Zdrastvuite Tovarischi!

[Vapaus]

Um, hey, comrades...I think I joined here under the same name once before but I guess the account expired or something...but yeah, hi. :)

I'm from New York City, currently studying in Massachusetts for another month...however I am very much looking forward to getting out of this country again soon! I am headed to Moscow for the summer.

Anyway, my primary purpose in joining the forum is in the hope of learning and gaining a better understanding of revolutionary left-wing ideology, in all its forms and tendencies... :reda::hammersickle:

My own views are in a bit of a state of flux...I admit at one time in my life I was somewhat of a right-winger, but haven't been for quite some time; contrary to the conventional 'wisdom', as I mature, I find myself moving leftward, not rightward...anyhow right now I'd say I lean somewhat toward anarchism, being influenced by people such as Goldman, Bakunin, Kropotkin, Bookchin, etc. I'm not sure whether to label myself anarchist, libertarian socialist, left libertarian, anarcho-communist, etc, etc...to be honest I don't much like the idea of having to shoehorn my views to fit a particular a label in the first place. I can state unequivocally that I am against capitalism, and all the injustice, racism, sexism, homophobia, imperialism, war, etc., which seem to emanate from it. But I would really like to learn a lot more before I really commit myself to any particular 'ism'...

While I don't consider myself a Marxist (and certainly not a Marxist-Leninist), I am definitely interested in better understanding the Marxist point of view...I have spent a fair amount of time studying Soviet history, and I have always been fascinated by it. I can't say I'm a fan of a certain mustachioed Georgian dictator, however... I do wonder how much differently things would have turned out without him...:trotski:

Anyway, I hope that even if we disagree, we will able to have some intelligent and civil debates on this forum....I post on a few other 'political' fora, and it's quite embarrassing what a sewer political discourse has become, especially in the U.S.... I trust that the level of discourse here is higher than just calling everyone you disagree with "libtard!" or "Obammunist!" :rolleyes:

So, um, peace. :redstar2000:

[Sentinel]

I think I joined here under the same name once before but I guess the account expired or something


Welcome! Do you have finnish roots, considering the username?



While I don't consider myself a Marxist (and certainly not a Marxist-Leninist), I am definitely interested in better understanding the Marxist point of view...I have spent a fair amount of time studying Soviet history, and I have always been fascinated by it. I can't say I'm a fan of a certain mustachioed Georgian dictator, however... I do wonder how much differently things would have turned out without him...


It sounds like you should check out Trotskyism. ;)

[Monty Cantsin]

Hi

[Vapaus]

Welcome! Do you have finnish roots, considering the username?

Thanks for the welcome. :)

Actually my grandfather was Finnish, although he grew up in Leningrad.

I do wish I would have learned the Finnish language from him as a child though, it's quite a monumental task as an adult!

I would very much like to visit Finland (and Sweden too, naturally ;)). I planned to go during Spring Break when I was studying in Italy last year, but then I realized I wasn't quite packed for the slightly snowier Nordic climate...:ohmy:



It sounds like you should check out Trotskyism. ;)I am quite interested in learning more about Trotskyism. (Of course the prospect of anyone other than Stalin leading the Soviet Union is always intriguing to me...)

But I really haven't read anything by Trotsky other than an introduction he wrote to an abridged version of Capital...

I recall reading Emma Goldman, however, portray Trotsky as somewhat of a monster for his actions at Kronstadt.:trotski::eek:

Nevertheless, if you have anything by Trotsky or about Trotskyism for a newcomer, I'd be happy to take recommendations; I promise I'd keep an open mind...

[Sentinel]

Actually my grandfather was Finnish, although he grew up in Leningrad. Quite interesting! My own parents also considered moving to Russia at one point.


I do wish I would have learned the Finnish language from him as a child though, it's quite a monumental task as an adult! I understand, it's a very interesting language. But as it indeed is almost impossible to learn for foreigners and thusly mostly is spoken in Finland perhaps it wasn't such a loss after all, practically speaking. ;)


I am quite interested in learning more about Trotskyism. (Of course the prospect of anyone other than Stalin leading the Soviet Union is always intriguing to me...)

But I really haven't read anything by Trotsky other than an introduction he wrote to an abridged version of Capital...

I recall reading Emma Goldman, however, portray Trotsky as somewhat of a monster for his actions at Kronstadt.http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/smilies2/trotski.gifhttp://www.revleft.com/vb/../images/smilies/eek.gifGoldman was an anarchist and is bound to have another view on the Kronstadt tragedy than most of us marxists. But as much as I feel the urge I won't go more indepth on this here, in order to not turn your intro thread into yet another Kronstadt debate. They tend to get.. infected. :(

I will, however, link you to Trotsky's own explanation of the events, from 1938:

Leon Trotsky: Hue and Cry Over Kronstadt (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1938/01/kronstadt.htm)

As for important works by Trotsky, I recommend starting with The Revolution Betrayed and the Transitional Programme. The Permanent Revolution is another crucial piece. These should be available both to read and to order online.

But since you have found your way here, perhaps the best way to start is asking us trotskyists here either by starting threads or by PM. In the Learning forum you will get all kinds of views and counterviews, in the Trotskyist group you can discuss with trotskyists only. Good luck!

PS: also click the link called 'Committee for a Workers International' in my signature, to see the website of one of the largest international trotskyist groupings. We also have a theoretical website, www.marxist.net (http://www.marxist.net), where you can read interesting articles by Trotsky and trotskyists.

[OHumanista]

Welcome comrade, ask if you need anything and take your time learning.
TheSentinel's suggestions are pretty good:thumbup1: (call me biased :D )

[Vapaus]

Quite interesting! My own parents also considered moving to Russia at one point.

I understand, it's a very interesting language. But as it indeed is almost impossible to learn for foreigners and thusly mostly is spoken in Finland perhaps it wasn't such a loss after all, practically speaking. ;)

Ah, well I've had to spend years studying dead languages that are spoken by no one, like Latin and Greek, even though I've developed quite a contempt for Greek and (especially) Roman society.

I was given an old copy of the Kalevala in Finnish, and just learning how to pronounce it was an accomplishment...J.R.R. Tolkien supposedly taught himself Finnish, so I guess it isn't impossible...:blink:



Goldman was an anarchist and is bound to have another view on the Kronstadt tragedy than most of us marxists. But as much as I feel the urge I won't go more indepth on this here, in order to not turn your intro thread into yet another Kronstadt debate. They tend to get.. infected. :(

I will, however, link you to Trotsky's own explanation of the events, from 1938:

Leon Trotsky: Hue and Cry Over KronstadtThanks, but...Oh, I guess that's one other thing I've already read by Trotsky...since the Goldman pamphlet I was thinking of ("Trotsky Protests Too Much") was written directly in response to that article. :blushing:

But anyway, I guess you are right, it would not be very productive to dwell on the issue of Kronstadt at this point.


As for important works by Trotsky, I recommend starting with The Revolution Betrayed and the Transitional Programme. The Permanent Revolution is another crucial piece. These should be available both to read and to order online.

But since you have found your way here, perhaps the best way to start is asking us trotskyists here either by starting threads or by PM. In the Learning forum you will get all kinds of views and counterviews, in the Trotskyist group you can discuss with trotskyists only. Good luck!

PS: also click the link called 'Committee for a Workers International' in my signature, to see the website of one of the largest international trotskyist groupings. We also have a theoretical website, where you can read interesting articles by Trotsky and trotskyists.Thank you for those, they're definitely on my reading list now...and I'll definitely be bookmarking your links! :)

And yeah, I would definitely like to delve deeper into this forum, although right now it is difficult being a noob, with all my posts on moderation, and I was unable to even respond to your post without editing out all the links just from your quoted post....

But I assume it's basically a guessing game as to how Trotsky would have actually been as leader of the C.C.C.P., in contrast to Stalin. I've taken classes on Soviet history, but I think my professor has a crush on Trotsky, since the classes on their struggle for power dwelled mostly on the fact that Trotsky was apparently so attractive, such a cosmopolitan fashionably-dressed war hero leading the Red Army, while Stalin was short and ugly, with a pock-marked face and a shriveled arm.

I do of course wonder whether Trotsky in power would have followed Stalin's practices with regard to dehumanizing gulags and murderous purges and all that?

Perhaps a somewhat silly and obscure question, but did Trotsky ever comment on Stalin's reactionary social policies, in particular his backward attitudes on LGBTQ issues, especially toward gay men, re-criminalizing homosexuality after it had already been legalized with the abolition of the Tsarist code?

With Marx and Engels themselves apparently being rather nasty homophobes and homosexuality being illegal in the Soviet Union from the time of Stalin until its collapse, I admit one reason I am drawn to anarchism is its emphasis on true sexual liberation, from the beginning.

In case this is the sort of place where homosexuality is considered 'bourgeois vice' and somehow fascist, I suppose I should just get out of the way here that I am in fact bisexual...the whole matter of 'queer liberation' is certainly important to me and my worldview...

[Sentinel]

I do of course wonder whether Trotsky in power would have followed Stalin's practices with regard to dehumanizing gulags and murderous purges and all that?


He was one of the most vocal critics of that stuff, so I doubt it. Of course power corrupts many good men, but from what I've read about Trotsky I conclude that he wasn't that kind of a person. But as you say it's a guessing game, therefore we should imo judge him by the actual politics he advocated and pursued when in power, and afterwards as well.



Perhaps a somewhat silly and obscure question, but did Trotsky ever comment on Stalin's reactionary social policies, in particular his backward attitudes on LGBTQ issues, especially toward gay men, re-criminalizing homosexuality after it had already been legalized with the abolition of the Tsarist code?


That is far from a silly question! On the contrary it's a very interesting one. I haven't read anything by him personally on the subject myself, so hopefully someone else can fill us in here. It would be extremely interesting.

That homosexuality was legalised and wasn't recriminalised under his and Lenin's leadership, and the fact that I've never heard anything homophobic by them, satisfies me personally -- even though it of course would be great, if they had spoken out more in that regard. This is a very important issue for me as well.

But after all, I may be a trotskyist, but not a worshiper of Trotsky as a person; the most important thing for me is that the major trotskyist orgs, including my own, today are very strongly pro-gay rights and criticise Stalin's decision to recriminalise it heavily. In Russia, the CWI is one of the most vocal gay rights orgs in contrast to the homophobia of many other so called communist parties and orgs over there.

A few years ago there was a pretty cool incident where in a TV-show watched by millions of people comrade Zhenya Otto of Russian CWI spontaneously entered the stage, when the liberal gay rights activist who was supposed to argue against a homophobic representant of Putin's ruling party was left out of arguments.

She was apparently so awesome that later that night the CWI:s Russian site crashed due to too many visitors. If you speak Russian, it might be worth checking out, it's on youtube. :)



I think my professor has a crush on Trotsky, since the classes on their struggle for power dwelled mostly on the fact that Trotsky was apparently so attractive, such a cosmopolitan fashionably-dressed war hero leading the Red Army, while Stalin was short and ugly, with a pock-marked face and a shriveled arm.



Haha! If politics didn't matter and we'd go by looks, I'd definitely be a Stalinist myself. He was far more handsome imo!



I was given an old copy of the Kalevala in Finnish, and just learning how to pronounce it was an accomplishment


Don't worry. Not even I can read that awful crap despite giving it a serious try, and it's my first language after all. :lol:

Finally, as for Tolkien, I don't think any human being can be compared to him when it comes to languages..

The guy even invented a few new ones on his own!

[Positivist]

Welcome friend! I wouldn't worry too much about labeling yourself with an exclusive ism and rather I'd recommend you draw from all socialist traditions to develop your views! Furthermore it is important to remember that Trotsky was a Marxist so you may benefit from reading Marx prior to Trotsky.

[Igor]

Finnish isn't that hard really, it just requires some extra work because it's not really related to any languages you're likely to know. The complex grammar is compensated pretty well with really easy pronunciation.

also welcome