Economics Major??

[prezsky]

Hey everyone, im finishing up my first year in college and ive been a socialist for about 2 years now and currently im on the tract to becoming an economics major. Is that weird at all? i mean i feel like all im learning is procapitalist economics and thats not what i want. Do you think its too late too change my major to not end up graduating later?? i just want to make money to pay off my loans and idk what else i could do that interest me and gets enough to pay off debt. idk what are your thoughts on all this??

[Mista Commie]

Well, and I don't mean to be rude, but why would you take an economics course and expect it to be Pro-socialist? The bourgeois like to keep it that way. If I were you, I would do something I like to do. I am currently in high school, and I am looking at becoming a history (I would be a Civics teacher, but I would have to teach Capitalist propaganda :glare:) teacher possibly, despite their low pay.

[MustCrushCapitalism]

"Education is a weapon, whose effect depends on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed." –Joseph Stalin

Can't really expect any education in the United States to be pro-socialist. The amount of indoctrination in American schools is massive.

[kashkin]

I don't think there is anything wrong about learning economics, on the contrary it gives a greater understanding of capitalism and how it works. But yeah, it will be very pro-capitalist (as if there was any doubt) and almost certainly neo-classical.

[robear]

Just study something you enjoy. Perhaps a way to help make your study of economics more effective is to look for ways to refute any of the pro-capitalist arguments made.

[NewLeft]

Some schools offer specialized third year courses on Marxian economics, if that's of interest. You should just go for the econ major, but I'm not sure how your outlook is.. job wise. You can probably draw a couple parallels between Marx and Keynes.

[Ostrinski]

Well you should switch if you're not enjoying it, but I don't see the problem with learning about financial economics. Did you expect it to be all theoretical?

[Mista Commie]

Just study something you enjoy. Perhaps a way to help make your study of economics more effective is to look for ways to refute any of the pro-capitalist arguments made.

Good point actually! :thumbup1:

[Mista Commie]

"Education is a weapon, whose effect depends on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed." –Joseph Stalin

Can't really expect any education in the United States to be pro-socialist. The amount of indoctrination in American schools is massive.


Believe me, my Civics class in High School just finished the Capitalist-Socialist-Communist economic systems. That book has subtle anti-Communist messages :thumbdown:. And we have to debate the different systems, and my teacher is randomly picking us (fingers crossed for Communism, or at least Socialism :unsure:).

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Well, i also am studying economics now. But i don't know what you exactly call this in english, i study VolksWirtschaft, which is basically social economy not financial or capitalist propaganda as they normally are. I'm also thinking about taking a branch in this to Wirtschaftsgeschichte, economic history.

[Anarcho-Brocialist]

When I got my M.S. in civil engineering my professors were conservative, when I got my M.A. in philosophy, my professors were fans of American liberalism. Not one was a socialist.

A copious of your economic professors are neo-liberals, and studies will evolve around the axiom of free-exchange, not banishment of capital.

Pursue a degree that bears complacency and yields a decorous occupation.

[Red Economist]

Hey everyone, im finishing up my first year in college and ive been a socialist for about 2 years now and currently im on the tract to becoming an economics major. Is that weird at all? i mean i feel like all im learning is procapitalist economics and thats not what i want. Do you think its too late too change my major to not end up graduating later?? i just want to make money to pay off my loans and idk what else i could do that interest me and gets enough to pay off debt. idk what are your thoughts on all this??

I studied economics for a little over a year at university. I left because the course made me so unhappy as I found it was 'ammoral' and it became something of a 'your money or your life' decision for me. it was however a very painful decision because of the non-conformity and leaving some good freinds behind at uni.

I had an interest in economics since studying the great depression at secondary school. I then studied it at A-level and was really good at it, but I didn't realise how 'orthodox' a university degree was when I applied to study it.

there were two things that made me feel twisted about continuing to study economics:

the first and most important was that I didn't agree with it; I began to feel that I would graduate and then get a job where I would have to sit and tell people 'what they wanted to hear' (and it not necessarily being in their best interest) and ignore the human costs of capitalism.

the second was that I was studying economics during the credit crunch. this affected how valid the content of the textbooks was and because I actually wanted to know the 'truth', I decided it wasen't worth studying.

there are a couple of things I'd highlight on this, as I'm not sure what you may have come accross:

* econometrics (maths for economics) uses derivates to average out credit ratings. Toxic Assets, as with sub-prime mortagages, are therefore mixed in with excellent assets and this 'averages out' the credit rating making them (appear) safe. I have heard that many banks hired mathamticians in the 1970's after they left NASA so they could try to 'market' financial instruments. most of the bankers in the credit crunch didn't know what derivatives actualy did, and had no qualifications in banking.

* rational choice theory (maximising benifits, minising costs) is good for economics, but would constitute grossly unethical behavior anywhere else because it considers the most efficient way to achieve a goal, not the ethical value of that particular goal. (this has something of a 'little eichman' quality about it).

*additionally, rational choice theory rests on assumptions of human nature (self-interest) which are scientifically dubious and, along with game theory was developed to justify 'winning' a nuclear war.

* John Nash (played by Russell Crowe in a Beautiful Mind) made a contribution to game theory (the 'Nash Eqilibruim') whilst he was suffering from paranoid schizophrenia and has since said that his theories were influnced by his illness. economics has accepted his theories without qualification or criticism and they continue to influence policy, paritucarly on climate change negiotiations. this is a pretty good indicator that the mental state of economists is not healthy.

* I studied financial management and was taught about the 'modernist approach'. it works through borrowing money inorder to invest and to make a profit. it has an underlying assumption of growth; i.e. 'the market is going up, it can't go down, so you can't possbly loose'. (what was known as 'margin payments' in 1929).

* most economists do not accept the existence of the bussiness cycle, but instead believe in 'supply-side' or 'demand-side' shocks. this came up in a morning lecture on bussiness cycles, after I had eaten breakfast and seen on the TV that george bush was bailing out the banks, which was 'surreal' to say the least. many economists at the time told bankers and governments that 'this can't be happening, because out models do not predict it!'.

* following de-regulations in the US,financial instruments from agriculture (heagde funds, I think) have meant that Banks now speculate on the prices of basic commodities which affects the price of food, oil, etc. the increase price of food since the begining of 2000 has pushed 100 million people into hunger and caused civil unrest in many countries around the world in 2007/8.

* peer-review in economics means that it will take something like ten years for economists to develop theories which can become accepted as a result of the crisis.

I wasen't the only person who dropped out of economics for ideological reasons. there was a left-wing fascist and a libertarian who dropped out as well of my class of about 20 people (they changed to politics), so I don't think it's uncommon.

I have found many of the neo-classical/ neo-liberal economic concepts such as oppurtunity cost and economic rationality useful to understand how to make decisions as an individual in a capitalist economy and is helpful playing economic sims like Capitalism II. but I would take them with a fairly heavy dose of ethics as economics considers what is the most 'efficient' allocation of resources to achieve a goal, not the ethical worthiness of a particular goal.

If your considering changing course or university it is essential to check with someone what the financial and administrative practicalities are. I live in the Uk and found that I wouldn't be eligable for a student loan for a second course and hence it made it financially impossible for me to study at another university.

If it helps I eventually joined the open university (http://www.open.ac.uk/) so I could study from home (parents covering the cost of accomodation and food etc). my year in economics counted as credit toward this degree (I got a 'certificate of higher education' for it), so it wasen't a waste of time academically. I am currently completing an 'open degree' which means I can pick and choose modules from different subjects and have since done ones in Politics, Islam, globalisation and the environment rather than strict disciplines.

Whilst obviously I have some fairly strong opinions on this, My advice would be to consider how important your socialist beliefs are, how you would want them to affect your future and whether you feel this is in conflict with graduating from economics and what decision would make you happiest. This is something of a big decision, so you should take your time, talk with friends, family, lecturers etc, and try to then figure out what this does for your career.

[Railyon]

Well, i also am studying economics now. But i don't know what you exactly call this in english, i study VolksWirtschaft, which is basically social economy not financial or capitalist propaganda as they normally are.

Same here (also in Germany).

I don't know about the capitalist propaganda part though, a lot of it clearly is, especially in the first year courses.

I mainly picked it up to be able to translate the effects of their proposed policies and market mechanism to people outside that academic field - infused with a healthy dose of Marxist worldviews most of the fundamental market principles show the destructiveness of it all.

A lot of it is utter bullshit though, but that should come to no surprise to anyone. I don't think my uni has any halfway economic courses related to marxism, what about you?



the first and most important was that I didn't agree with it; I began to feel that I would graduate and then get a job where I would have to sit and tell people 'what they wanted to hear' (and it not necessarily being in their best interest) and ignore the human costs of capitalism.

That's also my gripe with it. Being on the opposite side of orthodoxy, having no meaningful job prospects unless you give in to it. Pretty much the only options I could think of right now that could do with unorthodoxy would be teaching assistants and union advisors and both are pretty stupid in their own respects.