Hello All from a Fomer Tea Party Repub

[here2learn]

Hello all I am currently a resident of Ohio and up until the last few months of my life I have been tea party republican and at only the age of 24 I have been some what of a minority within the movement as it consists mostly of older folks. I became interested in politics and political ideologies at a young age and why I’m not really sure as this is not the norm with Americans. I had even went so far as to do what I had jokingly referred to friends as “occupying the occupy movement” I live in a small town so our occupy was these people who protested one Saturday night in front of a bank of America and when I showed up there was only about id guess 25-40 people maybe and purposely started an argument just to piss them off. I was always the red white and blue guy and say something bad about my country and be ready to fight. I always defended the rich as successful. Self reliance.

However as of late I just been doing a lot of thinking and I’m not saying this is like a “come to Christ” type of thing but I have been having a change of heart on some issues namely that people’s basic needs should be met, meaning food, clothing, and having a roof over there head among other things. It used to be I would think its there own faults and they should work and I’m just coming to realize that a lot of the time its that people simply cannot find work or that the job that they do have does not pay enough for living expenses. Please don’t get me wrong though I mean I have always cared about people I mean I donated money to charities on occasion and even one time I donated $1000 to a charity in a single donation. However I’m just coming to realize this is not enough and if a few more children out there could eat by increasing my taxes I would be ok with that, I would get by fine.

I been losing faith in capitalism because of these things and have as of late been reading articles on Socialism and Communism something I thought I’d never do. I used to see capitalism as this great thing where everyone had a chance but not so much anymore not because I’m worried about myself but because I see more and more people struggling to make it, people I know who work hard go to work everyday and still its not always enough to pay the bills.

With respect to communism I could see myself more easily falling in line with a socialist theory but the bottom line is I’m here to learn and try to understand these things better . I think one reason why I hated socialism is because when I thought of the word I thought of poverty and oppressive governments, it wasn’t until I actually studied the idea of socialism that I realized that socialism is the opposite of the belief. Rather it was the media or my education this is what my mind was taught to do when the I heard the words socialism or communism almost like subliminal messaging.

Right now I don’t know what to believe or think but I’m still studying and thinking but I have came to a few conclusions, one I no longer consider my self a republican, two I want to help people and three that peoples most basic needs should be met because were all human we all get sick and we all live this life and finally I have found out the rich and powers that be use devices to divide the people to better control them so to that I will no longer defend or support the rich blindly.

Sorry bout the huge post but I’m here to learn and just wanted to let everyone know where I’m at mentally.

[ВАЛТЕР]

Welcome to the forum! Really glad to have you with us. Have you told any of your TEA Party friends about your change of beliefs? If so, how did they react?

[Regicollis]

Welcome to the forum.

You should be proud of you ability to challenge your own views.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Welcome. Thanks for the background, that's pretty interesting. Fair warning, this is the internet and on top of that a bunch of people with a minority viewpoint that are used to getting crap from liberals and conservatives, so don't take it personally if you post and someone gets all high on their horse or whatever (it's easy to get defensive or combative sometimes when you are faced with the mainstream constantly distorting your viewpoint). Just tell them to back off and that you are, as your name says, trying to find out more about the left - that should hopefully remind them that some of us weren't born waving a red flag and that becoming political is a process.

Maybe I'm overstating things - and you sound like you are a little combative yourself and could handle it:)

[escapingNihilism]

ah I thought this was going to be 'from a former Teamster' :lol:

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Welcome to RevLeft!

[The Jay]

Welcome to the forum! I used to be a pretty strong republican too actually. If you want to know any of the basics you can ask anyone here but the quickest way to grasp them would be to read The Communist Manifesto. You can find a PDF version for free here: http://marxists.org/archive/marx/works/download/pdf/Manifesto.pdf

It's a good read for all the basics and pretty short for all the information in there.

Have a great day,
LiquidState

[Left Leanings]

Hello there.

Excellent intoductory post.

Welcome to RevLeft :)

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

Welcome, hope you find the posts and discussions informative, interesting and not too off-putting :)

[Zealot]

That's quite interesting. These stories are fortunate for the leftist movement but are, unfortunately, becoming all too common; the poverty both mentally and physically of ourselves and fellow human beings sparking a disillusionment with the current order of things and, in particular, capitalism and bourgeois politics.

It has become sinful to even say the words Socialism and Communism. Unlike the popular fantasies we are accustomed to, Communists don't meet up in secret locations to drink vodka, smoke cigars and discuss phase 34 of Operation Take-over-the-world-and-start-nuclear-war. We stand with the oppressed of all nations and we support the worker's movement which is aimed at the complete destruction of capitalism and the bourgeois state. In its place will be a worker's dictatorship and the eventual establishment of a classless, stateless society.

Unfortunately, giving to charity cannot change anything in the long term although, undoubtedly, it is noble and appreciated. But we cannot delude ourselves. I think it was Slavoj Zizek who once pointed out that the worst slave owners were those who were nice to their slaves because it enabled an inhumane system to keep perpetuating itself by appearing humane. Obviously, this is not to say you should stop giving to charity but that charity should not be the ultimate goal. The ultimate goal is always revolution, taking the problems by the root.

Anything you don't understand or have questions about, just give me a PM or ask in the learning forums :D

[ColonelCossack]

Welcome!!!

It's people like you that re-affirm my belief in socialism. :)

[Manic Impressive]

Hi welcome. The advice Jimmie gave is the advice that should be given to everyone joining this forum and make good use of the learning section and Marxist Internet archive (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/index.htm).

One thing I noticed was the bit about charity. It reminded me of something Engels wrote on charity which may interest you.


Please don’t get me wrong though I mean I have always cared about people I mean I donated money to charities on occasion and even one time I donated $1000 to a charity in a single donation. However I’m just coming to realize this is not enough and if a few more children out there could eat by increasing my taxes I would be ok with that, I would get by fine.


Let no one believe, however, that the "cultivated" Englishman openly brags with his egotism. On the contrary, he conceals it under the vilest hypocrisy. What? The wealthy English fail to remember the poor? They who have founded philanthropic institutions, such as no other country can boast of! Philanthropic institutions forsooth! As though you rendered the proletarians a service in first sucking out their very life-blood and then practising your self-complacent, Pharisaic philanthropy upon them, placing yourselves before the world as mighty benefactors of humanity when you give back to the plundered victims the hundredth part of what belongs to them! Charity which degrades him who gives more than him who takes; charity which treads the downtrodden still deeper in the dust, which demands that the degraded, the pariah cast out by society, shall first surrender the last that remains to him, his very claim to manhood, shall first beg for mercy before your mercy deigns to press, in the shape of an alms, the brand of degradation upon his brow. But let us hear the English bourgeoisie's own words. It is not yet a year since I read in the Manchester Guardian the following letter to the editor, which was published without comment as a perfectly natural, reasonable thing:
"MR. EDITOR,– For some time past our main streets are haunted by swarms of beggars, who try to awaken the pity of the passers-by in a most shameless and annoying manner, by exposing their tattered clothing, sickly aspect, and disgusting wounds and deformities. I should think that when one not only pays the poor-rate, but also contributes largely to the charitable institutions, one had done enough to earn a right to be spared such disagreeable and impertinent molestations. And why else do we pay such high rates for the maintenance of the municipal police, if they do not even protect us so far as to make it possible to go to or out of town in peace? I hope the publication of these lines in your widely- circulated paper may induce the authorities to remove this nuisance; and I remain,– Your obedient servant,
"A Lady."
There you have it! The English bourgeoisie is charitable out of self-interest; it gives nothing outright, but regards its gifts as a business matter, makes a bargain with the poor, saying: "If I spend this much upon benevolent institutions, I thereby purchase the right not to be troubled any further, and you are bound thereby to stay in your dusky holes and not to irritate my tender nerves by exposing your misery. You shall despair as before, but you shall despair unseen, this I require, this I purchase with my subscription of twenty pounds for the infirmary!" It is infamous, this charity of a Christian bourgeois! And so writes "A Lady"; she does well to sign herself such, well that she has lost the courage to call herself a woman! But if the "Ladies" are such as this, what must the "Gentlemen" be? It will be said that this is a single case; but no, the foregoing letter expresses the temper of the great majority of the English bourgeoisie, or the editor would not have accepted it, and some reply would have been made to it, which I watched for in vain in the succeeding numbers. And as to the efficiency of this philanthropy, Canon Parkinson himself says that the poor are relieved much more by the poor than by the bourgeoisie; and such relief given by an honest proletarian who knows himself what it is to be hungry, for whom sharing his scanty meal is really a sacrifice, but a sacrifice borne with pleasure, such help has a wholly different ring to it from the carelessly-tossed alms of the luxurious bourgeois.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1845/condition-working-class/ch13.htm

[ellipsis]

Greetings and Welcome! We are glad to have you and I hope you learn a lot. Also feel free to PM me if you have any questions or concerns or anything needs clarification.

[here2learn]

Thank you all for the warm welcome and advice

In reference to ВАЛТЕР

I have not attended a tea party event in quite some time but I’m not sure my own friends would have any feelings one way or another because I doubt they know what socialism is mainly because they all say there republicans but I believe its because the only political thought they ever had came from me as I said in my original post I become interested at a young age in politics and like most Americans my group of best friends don’t care or understand politics. I really believe they would agree with me bashing democrats and big government just to act like they knew something because while they listened and agreed with me they never really made a intelligent statement about any issues however I never called them on it as they are good people just ignorant on political issues. Be it the education system or popular culture I don’t know but they are and my self included are your typical 20 something’s work through the week and go party and drink on the weekends. So to drag this out even more but to finally make my point the tea party people would probably be ready take a swing but my friends will probably be indifferent simply because of there ignorance of political thought and socialism in particular.

In reference to escapingNihilism

Lol I actually use to be a long haul truck driver (and people please forgive me its before I knew better about the environment).
Anyway I did so for about a year and half about 3yrs ago but I got burnt out and got me a easy office job so I could be home every night.

In reference to LiquidState

Thanks for the link I will be sure to give it a good read.

Additionally sorry the whole “in reference to” thing and in case you have not figured it out I don’t know how to do the “quote” thing because while I have used the internet this is the first forum I have ever joined, so sorry for that.

Again thank you to everyone for the welcome, advice, links, ect.

[Lee Van Cleef]

Welcome to Revleft. It is always good to see people who are here to learn. One thing I'd like to point out to you is that this forum is designed for debate and discussion among people who are already revolutionary leftists. As such, the finer points of various "forks" in socialist thought are often the main focus of discussions here.

This internal dialogue is not necessarily useful for someone with little exposure to Marxism. Before concerning yourself with Lenin, Trotsky, Mao, or more obscure figures, I'd focus on understanding the basic ideas of Marx and Engels.

The best introduction to Marxism, in my opinion, are these three short works:

The Principles of Communism (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm) by Engels - Basically the Manifesto in FAQ format.

The German Ideology (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1845/german-ideology/ch01.htm) by Marx and Engels - In the preface and part I, Marx and Engels outline their philosophy of dialectical materialism, and explain how their conception of socialism is grounded in a materialist analysis of history.

Wage Labor and Capital (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/wage-labour/index.htm) by Marx - A basic primer on Marxist economics, written for the working class. It briefly explains how capitalism works, how it grows, why capitalism is responsible for the rapid technological advances during the Industrial Revolution, the relationship between workers and their employers, and why higher profits mean lower real wages for workers.

I hope you stick around and frequent the Learning forum.

[ForgedConscience]

Welcome to the forum :)

It's great that you are starting to think critically about your politics and give proper consideration to opposing viewpoints, regardless of what your conclusion is at least you'll know that you have made an effort to think rationally without the bias which tends to be ingrained in so many people.

In regards to learning about communism in particular, I highly recommend reading a copy of 'Marx: A Very Short Introduction' by Peter Singer, it offers a clear explanation of his theories and background and despite being written by a philosopher who does not agree with his views I found it to be as objective and un-opinionated as you can get. You can find a copy on Amazon.

Good luck and happy learning!

[ellipsis]

I don’t know how to do the “quote” thing because while I have used the internet this is the first forum I have ever joined, so sorry for that.

To multi quote: in the bottom-right there are gray/grey buttons, click the "+" on each post throughout the thread you want to quote, the last one click "Quote". Does that makes sense?

[Luc]

Welcome to the board! Perhaps sometime you could give us a run-down of the tea party scene, there many Nazis in it? Hope you feel welcome here :)

[Leftsolidarity]

Welcome. I too used to be a right-winger. I considered myself an anarcho-capitalist for a little while hahaha :laugh:

Glad to see that you're interested in learning. There are many different view points on the left.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Welcome to the forum, take your time and learn; there is no rush as knowledge is the most important factor. Even if you leave here un-revolutionary if you walk away with a actual understanding of the revolutionary left, than you accomplished something.

I myself used to be a hardcore nationalist conservative, check out my story...

http://www.revleft.com/vb/glenn-lenin-my-t168141/index.html?p=2369958#post2369958

[Ostrinski]

Former right winger here as well. Always good to see people come to embrace working class politics.

[OHumanista]

Welcome friend, don't worry about the past too much. Just watch and learn, we aren't born leftists after all. Some of the links above are fine reads for begginers. Check marxists.org for more.
:) Send me a message if you wanna ask something.

[here2learn]

To multi quote: in the bottom-right there are gray/grey buttons, click the "+" on each post throughout the thread you want to quote, the last one click "Quote". Does that makes sense?

I see:thumbup1: it was right in front of me I was looking for it after I had done hit the reply button. Thanks.


Thank you to all for the articles from the various links. I have been reading bit of each a turn at a time when I have a free moment. I know this may disappoint a few of you but from what I’m understanding and way I am seeing it I really think my original assumption of falling in with a socialist theory rather then a communist idea was correct now this is not to say it will never change especially since I’m still new to all of this but right at the moment I’m leaning towards the working class and self Management aside socialism. I am very interested to learn more on the matter of workplace democracy and market socialism and now I am not saying that I am on board with these ideas just yet just that I do find them as a interesting read but please don’t scold me as I think I’m trying to take in to much info all at once so I may get some things mixed up at times. Nonetheless I will continue to read.

Thanks all again for the informative links

[PC LOAD LETTER]

Former "Libertarian" here ... welcome to RevLeft!