Beaten by Pigs

[(*]

I haven't seen any threads about the video taped beating of an African-American in Cincinnati.

You can see the entire video here (http://www.fox19.com/)


I have had several debates (on other boards) about this. I believe that the 2 cops (present at the beginning) should have waited for backup before attempting to restrain him... Instead of resorting to beating the sh*t out of him.

Surely there are alternatives to beating people with clubs? While telling them to "put their hands behind their backs"

Thoughts?

[Intifada]

they never even gave him a fucking chance to "put his hands behind his back". the fucking pigs make me sick. :angry:

[Hampton]

No person is going to be be like "Okay, I'll put my hands behind my back so you can smack me with your sticka few times in the head" because you know one they had him in cuffs they were going to smack him around a little to teach the black man not to resist an arrest, lawful or unlawful, they might as well be the same thing because it'll be mighty hard to prove an unlawful arrest when the guy punching at cops.

But I'm sure the cops must be feeling good knowing that they beat an unamrmed fat man to death with metal clubs.

There are other ways to subdoing people that don't involve beatings but the police seem to like the quick draw and shoot 40 rounds off and beat people than anything else.

[Purple]

Notice how the only policeman helping him is black, and that he was the one noticing that he wans't breeding while all the others were just standing on the side, looking for a reason to leave...

[CASTRO_SUCKS]

The only place Ive seen more blind individuals is at the local chapter of "lighthouse for the blind"! You all need to put yourselves in EVERYONE'S shoes. EVERYONE that was involved! and whats this crap about the only cop helping was black?! you need to open your eyes son...and watch the ENTIRE tape to see exactly at what point the black officer got there and what he DID afterwards.

See, it works this way...in an organization where your "brothers in arms" are being threatened, ALL racial and religious boundaries CEASE to exist, and you'll do WHATEVER to help out your brother. Thats how it works in the military, in the fire department and yes, even in the police department!! So this hogwash about the black officer "helping" the guy getting arrested is NONSENSE!

I tell ya what...why don't one of you (or a whole bunch of you), meet me somewhere, and I'll start punching you guys in the face one by one! According to YOUR "logic" the first few to go down will have to take it, while the others that are awaiting their turn, turn tail and run, leaving the other friends behind to face more abuse..... Is THAT how you see it? Afterall, I'm just slugging it out with you guys. Surely you'll stick to your point and wait for help while I fracture your facial bones.

[(*]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2003, 04:04 PM


See, it works this way...in an organization where your "brothers in arms" are being threatened, ALL racial and religious boundaries CEASE to exist, and you'll do WHATEVER to help out your brother. Thats how it works in the military, in the fire department and yes, even in the police department!! So this hogwash about the black officer "helping" the guy getting arrested is NONSENSE!


What's with all the rape cases in the military?

Is raping each other considered being "brothers in arms?"

[CASTRO_SUCKS]

Originally posted by (*@Dec 4 2003, 09:18 PM
What's with all the rape cases in the military?

Is raping each other considered being "brothers in arms?"
Whats with all the rape cases on the streets? Whats with all the rape cases in the prison system? Whats with all the rape cases in third world countries?! Whats Your POINT?! The rape cases in the military are investigated and dealt with HARSHLY! Thats why Fort LEAVENWORTH, KANSAS exists! Read about it...you'll LEARN something! By your "logic" thats ALL The military does...hey, why buy weapons when we can rape aour enemies into submission! Yeah...thats how the military fights nowadays...no weapons....no death....just rape! GROW UP!

One would THINK you'd post an intelligent sentence about this, but obviously you come up SHORT!

[Intifada]

can i ask you a question CS, do you think it was right for the cops to be beating the poor guy shitless?

[(*]

don't question my logic after your blanketed statement about brother in arms and and all that BS.

I simply showed you one (of many) examples where that is not the case. Another example, the soldier in Iraq who threw the grenade in his own camp. I could go on forever.

And show me where I wrote about rape being the only thing the military does. Don't put words in my mouth.

[dopediana]

Originally posted by (*@Dec 4 2003, 09:18 PM
What's with all the rape cases in the military?

Is raping each other considered being "brothers in arms?"
yes. and the brothers in arms tell us to sit back and enjoy it too. ****s.

[Hampton]

I tell ya what...why don't one of you (or a whole bunch of you), meet me somewhere, and I'll start punching you guys in the face one by one! According to YOUR "logic" the first few to go down will have to take it, while the others that are awaiting their turn, turn tail and run, leaving the other friends behind to face more abuse..... Is THAT how you see it? Afterall, I'm just slugging it out with you guys. Surely you'll stick to your point and wait for help while I fracture your facial bones.

Does that mean when I kill you, an unarmed man, by beating you to death it'll be justified? So I can keep my job, not go to jail, and be praised for it?

[CASTRO_SUCKS]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2003, 09:26 PM
can i ask you a question CS, do you think it was right for the cops to be beating the poor guy shitless?
Since you happen to be the ONLY one with common sense around here, I'll answer your question WITH a few questions.

1)WHO swung first?
2)WHO was on duty doing a job?
3)WHO was strung out on PCP AND cocaine?
4)WHO was violent?
5)WHO had the job of restraining someone that was out of control?
6)WHO was the one out of control in the video?
7)WHO didn't listen to orders?
8)WHO had a previous criminal history?
9)WHAT did the man have in his pockets?
10)WHO forced this man to take PCP, take a swing at the cops, fight them and NOT listen to orders?
11)Who wanted to go home to their family AFTER their shift was over?

You guys amaze me....you ***** when a cop takes someone down, who's breaking the law....yet in these other countries you guys call "paradise", they do the same thing to peopl efor merely opening their mouths and expressing their opinions AND/OR speaking out against their governments...AND to top it off, you may NEVER hear from them again. Your arguments are FLAWED! If you hate this country for it, then you're hypocrits because its WORSE in these other countries you speak so highly of!!! And in MY book, a HYPOCRITE is far lower in the animal world, than someone who's ideals are slightly skewed, but they stand behind them anyway!

[CASTRO_SUCKS]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2003, 10:03 PM
Does that mean when I kill you, an unarmed man, by beating you to death it'll be justified?
Who says I&#39;m NOT armed? <_<


THIS question coming from someone who quotes TuPac? A singer who advocated violence?..Nice one there hampton....Don&#39;t you ever get dizzy from running in circles?

[Jesus Christ]

Originally posted by CASTRO_SUCKS+Dec 4 2003, 08:16 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CASTRO_SUCKS @ Dec 4 2003, 08:16 PM)
[email protected] 4 2003, 10:03 PM
Does that mean when I kill you, an unarmed man, by beating you to death it&#39;ll be justified?
Who says I&#39;m NOT armed? <_<


THIS question coming from someone who quotes TuPac? A singer who advocated violence?..Nice one there hampton....Don&#39;t you ever get dizzy from running in circles? [/b]
Tupac did not advocate violence, his songs were about his upbringing and all the shit he had to endure growing up and during his career. He merely spoke for the millions in the very same position he was in.

[Hampton]

1)WHO swung first?

Was he armed? Did a swing justify over a dozen shots with a metal baton after he was on the ground with 2 cops on top of him?


2)WHO was on duty doing a job?

Hardly putting your life on the line when you take a punch to the face, if a cop can&#39;t dodge a punch by a 400 pound fat man, he shouldn&#39;t be doing that job.


3)WHO was strung out on PCP AND cocaine?

Well I guess that justifies it all dosen&#39;t it? Bush is cokemonkey, whoop de do.


4)WHO was violent?

Ask the guy with the gun, the baton, hand cuffs, mace..


5)WHO had the job of restraining someone that was out of control?

Any other job qualifications you want to list? What made him get out of control?


6)WHO was the one out of control in the video?

The cops. Throwing a punch dosen&#39;t equal out of control, it might equal defiance of an unjust arrest being made, but we don&#39;t know that do we? There&#39;s no video of a few minutes in there, who knows what could have happened.


7)WHO didn&#39;t listen to orders?

Please, orders from cop who is willing to beat you to death dosen&#39;t need to be listened to, I&#39;d punch him in the face too.


8)WHO had a previous criminal history?

The Cincinnati police department does, ask Timothy Thomas.


9)WHAT did the man have in his pockets?

Nothing.

Why don&#39;t you say what you really mean when you talk about other countries and spin this into another "Why Cuba sucks" post. We&#39;ll never hear from Nathaniel Jones again or Timothy Thomas what makes them diffrent from what you says goes on in those "other" countries?

And about the Tupac thing....ever hear Changes, Keep ya head up, Brenda&#39;s got a baby, Letter to the President, Hold Ya head, White Man&#39;s World? Don&#39;t talk about things you don&#39;t know about.

[CASTRO_SUCKS]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2003, 12:20 AM
Tupac did not advocate violence........

Yeah......ok&#33; Whateeeeeever you say&#33; :blink:

[CASTRO_SUCKS]

Originally posted by Hampton+Dec 5 2003, 12:35 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Hampton @ Dec 5 2003, 12:35 AM) Was he armed? Did a swing justify over a dozen shots with a metal baton after he was on the ground with 2 cops on top of him?[/b]
Did THEY know he was armed?&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; Do YOU know if he was armed??&#33;&#33; A dozen shots with a metal baton? You&#39;re right...they should have shot him dead right there&#33; Would THAT have satisfied you?&#33;


Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2003, 12:35 AM
Hardly putting your life on the line when you take a punch to the face, if a cop can&#39;t dodge a punch by a 400 pound fat man, he shouldn&#39;t be doing that job.
Man, you are so damned blind you can&#39;t see past your nose&#33;



Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2003, 12:35 AM
Well I guess that justifies it all dosen&#39;t it? Bush is cokemonkey, whoop de do.
Yeah....I think I heard he was snorting coke at the White House yesterday. See the previous statement above&#33;



Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2003, 12:35 AM
Ask the guy with the gun, the baton, hand cuffs, mace..
And your logic of course is that they shouldn&#39;t carry those things. Ok...yeah..ok...good one there hampton. I hope your house never gets broken into, or your little sister abducted, or your loved one raped&#33; Who you gonna call? Surely not the cops...hey, maybe your friendly neighborhood peace activist will talk the bad guys down from their treacherous acts against you and your family. GOOD LUCK&#33;



Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2003, 12:35 AM
....What made him get out of control?
Gee...I don&#39;t know....maybe he wanted a hamburger and the cops stood in his way. You&#39;re right...full justification for assault on a person, let alone a cop&#33; Another good one hampton&#33;


Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2003, 12:35 AM
The cops. Throwing a punch dosen&#39;t equal out of control, it might equal defiance of an unjust arrest being made, but we don&#39;t know that do we? There&#39;s no video of a few minutes in there, who knows what could have happened.
You&#39;re so f*cking blind it disgusts me&#33; Tell you what, let me take a few swings at your head there tough guy....talk to me afterwards, eh?


Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2003, 12:35 AM
Please, orders from cop who is willing to beat you to death dosen&#39;t need to be listened to, I&#39;d punch him in the face too.
Bahahahahahahaha.....tough talk from a kid&#33; Like I said before, get yourself some glasses&#33;


Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2003, 12:35 AM
...We&#39;ll never hear from Nathaniel Jones again or Timothy Thomas what makes them diffrent from what you says goes on in those "other" countries?
So what?&#33; And what makes those other so-called "great" countries so different than what happens HERE then?????&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;


[email protected] 5 2003, 12:35 AM
And about the Tupac thing....ever hear Changes, Keep ya head up, Brenda&#39;s got a baby, Letter to the President, Hold Ya head, White Man&#39;s World? Don&#39;t talk about things you don&#39;t know about.
You&#39;re preaching to the choir kid...I was listening to him when you were still in 8th grade&#33;

[andresG]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2003, 04:04 PM
You all need to put yourselves in EVERYONE&#39;S shoes. EVERYONE that was involved&#33;
You mean put myself in the shoes of a cop?

Put myself in the shoes of the very people who patrol over my neighberhood ready to beat down those "savage" spics and niggers who just can&#39;t behave?

The very people who would arrest me for carrying some herb?

The very people ready to do whatever asked of them?

I think I&#39;ll pass... <_<

[CASTRO_SUCKS]

Yeah Andres....the very SAME people keeping you and your family safe. But then again, you must live in a very nice and safe neighborhood to not NEED them, eh? God, I laugh when you people talk about things you have no clue about. Whats even funnier is that some time in your life, for one reason or another, you&#39;ll HAVE to deal and maybe DEPEND on those very same "pigs" as you call them, to help you out of some trouble&#33; And that makes me smile knowing that&#33;

I&#39;ve mentioned it before.....I&#39;ve been arrested by those same "pigs" and I&#39;m a f*cking firefighter&#33; They pulled me off the piece of shit I was beating to a pulp and threw me against that wall&#33; Gee andres and hampton...did I DESERVE to be thrown against the wall?&#33; WHY?&#33; Hey, maybe they SHOULDN&#39;T HAVE put handcuffs on me&#33; Perhaps they should have just looked away while I finished that idiot off?&#33; Or maybe even tried to TALK me down peacefully as I pummelled the motherf-er&#33;&#33; Is THAT how YOUR world works??&#33; Jesus CHRIST....you all need to leave your houses once in a while and do some LIVING&#33;

[Hampton]

Did THEY know he was armed?&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; Do YOU know if he was armed??&#33;&#33; A dozen shots with a metal baton? You&#39;re right...they should have shot him dead right there&#33; Would THAT have satisfied you?&#33;

In the video they have him on his knees palms open nothing was there, when he was on his stomach and they were trying to put the cuffs on, there was no weapon. They still hit him even though he had no weapon, good job guys.


And your logic of course is that they shouldn&#39;t carry those things. Ok...yeah..ok...good one there hampton. I hope your house never gets broken into, or your little sister abducted, or your loved one raped&#33; Who you gonna call? Surely not the cops...hey, maybe your friendly neighborhood peace activist will talk the bad guys down from their treacherous acts against you and your family. GOOD LUCK&#33;

I never said that they shouldn&#39;t carry those things, don&#39;t put words into my mouth. What I said was you have the cops with all those things that still felt the need to beat a man to death instead of using other means of subdoing him, they&#39;re just willing to kill someone, just like with Timothy Thomas, just like Diallo, just like dozens of others. And I don&#39;t have a sister but if I did I&#39;m pretty sure I don&#39;t need cops to get the person that did it, if you can catch that.


Gee...I don&#39;t know....maybe he wanted a hamburger and the cops stood in his way. You&#39;re right...full justification for assault on a person, let alone a cop&#33; Another good one hampton&#33;

Wow, making fat jokes about a dead man and not address the issue of why, how, what, made him so mad. You&#39;ve got class chief.


You&#39;re so f*cking blind it disgusts me&#33; Tell you what, let me take a few swings at your head there tough guy....talk to me afterwards, eh?

Oh no, don&#39;t challenge my manhood over the internet, I&#39;m so mad, grrr. Please get back to the discussion about the police murdering an unarmed man.


Bahahahahahahaha.....tough talk from a kid&#33; Like I said before, get yourself some glasses&#33;


You&#39;re the only trying to come off tough here, I don&#39;t need to prove my physical prowess to someone over the internet. And why do you assume I&#39;m a kid?


You&#39;re preaching to the choir kid...I was listening to him when you were still in 8th grade&#33;

Wow okay, so you&#39;ve heard all those songs and still are under the opinon that his songs were just violent drivel? Someone needs reading comprehnsion. You should go see the movie they just put out about him.

[Urban Rubble]

Listen, I don&#39;t agree with everything said here, but I do agree these cops should be held accountable.

Castro Sucks

Let me ask straight out, do you think that a few cops beating an unarmed man to death is justifiable ?

The guy was most likely in the wrong. I don&#39;t believe the cops were doing anything other than their job, at first. Shit, the guy was wrong fro swinging at a cop, that is just stupid. But tell me, do you think just because a man got a bit out of control and did something stupid, these cops then have the right to pile on top of him and beat him until he was fucking DEAD ? Seriously, I would love to hear you justify them killing an unarmed person.

The issue is not whether or not the guy deserved arrest, the issue is, does a cop have the authority to kill an unarmed man because he assaulted him with his fists ?

[driver]

He was not beaten to death, he did not die as a result of injuries sustained from being beaten with nightsticks.

I think the police acted accordingly, the reason I say this is I ask myself how I would react should a 400 pound man cranked on PCP and reacting violently attack me with intent to harm me. He was resisting arrrest, he attacked a police officer (which already is a serious crime in the states). Where they supposed to just ask him to lie down?

Once again, he never died as a result of the reactions of the cops trying to subdue him.

I ask the guys who say that the cops did wrong: What would you do in the same situation, how would you subdue this man who is high on PCP, violent and intent on harming you?

Cincinnati death ruled a homicide But coroner says cops may have used necessary force (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2003/12/04/MNGLL3FHJV1.DTL)

But the fight with officers did stress -- and, ultimately, stop -- Jones&#39; heart, which was already weakened by coronary disease, high blood pressure, obesity and the intoxicating effects of cocaine and PCP, Parrott said.

He could have died running to the store to get another twinky.

END&#33;

[Urban Rubble]

Would he have died if hadn&#39;t been clubbed repeatedley with sticks ? No. Therefore, the police officers actions killed him. You know as well as I do if a man punched me in the face and I then beat him with a bat and he died at the hospital later I would be in jail for manslaughter.

[driver]

One could ask, would he have died had he not been overweight, had a heart condition or been on drugs, and beaten by cops... probably not.

His death was the result of a number circumstances, to pin it down to police brutality is unfair. Had he co-operated and not struggled there would not have been the need to use violence to subdue him resulting in less stress to his already frail heart (which was probably thumping at 300bpm&#39;s while resting).

The police were called by the paramedics because he displayed violent behaviour to them. After lunging at a police officer he set tone for a violent confrontation.

It is unfortunate that he is dead and I am not condoning any form of police violence, but in this case I see the force used as justified.

END&#33;

[Purple]

If the victim had resisted arrest, and actually behaved more violent after the beating of the police officers, then it would be more justified... But the fact is that he didn&#39;t respond ina violent matter... Maybe he died under other circumstances, but that still do not make the beating fair..

And CS, when I mentioned that the only officer helping was black, I only viewed the coinsidence of the case... And YES, I did wacth the entire video...

[Intifada]

1)WHO swung first?

that doesnt justify the cruel beating of an unarmed, fat, drugged up man.


2)WHO was on duty doing a job?

the police. but their job isnt to kill unarmed fat men.


3)WHO was strung out on PCP AND cocaine?

exactly, he wasnt much of a threat to two trained cops.


4)WHO was violent?

the cops.


5)WHO had the job of restraining someone that was out of control?

ask yourself why he was out of control. the fucking assholes were beating him shitless.


6)WHO was the one out of control in the video?

the cops.


7)WHO didn&#39;t listen to orders?

who didnt give him a chance to "put his hands behind his back"? the cops were too busy beating the fuck out of him.


8)WHO had a previous criminal history?

what hampton said.


9)WHAT did the man have in his pockets?

nothing, and anyway he probably wouldnt have been coordinated enough to reach into his pocket and do anything to the cops.

now you answer my question. is a fat, drugged up man, who threw one punch at the cops worthy of being brutally beaten and killed the cops?

[driver]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2003, 01:07 PM

3)WHO was strung out on PCP AND cocaine?

exactly, he wasnt much of a threat to two trained cops.
Yeah, damnit, a lovely blend of coccaine and PCP makes you lethargic and docile&#33;&#33; Wussy cops&#33;

:rolleyes:

END&#33;

[Hampton]

He was not beaten to death, he did not die as a result of injuries sustained from being beaten with nightsticks.

Wrong. His death was ruled a homicide because if it had not been for the struggle at that moment he would still be alive today, that was ruled by the coroner.


He added: "Absent the struggle, however, Mr. Jones would not have died at that precise moment of time."........Hamilton County&#39;s coroner said Wednesday that Jones&#39; death will be ruled a homicide, as the violent struggle between Jones and the officers was the primary cause of his death.

Link (http://edition.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/12/04/died.in.custody/)


Once again, he never died as a result of the reactions of the cops trying to subdue him.

Liar.


He could have died running to the store to get another twinky.

Wow more fat jokes about a dead man, such class, so respectable.

[andresG]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2003, 09:04 PM
Yeah Andres....the very SAME people keeping you and your family safe. But then again, you must live in a very nice and safe neighborhood to not NEED them, eh? God, I laugh when you people talk about things you have no clue about. Whats even funnier is that some time in your life, for one reason or another, you&#39;ll HAVE to deal and maybe DEPEND on those very same "pigs" as you call them, to help you out of some trouble&#33; And that makes me smile knowing that&#33;


Why do you assume I live in a good neighberhood? Didn&#39;t the fact that I said that cops patrol and occupy my neighberhood give you a different idea?

Also:
Cops protect me?
The would only protect me if some sort of property or money was involved. Those who don&#39;t own anything are, in their eyes, nothing.

They serve a system I despise. They work for the ruling class, making sure the poor and working class don&#39;t get "too rowdy."

Remind me again why I should support them?

[kadamangudy]

hey CS, you always say things like "you are so damn blind" and "I laugh when I hear you talk" etc. It seems that you cant put forth an argument without insulting somebody. Is this for a lack of factual evidence? if not, why is that type of talk necessary? It clearly doesnt strengthen your arguement.

[SonofRage]

First of all, he did attack one of the police officers. Secondly, his death was not caused by the physical injuries. With the condition the guy was in healthwise, he could have died from the same thing if they just chased him down the street.

[Hampton]

Absent of the struggle, which included being beaten by the police, he would still be alive today. This shit about he died because he was a fat PCP addict is bullshit, was it wrong to strike the cops, who knows because we don&#39;t know why he swung at the cops, if it was self defense against a wrongful arrest or not. All I see is two cops beating an unarmed man who took one swing at a cop. I think the way the law is worded in that state or city that you can resist an unlawfull arrest. Of course that&#39;s probally impossible to prove, but that&#39;s a diffrent story.

[SonofRage]

He had an enlarged heart, that&#39;s no bullshit. He died from a combination of an enlarged heart, obesity and intoxication from narcotics. There is definitely a race problem in Cincinatti, history has shown that, but to play the race card and attack the police right away without looking at the facts just makes us look like the boy who cried wolf.

[Loknar]

First why were the police called? Because this piece of crap was sleeping on the lawn of a white castle. Paramedics were called originally to HELP the man. How did the man pay back the paramedics? By taking a swing at them.

Now in the video the cops clearly tell the guy to stay back, but what does he do? He lunges at one of the cops with a fist. You guys act like fat people cant move and are harmless but if a fat man jumps at you with his fists he will do allot of damage. I am 250lbs my self, I am big guy, if I decide to hit someone my sheer weight can screw them up really bad (trust me, I know).

Now there is the PCP issue. You guys should pay attention in your drug education classes.

http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofax/pcp.html




PCP (Phencyclidine)

PCP (phencyclidine) was developed in the 1950s as an intravenous anesthetic. Its use in humans was discontinued in 1965, because patients often became agitated, delusional, and irrational while recovering from its anesthetic effects. PCP is illegally manufactured in laboratories and is sold on the street by such names as angel dust, ozone, wack, and rocket fuel. Killer joints and crystal supergrass are names that refer to PCP combined with marijuana. The variety of street names for PCP reflects its bizarre and volatile effects.

PCP is a white crystalline powder that is readily soluble in water or alcohol. It has a distinctive bitter chemical taste. PCP can be mixed easily with dyes and turns up on the illicit drug market in a variety of tablets, capsules, and colored powders. It is normally used in one of three ways: snorted, smoked, or ingested. For smoking, PCP is often applied to a leafy material such as mint, parsley, oregano, or marijuana.

Health Hazards
PCP is addictive - its use often leads to craving and compulsive PCP-seeking behavior. First introduced as a street drug in the 1960s, PCP quickly gained a reputation as a drug that could cause bad reactions and was not worth the risk. After using PCP once, many people will not knowingly use it again. Others, however, use it regularly, sometimes because of its addictive properties. Others attribute their continued use to feelings of strength, power, invulnerability, and a numbing effect on the mind.

Many PCP users are brought to emergency rooms because of PCP overdose or because of the drug&#39;s unpleasant psychological effects. In a hospital or detention setting, these people often become violent or suicidal and are very dangerous to themselves and others. They should be kept in a calm setting and not be left alone. (How were the cops suposed to know he was doing PCP?)

At low to moderate doses, physiological effects of PCP include a slight increase in breathing rate and a pronounced rise in blood pressure and pulse rate. Breathing becomes shallow, and flushing and profuse sweating occur. Generalized numbness of the extremities and loss of muscular coordination also may occur. Psychological effects include distinct changes in body awareness, similar to those associated with alcohol intoxication. Adolescents who use PCP may experience interference with their learning process and with growth and development hormones.

At high doses of PCP, blood pressure, pulse rate, and respiration drop. This may be accompanied by nausea, vomiting, blurred vision, flicking up and down of the eyes, drooling, loss of balance, and dizziness. High doses of PCP can also cause seizures, coma, and death (though death more often results from accidental injury or suicide during PCP intoxication). Psychological effects at high doses can cause effects that mimic the full range of symptoms of schizophrenia, such as delusions, hallucinations, paranoia, disordered thinking, a sensation of distance from one&#39;s environment, and catatonia. Speech is often sparse and garbled.

People who use PCP for long periods report memory loss, difficulties with speech and thinking, depression, and weight loss. These symptoms can persist up to a year after stopping PCP use. Mood disorders also have been reported. PCP has sedative effects, and interactions with other central nervous system depressants, such as alcohol and benzodiazepines, can lead to coma or accidental overdose.


So, Heavy weight man+PCP+Cocaine+Enlarged Heart+Over exertion= Death wish. Look at what PCP does, it turns you into a nut. This man killed him self by going after the cops. What were the cops supposed to do? Let the man go? If this man was 150lbs he would be alive today. He initialized hostile contact with the cops, when a cop(s) goes into battle defeat is an unacceptable outcome.

The man was hit while he was on the ground because he continued to resist arrest. If he placed his hands behind his back like ordered they wouldn’t have continued to hit him.

Now, I can certainly understand why black people would automatically be suspicious of the cops. Considering what cops have done in the past. But consider this: Are there times when police need to get into a knock down drag out fight with people at times? Of course

[Hampton]

He had an enlarged heart, that&#39;s no bullshit. He died from a combination of an enlarged heart, obesity and intoxication from narcotics.

Find out what the coroner said, he died from being a fat man being sat on by two police offices while struggling to get free, it&#39;s still debatable if the arrest was warranted or not. I don&#39;t think he could have helped the fact that he has an enlarged heart it&#39;s debatable if he could help his weight problem.


First why were the police called? Because this piece of crap was sleeping on the lawn of a white castle. Paramedics were called originally to HELP the man. How did the man pay back the paramedics? By taking a swing at them.

He didn&#39;t swing at the paramedics. The paramedics got there before the police did, but then they left, then came back after he was murdered. Good job. Can I quote:


The paramedics - who would have been able to offer on-the-spot emergency care - were gone by the time the unarmed black man was handcuffed after a videotaped fight. Jones did not get CPR from the EMTs until they were called back by police at 6:05 a.m., about four minutes after the videotaped confrontation started.

Link (http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1070620300245100.xml)

They didn&#39;t do their job and he died. He could have been saved.


Now in the video the cops clearly tell the guy to stay back, but what does he do? He lunges at one of the cops with a fist. You guys act like fat people cant move and are harmless but if a fat man jumps at you with his fists he will do allot of damage. I am 250lbs my self, I am big guy, if I decide to hit someone my sheer weight can screw them up really bad (trust me, I know).

You&#39;re acting like we don&#39;t acknowledge the man took a swing at the cops, he did, but why did he do? Was it the drugs or was he provoked by the cops when the camera was turned off? Who knows. And you can stop telling us how big and strong you are, nobody cares tough guy.


This man killed him self by going after the cops. What were the cops supposed to do? Let the man go? If this man was 150lbs he would be alive today. He initialized hostile contact with the cops, when a cop(s) goes into battle defeat is an unacceptable outcome.

Blame the victim, it&#39;s all good. You don&#39;t know that he initialized the contact because the video doesn’t exist. Nobody says they should have let him go, they should have used more effective means of restraining him, if after the first 12 shots with the nightstick you can&#39;t put cuffs on him, try something else other than an unarmed man.


The man was hit while he was on the ground because he continued to resist arrest. If he placed his hands behind his back like ordered they wouldn’t have continued to hit him.

That&#39;s laughable, I&#39;m sure the cops wouldn&#39;t hit the black man who took a swing at him after they put the cuffs on him, who was that guy that the cops beat up after the was on the ground, oh yea, Rodney King. trust the cops ;)


Now, I can certainly understand why black people would automatically be suspicious of the cops. Considering what cops have done in the past. But consider this: Are there times when police need to get into a knock down drag out fight with people at times? Of course

Yea it was a real knock down drag out, one punch from the fat guy and over a dozen hits with the nightstick, it was pretty one sided. I mean Jones was only the 18th black man to die in a confrontation with police since 1995.

[Loknar]

Hampton, I respect your perspective and opinion. I will say this, we can sit here and analyze the footage after it all happened but in the heat of a fight you are acting mostly on instinct and reflex. The guy started the fight, please read the article I posted on PCP. I suppose we could say if he wasn’t taking PCP he would be alive today because his judgment wouldn’t have been hindered and he would have been more in tune with reality.

Btw, I wasn’t trying to sound like a tough guy. I was responding to earlier posts that stated “if the cops cant dodge a 400lb black man they shouldn’t be cops”.

Now I will ask you this, you struggle with the man, you finally manage to get him down, he wont give you his hands and continues to resist arrest (this is what the man has been doing since the beginning) what do you do?

[hazard]

beaten by pigs?

is that sorta like "I fought the law and the law won?"

lol

[neworld70]

i agree with hampton. he died as a result of the cops&#39; actions. it was excessive and unnecessary. Another prime example of racism in the police force.
Living in the south puts a lot of situations like this in front of my eyes.
If we ignore the facts nothing justified will come of his death.

[dopediana]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2003, 06:53 AM
Hampton, I respect your perspective and opinion. I will say this, we can sit here and analyze the footage after it all happened but in the heat of a fight you are acting mostly on instinct and reflex. The guy started the fight, please read the article I posted on PCP. I suppose we could say if he wasn’t taking PCP he would be alive today because his judgment wouldn’t have been hindered and he would have been more in tune with reality.

Btw, I wasn’t trying to sound like a tough guy. I was responding to earlier posts that stated “if the cops cant dodge a 400lb black man they shouldn’t be cops”.

Now I will ask you this, you struggle with the man, you finally manage to get him down, he wont give you his hands and continues to resist arrest (this is what the man has been doing since the beginning) what do you do?
loknar, there were 97 seconds of film cut out between the paramedics arriving and then jones taking a swing at the cop. for all we know they could have really egged him on. not to mention they maced him which is enough to enrage anyone on cocaine and pcp. bad form, cops.

[CASTRO_SUCKS]

Let me "enlighten" some of you that don&#39;t know how it works when paramedics are called to a scene. Please note, this is a made-up scenario:

Call goes out for a "signal 2" (intoxicated person) lying on the ground. We respond lights and sirens. We arrive at the scene, only to find a beligerant man, threatening us and/or the public around him. We call PD and back away until the scene is secure. Once the scene is secure, we move back in and check the patient out. We get a complete set of vitals (BP,Pulse, SaPO2, ECG, Resp, Temp, etc) to establish his health. Depending on our findings, we either release him to the custody of PD, or transport the patient to the hospital. We don&#39;t just WALK AWAY if the man needs help, and we don&#39;t treat anyone that doesn&#39;t need it. See, thats the new little trick that arrestees use nowadays. They feign an illness or injury thinking they won&#39;t go to jail if they go to the hospital. YEAH&#33;&#33; Nice try&#33;

PCP gives the weakest man the strength of TEN&#33; You can hit him, zap him, mace him tackle him and NOTHING will phase him&#33; I once hit this guy strung out on the stuff, over the head with a small O2 cyclinder (a little smaller than a SCUBA tank) when he started flipping out, screaming to himself that he was going to kill everyone, got OUT of his upper restraints and went crazy on our way to the hospital&#33;&#33;&#33; And let me tell you, this guy didn&#39;t even BLINK at me crushing his head with the steel cylinder. We had to stop the Rescue truck and jump out until the cops were able to subdue the beast. Perhaps I should have used my sexy voice on him to calm him down and offered him a cup of herbal tea?&#33;&#33;&#33;

And PS:Tomorrowsparties, the on-board dash cam only activates when the lights go on.

Hampton:You&#39;re right....I should&#39;nt have ASSUMED anything...you&#39;re words and logic were proof enough&#33;

[CASTRO_SUCKS]

By the way Hampton..thanks for the link&#33; I got THIS little morsel from it. Thanks again&#33;

......An autopsy by Hamilton County officials says Jones was high on PCP and cocaine, which can sometimes trigger paranoia and episodes of violent behavior. His family is seeking a private autopsy and said at a news conference that he was not a violent person.

An autopsy of Jones, who weighed 342 pounds, shows he used cocaine three hours before his death and died of an irregular heartbeat caused by his struggle with police.

Hamilton County Coroner Dr. Carl Parrot Jr., told a news conference Wednesday, "Absent the struggle, Mr. Jones presumably would have gone on his intoxicated way." .....


Woops...well, THERE goes THAT argument&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

[Hampton]

What was "THAT" argument you chose not to mention? If he hadn&#39;t been in the struggle, which included being beaten, he would still be alive.

And thanks for not addressing anything else that I wrote.

And your made-up scene is just that, a made-up scene. The paramedics left this man then came back after he was dead, your fake scene cannot refute the reality of the situation, you can talk about that we do this and then we do that but you weren&#39;t there and you don&#39;t know what happened, I&#39;m going by what the articles say and they say that they left him then came back when they were called back, to late to help a dead man who could have been saved if they did something the first time.

[SonofRage]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2003, 12:16 AM

He had an enlarged heart, that&#39;s no bullshit. He died from a combination of an enlarged heart, obesity and intoxication from narcotics.

Find out what the coroner said...
That is what the coroner said.

[CASTRO_SUCKS]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2003, 05:50 PM
What was "THAT" argument you chose not to mention?
Actually....it was THE argument you chose not to understand&#33;

[CASTRO_SUCKS]

Originally posted by Hampton+Dec 5 2003, 02:27 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Hampton @ Dec 5 2003, 02:27 AM) In the video they have him on his knees palms open nothing was there, when he was on his stomach and they were trying to put the cuffs on, there was no weapon..[/b]
And, praytell, WHICH video were YOU watching? NO video I&#39;ve seen to date has shown him on his stomach with his palms open.....So far, all the ones I&#39;ve seen only show as far down as the knees.....nice try.



Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2003, 02:27 AM
... Someone needs reading comprehnsion.
Wow....this one would be too easy.... :lol:


[email protected] 5 2003, 02:27 AM
... You should go see the movie they just put out about him.
Yeah...because we all KNOW producers aren&#39;t biased...... :blink: :blink: :blink:

[Hampton]

Actually....it was THE argument you chose not to understand&#33;

I thought it was the posts you ignored, but that&#39;s just me.



And, praytell, WHICH video were YOU watching? NO video I&#39;ve seen to date has shown him on his stomach with his palms open.....So far, all the ones I&#39;ve seen only show as far down as the knees.....nice try.

Of course not becuase the camera in the cops car dosen&#39;t show the ground, he comes up on his knees hands open showing that they&#39;re empty.


Yeah...because we all KNOW producers aren&#39;t biased

Well the movie is narratred by Tupac himself but I&#39;m glad you&#39;ve decided it to judge it before you saw it and that you&#39;re unwilling to see a posation that is diffrent from yours.

[CASTRO_SUCKS]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2003, 07:28 PM
Of course not becuase the camera in the cops car dosen&#39;t show the ground, he comes up on his knees hands open showing that they&#39;re empty.


Again....you STATED you SAW him in the video ON THE GROUND with his palms open&#33; So NOW you&#39;re BACKTRACKING&#33;&#33;&#33; Make up your mind and pick a suitable "argument"&#33;

[CASTRO_SUCKS]

No response? Cat got your tongue? Yeah....I thought so&#33;

[Hampton]

Wow, can&#39;t let this die?

He came up on his knees with palms open with nothing in them. That&#39;s it.

I&#39;ll ignore your comments like you ignore mine in the rest of this thread.

Why did you ignore my responce to what the paramedics did?

Cat got your tounge? YEAH I RULE WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO&#33; FEAR MY INTERNET ARGUING SKILLS&#33;&#33;

Have fun talking to yourself.

I&#39;ll put this before you say it:

Yes, I&#39;m running away from your awesome debating skills, your power to ignore comments and pick and choose the ones you want to answer is a skill that not many have, you should be proud of yourself. Again when you pick one sentance out of 3 paragraphs to answer you&#39;re not debating you&#39;re busting balls and being the fly that buzzes around my ear and I&#39;d rather not waste my time on analyzing one sentance when you&#39;ll ignore 99% of the post.

http://www.student.smsu.edu/s/san232s/hardfunnypics/bullshitwave.gif

[CASTRO_SUCKS]

Originally posted by Hampton+Dec 10 2003, 07:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Hampton @ Dec 10 2003, 07:54 PM) YEAH I RULE WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO&#33; FEAR MY INTERNET ARGUING SKILLS&#33;&#33;[/b]
Wow hampton...your mommy must really be proud of you. :blink:


Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2003, 07:54 PM
Have fun talking to yourself.
Funny, thats what I felt I was doing all along.


[email protected] 10 2003, 07:54 PM
...you&#39;re not debating you&#39;re busting balls
Other than sucking on them, what do YOU know about BALLS kid?&#33; You&#39;ll have to GROW some first junior...then maybe some hair&#33; Ta Ta little boy&#33;

Don&#39;t go away mad because you were defeated....just go away....

[cuckthefapitalists]

sorry, i live in england, and even I know you dont swing at an american cop&#33; if the cops had been shot, would you still be praising this guy? besides, ive known people who do this shit. it DOES make you violent and it DOES make you paranoid.

[CASTRO_SUCKS]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2003, 01:18 AM
sorry, i live in england, and even I know you dont swing at an american cop&#33; if the cops had been shot, would you still be praising this guy? besides, ive known people who do this shit. it DOES make you violent and it DOES make you paranoid.
But see, people here don&#39;t want to read facts, don&#39;t want to put themselves in anyone&#39;s shoes, and obviously see what they want to see and choose what they want to believe. Its ok..becuase like I&#39;ve stated before...no matter HOW much they hate the cops...they WILL, one day in their lives, need to depend on them for help. Look at the last few posts. Look at the only response that moron could give. tsk tsk tsk...oh well.