around about how vital you are to the international proletarian struggle

as for me, i have no desire to show off how active i am or am not on an internet forum tx

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

You mean the organization that has death squad leaders speak at their conventions?

Source?

[Left Leanings]

yeah thanks bro you really changed my mind around about how vital you are to the international proletarian struggle

as for me, i have no desire to show off how active i am or am not on an internet forum tx

Fair enough man lol. Another sneering post though, I see. Everyone who advocates socialist revolution has a part to play. Just try and be a little more constructive, ffs.

[Zealot]

Source?

"The U.S. Ambassador to Syria (Robert Ford) reiterated the Obama administration's approach to the conflict in Syria in remarks Saturday to Amnesty International." (Source (http://news.yahoo.com/ambassador-says-us-response-syria-very-stern-231800164.html))

If you don't know who Robert Ford is, he was the ambassador in Syria:

"...the decision was made to pull him temporarily after government-sponsored Syrian media began running false reports blaming Ford for death squads in Syria similar to the ones in Iraq..." (Source (http://articles.cnn.com/2011-10-24/middleeast/world_meast_syria-us-ambassador_1_ambassador-robert-ford-hama-imad-moustapha?_s=PM:MIDDLEEAST))

In that quote they are hinting at reports he was involved in forming death squads and implementing the "Salvador Option (http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2005/01/07/the-salvador-option.html)" while he was working in Iraq for the US Embassy from 2004-2006.

[NormalG]

Its true, the west is hardly their focus. They send me emails every week, always about the 3rd world. I think the last American case they sent me was Troy Davis.

[Tim Cornelis]

Its true, the west is hardly their focus. They send me emails every week, always about the 3rd world. I think the last American case they sent me was Troy Davis.

This is factually wrong, as I've shown. But even so, the West are freer than most of the world, so logically they will send you about those countries.

[The Intransigent Faction]

I know a woman who's really involved with them, constantly sending petitions around, etc. They are of course a liberal organization, but as others have said they do a great job of highlighting the abuses suffered by many people around the world.

As for focusing on the West, from my own research they seem fairly vocal on Guantanamo Bay, for instance.

So I don't think they deserve to be hated, but they hardly have a program for actually bringing about what they promote in terms of women's rights, stopping child labour, etc., addressing all of which requires a different socioeconomic form, namely socialism/communism.

[Drosophila]

My high school had an Amnesty International club but then it got rid of it once they declared they were pro-choice. Kinda funny considering some of actual harmful things they've done.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I think the point here is quite clear; Amnesty International is NOT a left-leaning organisation in any way. It's remit is quite clear - it investigates and highlights human rights abuses. Of course, 'human rights' is the domain of liberals and 'compassionate' Capitalists, not the revolutionary left. However, they do a stellar job of highlighting the abuses of working people in places like America, Israel and also the non-western backed nations. Take them for what they are, a useful exposer of abuses. They are good at what they do, and that is it.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

I suppose they do some good things however where are they now? I'm fucking starving and I have no food except a tiny bowl of cole slaw and no money. My point is, they may address the short-term problem but they don't provide a long-term solution.

[Lobotomy]

You have no idea how much trouble they stirred up during the civil wars in Yugoslavia.They are responsible for much harm.

Can you elaborate?

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

amnesty international is an ideological tool of liberal democracies. the very concept of human rights boils down to a set of ideals defined by Western politicians which, when violated, may or may not serve as pretext for meddling in the affairs of other countries thru military intervention or other methods of imperialist coercion.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Amnesty International is great, they report on everything they find. It's just that what they report is cherry picked by the media, therefore Cuba does not let them in, because if Amnesty would find the smalles thing it would be used by capitalist propaganda outlets and allround the corporate media to paint a picture of Cuba as being a tyrannical unjust state that would serve the interests of imperialism and serve as great war propaganda. Don't let capitalist insitutions or anyone else report in "our" theoretical socialist state it only serves as fodder to the imperialist war machine that has killed those hundreds of thousands if not millions of Iraqis, Afghans, Yugolsavs, Libyans and many other people.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

yes let's not forget that human rights was one of bush's reasons for invading afghanistan to save the women

[Lucretia]

Ok so on their site they do, but they seem to be more vocal in the media when it isn't in the US then when it is.

Translation: The US bourgeois media only covers AI criticisms when they are directed against people besides the US.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Can you elaborate?

Let me give you this interview with the late economist and ex UN-delegate Sean Gervasi explaining Yugoslavia. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePw0Wp7lsxA&list=PL6011FB6EEF7FC055&index=2&feature=plpp_video

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

but looking at this from a more ample viewpoint, what does it mean to denounce human rights abuses? who, exactly, has the capacity to do something about said abuses?
when some human rights watch group or the human rights community denounces something, they are doing so with the clout of the western powers. and anything will only de done about it by those western countries against less powerful ones, naturally with an ulterior imperialist agenda. it is at its core an act of imperialism.