Pros and Cons of a Vanguard Party

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

What are the pros and cons of a Vanguard Party?

[Ocean Seal]

Cons: No revolution

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

Cons: No revolution
That are some nice arguments.

[Rooster]

The main drawback is that it's sectarian. And besides, the whole point is kinda moot. The real organs of workers power, such as the soviets, came about independently of so called vanguard parties (and especially the Bolsheviks who had a disdain for them to begin with).

[Railyon]

Guess it all comes down to what your conception of vanguard is; whether it is the leader or the sidekick of revolution.

[roy]

Wait... Just who are the Vanguard Party and why do I need them to lead me to revolution?

[Hit The North]

It is the vanguard of the class that is important, not the self-appointed vanguard parties, although the best of them have a role to play.

However, the word 'party' emphasises a collective political force based around a key set of aims and values and says nothing about how long the party should exist for, or what organisational form it should take.

I'll also note that when the vanguard of the class acts as a party it is a massive force to behold.

[Railyon]

However, the word 'party' emphasises a collective political force based around a key set of aims and values and says nothing about how long the party should exist for, or what organisational form it should take.

I think it's the same as the state issue; conflation with bourgeois concepts just muddies the waters. If a vanguard party is structured like bourgeois parties, top-down with an elitist clique deciding its politics and the base either accepting it or getting stuffed, all hope is lost. Like the SED slogan, "the party is always right" - yeah, sure...

Maybe the left ought to re-define some key concepts to reflect changes in semantics and outlining differences to bourgeois terms. If you call A as B, people will assume it is B. I see this issue with party and state.

[honest john's firing squad]

the SED slogan, "the party is always right"
haha, seriously? that's an orwellian slogan if i ever heard one.

[honest john's firing squad]

Guess it all comes down to what your conception of vanguard is; whether it is the leader or the sidekick of revolution.
a vanguard party is a leader, but in a different sense, as you will find out below.


Wait... Just who are the Vanguard Party
it helps to ignore bourgeois preconceptions about the definition of the term 'party' as we understand it today.

if i've got my facts right, 'party' (in a political context) at the time of early marx and engels just meant any conceivable interest group, really. a vanguard party simply refers to any group of workers who are at the forefront of the class struggle -- and this group could be huge, or it could be tiny; it could simply be an amorphous mass of pissed-off workers occupying their factory, or it could be rank-and-file members of an established organisation with a rigid structure and hierarchy (i find it pretty laughable that members of such an organisation's bureaucracy or administration could be at the forefront of any class action) who initiate a general strike.

at least this is how i've always understood it.

the important thing to take out of this is that 'party' probably doesn't mean what you think it means, and that everyone should support a vanguard party when it arises (hint: there is no vanguard party in existence anywhere as i type this).

[InTheEnd]

You might need to refine the question.