if you hate justin bieber you support patriarchy

[ed miliband]

WxqNbEzmNtk

don't necessarily support the argument but as a long term j biebz supporter i had to post this here

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

I do not really trust Dr. Robin James. I doubt she's a real doctor of anything.

But, if she's right, then apparently I am a supporter of patriarchy. YEAH, FUCK JUSTIN BIEBER AND ALL TEEN POP STARS!





:)

[Le Rouge]

I support patriarchy and i'm proud of it. :rolleyes:

I mean, what's worse? Patriarchy or Justin Bieber?

I say Bieber.

[Revolutionair]

What a bunch of nonsense.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Dr. Robin James, Professor of Philosophy at Hipster University; San Francisco, California.

[ed miliband]

bieber bieber bieber bieber justin justin justin justin

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

but as a long term j biebz supporter
You need to go to a gulag. Right now!!!

[Dr Doom]

voice of an angel
RoFXbt2tfbU

[NewLeft]

One Direction is better.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

One Direction is better.

Yeah, so much better with their one hit song.

[ed miliband]

You need to go to a gulag. Right now!!!

this is exactly the kinda thing that makes me like mr bieber

[ed miliband]

plus his cousin is lil b

[Ostrinski]

If you don't have the Bieber fever, then I don't want you standing on my side of the barricades come the revolution

[ParaRevolutionary]

What a crock.

[NewLeft]

Yeah, so much better with their one hit song.
Come at me, nicki minaj boy.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Come at me, nicki minaj boy.

I was drinking water when I read this and now my keyboard is all wet.

lol, why do you remember that mistake, Mr. One Direction.:laugh:

[#FF0000]

i thought it was p. interesting. Of course I do still think teen idol music is garbage but it bothers the fuck out of me how people are constantly hating on justin bieber -- and all really middle of the road boring shit.

like yeah shock surprise nickelback and justin bieber are bad we know you are shooting fish in a barrel.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

You know what really, really pissed me off? His movie, "Never Say Never". That piece of bullshit was propaganda for captialism. "If you work hard enough (even though I have not worked a day in my life), you can be like meeeeeeeeee, all rich and famous!" Bullshit.

[#FF0000]

justin bieber said dumb things more at 11

[Le Rouge]

Go patriarchy!

[NewLeft]

Go patriarchy!
You're asking to get your ass kicked. :lol:

[Althusser]

No one on this site should be a supporter of Justin Beiber. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a robot programmed to be a typical un-opinionated little kid artist to make money on. That's it. He's also pro-life, and when asked whether or not someone who is raped deserves to get an abortion, he said that everything happens for a reason

I also think he's a christian or some stupid shit.

[#FF0000]

yeah dogg justin bieber is awful so reactionary

*listens to death in june*

edit: lol justin biber 'supporter'

[gorillafuck]

note how justin bieber is making a huge living singing and doing jack shit while we are all posting about our depressing life problems on revleft.

[Ele'ill]

note how justin bieber is making a huge living singing and doing jack shit while we are all posting about our depressing life problems on revleft.

The solution starts May 1st.

[Ostrinski]

i thought it was p. interesting. Of course I do still think teen idol music is garbage but it bothers the fuck out of me how people are constantly hating on justin bieber -- and all really middle of the road boring shit.

like yeah shock surprise nickelback and justin bieber are bad we know you are shooting fish in a barrel.Not to mention most of the people I see getting all pissed about J Biebs have pretty terrible music taste themselves

"yeah man im against all that mainstream stuff *listens to scene deathcore shit*"

[gorillafuck]

The solution starts May 1st.okay but until may we are all pieces of shit compared to beebz.

[Ele'ill]

okay but until may we are all pieces of shit compared to beebz.

Fifteen days of humiliation *something about eating rats*

[ellipsis]

This whole thread is cringeworty. Music forum, not chit chat. Please respect forum decorum.

[Lobotomy]

I'm not a bieber fan, but any time I see someone going out of their way to spew out mad hate for bieber, I get annoyed. justin bieber's music is obviously made for preteens and teenagers, like the spice girls or something. in all likelihood, it's not made for your demographic. it reminds me of 2nd or 3rd grade when kids started saying shit like "I DON'T WATCH CARTOONS ANYMORE" or "DOLLS ARE FOR BABIES".

[Agent Ducky]

This whole thread is cringeworty. Music forum, not chit chat. Please respect forum decorum.

Just move it to Chit-Chat.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Just move it to Chit-Chat.

No, this is serious. A faux professor is speaking about a faux superstar. Show some respect for music and the analysis of it.

[ed miliband]

This whole thread is cringeworty. Music forum, not chit chat. Please respect forum decorum.

sorry - the whole forum is full of worthless posts (and i say that politely and as someone who enjoys posting here), even "serious" topics on 'learning' and 'politics' get bogged down with crap. you've locked one of my threads in 'non-political' (despite a thread on the cpgb-ml on the politics forum degenerating into much the same thing) and now this - a slightly jokey thread on a sub-forum where people mostly post youtube videos.

what's the problem?

[escapingNihilism]

funny anecdote on Bieber. I am taking a course called Anthropology of Sport this semester, and the Professor was going on about the significance of the heavyweight boxing title in the first part of the 20th Century, nothing that the title holder had been credited with also holding the position of 'Emperor of Masculinity'. clearly this no longer holds, so he posed an open question: who would you consider to be a contemporary Emperor of Masculinity. a few people gave answers, and then I raised my hand, and suggested Justin Bieber. drawing a huge roar from the crowd of 70+.

[Obs]

Everything she says is so dumb I can't even. You wouldn't think from what she's saying that her brand of "feminism" seeks to eliminate gender segregation.

[Azraella]

Some general points: I hate Bieber's music. I don't hate Bieber as a person. That seems silly to me. It's kind of like how I can hate Marilyn Manson's music while not hating Manson, the person. I also hate pretty much most pop and what passes for rock these days(though there are some guilty pleasures there). My taste in music has nothing to do with patriarchy and this woman should be ashamed that because I hate a male(mind you) singer's music I must love patriarchy. Fuck that noise.

[Art Vandelay]

I think that the criticisms of beiber are different when coming from a musicians perspective. It has nothing to do with beiber specifically, more just the state of music in general. When someone who has some sort of musical skill sees others who have none succeeding in the music industry, it makes us act like whiny babies.

[Ocean Seal]

I'm not a bieber fan, but any time I see someone going out of their way to spew out mad hate for bieber, I get annoyed. justin bieber's music is obviously made for preteens and teenagers, like the spice girls or something. in all likelihood, it's not made for your demographic. it reminds me of 2nd or 3rd grade when kids started saying shit like "I DON'T WATCH CARTOONS ANYMORE" or "DOLLS ARE FOR BABIES".
Yep.
1. YOUTUBE
2. Isn't this artist so much better than Justin Bieber
3. 100+ likes.

[ed miliband]

whilst her argument is indeed very problematic, i do think there are questions to be asked as to why so many "revolutionaries" have such a smouldering hatred for popular culture (in particular, contemporary popular culture) -- and y'all don't even cling to horkheimer and adorno to justify it. taste and appreciation of culture isn't formed in a vacuum and has a multitude of social factors underlying its development in an individual. it's perfectly possible to dislike bieber's music 'cos you think it sounds bad, but the sheer bile he raises in some individuals is pretty interesting.

this doesn't just apply to biebz but, for example, non "revolutionary" hip hop

[Ostrinski]

revolutionary hip hop is pretty awful all across the board with some exceptions

[Deicide]

I hate everyone equally. My egalitarian hatred extends to ''Bieber'' too.

[gorillafuck]

No, this is serious. A faux professor is speaking about a faux superstar. Show some respect for music and the analysis of it.*actual superstar


I think that the criticisms of beiber are different when coming from a musicians perspective. It has nothing to do with beiber specifically, more just the state of music in general. When someone who has some sort of musical skill sees others who have none succeeding in the music industry, it makes us act like whiny babies.justin bieber has more musical ability than Anal **** but I still prefer the 5643 song EP to U Smile

[Art Vandelay]

*actual superstar

justin bieber has more musical ability than Anal **** but I still prefer the 5643 song EP to U Smile

Justin Beiber really has no musical talent, most musicians today do not. What passes for musical talent in our world is a marketable image and a half decent voice. The rest, ie: the songs, music, production etc...can all be taken care of.

[Yuppie Grinder]

I love Justin Bieber as a human being and that video was stupid.

[Yuppie Grinder]

revolutionary hip hop is pretty awful all across the board with some exceptions
Justin Bieber being the most notable exception.


Justin Beiber really has no musical talent, most musicians today do not.

go to bed, dad

[Ostrinski]

I hate when people always feel the need to point out the obvious and then feel like a genius for doing so
Justin Beiber really has no musical talent, most musicians today do not. What passes for musical talent in our world is a marketable image and a half decent voice. The rest, ie: the songs, music, production etc...can all be taken care of.laffo, that's the way it's always been

[Art Vandelay]

I hate when people always feel the need to point out the obvious and then feel like a genius for doing solaffo, that's the way it's always been

You can kind of be a dick sometimes; never claimed to be a genius. But no that is not the way things have always been, not to the extent it is today at least.

[Art Vandelay]

go to bed, dad

I will take that as a compliment.

[gorillafuck]

Justin Beiber really has no musical talent, most musicians today do not.you're definitely not digging deep at all.

[Vyacheslav Brolotov]

Why do some revolutionary leftists like Justin Bieber? He is the poster boy for capitalism. Have you not ever seen Never Say Never?










Gulag

[Ostrinski]

You can kind of be a dick sometimes; never claimed to be a genius. But no that is not the way things have always been, not to the extent it is today at least.The only quality a record has ever needed in big music to be marketed is its ability to sell. Whether or not it is good or not has always been irrelevant.

[gorillafuck]

Why do some revolutionary leftists like Justin Bieber? He is the poster boy for capitalism. Have you not ever seen Never Say Never?no I have not seen that movie, and he is not the poster boy for capitalism. the "poster boy for capitalism" is not a singer whose primary demographic is young girls.

[Ostrinski]

Why do some revolutionary leftists like Justin Bieber? He is the poster boy for capitalism. Have you not ever seen Never Say Never?










GulagIf being signed to a record label is being the poster boy for capitalism then all musicians who don't self-release are the poster-boys for capitalism.

[Art Vandelay]

The only quality a record has ever needed in big music to be marketed is its ability to sell. Whether or not it is good or not has always been irrelevant.

Touche.

[Yuppie Grinder]

Why do some revolutionary leftists like Justin Bieber? He is the poster boy for capitalism. Have you not ever seen Never Say Never?










Gulag
I like him because he's cute and has a positive attitude.
I2mSwqXPNyE

[Art Vandelay]

If being signed to a record label is being the poster boy for capitalism then all musicians who don't self-release are the poster-boys for capitalism.

Some record labels, however, are run along egalitarian lines.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

rockists are as odious as capitalists, if not more

9mm, you have exactly the musical opinions i would expect from someone who defends private gun ownership

[Yuppie Grinder]

Some record labels, however, are run along egalitarian lines.
I notice you quote D. Boon in your signature. SST records, who the minutemen were signed to was not run along "egalitarian lines". Gregg Ginn was known for being a crook and fucking people over financially.
J. Mascis - "I like Greg Ginn and stuff, but they wouldn't pay you."

[Ostrinski]

Some record labels, however, are run along egalitarian lines.Which doesn't matter, of course, as even they are still a capitalist mechanism. My point is that it shouldn't matter, just enjoy music regardless of how popular it is or what label someone is on.

[Art Vandelay]

rockists are as odious as capitalists, if not more

9mm, you have exactly the musical opinions i would expect from someone who defends private gun ownership

Cool.

[Art Vandelay]

I notice you quote D. Boon in your signature. SST records, who the minutemen were signed to was not run along "egalitarian lines". Gregg Ginn was known for being a crook and fucking people over financially.
J. Mascis - "I like Greg Ginn and stuff, but they wouldn't pay you."

Never claimed they were. I was more referring to certain music collectives I know that are. But in reality these "music collectives" would better be described as like minded artists coming together to more efficiently self-release. So they probably cannot be described as a "label."

[gorillafuck]

I notice you quote D. Boon in your signature. SST records, who the minutemen were signed to was not run along "egalitarian lines". Gregg Ginn was known for being a crook and fucking people over financially.
J. Mascis - "I like Greg Ginn and stuff, but they wouldn't pay you."Greg Ginn is a musical genius but he was really bad at finances. he wasn't a crook though. he would use the money made by the bands and use those funds to release other bands, which made it so they were putting out a shitload of records, but having difficulty paying the larger bands on the label because of output expenses.

[Art Vandelay]

Greg Ginn is a musical genius but he was really bad at finances. he wasn't a crook though. he would use the money made by the bands and use those funds to release other bands, which made it so they were putting out a shitload of records, but having difficulty paying the larger bands on the label because of output expenses.

I have heard that quite a few of the black flag crowd were assholes.

[Yuppie Grinder]

I have heard that quite a few of the black flag crowd were assholes.

I'm a big fan, but Black Flag were assholes.
o-xMkHgan0Y

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

i just saw the video in question and obviously she's right. it's slightly grating in the way she's "translating" academic sociological jargon into accessible even informal language with slang and memes and shit. but i thought it was interesting that she brought up the beatles who were supposedly derrided for existing within the women centric realm of teen idol music, which im not sure is true. but it's curious to note their transformation into the living embodiment of the kyriarchy that they are today.

[ed miliband]

also all those early beatles records are full of vocal manipulation and shit cos they couldn't sing - their vocals were sped up and stuff

[gorillafuck]

it actually might be true that young boys hate Beebz because young girls love him.

he always will have my heart though.

[Lanky Wanker]

Oh god. So if I'm against Justin Bieber and shitty boy bands, and I'm ALSO against men using women as power toys, then I support patriarchy? I can't take this woman seriously. She seems to be one of those people that sit around cackling and sipping evil red wine as they think of new ways to turn everything into "THE PATRIARCHY!" -- oh noez!!

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lrolg9BoEk1qea7kco1_500.jpg

[gorillafuck]

QspuCt1FM9M

Justin Bieber, new age genius.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

I still don't know who this lesbian is or why she's famous. :confused:

[Obs]

I still don't know who this lesbian is or why she's famous. :confused:
What the fuck do you mean by that?

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

What the fuck do you mean by that?

Have you never seen lesbians who look like Justin Bieber on Tumblr?

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Oh god. So if I'm against Justin Bieber and shitty boy bands, and I'm ALSO against men using women as power toys, then I support patriarchy? I can't take this woman seriously. She seems to be one of those people that sit around cackling and sipping evil red wine as they think of new ways to turn everything into "THE PATRIARCHY!" -- oh noez!!


is this tongue in cheek or are you actually trying to vilify feminists?

[Lanky Wanker]

Have you never seen lesbians who look like Justin Bieber on Tumblr?

That's dangerous talk on this site... usually the anarcho-cappies say stuff like that.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

That's dangerous talk on this site... usually the anarcho-cappies say stuff like that.

Now I am genuinely confused, just a joke, probably not how people are taking it.

Does the Bieber fever really run so strongly here?

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

no, but legit concern about hateful bigotry and homophobia is a thing here.
and calling the woman "this lesbian" presumably based on her appearence and ideas is pretty damn bad

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

no, but legit concern about hateful bigotry and homophobia is a thing here.
and calling the woman "this lesbian" presumably based on her appearence and ideas is pretty damn bad

First off, I'm gay therefore it would seem a bit absurd and masochistic for me to harbor some "hateful bigotry," or homophobia. Secondly, I was referring to Bieber when saying that (as I've previously stated) as a joke of which I thought was fairly popular, it wasn't a reflection of any sort of bigotry just a harmless observation of which I wasn't the first to make. Thirdly, there is no reason to hung up on the "this," part especially considering I was never talking about the woman in the OP. Guess it was a bad joke, my bad, hope that clears it up.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

First off, I'm gay therefore it would seem a bit absurd and masochistic for me to harbor some "hateful bigotry," or homophobia.

i thought that latent homosexuals expressing overt homophobia was a pretty well-documented phenomenon. evidently not just the latent kind...


Guess it was a bad joketo say the least

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

i thought that latent homosexuals expressing overt homophobia was a pretty well-documented phenomenon. evidently not just the latent kind...

I don't really appreciate your tone nor was I being the least bit homophobic.

Care to elaborate on how I was being homophobic or bigoted?

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I don't really appreciate your tone nor was I being the least bit homophobic.

Care to elaborate on how I was being homophobic or bigoted?

honestly??

youre far more qualified to speak about homophobia than i, presumably, given that youre gay. but calling someone gay as an insult is clearly homophobic.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

youre far more qualified to speak about homophobia than i, presumably, given that youre gay. but calling someone gay as an insult is clearly homophobic.

See, I wasn't calling him gay as an insult more I just find it humorous that there are numerous lesbians (some of whom I personally know and are in my circle of friends) who look just like him, that was it. I wouldn't call him gay as an insult because as you said that would be blatantly homophobic and just silly.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

now im confused. did you or did you not ask who justin bierber is and why he is famous, refering to him as a gay woman?

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

now im confused. did you or did you not ask who justin bierber is and why he is famous, refering to him as a gay woman?

I was referring to him as a lesbian yes but as I previously stated due to observational comparisons; I was not implying that by virtue of him looking like a lesbian that somehow that's a bad thing and is a reflection of how much is music sucks or him as a person or whatever. Nothing wrong with looking like a lesbian, right? Just my own childish amusement, nothing more.


Goddamn. He made a stupid comment. He admitted it.

Indeed.

[#FF0000]

Oh god. So if I'm against Justin Bieber and shitty boy bands, and I'm ALSO against men using women as power toys, then I support patriarchy? I can't take this woman seriously. She seems to be one of those people that sit around cackling and sipping evil red wine as they think of new ways to turn everything into "THE PATRIARCHY!" -- oh noez!!

yo please read threads that you post in. obviously there's nothing wrong with not liking biebz musically (I don't) but i do think it's p. weird how he gets all the hate he gets and I think this is an interesting hypothesis as to why.

Tho i don't think i agree with it. A lot of the shit people put out nowadays isn't really meant to be liked. Shit like Jersey Shore is p. much universally reviled but at the same time that's kind of why that shit is popular -- because people are dummies of the highest caliber and love obsessing over things they don't like.

[The Machine]

rockists are as odious as capitalists, if not more


uhh dude...what the fuck is a rockist?

seriously is everything isms and everyone ists to you people?

anyways I like biebz because lil b

[chronix]

I like him on his first appearance on youtube but as time passed the effect of popularity in him annoys many. (being on headlines because of those scandals...gibberish).

[Os Cangaceiros]

They grow up so fast!

[Sinister Intents]

WxqNbEzmNtk

don't necessarily support the argument but as a long term j biebz supporter i had to post this here

I hate Justin Biever :) METAL 4 LYFE!!! but I fucking hate and do not support eht patriarchy!

[Os Cangaceiros]

For a narcissistic filthy-rich celebrity, I don't think he's blowing through his money nearly irresponsible enough for my (and the overall public's) sick voyeuristic amusement. He should be crashing a helicopter into his front yard while high on horse tranquilizers & blow, not going 55 in a 30 (in a Lamborghini no less!)

[Atsumari]

Justin Bieber is a overpaid celebrity that is contributing to the shallow and vulgar consumer culture, but most of his anti-fans are part of that disgusting society.
They hate Bieber not because of anti-consumerist ideology, but rather because they find their activity in the consumer culture to be better as well as a disgust that women could like a male figure that does not fit their definition of masculinity.

Think of it as being anti-Obama. There is the TEA Party who hate Obama largely do to the influence of a Democratic president as well as being ruled by an African Muslim from Kenya (racism in other words) who wishes to force a communist dystopia rather than out of anti-imperialism and a legitimate concern for humanity.

[Petrol Bomb]

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Justice_4c5c05_1746230.jpg

[Prometeo liberado]

He's the voice of our generation. I crap angels when he sings goddamn it. Patriarchy my ass.

[Taters]

He's the voice of our generation.

What? I... I thought that was Kanye.

[Prometeo liberado]

I'm confused. Are we all in agreement on the "gay lesbian" thing or what?

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

tbh i wouldn't be surprised if all this bollocks was just a marketing strategy, in the same way that miley cyrus went from disney child to sex object (not through any conscious choice, just how she was dressed by her marketing team). i bet its the same for this twirp as well, that his marketing team decided to 'rebrand' him as some kind of 'bad boy'.

the saddest thing is that people spend so much time talking/reading/thinking about it. wtf is wrong with people

[Prometeo liberado]

tbh i wouldn't be surprised if all this bollocks was just a marketing strategy, in the same way that miley cyrus went from disney child to sex object (not through any conscious choice, just how she was dressed by her marketing team). i bet its the same for this twirp as well, that his marketing team decided to 'rebrand' him as some kind of 'bad boy'.

the saddest thing is that people spend so much time talking/reading/thinking about it. wtf is wrong with people

Exactly, so we've decided that it's a no go on the whole "lesbian gay" thing right? Right? I'm so fucking lost now. And remind me again why we're talking about that guy from the partridge family?

[The Feral Underclass]

tbh i wouldn't be surprised if all this bollocks was just a marketing strategy

I am fairly convinced that this is what it is happening.

[DOOM]

That's a rather odd argument, but I get the idea behind it.
But he's still shit

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

That's a rather odd argument, but I get the idea behind it.
But he's still shit
do u think its odd that record companies construct images for their clients?

do u think that most gangsta rappers were actually gangstas?

[DOOM]

do u think its odd that record companies construct images for their clients?

do u think that most gangsta rappers were actually gangstas?
Umh no?

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

soz i think i misinterpreted what u were sayin

[Rosa Partizan]

Well, I don't know. So, what to do? Celebrating bubblegum pop? Besides, how can she mention Bikini Kill in line with JB? Wtf is this? In the end, there are the same white, old record company men behind Bieber's success as with stars like Miley Cyrus. There is a lot of great, empowering music for young ladies (and guys) aside from the billboard charts, so why not concentrate on this? Why concentrate on a phenomenon that is a symptom of music's commercialization and neoliberalism?

[PhoenixAsh]

I can not really express or articulate why I hate Justin Bieber but I think he infantilizes women with pedantic lyrics which are borderline sexist in the sense that they enforce a certain stereotypical behavior. In combination with the influence he has over his fans...I find this...worrying. (although I sure as hell realize that when it comes to sexism...he is far far from the worse)

I don't like his racist caricatures he spray paints. I don't like him spitting on fans. I don't like his stance on abortion and rape. I don't like his overtly sexist merchandise (which was discontinued).

And maybe it is just because of the hysterical behavior of his fans....both male and female.

Now...maybe the guy can sing. I don't know. His songs aren't my style. And his music isn't my style. Maybe one day I will discover something sung by him I actually like...which happened recently with an NSYNC song (I think it was them)...to my absolute and utter dismay.

But today is not that day. Today he is still an entitled right wing prick in my eyes. And I love he got arrested. And I laugh at the attempts to get him deported....and the White House now has to address the issue :D

What I absolutely detest however is how some critics attack him with homophobic and sexist rants and images. Comparing the guy to a girl as if that was bad...and it somehow reflects on his skills. That is worrying...and the fact that this is seen as totally acceptable is even more worrying.

[Thirsty Crow]

don't necessarily support the argument but as a long term j biebz supporter i had to post this here
It's ridiculous to hate the guy. Especially on grounds of him being effeminate and whatnot. That is a matter of a kind of sexism.

But boy do two other issues interweave here: the repugnant character of the celebrity culture and his position in it, and the shit that is his music.

[MEGAMANTROTSKY]

Go patriarchy!


Careful, or you'll end up getting banned via a kangaroo court run by the admins.

[blake 3:17]

From the Amanda Bynes Liberation Front:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/2b0242ff4b221a8bc86e8baada334152/tumblr_n0cp9l0bo01sop0l0o1_400.jpg

[Hermes]

It's ridiculous to hate the guy. Especially on grounds of him being effeminate and whatnot. That is a matter of a kind of sexism.

But boy do two other issues interweave here: the repugnant character of the celebrity culture and his position in it, and the shit that is his music.

Iunno. Pretty much everywhere he goes he treats everyone who serves him like shit, and doesn't even seem to care about his fans all that much. I agree that it's absolutely nonsense to hate him for being effeminate, but he honestly just seems like a gigantic dick.

[Igor]

From the Amanda Bynes Liberation Front:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/2b0242ff4b221a8bc86e8baada334152/tumblr_n0cp9l0bo01sop0l0o1_400.jpgwe need more defenestrations

[Thirsty Crow]

Iunno. Pretty much everywhere he goes he treats everyone who serves him like shit,As I said, celebrity culture. The scope of the concept of culture can take up more practices and forms of behavior than people might suppose, though to be honest, I didn't elaborate on my take on it. And yes, I do take this relationship between the fans and the star as one that is fit for study through this lens.


and doesn't even seem to care about his fans all that much. I agree that it's absolutely nonsense to hate him for being effeminate, but he honestly just seems like a gigantic dick.
I don't know, I'd say that many people occupying a similar position have proven themselves to be real pricks. Nothing so special about him, I'd say.

[E-Shock Executioner]

WxqNbEzmNtk

don't necessarily support the argument but as a long term j biebz supporter i had to post this here

Justin bieber, or patriarchy

Oh the choices...

[BIXX]

I believe I read somewhere he came out against abortion (and possibly queer rights). I dunno if this had been posted in this thread but yeah.

Also he's a sexist and classist piece of shit so whatever he can burn for all I care.

[Comrade #138672]

I support patriarchy and i'm proud of it. :rolleyes:

I mean, what's worse? Patriarchy or Justin Bieber?

I say Bieber.I would still say patriarchy. Justin Bieber is annoying as hell, yes, but this is not comparable to the suffering caused by patriarchy.

[Hermes]

As I said, celebrity culture. The scope of the concept of culture can take up more practices and forms of behavior than people might suppose, though to be honest, I didn't elaborate on my take on it. And yes, I do take this relationship between the fans and the star as one that is fit for study through this lens.


I don't know, I'd say that many people occupying a similar position have proven themselves to be real pricks. Nothing so special about him, I'd say.

Again, I'm not trying to say that Bieber is especially bad. I recognize that there are many that are probably worse than him.

I'm not sure why that prevents me from 'hating'/disliking Bieber, though, so long as I dislike them (as people), as well.

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding your/their argument, though (wouldn't be the first time!).

[Kazu]

Bullshit. Justin Bieber once said "Rape happens for a reason".

[Rosa Partizan]

I believe I read somewhere he came out against abortion (and possibly queer rights). I dunno if this had been posted in this thread but yeah.

Also he's a sexist and classist piece of shit so whatever he can burn for all I care.

It seems to have been kind of a misunderstanding. He is quoted as " 'Um. Well, I think that's really sad [referring to abortion], but everything happens for a reason. I don't know how that would be a reason. I guess I haven't been in that position, so I wouldn't be able to judge that.' "

I hardly believe that he's reflected any feminist issue, but I appreciate him saying "So I wouldn't be able to judge that".

[Rugged Collectivist]

I just think it's hilarious that that professor tried to argue that Justin Bieber's music is objectively good.

[Tenka]

I don't believe teen idol fan culture is anything like "the opposite of patriarchy", nor do I believe Justin Bieber is a half-decent singer, nor do I believe teen idol music is any worse than pop music in general! I disagree with this speaker and with the people with whom she disagrees. This post is looking really ugly right now, because I listened to the video. If I had not listened to the video in the OP I would have said something substantial, probably.

Jerks are confused who criticise him for effeminacy or whatever--it is not only sexist, but also he's pretty fucking masculine and has been since he stopped being an 11-year-old youtube sensation with long fringe... :rolleyes:

[PhoenixAsh]

It seems to have been kind of a misunderstanding. He is quoted as " 'Um. Well, I think that's really sad [referring to abortion], but everything happens for a reason. I don't know how that would be a reason. I guess I haven't been in that position, so I wouldn't be able to judge that.' "

I hardly believe that he's reflected any feminist issue, but I appreciate him saying "So I wouldn't be able to judge that".

He stated he doesn't believe in abortion because it is like killing a baby. He was then asked what in the case of rape? And then he said what you quote. 'Um. Well, I think that's really sad but everything happens for a reason. I don't know how that would be a reason. I guess I haven't been in that position, so I wouldn't be able to judge that.' "

The writer of the story in RS later said this confusing thing about it

"I think he meant that God has a plan," the writer told the site. "Even for the most die-hard Christian, it's hard to justify rape as part of God's plan, and harder to justify rape that leads to pregnancy and abortion. I think he was wrestling with that in his answer, which I found to be solid and logical. I think it is being widely misunderstood. He did not say that rape was part of God's plan."

[Ocean Seal]

In short, most people who hate on the biebs do it out of sexism (ie: Justin Bieber is effeminate so I'll make fun of him for that. Justin Bieber is a homosexual. etc.)
Things that are wrong with J Biebs and here they are
--He gets preferential treatment from the courts and ICE.
On the other hand it does expose quite a degree of hypocrisy in our idea on the terror of "criminal immigrants".
--Is he a sexist: Yes.
But not because he infantilizes women. He is a standard pop-star who speaks to 12 yo girls because they haven't discovered piracy yet. He's a sexist because of his views on abortion and rape.
++ He exposes quite a degree of sexism in society especially with his recent prison stint and the non-stop jokes about dropping the soap.

**One last thing there is no reason to support any artist, especially one signed and riding around drunk in a Ferrari.

[Roach]

Bieber is the Yukio Mishima of the West.

Justin Bieber: the aesthetics of destruction
by Sam Kriss

Oh no no, oh no no/ I have come to cast fire upon the earth; and how I wish it were already kindled!
– Justin Bieber, Confident


I live in fear of Justin Bieber in much the same way that people once lived in fear of God. It’s hard to think of anyone alive that I regard with such terror and fascination and respect. Last week Justin Bieber was hauled in by Miami cops for dragracing, driving under the influence, and resisting arrest. His booking photo shows him grinning at the police camera with a face full of boyish insouciance and a mouth full of Hollywood-white teeth. It’s all a lie. Justin Bieber has the eyes of a predator. Not a shark, not something driven by pure animal need, but a brutally human predator. His eyes are cold – but they’re not dead, they shine with an obscene excess of life. He sees you, and already you disgust him. Justin Bieber wants to put a torch to the world, and he wants to burn up with it.

There are some people (generally in our ghastly po-faced commentariat) who make it their business to moralise about the psychological effect that stardom has on young idols like Bieber, agonising over how they’re broken and abused by a cynical celebrity culture. I find this attitude revolting. These kids have been robbed of everything (a normal life, a normal death), and in return all they get is cold clunking money and the ephemeral fart of fame – but now these altruists want to rob them of their madness too. The same goes for all the celebrity do-gooders trying to leech themselves on Bieber’s misbehaviour. Will Smith, Adam Levine, Mark Wahlberg, Eminem, and Oprah Winfrey have all tried to ‘reach out’ to the child star in a desperate pious attempt to steer him back onto the path of righteousness. A darkly approaching flock of pestilential vultures. They don’t understand Justin Bieber at all; they understand him even less than his fans.

Justin Bieber is, of course, mad. On this point the whimpering columnists are completely correct. The kid can’t post ‘good morning’ on Twitter without ten thousand acolytes screaming their love for him. This kind of adulation has been compared to Beatlemania, but of course it’s completely different. The fans that gathered to greet John, Paul and co. could only be perceived as a single crowd projecting a single piercing din. They belonged to the era of mass social movements; today’s Beliebers are an unending digital stream of individuated bits. Justin Bieber isn’t famous or well-liked; he’s adored and raised to the level of master-signifier by fifty million individual totalities. There’s always a hideous aspect to the desire of the other, a faint putrid taste, born from a lingering infantile resentment towards your own specular image. Nobody wants to see themselves through the eyes of another person, even if it’s as an object of love; to cross the boundary of the subject is to induce the nausea of abjection. Multiply this effect by fifty million. The last people to experience a similar psychological effect to today’s pop stars were the Egyptian pharaohs, and they all went insane and fucked their sisters.

What distinguishes Justin Bieber is the precise trajectory his madness has taken. For all the panic over his bad-boy breakaway antics, they’ve been comparatively quite mild. He left an ill-advised note in the guestbook at the Anne Frank Museum, he pissed in a mop-bucket, he turned up late to a concert, he punched a paparazzo (which is really less a sign of incipient degeneracy and more a general Kantian ethical duty), he insulted Bill Clinton (ditto), he drove a fast car, he egged his neighbour’s house. All in all, it’s more Cliff Richard than Lou Reed, barely worth a footnote in the annals of celebrity libertinage. I used to think that Justin Bieber was slowly descending into a hedonistic death-spiral and that we’d get to watch the whole grimly compelling tragedy play out live before our captive eyes. I was wrong. Everything he does is very carefully contrived: he’s engaged in a performance of hedonism, a self-conscious parody of excess. He’s writing the narrative for his own self-immolation, because it’s what he wants.

What kind of story is Justin Bieber trying to tell? There’s something very 19th century about him; for all his synthesised backing tracks he seems to have stepped right out of the dawning of modernity. His pseudo-hedonism isn’t a product of teenage rebellion and surging narcissism but a total and all-encompassing boredom. At the age of nineteen he’s been a global phenomenon for six years; he knows how little this world has to offer him. He’s a tubercular nihilist, a hero of Charles Baudelaire or Ivan Turgenev. Like Bazarov in Fathers and Sons he seems weary of his own pleasures: the blood circulates, the brain works and even desires something as well… What sheer ugliness! What sheer nonsense! The narrative he’s so diligently crafting has as its purpose the aestheticisation of his omnicidal ennui. Justin Bieber has a hunger, but it’s not a hunger for life; rather the hunger of a life beyond its bounds. He’s the first pop star to stand on the summit of his fame and bellow: I want less! There is too much of everything, complains Chremylos in Aristophanes’ Plutus. Justin Bieber will set this right. What he wants isn’t more fame or more money or more fun: pointless, boring trifles for lesser men. He wants beauty, which is the most dangerous thing of all.

The story goes that Minos, king of Crete, faced a challenge to his rule, and asked the god Poseidon for a sign of his favour. In response, Poseidon sent a beautiful white bull out of the waves, such an exemplar of bovine perfection that the ancient writers often spend most of their account rhapsodising about its gloriousness. The proper thing would have been for Minos to have slaughtered the bull at once and carbonise its body in tribute to the god that gifted it to him. Instead he decided to keep it. Poseidon had his revenge: he had the king’s wife Pasiphae become so entranced by the beast that she actually fucked it; the result was the legendary Minotaur of Knossos. The moral of the story is clear: the true beauty of things lies in their destruction. Let them carry on for too long, and they’ll create monsters. I don’t know if Justin Bieber ever heard the story of King Minos, but he certainly seems to understand it.

Justin Bieber is, of course, a fascist. Like Yukio Mishima, he wants to turn his death into a work of art; unlike Mishima he has no Emperor to be his unwitting patron. All he has is himself, and his fans, and his boredom – his is a pure fascism, unattached to any political project. This is why I can’t help but admire him: he’s refined radical Evil into something weightless and infinitely potent. Fifty million people follow Justin Bieber on Twitter, a number that dwarfs the combined force of every military on the planet. This is the way the world ends: not with a bang or a whimper, but with a swaggering bassline that cracks the bedrock of the continents and a billowing autotuned vocal track that sends them plunging into the fires at the centre of the world.

http://samkriss.wordpress.com/2014/01/25/justin-bieber-the-aesthetics-of-destruction/

[Ritzy Cat]

"If you like hard candy you are fascist"

[Rosa Partizan]

The more I think about this video, the more stupid it appears.

[blake 3:17]

http://31.media.tumblr.com/d3c5c7000d5360018b1fdd4960f6ac15/tumblr_n0gexeisq81r6h67xo1_250.jpg

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

Justin Bieber is a rape apologist. Fuck that muthafucka!

[Prometeo liberado]

I think y'all are making some valid points. Come years from now we will all be talking about where we were when we read the Bieber thread. Voice of a generation.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

Justin Bieber is a overpaid celebrity that is contributing to the shallow and vulgar consumer culture, but most of his anti-fans are part of that disgusting society.
They hate Bieber not because of anti-consumerist ideology, but rather because they find their activity in the consumer culture to be better as well as a disgust that women could like a male figure that does not fit their definition of masculinity.

Think of it as being anti-Obama. There is the TEA Party who hate Obama largely do to the influence of a Democratic president as well as being ruled by an African Muslim from Kenya (racism in other words) who wishes to force a communist dystopia rather than out of anti-imperialism and a legitimate concern for humanity.

Justin Bieber is anti-choice and thinks that rape happens for a reason. It goes well beyond his consumerist bullshit.

[tallguy]

WxqNbEzmNtk

don't necessarily support the argument but as a long term j biebz supporter I had to post this here

So, here we are at the start of the twenty first century in the midst of a global uprising from Cairo to Kiev with more cities around the world on fire than has been the case for decades. Where the global elites are beginning to quake in their boots and are enacting ever more transparent measures of suppression. Where peoples all over the globe are waking up, rising up. Where, if ever there was a time, now is the time for the left to show leadership, show courage, show vision and show the way.

But hey, let's spend some time arguing about how we hate/love Justin fucking Bieber and how this reveals our underlying support for patriarchy shall we

Jesus fucking wept.

[Atsumari]

Justin Bieber is anti-choice and thinks that rape happens for a reason. It goes well beyond his consumerist bullshit.
And how many Bieber anti-fans hate him because of that? Almost every single anti-fan will resort to because he is a "faggot," horrible singer, and well, use to sound like a girl before they even mention anything about rape apology.


So, here we are at the start of the twenty first century in the midst of a global uprising from Cairo to Kiev with more cities around the world on fire than has been the case for decades. Where the global elites are beginning to quake in their boots and are enacting ever more transparent measures of suppression. Where peoples all over the globe are waking up, rising up. Where, if ever there was a time, now is the time for the left to show leadership, show courage, show vision and show the way.

But hey, let's spend some time arguing about how we hate/love Justin fucking Bieber and how this reveals our underlying support for patriarchy shall we

Jesus fucking wept.

That statement is ridiculous. We talk about politics all the time here, you can easily navigate yourself towards the political section. If we rarely talk about politics, I would be more worried.

[Loony Le Fist]

I find Bieber repulsive because he comes off as a tryhard and representative of consumerist culture. Especially with his more recent attention grabbing antics. Of course, this pretty much applies to nearly all celebrities of his ilk. So this criticism isn't in any way specific to him.


Justin Bieber is a rape apologist. Fuck that muthafucka!

Now I dislike him even more. :mad:

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

And how many Bieber anti-fans hate him because of that? Almost every single anti-fan will resort to because he is a "faggot," horrible singer, and well, use to sound like a girl before they even mention anything about rape apology.

I think you're stereotyping the anti-fans aren't you? I clearly hate Justin Bieber and it is clearly because he thinks it is okay for the law to regulate womyn's bodies as he said in that interview. I clearly hate his saying that rape "happens for a reason." The fact that he makes shitty music even falls to the back burner after that. I've known plenty of feminists who agree with me on this.

Plus, IF I were to listen to a popstar, I'd go down the female pop-country star route because I like the sound better. (Not incredibly macho-oriented either, I get enough of that with my tank-girl-esque mentality)

[Loony Le Fist]

... I get enough of that with my tank-girl-esque mentality)

Don't mean to derail too much here, but you created a segway. What do you think of the movie Tank Girl?

[Atsumari]

I think you're stereotyping the anti-fans aren't you? I clearly hate Justin Bieber and it is clearly because he thinks it is okay for the law to regulate womyn's bodies as he said in that interview. I clearly hate his saying that rape "happens for a reason." The fact that he makes shitty music even falls to the back burner after that. I've known plenty of feminists who agree with me on this.

Plus, IF I were to listen to a popstar, I'd go down the female pop-country star route because I like the sound better. (Not incredibly macho-oriented either, I get enough of that with my tank-girl-esque mentality)
You seem to forget that the majority of kids these days are less concerned with social issues such as abortion and sexual violence, but rather if they can rally their Linkin Park Internet Militia to show the YouTubes how their music is "true" music.

[Slavic]

You seem to forget that the majority of kids these days are less concerned with social issues such as abortion and sexual violence, but rather if they can rally their Linkin Park Internet Militia to show the YouTubes how their music is "true" music.

Yet all the "Anti-fans" in here don't like him specifically for those reasons.

I don't like him because is a rich douche-bag, not because I'm jealous that woman like Justin Beiber. Thats just a silly argument.

[Atsumari]

RevLeft is not the majority of anti-fans.

[Slavic]

RevLeft is not the majority of anti-fans.

Could you provide a link where the majority of anti-fans are anti-fans because they are jealous of his ability to swoon large crowds of women as opposed to just not liking him because he is a douche-bag.

Everytime I ever hear someone or see something on the news about Justin Beiber, the attention is on his shitty attitude and his general "douch-bag-like" actions. Not because everyone is sooooper jelly about his stature.

[Atsumari]

http://www.thetoptens.com/reasons-hate-justin-bieber/
Also, I went to high school for 4 years. I heard this shit almost daily at one point. Use control F to find rape and abortion.

[Slavic]

http://www.thetoptens.com/reasons-hate-justin-bieber/
Also, I went to high school for 4 years. I heard this shit almost daily at one point. Use control F to find rape and abortion.

Oh wow a list.

So if I were to infer from this list.

2 of the top 3 refer to his musical ability. So people don't like him because they don't like his music, that sounds fair.

[sixdollarchampagne]

One Direction is better.

At last, a grasp of the undeniably obvious! Thanks, compa!

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

Don't mean to derail too much here, but you created a segway. What do you think of the movie Tank Girl?

One of my favorite movies.

[mindsword]

Baby Baby Baby
Oh Baby

Ah yes, the words of a genious womans struggle theorist.

If this argument does not make any oppressed female want to throw away their chains and join the revolutionary movement nothing will.

Id like to read more of his literature, but im busy studying up on RickyMartinism.
Got some heavy reading in front of me.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

Ah yes, the words of a genious womans struggle theorist.

If this argument does not make any oppressed female want to throw away their chains and join the revolutionary movement nothing will.

Id like to read more of his literature, but im busy studying up on RickyMartinism.
Got some heavy reading in front of me.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[PhoenixAsh]

I want to like that post three or four times.

[Invader Zim]

"JB and teen idol music does blow goats and it isn't at all patriarchal to note it." - Dr Zim

Thread over.

[mindsword]

:o

Im flattered.

[mindsword]

7 rofls, and 3 to 4 thanks from one person. :o Im flattered.

[GodOfEvil]

who care about JB

[GodOfEvil]

just because he is popular does not mean you should hate him. don't even think about him and you will be happy

[Atsumari]

Who cares about your bumps? Don't even bump old threads we do not care about and we will be happy.

[GodOfEvil]

Who cares about your bumps? Don't even bump old threads we do not care about and we will be happy.
i had to get to 25 post so i can post stuff

[TheFox]

I don't "support" patriarchy and I hate Justin. Does this mean I'm in some weird gray area?

[Sea]

Fuck Bieber.
Fuck the Beatles. They were just as bad of a boy band as Wand Erection.
Fuck Patriarchy.

Fuck you.